more than likely
Synergestic Research: SCAM
Well, I just sat down to a demo of several Synergistic Research products including the Black Box room bass resonators, their new line conditioner, their active Tranquility Base, little treble resonators and the Atmosphere room acoustics tuner.
Total scam. Never once did they just play a track while moving things around. It was always a few seconds of a track followed by a 30 seconds of so of moving stuff, etc, then another maybe 30 seconds of sound. They'd start a track and then stop it right as some instruments came in, do the change, and then continue playing where it left off. The guy doing the demo was asked twice if he could do a live a/b and he'd give an excuse about how it takes a little time for system to charge or some bs like that and the transition process would mask the differences. Absolute con BS they are DEAD to me.
Also? I could hear JACK SQUAT changes in the demo. A few people around me would comment on the changes but I could hear nothing -- at least as best I could manage with the small clips and pauses in between changes. I really tried, but I could hear nothing.
Here, I took a video of a part of the demo. I'll post it when I have a chance.
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I bought the Synergistic dots at Axpona 2022. They work. Weirdest tweak I‘ve encountered in audio. I made the mistake of pulling one off of my USB cable going into the DAC once while the music was playing. System made a pop sound and the music stopped. Thought I had broken something but I hit play and the music started again. Don‘t touch the dots unless the system is muted. I don‘t use them now except for two that I put on my two dedicated circuit breakers. They don‘t seem as effective that far away from the equipment. I no longer need them but how would I ever sell “dots“? | |
+1 I my case: SR interconnects, between tonearm and Phono stage, then: Pre and Main monoblock amps, Their power cords from wall to Stealth XXX Purifier and wall to Subwoofer amp. All the MPCs: upgraded by Michael Spallone. NONE for sale! The rest of my interconnects (sources') are Kimber Selects (1030 and 1130), which play very nicely with the SRs. All other power cables are Zu Mothers. Fuses are from SR and Hi-Fi Tuning. Big Silver Oval speaker cable. Nothing very expensive! I DO appreciate companies that allow a person 30 days to decide whether they like their products or not. Synergistic has been offering that trial period, for some forty years now (since the Eighties). A rewind:
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@steakster: I purchased the SR router & switch from the largest SR dealer in the world; Scott Walker Audio. Included in the shipment was a round antenna to be ceiling or wall mounted along with a SR ethernet cable for connection to the router. I was guided for installation by Josh Doyle at Scott's Texas store. There was immediately a SR channel on our laptop's wifi settings that had to be activated for connectivity. If anyone knows how it works it surely should be them. All I know is that our Roon connectivity problems, with them removed, are now gone. I'm glad yours is working well for you. I am a fervent advocate of SR products & cables (have over $100,000 in their power cables & interconnects; plus another $70-80,000 in their components); but the router & switch didn't do it for us. | |
SR’s router doesn’t have antennae. It doesn’t have WiFi. - - - - A technical note excepted from SR’s router page.
Perhaps, the problem was with the component providing the access point. Or the SSID wasn’t configured correctly. Or a WiFi router was used, not an access point. Over the years, I've purchased several SR products from Scott Walker, He and his sales team are usually very thorough with their customer support for equipment set-up and usage. Ever since I've converted over to SR cabling, the SQ of my system has improved signficantly. | |
To all of the Synergistic Research naysayers & haters out there, after much defense of Synergistic Research products, and truly enjoying their performance in our audio system, I finally have several of their products that I would not recommend; and that do not work well for us in our system. Their router & switch combination. Both are deceptively attractively priced but after the required cables and antenna, are quite expensive (the router with cables & antenna cost us $6,900; and the switch another $3000). After receiving these, I saw little value in their performance and intended to return them to Scott Walker Audio but Josh Doyle insisted that we give them more time. Well, it's now six months and they add virtually nothing; in fact, the music sounds better with them removed. The other issue we had with these was that we had frequent dropouts from Roon with them in place. Roon would not respond to our prompts for a desired tune and would require a re-boot of our Antipodes streamer to reconnect. I tried different locations of the Synergistic router and its antenna; tried angling them to other positions, to no avail. These frustrating interruptions to our service occurred every time we had our system playing. Now that we have removed them from our system, the problems are gone. We'd mistakenly thought the problem was with Roon but the problems were obviously due to the Synergistic Research router & switch. BTW, Josh & Scott Walker now refuse to take them back, in any way, even as used items at a reduced price. If they suspect there is a defect with these, they are right down the road from Synergistic Research and can easily have them checked out. But... they say they have too many in stock. Before anyone else gets stung with these items, you've been warned. | |
Despite the video lack of quality, I clearly heard the differences in the Tranquility base on and then off. So much better with it on. I didn't have time to hear the rest. As for Class D amps, I've heard several recently that were excellent, musical and powerful, selling for $3K to $8K (I think Prana Audio comes to mind). I prefer my big, monoblock tube amps but Class D can be made to sound musically interesting and involving. I try not to listen to amps under $1K so the author's cheap (and supposedly terrible sounding) Class D amps haven't been auditioned by me. | |
Geoff, regardless of the SR tweaks I have auditioned and returned, I have never lost my senses to the degree that would motivate me to try a single one of your idiotic tweaks. Your stuff takes the cake for getting audio-fools to part with their cash for no good reason, except their penchant for self-deception. Folks, use your good sense. Still, I will applaud SR for their money-back return policy and if you hear the difference, then spend away. But remember that there are lots of folks preying on your audio-anxiety who are keen to take your money for tweaks of a "snake oil" nature. Cheers. | |
jandewitt, What was the equipment? Electronics and Speakers? I am sure cabling was appropriate. Tube or solid state? TT or digital. Small room ; near field listening? Imaging can be wide and tall; Depth of soundstage and images in the stage? Thanks for taking time to respond. Always interested when someone finds gear and room especially at a Show that they find exceptional. Regards | |
@ nkonor Sure, the sound was sweet, complete, balanced, detailed, dynamic engaging. The highs were all there and never harsh. The lows were all there without booming around in the small demo room. It was not the 'small, pinpointed' stereo imaging as the audiophiles of old liked, but all was big and wide enough. The overall result was that you could listen to the music because the equipment was not interfering with the sound. I hope that made some sense. I am not a reviewer. Reminder: I did not say this was because of SR. Nor did I say this would not be possible without SR stuff. My main point is that one of THE BEST sounding rooms on the show (in my humble opinion that is, of course) was treated extensively with SR products (and this is a BIG show!). So this was either just for commercial reasons or the creators of this wonderful sound really thought SR had something to offer them. Fun fact: They were NOT selling SR products. With regards | |
Wow! You don't even need to read past the OP's opening statements to see what coming. I focused listening to three instruments in SRV's tune.Tone/dynamics of the guitar, the crack of the drumstick against the snare rim and bass. Umm... nothing. Maybe the vocals were noticeable, but the song is cut before SRV starts singing. If there is any change in presentation, I still should be able to hear it the Ipad speaker. Whetever difference there is, very subtle. I put my on my guitar player ears for the comparison. Heard no difference in the depth of reverb or decay in the crack of the drumstick, guitar and bass sound the same. I then played my own period LP copy on my table. Thanks to the Ipad, my under 20k retail system sounds superior to that obvious nice/pricey rig. My system does have ridiculous cabling and PS Audio regen. Let the OP hear what he hears and report his findings and everyone else can buy SR products. | |
Whitestix I have tried a boatload of their stuff as I am an inveterate audio tweaker, which has included their foolish and pricey "room dots" and goofy expensive fuses. Are you referring to SR room dots or Acoustic Revive room dots? Or maybe you're thinking of Marigo room dots. Or the Franck Tchang Sugar Cubes or something else. PWB Magnadiscs perhaps. Maybe Blue Meanies. You know, as an inveterate audio tweaker. | |
I think that calling SR a scam and a con tells more about the writer of the OP than is does about SR. madavid0 may not have heard a difference but does that mean his opinion is automatically upgraded to universal truth that will apply to the listening experience of everyone? But considering the switching shenanigans he reported on, these may be valid observations. | |
Madavid0. You stepped into it on this forum calling BS on SR "tweaks". I have tried a boatload of their stuff as I am an inveterate audio tweaker, which has included their foolish and pricey "room dots" and goofy expensive fuses. If Geoff Kait chimes in on the discussion, you can expect any notion of sensible discussion to go out the window as he peddles the most foolish audio tweaks imaginable. I encourage folks to try the SR tweaks to see if they have efficacy in their system and clearly many do find them useful. They do have a 100% money-back return policy. However, don't be swayed by the devotees on this and other forums who seem to leave good sense behind when they evaluate their tweaks. I suspect your ears and pocketbook are serving you well in the conclusion you reached with the SR products you heard. There are a ton of worthy tweaks, including better cabling and inexpensive component isolation devices that will improve the sound of your system far more than the SR gear. Cheers and thank you for your honest post. | |
jandewitt, Can you describe what was so amazing about the system and room at Munich? I have been to audio shows and have heard amazing systems and rooms without any SR products. I am amazed at the sound on my system and in my room. I do Not have any SR products including fuses. I do treat my room with diffusers and tube traps. My Pass amps have thermal magnetic breakers; no fuses needed. At last years Axpona; The CAT / Marten room/system was amazing; No room treatment or SR products. Every record played by Mr Van de Hul was 3D you are here palpable.Only Mr Valin posted a minor quibble in TAS. Was that room Best of Show? What was the room/equipment? Please expand on what was amazing. Thanks, I would appreciate your extra effort. nkonor | |
I just came back from the high end show in Munich (Germany). One of the best sounding rooms was completely treated with all the SR gadgets. The sound was amazing. The equipment was also amazing and I can't say what was responsible for what of course (it was not an SR demo), but the end result was absolutely amazing. | |
I have a lot of SR products in my audio system.
Galileo UEF interconnects and speaker cables, SR level 3 power cables, USB and SE cables, 5 Tranquility bases, the SR Acoustic Art system room treatment (1 Vibratron and 2 Basic 5 packs) , FEQ and HFT, SR transporter, and two SR MK3 power cells. I know that’s a lot of Synergistic Research gear, but it does give me a perspective in this discussion. These devices are expensive and there may not be any provable science to support them – but they really do work. I’ve experimented by disconnected every SR device over and over again - one at a time and several together - to experience the difference in my room. It’s astounding. How or why they work – it’s Voodoo! | |
I don't care for the fact that the OP has been slamming SR in what is a very slanderous allegation, BUT, after watching the video, I must agree with him on the way the demo was performed. At the beginning while Stevie Ray Vaughn was being played, the rep stopped the music completely to turn the Tranquility bases off and on for comparison sake. Why?? These are not part of the audio chain(to my knowledge), so no risk of damage. Why not just turn them on and off while the music was playing for a realistic A/B comparison. I think the demo was flawed, but not necessarily the products themselves. I have no SR products myself, but am curious what others that do think of the SR line. I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but it seems to be relevant to the conversation at hand. | |
You're a complete idiot! I have a lot of the Synergistic Research products and the differences are amazing! You must have cotton in your ears if you hear nothing! I get so tired of people complaing that something is a scam! You obviously are just an obnoxious person who keeps trying to get attention! I have three friends who have all bought the Synergistic Research products after hearing my system. I must be scamming them into thinking there's a difference in what they heard! I say it again, you're a complete idiot! | |
I too question their ethics buying a whole loom of cables with interchanables Tones with their bullets it gets better , their active shield has a wall watt If my cables were not expensive enough they sell an upgrade $400 each just better resistors on a circuit board and a few other $ 3.00 goodies. We took an older one a part ,what a scam i had 12 connections that would be a additional $4800 . For the price they charge this little nodded wall wsrt without question should come stock with them .Element cables , sold no more Synergistic Active cables no better then a well designed cable. | |
Well, for one thing demos at the shows are a pig in a poke. in fact, most systems at shows sound very generic and unconvincing IMHO. There are many reasons for this. So there’s no reason to think any tweak demo would necessarily be convincing. It’s likie any test that is subject to the whims of the system and time limitations that shows present. If someone complain he didn’t hear tweak X it certainly doesn’t mean it’s a scam, anymore than ANY test. Follow? In fact, I’ve lobbied for a long time for static displays for the simple reason getting audio manufacturers to agree to break in their products prior to showtime is almost impossible. Everybody’s got to show off his brand new shiny little gadget. Fine, have a static display! Hel-loo! | |
Let me guess, you think power cords are a scam too, and can't hear the difference between a basic upgraded power cord and a serious one, am I right? Sorry, incorrect. I've auditioned and compared various interconnects and power cables. Sometimes the difference is large, sometimes it's mild, and once I could tell no difference. Possibly SR cables are great, I've never compared them. I'm talking about their various tweak products and their line conditioner. The SR was top dollar -- Magico + VAC and some high end source. If I could hear any difference with any system it should be that one. | |
Let me guess, you think power cords are a scam too, and can't hear the difference between a basic upgraded power cord and a serious one, am I right? Because your system does not have the resolution to hear the zones of improvement does not mean they don't make huge differences in another system that has better interconnects and speaker wires. Your money will be better spent upgrading the other wires and power cords. | |
I listened to that video and do think I heard a difference- for the better. I do not own any SR products, have never heard any, and was not expecting to hear any difference. What I heard was a reduction in noise or distortion that is in the music itself; not in the background. It sounded more natural, easier on the ears especially during the dynamic swings. The echo sounded more real too. I would not call it a huge difference but if I had the money I would try it in the context of my own system. As far as the demonstration itself, it seems like it could have been done differently and would have been very interesting to hear instantaneous A-B rather than the way it was done with the delay in between. | |
Is it your religion to be bamboozled? I've heard differences between power cables and interconnects so obvious I didn't even need to A/B them back to back. Possibly the SR cables in the demo were fabulous and contributed to the wonderful sound of the room. I'm just commenting on the "tweak" demos. Some of the devices seemed more likely to work than others (the little metal resonators on the speakers), but try as I might I could hear nothing. There is NO legitimate reason why they couldn't just turn the Atmosphere "room acoustics controller" on and off, or switch between settings on the fly. The excuse offered, as heard on the video, is that because it takes a "long time" for the change to be effected it will happen without you being able to tell the difference!!!! I didn't say that, THEY did. When you test gear at home -- trying between different interconnects for example -- do you listen to 30 seconds of music, swap cables, talk about what you're doing during the swap, then continue listening to the track where you left off for another 30 seconds? Do you pick times just as new instruments come in to make the swap? And so on. What's happening in that demo is that they are obviously abusing the audio memory effect to flim-flam listeners. | |
The original poster is obviously a pin head troll I also attended axpona and attended the sr demo twice some of the improvements were greater than others while I didn't question others in the room everyone seemed to enjoy what they heard. Again to the op your thoughts and opinions do not mean a thing. So go back to your parents basement and turn off your laptop. | |
Any lawyers here? Has the OP libeled Synergistic? I have no relation to the company so it’s not like I have any stake in it, but it’s one thing to say someone didn’t hear a benefit from a product, and another to state that a company is out to defraud people. Many years ago I heard Synergistic demo of active shielding and there was a clear benefit. | |
You are absolutely full of it. You heard nothing. I was there, front row center right beside someone else (the European-sounding guy to the left). I didn't listen to it through a cell phone (which does NO justice to the actual quality of this system which was very impressive). I tried hard to keep the sound details in my head during transitions. I heard no changes. I even tried to hear the things some of the other listeners claimed they heard -- nothing. Note the lame excuse as to why he can't do live switching. During a later part of the demo in which I didn't record, he was asked AGAIN to do a live switch, and that time his explanation (paraphrasing): "Cells have to charge/discharge, I do it this way because I mean you to be able to hear the differences". Another demo was the Black Box, that little box sitting on the floor I show near the start of the video. The idea is, it has a resonator inside that defeats bass frequency standing waves. How much energy is stored in a standing wave? A tiny fraction of a second or whatever?? Why couldn't he just MOVE the damn box WHILE the music was playing? They even brought in as second box to show the effects of more than one -- that box was at the rear of the room near the door...couldn't they have just moved the box in and out of the door while playing music live?? Just complete manipulative scam artist BS trash. Don't get suckered in by it. | |
Well considering its a video shot on a cell phone and not the best quality I definitely heard some differences. Particularly with the Atmosphere and less so with the Tranquility Bases but it still did sound better. And the changeovers were very quick just a couple of seconds in each case. I'm not sure how the Atmosphere works exactly but taking a couple of seconds to take effect doesn't sound reasonable. Seemed like a pretty solid demo to me and people there seemed to be hearing changes. | |
