Step Up Transformers….Are they Worth the Trouble?

You can buy SUT with a phase equalizer option.

@lalitk 

Can you give me an example.

Are you sure you are not talking about running a zoebel network as recommended by Jensen - this is designed to minimise ringing and distortion inherent in the transformer.

@dover 

Here you go! 
https://www.fonolab.com/veliferi

Update: After few sleepless nights, I ordered the Etsuro Urushi Bordeaux cart. I will be comparing Bordeaux with Fuuga. Thanks to @jazdoc for getting me more the hump. 

Staying up all night doesn’t ameliorate the crap shoot nature of buying a new cartridge.

@lewm 

I hear you :-)

@mijostyn For the Record, not one copy / paste presented in my last post had anything to do with the individual suggested by yourself as the one being identified.

On a completely different note, a very recent Health Issue that is very luckily discovered and is now undergoing the earliest treatment.

Has a Prognosis attached, that strongly suggests my forum activities are much better for my health, if exchanged for a use of available time, that is spent being more mobile and participating in light activities for the next upcoming months.

I am happy to initiate this new approach when convalescing, and put more time and intentions into my Grandchildren, Nature Photography and Recording Sound from the Natural Environment. These are the only real thing I can do, to help teach the G'children things that are a concern, as well as show how modern methods being adopted by Humans are really impacting on Local Flora - Fauna. This is part of a Country Wide initiative, to help Map locations that are showing where regenerative conservation action can be diverted to.   

I will be avoiding posting on this or other forums for the foreseeable future, maybe only using the forums I use, to keep the contacts I have communicated with, informed, enabling myself to complete a few outstanding visits to the homes of others when lengthy travel is able to be carried out by myself with no health concerns attached. 

  

@lalitk  : the first statement in your link by the manufacturer is:

 

" the EQVES line has become a successful example of devices with which you can color your analog system. "

If that " color " is what you want, that's it.

 

Btw,  do you know why Excel did not choosed ruby material in the cantilevers in its own cartridges been the manufacturer of Etsuro and instead used BORON material?.  Very simple ruby has not the superlative characteristic as boron or diamond in catilevers and Etsuro choosed ruby, ??? ? ! !  I mentioned these twice in other threads. Good luck with.

 

R.

Mulveling, I was surprised to read that the weight of the core of a SUT could per se be a positive virtue (the idea being more is better).  I say this because it is my understanding that an air core is potentially lowest in distortion, when it comes to inductors, and a transformer is basically two inductors placed side by side.  I am no expert on transformers, but I wonder what others with more knowledge might say. The problem with an air core is loss of efficiency, so you need more turns of wire in the coil for a given effect.

@pindac Good luck to you Sir in all your endeavors. 

@rauliruegas I know your preference for Boron and diamond cantilevers and I own both types of cantilever along with a cactus spine one. On a lark I purchased two Shure V15V bodies which were sold originally with MR styluses. Jico makes several stylus assemblies for this cartridge. Their most expensive is a Gyger S style stylus with a tapered ruby cantilever. They also offer the same stylus with a Boron cantilever for almost $200 less. The original cantilever was beryllium which due to its carcinogenic nature is no longer available. What do you think? 

@pindac Stay Healthy and enjoy Life! 

IMO, it’s just silly to pre-judge a cartridge on the basis of the material used to make its cantilever. The idea of ranking cartridges based on the nature of the parts per se was already discussed at length. I know that no one went away with a changed view of the subject, but nevertheless, it’s been done for good or ill. For only one example, I consider the Ortofon MC2000 to be one of the greatest LOMC cartridges ever made, not THE best, but certainly in the top rank. And yet it has a lowly aluminum cantilever. By the same token, many superb cartridges have ruby cantilevers. Fact is, these days most new cartridges are pretty darn good, and a given isolated user on a given day in a given mood might love any of them. Once you’ve spent the money, that alone predisposes you to a certain affection for the thing you bought. By the way, there is such a teeny tiny amount of beryllium in a beryllium cantilever, and since we don't eat them or shred them into our local environments, I find it hard to believe that the toxicity of beryllium is the whole reason we don't have cartridges with beryllium cantilevers any longer offered.

Look after yourself, pindac. Hope all your treatment is successful.

@pindac : very best wishes to you.

“the EQVES line has become a successful example of devices with which you can color your analog system. "

If that " color " is what you want, that’s it

Btw, do you know why Excel did not choosed ruby material in the cantilevers in its own cartridges been the manufacturer of Etsuro and instead used BORON material?. Very simple ruby has not the superlative characteristic as boron or diamond in catilevers and Etsuro choosed ruby, ??? ? ! ! I mentioned these twice in other threads. Good luck with.”

@rauliruegas

I must say, your posts here and elsewhere adds nothing but mass confusion. As evident from many of your posts, you’re quick to criticize other posters choices and manufacturer design philosophy. This kind of behavior is a classic example of a narcissistic personality.

This is a shared learning environment, we should always respect the views of other participants even if you don’t agree with them. Moving forward, If you cannot respect others opinion and choices, all I can ask and hope for some civility in your posts.

As far as your negative comments about Etsuro,

Cartridges manufacturer uses different materials for cantilevers depending on the specific design and intended performance characteristics of the cartridge. The choice between ruby, boron, or diamond as cantilever materials is not solely based on the “superlative” qualities of one material over another but rather on how each material’s properties align with the design goals for the cartridge.

The choice of cantilever material is a balancing act between performance, cost, and the desired sound signature. While boron may offer technical superiority in some aspects, ruby provides a unique character that appeals to certain listeners and aligns with the luxury branding of products like those from Etsuro.

@lalitk 

Back from my two-day trip.  Before doing anything else I tried different ground scheme vs my prior SUT.  Added ground between phono stage and SUT (in addition to tonearm and SUT).  Hum pretty much gone!  (consistent with @mulveling prediction). Sound is remarkable - intuition that Rothwell wasn’t fully showcasing the Koetsu was correct (duh, I know).  Consistent with my first impression, way more dynamic, but still lush, which is cool combo.  

Still in conversation with dealer whether I should change setting to lower ratio - seems like manufacturer is not convinced that’s the right move.  Will see….

@lalitk I know Raul really well. His English is not so hot and at times he comes across as a bit odd. He is anything but narcissistic and his knowledge of cartridges is unsurpassed. 

I for one do not like equipment editorializing. I want to know exactly what is on the record and nothing else. On the very best systems colored equipment always shows itself as flawed. Sometimes these flaws can be corrected, most of the time not. Very few cartridges are perfect so we are stuck choosing our poison especially when we are spending less than $6000. 

I have had SUTs and both SS and tube phono stages. IMHO, and I am sure @rauliruegas will agree. The best SS phono stages are the most uncolored and quiet of the lot. Check out units from Sutherland, Channel D, CH Precision and Pass labs. 

People are entitled to listen to whatever they want, but in my experience when presented with an accurate system capable of realistic levels without distortion and bass to match, all are in awe. 

@mijostyn

I prefer not to expend my energy or time on Raul posts. I already said my peace!

Back to matter on hand, I wholeheartedly agree with your point and preference for accuracy and neutrality in audio equipments. And cartridges and phono stages are not any different, ideally your entire signal chain should be as neutral as possible.

My rule of thumb, if a specific audio component cannot convey music with its natural emotions, then it failed in its purpose and gotta go.

Your list of recommended brands—Sutherland, Channel D, CH Precision, and Pass Labs—reflects your fine taste and commitment to high-quality, precise audio reproduction. I am not averse to trying a SS phono and I may eventually end up there. A tube phono been on my mind so this exercise will put rest my curiosity and give me a better understanding on what I liked or didn’t like vs a SS phono.

For me, next few months is going to be all about finding that perfect balanced sound with least bit of coloration. Musicality is a constant in my choice of audio gear and so far I have been very pleased with the results.

@lalitk I am way in on musicality, but it should rest with the music. 

@mijostyn 

Exactly! Musicality should be inherent in the music itself, rather than introduced or altered by our choice of gear. We may choose a different path but the end goal is to end up with a system that faithfully reproduces the original recording, allowing the music to speak for itself without any additional influence from the components. 

@mdalton 

Glad to hear hum is gone, It sounds like you're quite pleased with the improvements. Does lowering the ratio means sending the HM-7 back to Swissoner?

Dear @mijostyn : I owned that Shure V15 and other Shure models and I know very well ( by first hand experiences. ) Jico SAS developments and owned the normal SAS, the Boron and the Ruby/sapphire SAS.

I remember in those times that in other than the long MM thread we have a dialogue about ad the gentleman that posted the first time about the SAS Ruby was extremely disappointed by its quality performance against the SAS Boron and I was in agrenment with him Jco SAS Ruby was almost a trash. I return it to JICO and they accepted the cacelation in change of JICO SAS Boron for other cartridge.

You know very well Lyra designer and he never used ruby cantilevers in his cartridges but boron and boron with deposited diamond as in your Atlas Lambda SL.

There are very good reasons ( later in my next post ) why boron and diamond are true cartridge References, ruby is out of question.

 

R.

@lalitk 

nope.  have gotten instructions, and pretty easy to change. May wait until it’s burned in a bit before I experiment.

“May wait until it’s burned in a bit before I experiment.”
Good plan! 

Dear @lalitk : " we should always respect the views of other participants even if you don’t agree with them. "

 

Please show me 4-5 posts where I did not respect the views of any other participant. The REAL ISSUE ( for me ) is not to agree or not or convice or not to any one:

My posts in this thread are almost all ALERTS/WARNINGS not only to the gentlemans in this thread but for all who read the thread and is not fear for them not to have or analize a different " true " based in first hand experiences and with all those facts posted in almost each post by me when no one in this thread not only just did not post any fact that be the foundation on his or their posts or posted that I’m just wrong. So, where is or are my disrespect to other gentlemans.

I think that only " dover " really has the knowledge levels about and first hand experiences on the issue just like me.

 

 

"

The choice between ruby, boron, or diamond as cantilever materials is not solely based on the “superlative” qualities of one material over another but rather on how each material’s properties align with the design goals for the cartridge.

The choice of cantilever material is a balancing act between performance, cost, and the desired sound signature ".

 

@lalitk , next are statements from one of the few and the bigger more experimented manufacturer of cantilever/stylus tip in the world:

 

"

The stylus cantilever of a record cartridge, like the stylus itself, is an important part of the vibration system and necessary in order to transmit the vibrations accurately from the record to the stylus.

A variety of materials such as aluminum, sapphire, beryllium, diamond and boron are used to make stylus cantilevers of different shapes and dimensions. The lighter and stiffer the material, the better and more accurately the stylus cantilever can transmit vibration.

 

 

Diamond, the hardest material on earth, is possibly the best material for use in audio equipment. It does not easily deform when force is applied, and the sound transmission speed is overwhelmingly faster than other materials. When playing a record, the stylus tip/cantilever traces the groove with great precision

 

 

Boron Rod

Large elastic modulus, high specific rigidity, and speedy sound transmission. The tip is fixed with adhesive due to fragility and limits in processability. Cost performance is outstanding. """

 

and here some material number characteristics:

 

MOHS Hardness:

- diamond 10 and Boron the next down step with 9.3

 

-Young’s Modulus:

- diamond 1210, boron 690 and ruby/sapphire 372 Btw, berylium 287

 

Density p:

-boron 2.41 vs 4.0 in ruby/sapphire.

 

Sound speed:

 

- diamond 18,000, boron 16,500 ruby 11,200.

 

Enough in numbers that are what it counts in the overall cartridge quality performance.

 

My first cartridge with Ruby cantilever was the Dynavector Karat 23 R ( very short cantilever. ) I owned and bougth because was a " novelty " and because my ignorance knowledge level but too because Dynavector manufactured his even today fenomenal diamond cantilever 13D and maybe for the same reason other manufacturers choosed ruby as cantilever material.

Around those years Audio Technica designed his first diamond cantilever cartridge in its MC 1000 that I owned and almost at the same time AT designed its ruby cantilever AT 37 that I owned too. Then ADC Astrion ( owned ), Grace ruby I owned ), Highphonic MC R5, Supex 1100R ( I owned too. ). Still down there the ignorance issue from my part.

Other were Sao Win, BM Ruby and Ortofon Jubilee, all these already sold

I had the opportunity to compare same cartridge motor/body with ruby cantilever vs hardened tapered Al in the AT line with the AT 36: way superior to the AT 37, same inside the Benz Micro line vs the non-ruby cantilever and Ortofon was not the exception neither.

 

"" ruby provides a unique character that appeals to certain listeners and aligns with the luxury branding of products like those from Etsuro ""

 

not exactly to the MUSIC reproduction but " certain listeners "

 

"" the luxury branding of products like those from Etsuro. "" , that’s it " luxury " due that sapphire/ruby shines and boron not and the same for the cartridge body laquer/Urushi but at the end it’s a Hana non luxury cartridge.

Now, in the vintage times Excel was in the USA market with its USA Argent brand where they had a diamond catilever one and a sapphire/ruby cantilever too and this one was theonly fail in the market I know about Excel.

Only for your records: that sapphire base/cartridge top plate in the Etsuro Gold and in the one you bougth is exactly the same( same size too. ) in its 1979 top of the line LOMC ES-10 that I still own and no it does not came with sapphire/ruby cantilever Excel knows exactly what they do with its own brand cartridge and Etsuro is one of those " listeners " you are talking about.

 

@mijostyn " should be inherent in the music itself, rather than introduced or altered by our choice of gear. We may choose a different path but the end goal is to end up with a system that faithfully reproduces the original recording, allowing the music to speak for itself without any additional influence from the components " good said because Musicality persé is only an audiophile adjective.

 

That luxury with Etsuro or silver wired SUT is part of our ignorance levels and sellers/manufacturers take advantage$$$$ of that low level knowledge about but this is the market: offer and demand and who win? $$$$$ no one else.

 

@mijostyn    "" I want to know exactly what is on the record and nothing else. On the very best systems colored equipment always shows itself as flawed.  ""

I can't add nothing to your exceptional statement.

 

R.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@rauliruegas so what did you think of the V15 V SAS/Boron?

I am also considering auditioning Whest Audio TWO.2 Discrete dual mono phono. I would love to hear your direct experience and what cart you’re using with Whest phono. 

@mijostyn  : If you own the cartridge body then the best is to fix it with boron cantilever and MR stylus tip and not SAS boron.

 

R.

@rauliruegas  Where an I going to get one of those?

I am not sure, in fact I doubt, that the velocity of sound in the material used to construct the cantilever is necessarily directly proportional to the resulting audio sound quality, meaning "the faster the velocity of sound in the material, the more accurate is the cantilever". This is obviously because the job of the cantilever is to wiggle in the magnetic field due to undulations in the groove at the other end, thereby generating the audio signal as an electrical impulse. The job of the cantilever has nothing to do with conducting sound and might even be a detriment to accurate response to the groove undulations, because of secondary vibration of the cantilever.  Further, aluminum cantilevers or any other type where the stylus can be press-fitted into the cantilever, rather than glued to a blank surface, may actually be an advantage. The glue adds extra mass just where you don't want it.

@mijostyn : I remember that you posted that you never buy the Etsuro Gold because its tracking spec is lower than 80um.

 

Well Excel was founded like 50 years ago and today the manufacturer workers changed because that problem with the tracking abilities of the Etsuro Gold is similar to thr Hana top of the line, not very good trackers.

In change in the past the Excel ES-10 ( same sapphire top plate than Etsuro Gold. ) has a 90um tracking ability with an output level of 0.2mv when the today designs are in the 0.35-0.4mv, here lower mv output level is better.

I don't know how much spend lalitk for the Etsuro but last year ( NOS ) I bougth the Excel  for only 200.00 and is a great performer with out " luxury " and only high quality level and yes outperforms the Gold that I listened in my system last year ( I posted on the gold somewhere. ). If I remember I share with you the opportunity and you told me that like to liven in the present. Time to time discovering the past is " fantastic " and a " surprise ", worth to do it and is a " win to win " choice. Some of the best designs came from the past.

 

R.

lewm , those are numbers of the materials characteristics that that true expert took ( I only pasted his information and I think that he knew why and certainly he knows a lot more that you and me together. ) ) and every one knew that the cantilever does not " sense " sound but the groove modulations: are you trying to discover the " black thread " with your post? and about the aluminum that was very first posted in the long MM thread: your " notice " is very old but no problem with.

Btw, that " aluminum advantage " is not really one against boron or diamond cantilevers and that’s it why top today cartridges use boron/diamond and not aluminum with stylus pressed fitted. Yes was JC who shared that aluminum subject in the MM thread. Aluminum stylus pressed/fitted is no existence in the Lyra cartridges however I did it with more than 7+ vintage cartridges in the past and was a mistake from my part. I will let for other specific thread but in the long MM was posted.

 

R.

lewm , here you can read another cartridge expert manufacturer about sound speed characteristic of diferent cantilever materials that named it. You only have to download the " flyer " :

 

JVC X-1 2/4 Channel Moving-Magnet Cartridge Manual | Vinyl Engine

 

As me you are an amateur.

 

R.

If you own the cartridge body then the best is to fix it with boron cantilever and MR stylus tip and not SAS boron.

The Jico Boron/SAS is a boron cantilever with a microridge profile stylus  - is there something I'm missing here ?

@mijostyn  : Today Jico has not the exact replacement for the V15 V and in its site looks as the SAS/MR does not exist and certainly not for the Shure model you are looking for. This is the SAS and it’s not close the Gyger S/Replicant 100 or MR:

 

 

 

@dover  I never seen that SAS MR stylus tip because or the stylus shape is SAS or is MR: both are not exactly the same.

 

@lewm   this is the third on the row cartridge expert as Jico that stated on  cantilever Boron material:

 

" 
is one of the most suitable materials for cantilevers. its density is low, Young’s modulus is large, and the speed of sound propagation is approximately 2.6 times faster than that of aluminum. ""

 

R.

 

Jico SAS above - see the ridge around the top - some call it a micro ridge.

Others call. it a microscanner.

Have a closer look at the bottom right hand of your diagram "contact with records" there is a ridge at the bottom of the stylus.

@lalitk 

what’s eta of your etsuro?

@dover Nice picture @rauliruegas the SAS is a micro ridge design. I have a micro ridge stylus on my Hyperion. The Shure variant was probably cut differently. Todays laser profilers are better than anything they had back then. I will get the SAS boron version which is $150 less than the tapered ruby version. 

@mdalton 

By Aug 31st. 

@mijostyn  @dover   : Do you know why Jico can't use MR word?  because is a Namiki trade mark.

Now, what I remeber of Jico SAS samples is tha's it quality is not really top ( that's why only 500 hours as Jico specs. ).

His site does not said everything because in the contact surface numbers by Shibata stylus Jico choosed the old Shibata one even that exist 3 Shibata dimensions and one of them is 72um surface contact.

The ruby/sapphire price is a trick  because Jico knows that boron is way better but knowledge level in audiophiles looks Ruby word and its ignorance makes they think is a jewel and must be better. Jico takes advantage of our ihnorance levels.

 

mijos, you can try at thde end you need it.  In good shape go a head.

R.

@dover : Very good eye in the Jico drawing comparison. Thank's.

 

R.

@rauliruegas You know me. I will look at that stylus under high mag and If I do not like it, away it goes. I will post pictures on Imgur along with the others. 

the Jico SAS is a namiki (orbray) Microridge.  The original SAS had a boron cantilever and was replaced by sapphire about 6 years ago when the supply of boron rod went away for just over a year so the switch to sapphite was purely logistical and the boron option returned when the raw materials became available again.  FWIW I much prefer the sound of the boron to the sapphire

dave

 

@mijostyn  : Yes, you have to and play and listen with. I owned the boron and sapphire/ruby and really did not like me its quality build.

 

Now, SAS had one for Technics cartridge ( boron ) and almost all the owners were not satisfied with . 

If you don't like it and due that the Shure V15-V was the top of the line and very good performer you can send to J.Long to fix it with the first rank quality build by Namiki boron MR or other alternatibe could be the boron Shibata ( 72um.) he has both and other options from Gyger and Ogura.

 

Good luck.

R.

I’ve been circling around this thread because I’m in the same boat.  To reduce noise I got a VDH current phono stage, but I also have Koetsu stone and Ortofon SPU carts which reportedly work well with SUTs.  This would require purchasing budget challenging quality voltage MM stage and likely silver SUTs.

Unsure which SUTs: 

• Match SPU brands (Ortofon SUT for SPUs, Koetsu SUT for Corralstone). It’s likely copper
• Zesto Audio Andros Allasso SUT- very versatile, but copper
• EMIA - custom silver- amongst the very best but pricey

Also, unsure of how much I’d need to spend for a quality “voltage” MM phono stage.

Dear @kennyc  : "  have Koetsu stone and Ortofon SPU carts which reportedly work well with SUTs. "

Do it you a favor and just forget ( for now ) what other reported because the type of higher distortions/fake colors that they like maybe do not like you because your targets could be different.

If what you want is to listen what's in recording then forgeret about SUTs that only degrades the cartridge signal and no matter what can't improve/enehance in any way the cartridge signal.

 

You can read this M:Fremer full review on this active high gain MM/MC phono stage and take a look with wich cartridges he reviewed along which preamp:

PS Audio Stellar Phono phono preamplifier | Stereophile.com

 

M.Fremer:

 

" 

I recommend a listen to the Stellar to anyone in the market for a new phono preamp, regardless of price. I don't think I've ever written that before. Like darTZeel's clever engineer Hervé Delétraz, Myers designs using a deft combination of technical knowhow and careful listening, more interested in the sonic outcome than in getting the absolute best measured performance. In my view, that's a winning approach.

 

---

Footnote 1: As you can see in the measurements section, JA called the RIAA response "superbly accurate."  "

 

Or you can go for the Phonolinepreamp as Dartzeel or Boulder. Just remember that the quality sound in any LOMC cartridge depends not only of a first rate phono stage but needs to a first rate line stage preamp.

If you can, stay far away from any SUT at any price MUSIC deserves a lot more than just that and you too.

 

R.

Dear @lewm   : " aluminum cantilevers or any other type where the stylus can be press-fitted into the cantilever, rather than glued to a blank surface, may actually be an advantage. The glue adds extra mass just where you don't want it.. "

 

Did you listen an aluminum cartridge cantilever with stylus press fitted?

 

Probably not but I did it.

In the long MM thread JC posted that aluminum subject just as a characteristic and were some audiophiles as me that took that " road " in my case because my tought was that exist a more direct conection between the stylus and cantilever.

Higher moving mass? how much higher? because today stylus glued almost you can't see the " glue ". n the other side and as anything in audio always exist trade-offs and my first hand experiences about told me that the glue stylus/cantilever function as a very good feedback damping and a very good damp for the tremendous developed forces during tracking with out really makes a " damage " to that minimum " high " moving mass.

Now you have some cartridges including the MC2000 where you can have a real first hand experience next time that you need to re-tip it.

 

R.

@kennyc

Depending on your budget, I would encourage you to try SUT. Reach out to Bob Sattin @Bob Devices, his SUT’s are reasonably priced. Personally, I wouldn’t get hung up on Copper vs Silver windings. I do not have a direct experience with SUT yet but my upcoming audition includes a EMIA SUT that was build for Fuuga cart, trans-impedance phono, tube phono with MC/MM options.

As others have reported, a customized SUT should sound better; @mdalton recently implemented Swissoner HM-7 SUT with Koetsu Urushi Tsugaru and reported, “Way more dynamic, without losing koetsu magic”.

There is no substitute for trying things in your system and make an informed decision based on your own findings.

Raul, You are always right, but I do own and listen to the MC2000, and it does have a press-fitted stylus on its aluminum cantilever.

Lalitk, Do I understand you to say that you are going to use an EMIA SUT or a "transimpedance" phono stage (hate the term because it implies that the internal impedance of the cartridge and the finite input Z of the phono stage make no difference, but both parameters most assuredly do) or a tube phono with MM and MC capabilities?  Presumably you will mate the EMIA SUT with the MM inputs of the last named tube phono stage, yes? So you will cover all the possible ways for amplifying the output of an LOMC, except the use of a head amplifier (outboard gain stage to takes the place of a SUT).

@lewm 

That would be correct. My dealer is affording me the opportunity to choose the best option for Etsuro Bordeaux and Fuuga Carts. I will make a decision on Carts / Phono and SUT only after listening, 

Test 1 - Bordeaux/ Fuuga  ➡️  Allnic H-6500 MC Input 

Test 2 - Fuuga / Bordeaux  ➡️ EMIA ➡️ H-6500 MM Input 

Test 3 - Fuuga / Bordeaux ➡️ Konus Phono 

Test 4 - Fuuga / Bordeaux ➡️ Accuphase Phono Board, will A/B both MM and MC 

Cheers! 

Personally, I wouldn’t get hung up on Copper vs Silver windings

@lalitk @kennyc Totally agree - I became a SUT lover on "just" copper windings. In fact, tried the silver (Ag) version of Lundahl LL1931 (in a K&K box) versus the copper LL1931 in my VAC phono, and preferred copper (qualifying that a bit - the Lundahls aren’t my preference in general). Kevin Hayes of VAC has also told me he prefers the copper version, regardless of price. Not saying that can be extrapolated to other SUT makes - but copper ain’t bad! Sometimes I think that if copper cost over $1000 / oz, it would be the most desired audiophile wire metal BY FAR. We take for granted that it's so good, and affordable. 

There is no substitute for trying things in your system and make an informed decision based on your own findings.

Also totally agree