Ted,
I hope you're acknowledging what your ex-clientele are saying. The Tesla line may have been introduced in 2006, but someone who bought a Powercell 10SE Mk II or Apex LE last year may not be too happy to know that they can get the Mk III or Element CTS if they waited a few months. Are they getting a 90% trade in credit for the new product?
More and more of us are waiting on the sidelines for someone else to stick their neck out and "take one for the team". I don't have to spell out what happens when nobody is willing to take the hit buying full retail anymore.
I'm not telling you how to run your business, but take it as some constructive criticism from someone who has a full SR loom but going to look for used deals from now on. |
Sabai,
I totally agree with your thoughts. I believe there is (was?) a loyal SR following but if the company doesn't appear to reciprocate that loyalty back to their core clients, then they may go the way of companies like Virtual Dynamics. I'm not in the business, but anyone who's been in the hobby even a few years know that that the volume of existing core client base for any brand far outweighs any new clientele in this very niche market.
A 70% trade in on an upgrade to a product that is at least twice as much as the original is a slap in the face for the most loyal clients and high rollers. So if you are already at the top of the line, you can't get a deal on upgrading to the newest product, but if you are a newer client or lower down the ladder, you get more perks. That doesn't seem right in light of the fact that many other competitors offer up to 100% trade in value when you upgrade to the latest higher product. SR is really doing nothing to keep their best clients happy. We all know how much the mark up is on the materials cost of cable so it's not like SR is going to actually lose money by giving a more generous upgrade policy that rewards the most loyal core group.
In any case, it's a shame that the aggressive marketing is turning off existing clients because they do make good products that work. |
Jwpstayman - I agree with your points that the new products are improvements over the previous lines. I didn't mean to stir the pot, but only taking the philosophical stance that it's probably a better marketing strategy in the long run to keep your best customers happy and it appears that Glory had dropped some serious coin on SR products in the past.
For example, if I ran a casino, I would comp the high rollers executive suites and drinks to keep them coming back. The Passport Protection program offers little unless you got a old SR cable from the 90s but you're SOL if you got the last iteration of the Powercell 10. Yeah, most could be happy with the previous best product, but as a business owner, why would I want to turn away Mr. Compusive Upgrader who's willing to pay a REASONABLE amount to get the latest? It would be win/win to keep the client happy and lose/lose for him to finally walk away pissed because paying full price for the THIRD or FOURTH time in as many years is finally too much to keep up. As a business owner, I would never allow my best clients to be pissed off in a public forum after spending their hard earned cash on my products. |
Sabai,
My response to your comment:
"A lot of SR's customers are well-heeled folks to whom money comes easily. I mean, who can afford to shell out 5 or 10 grand with each product upgrade unless there is big money in the picture. Others, like me, have to make it the old fashioned way. We have to earn it slowwwwly. At some point new products become out of reach. One's desire for better sound has to be tempered with the realism that there are priorities in life and the musical buck has to stop somewhere."
I would respectfullybeg to differ. I don't want to speculate, but IMHO, SR is a only an "upper mid end" player with a core group of followers for the technology but likely going to feel the squeeze from both the "value players" like the Morrows and Anti-Cables, and the true luxury cables that the well heeled folk flock to (Nordost Odin, Jorma, Zensati, Siltech). I don't think SR has that kind of brand clout. It is not particularly attractive (by luxury cable standards) and the MPC hassle and mess makes it a challenge for the aethetically conscious. I am in the same boat as you are, saving my pennies the hard way. I will also say that if I were financially well heeled, I would be trying out the aforementioned brands. I would rather invest in truly EXPENSIVE cable products rather than continually throw away money on highly DEPRECIABLE cable products.
I am not speaking out of bitterness (although reading some of the comments on this thread, there is plenty of that to go around). I purchased most of my SR gear used and I don't need the latest and greatest. I have a Powercell 4 which more than suffices for my simple system setup. I'd like to see the company stick around but I simply cannot support a business that only markets their R&D "breakthrough" (are their really 4 Powercell 10 breakthroughs in 3 years that need to be formally named?). Some companies just save up the improvements over a 3 to 5 year R&D period for a product that significantly improves on the predecessor and worth investing full price into. Another better way to sustain brand loyalty is to offer factory upgrades at a reasonable charge (say $500 for a Powercell 10). But giving the owner no options but to eat a 50% loss every year is probably not the best way to retain customer loyalty.
Secretly, I'm hoping the high rollers are ready to ditch their Element cables at half price sooner rather than later... |
Ok, I'm done chewing out SR's marketing so I'll move on. The Cable Co is an excellent retailer to get in touch with to demo cables in your own system before you buy, which is a very useful resource.
Fplanner2010, I agree that you actually have to hear cables in your own system to know how they will sound. So far my "hunches" were mostly wrong.
I am running an Apex IC from my DAC to the integrated amp. I demoed an Element Tungsten and it produced a much deeper, wider soundstange than the Apex with slightly better imaging as well. I was extremely skeptical about Tungsten as a conductor material since it's inherently a far worse conductor than silver or copper, and it's not even popular for light bulbs anymore. I am a loss to explain how it could possibly sound good for audio. It did fall a bit short in harmonic richness and tonal density. The Apex also sounded a bit more organic overall. I recently (in the last 2 days) took delivery of an Element Copper IC second hand and it doesn't sound anything like the Tungsten in my system. I will give it a bit more run time but so far I'm not particularly impressed and soundstage is flatter and lacks the transparency and musicality of the Apex. While I would rank the Tungsten as overall a bit better than the Apex, I would say that in my system, the Copper which I expected to be close to the Apex has so far been disappointing. Apart from the bass extension and definition which matches the Apex, it seems to be quite a bit inferior in all other areas, and does not possess the overall refinement, IMO. I hope that letting it run for a few more days will help but so far the Apex is better in my system. I'm running Precision Ref speaker cables with Cells. |
DaveB,
Sorry but no offence, but looking at the level of your system components, I have to question how much the cable matters. Of course the MIT cables sound "predictable" and "consistent" because your system is probably not resolving enough to hear much difference. Could it be that the MIT is acting as a tone control to smooth out your component's deficiencies? Also, the way you hard sell MIT cable research theory like a sales rep, YOU are the one who sounds like a cult follower trying spread the MIT religion. I certainly don't troll around the MIT forum telling MIT owners I think those ridiculous boxes of complicated networks adds all kind of colorations directly into the signal path. How many articulation poles does one need to reach audio nirvana? Why ARE you here, DaveB?
I didn't really hear all that much difference in cable until I moved to a EMM Labs/Vitus combo. Frankly, I don't give a fig about any scientific mumbo jumbo that goes into cables, nor the BS marketing, even SR's overblown marketing with Quantum Tunneling, etc. All I know is that SR does make a positive difference to my musical enjoyment, and more than any other cable brand I've tried, placebo effect or not. This actually bugs the hell out of me because I wish cable didn't sound different and I can save a bunch of cash. I would just hook everything up with Radio Shack and laugh at the fools getting swindled by snake oil products.
Glory: we know your position and I tend to agree, but I think the line's getting a bit old... |
DaveB: Sorry, I didn't mean to diss your equipment or your opinion and I was too strong in my delivery. I am also not dissing MIT cables per se since I've never heard it so cannot comment. What set me off is that you were dropping words such as "cable voodoo" in reference to SR's technology whereas MIT is pure "science and music" and SR owners were somehow "cult followers" implying MIT owners are somehow above that. My point is to most "flat earth" music lovers, any boutique cable is voodoo and the science is that the human ear can't possibly tell the difference between lamp cord and $20K speaker cable. All I'm asking is to show a little respect and agree to disagree with those who still enjoy SR cable in their system. I come here to find some constructive exchange on SR cable experiences, but see mostly mud slinging from ex-SR cable owners on SR's technology, marketing or both. Yeah, I get it; you tried it, didn't like it and moved on. I'm not ready to dump my entire SR loom, so look forward to posts from currently happy SR owners who has something positive to contribute. |
Antonkk: If you are looking for the best sound, the new Element cables are in my experience (and so far, I've only tried the interconnects), quite noticably more dynamic and detailed and throw a larger, more layered soundstage. The Tungsten in particular rachets up the "being there" sensation a few notches from even the Tesla Apex. I recently acquired the Copper and after a few more days of burning in (and now I realize that the "used" cables I got were essentially brand new) transformed quite significantly over the first 50 hours. The mids and highs in particularly fleshed out quite significantly. Overall, I think the Copper is nearly the equal of Tesla Apex in the mids and highs, with a slightly better soundstage and much more defined bass and overall better PRAT. I promptly sold the Apex. The Apex retailed for triple the Copper and almost double the Tungsten so it's quite the accomplishment.
If you don't mind eating 40% depreciation in the first year buying the Element new, then you'll be happy with it. Or be even happier if you can find it second hand in the near future. |
Bacardi, I would say that the Element Copper would be a huge upgrade over Tesla Accelerator for the money in a 5 channel system, especially the bass. |
