I have been an SUT fan for my entire audio lifespan. I am still a huge fan of SUTs, but lately I have heard several head amps that have blown me away. To my ears there is a subtle difference to the sound between the two - all of my SUTs have a signature to them (like tube amps and preamps). With some cartridges I just prefer through an SUT, like the Ortofon SPU line. Others (Benz and Hana come to mind) a really good head amp had an airiness and delicacy that SUTs can't match. You need to test. Isn't this obsession... er, hobby fun?
Step Up Transformers….Are they Worth the Trouble?
Some of you may aware of my Garrard 301 project, it’s now very close to completion. The plinth finally shipped from Hungry after 3 months of long wait.
Given my last experience with Hana Umami Red, I would like to take things to the next level. Which brings me to mating low output cart with a SUT. Every review I’ve read so far suggests when the SUT-MC match is right, the end result is heavenly. The bass is right, the midrange is clear, and most importantly, the highs are relaxed and extended—not rolled off.
I am not saying you can’t get great sound without a SUT but it appears with a properly matched SUT, sound can be quite magical.
Thought this would be the right time to get input from experienced users here since I am still contemplating my cartridge and outboard phonostage options.
My preference would be to go with a tube phono…I kinda miss tinkering with tubes :-)
My system, Garrard 301 (fully refurbished), Reed 3P tonearm, Accuphase E-650 with built-in AD50 analog board ➡️ Tannoy Canterbury’s.
Cart and phono under consideration through my dealer,
Fuuga - Output : 0.35 mVrms | Impedance : 2.5 Ω (1kHz)
Phonostage - Tron Convergence and Konus Audio Phono Series 1000
The cart - MC combination, I am lusting after is Etsuro Urushi Bordeaux MC with their Etsuro Transformer.
https://www.etsurojapan.com/product/bordeaux
The other transformer is EMIA, cooper or silver version.
Your input is appreciated!
352 responses Add your response
love your direction. i have a warm place in my heart for my much loved Dobbins Garrard 301 from 2008-2011, i have owned -4- Etsuro cartridges and still have one which is my favorite all time moving coil cartridge. my main phono is the silver wound EMIA phono corrector hot rodded with 2 power supplies, and i’m enjoying my EMIA silver wound MC Trio. so i agree with your perspective on what a properly matched SUT can bring to the table......ultra sexy musicality and bass agility. i love the humanity and immersion i get from my Dave Slagle designed SUT. he helped me to properly match it to my cartridges. one of the SUT’s in my MC Trio is a 1:15 silver which seems to be a perfect match for the Etsuro. cannot say whether the Etsuro OEM SUT is as good. my only comment would be that if you ever try to sell the Etsuro SUT that might be harder than a Dave Slagle SUT. i did compare the copper and silver SUT’s from Slagle and preferred the silver. but not all silver is created equal and what Dave uses is quite special and not at all tipped up. maybe ask Dave about that for more info. i also have 2 separate solid state phono pre’s inside my battery powered dart preamp. they are very fine and i do use them and appreciate their low noise and dynamics, but overall prefer the EMIA tubes + SUT approach musically. a bit greater emotive content. hope that helps. congrats on your direction. |
For the very lowest output MC (Ortofon MC2000), Dave Slagle built me a head amp which I couple with my very much tweaked tube-rectified and tube voltage- regulated Silvaweld phono stage. This combo is the best sounding of 3 possible ways in which I can achieve the gain necessary for the MC2000 output of .05mV. The others being a high gain SS phono stage or a high gain hybrid SS/tube phono stage. So the common denominator is that Dave Slagle knows what he is doing. |
Would you provide some brands that impressed you. Thank you. @lewm…appreciate your vote on Dave Slagle. Appreciate your candid feedback. I will take you up on your offer to connect with your friend and reach out to Dave Slagle for a customized SUT solution. |
@lalitk I have owned a lot of SUTs over the years, including Ortofon ST-80 (great w/ SUT cartridges), Bob's Devices w/ Cinemag transformers (highly recommended, and Bob is a great guy), A123, various SUTs using Hashimoto HM-5 & HM-7 transformers (very distinctive sound) and Audio Note. There have been others as well. Having listed all of these you need to decide which cartridge(s) you want to use and then pick an SUT to match. Or vice versa. Some SUTs have switchable gain but they will still sound better with particular cartridges. This is the beauty of head amps - you with most of them you can change settings to precisely match your cartridge. |
I've used a number of different SUTs over the years but the one that sounds best with my current carts is an EMIA CU 20:1. I run it unloaded into the MM of my Zesto Andros Deluxe II and it sounds great. The carts I current use with it are a Dynavector XV-1s, ZYX Airy 3x and a Koetsu Urushi Wajima. I did try a Lyra Kleos SL last year and that was a bad match for me. I've heard that silver is the way to go so funds permitting, lol. Good luck! |
I suggest you check out the ModWright PH 9.0 XT. The XT is an upgrade with Lundahl SUT’s and the power supply is tube rectified. Just using a SUT mean using the MM input so matching impedance could be an issue. I have seen but never owned some SUT’s with many adjustments to manage the gain also. I am very happy with the PH 9.0 XT. I use it with an Acoustic Signature Hurricane plus Hana Red and it is connected to a PrimaLuna EVO 400 preamp. That connects to 2 EVO 400 power amps plus Sopra 3’s and REL 212 SX subs. |
@sgordoxyz Unless something has changed, the Lundahl step up transformers in the ModWright PH 9.0 XT are their lower end LL926 ones. I suspect they are actually a weak point in an otherwise excellent phono stage. |
@lalitk The Plinth is an extreme sample of a High Quality Workmanship. If a Bentley Continental Owner was Specifying a TT as an extra, this Plinth would be the Sales Person recommendation. As for SUT's I have a broad experience and have even been Demo'd not too far in the past, the very elusive to be discovered 'The Head or Brick' SUT designed by TDP, prior to the EAR Company being Incorporated. This was presented as a Model at a Comparison using Step Up and Head Amp's. Firstly, Is the Phon's on the Shortlist not capable of matching the Cart's shortlisted? I strongly recommend having the experience of the Phon's only, before looking at alternate MC Amplification options used in conjunction with owned Phon' / Phon's.. Secondly, and underpinned by the recently discovered SUT Model experienced in use as a Perfect Match for a Miyajima Cart' , where the SUT was supplied with a Copper Wound Tranx, which had a profound impact on myself. On the same day another same Company Model with a Silver Wound Tranx was also used with the Miyajima Cart', the end result being that this Company has compelled me to place their Products experienced way up on my list of must experience a Home Trial. I strongly recommend an investigation, even a dialogue with the Company Sculpture A about their options to be offered on SUT's. Thirdly, I strongly recommend not to overlook Head Amp' Designs. Note: My experiences of SUT's has brought to the fore, the notion that SUT's are injecting Various amounts of a discernible Richness of Tone. A choice to be considered is how much perception of Richness of Tone an individual is willing to live with. The perception of Tonal Presence can be from one type of Tranx (Cinemag 1254) perceived to the point of being towards lean, with a Tranx (Brand not recollected Models 800 or 1200) both of these are overbearingly Bass Weighted, being beyond what I would refer to as a injection of Richness of Tone. Head Amp's are the opposite, certain models can present with a perception they are a close match in Tone to a SUT that has a Lean Tone (Hint of Richness). The Head Amp' is also capable of moving towards a Bright unbearable presentation. It is the individuals choice where they 'get of the bus', on their journey to find the end sonic they are willing to live with. I don't know any who found the comfort zone on their first toe tip on to the Waters of MC Signal Amplification. I have a few Phonostages, A few SUT's and a Loan Option on a selection of an individuals own design Head Amp's to satisfy my overall listening needs. I do not regularly use one of the Phon's' in use Built In MC Stage. Even though good and very well reviewed by a Group who long term loaned the Phon. For myself, the Phon' does not present with the same attraction a SUT or Head Amp can create in use through the MM Input, hence I have added expense to the method for using this Phon'.
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SUT Brand is now recollected ( Audio Innovations 1200 ) produced by a Company that has as part of its history, an individual that is now the Owner of AN UK. A SUT with this type of influence on the end sound, will change the balance of Coherence across the frequencies, to the point the Mid's, Upper Mid's and Highs are all seemingly subdued and not able to project. That said, the same SUT used with a Valve Input / Output Phon' at a Phon' Bake Off when a liberty was given to mix and match devices. Resulted in the pairing producing a Venue Filling Sound quite different to any other Phon' > SUT used in the venue on the day. The impact made was that it was applauded when playing John Lee Hooker - Boom Boom Boom. |
I have the Bordeaux and Fuuga and am currently using the EMIA 1:14 Silver SUT. In my system, the silver SUT is well worth the price difference. Jeffrey and Dave were generous in letting my try a couple different ratios to find the best one (and of course the one suggested sounded the best The Fuuga is a great all around cartridge...does everything well and it has no errors of commission. I would describe the sound as very slightly 'tubey', i.e. slightly forgiving. The Bordeaux probably retrieves more information and leans more slightly into 'analytical'. I have not spent as much time with Bordeaux/EMIA combination (have been alternating between the Fuuga and Etsuro Gold). Your post has inspired me to spend more time with the combo this week and hopefully I will remember to return to this thread. I have no experience with the Etsuro SUT. |
Echoing the comments on how important it is to find the right match between cartridge and SUT, I was fortunate enough to evaluate three different SUTs after upgrading to my current Koetsu Blue Lace. I auditioned the CS Port (which I thought would be a good match with my turntable), SA Labs, and Koetsu. Each produced a very different listening experience and in the end, I went with the Koetsu. I can't recall the exact sonic differences (it was a year ago), but the Koetsu stood out as providing the most balanced and revealing improvements, versus the others which seemed to overemphasize certain elements. Bottom line: if you can "test drive" several different transformers, I suspect you will find the right one in the end. |
“trans impedance phono” Thanks for your recommendation. I already have Konus Audio Vinyle Phono (trans impedance) on my list to audition with Fuuga cart. Thank you for chiming in. That’s exactly I wanted to know! I concur with your feedback on Fuuga but find your assessment on Bordeaux bit perplexing. Other users and reviewers have not reported this cart to be analytical. Very detailed, slightly dark and full bodied sound overall but not analytical. I wonder, what could possibly the reason for Bordeaux to sound slightly analytical in your system…is it the silver wound SUT cause I found Silver to be ultra detailed that could lead to sound being analytical. Some folks dig this, it’s certainly not my cup of tea. I once had all Silver wire loom in my system…while it was all very exciting and sparkly at the beginning; eventually I couldn’t listen to my system over couple of hours. I look forward to hearing your impressions with Bordeaux + EMIA. My current system renders a romantic, slightly warm with a touch of mystique soundstage. The mid-range is simply magical. Lot of this I attribute to careful tweaking over the years, dealer support and my choice of gear plus the cables. |
love the Etsuro combo, though have not heard either. SUTs hard to hear at dealers for obvious reasons. But regarding other SUTs that I myself am contemplating replacing my Rothwell with (Cartridge is Urushi Tsugaru) are: -Koetsu (of course) -Consolidated Audio -Treehaus -Antiphon -Swissonor (Hashimoto HM-7) -Auditorium 23 Homage T1 -Airtight Hope that helps. Pictures please (of Garrard)
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The SUT's I own/use are bought as Tranx only from the Brands Hashimoto and Cinemag, which have been assembled into a Chassis using Solid Copper Chassis Mount RCA Connectors. From recent experiences had, I feel compelled to strongly suggest the Chassis Mount RCA Connectors are a Low Eddy Design. The Box/Chassis is down to the individual to design as a Bespoke fit for purpose or purchase a Model of the shelf. Leaving one with the Oldest of decisions to make, are the Tranx's to be seen Mounted on the Chassis or Out of Sight contained within the Chassis, these types of choices can be deal breakers |
Just to clarify: the 1660 are output transformers in the X upgrade. The 9226 are the SUTs (you can see them in the back near the MC inputs), which are the same as in the PH150. The 9226 were chosen for the low gain. I use Hashimoto HM-7s with my Modwright, but after the X/T upgrades there's no huge difference between the HM-7 and the stock MC input. I prefer the higher gain (setting the PH9.0 to -6db), and I already had the Hashimotos. OP, I would consider an SUT if my phono stage was using active gain on the MC side. |
If you just want to try for now, I would go with a Ned Clayton Cinemag 1254 off eBay. It's adjustable 4 ways and is no slouch. At least you can determine which amount of gain works for you and then you can go from there. A couple of other inexpensive SUTs to try are the Entre ET100 and maybe a Fidelity Research FRT4. They are adjustable also and have had good reviews. |
Hello lalitk. Yes SUTs can solve a lot of problems. Get the ones that use silver wire. Happy Listening! |
The point not to overlook is that a Phon' with a Built In MC / MM Channel can be a Phon' that has an MC Input that when experienced proves a real challenge for a MM Input being coupled to a SUT or Head Amp'. I could easily live with my multi adjustable MC Input on a owned / used Phon'. The options available by having both MC / MM Inputs and the additional devices that cans be added, has enabled myself to discover a end sound that satisfies myself, but not at the expense of leaving the MC Input unwanted. I demonstrate the MC Input to others, to help with their own learning about end sounds that can be produced. My preferred end sound is certainly not ubiquitous, and the MC Input has been very well liked by some of the individuals who have been introduced to it. |
@lalitk How about starting off with a top MM like a Nagaoka MP500 to get the turntable and phono amplification ball running? (I only use Decca cartridges on my 401 tables) You might be surprised, and it will, at least give you a reference point of what the 301/Reed sounds like without all the MC-based extras for relatively little money |
I recently purchased the new SKY 20-S with XLR connectors from Bob’s Devices and very happy. I’m using this with my Modwright PH 9.0XT and ZYX Ultimate Airy X cartridge. The ModWright on its own was extremely good and I was very happy. I wanted to try a SUT and will say that it adds detail and clarity. I also felt the soundstage opens up a bit more. I recently took it out of my system and then realized how much it brought to my system. The SKY 20-S will stay permanently. |
I own two SUTs now, a Quadratic MC-1 and an Ortofon ST-80 SE. Previously I owned a Musical Surroundings Nova III phono stage with linear PS I used with Ortofon 2M black, Benz Micro Glider SL, Ortofon Cadenza black. With six months of warranty left, it developed a “hiss.” This was audible from 6 feet away - over my tinnitus and presbyacusis. No combination of changing wiring, interconnects, ground wires, preamp/amp/speakers made it go away. DEFINITELY in the box. Tried changing settings, cartridge, turntable… you see where this is going. First, I was ignored - sending an email for record keeping - then I called, then an “engineer” emailed asking for a recording of the hiss. Which I did. No answer. Weeks went by, still no answer. The heck with it. I sold it on eBay for 60% of what I’d paid for it after buying the Quadratic SUT. Buyer had no complaints. Can’t beat solid state - REAL “solid” state wiring and jacks - for component noise limitations. I used the Quadratic for most of a year, it was a great match to the Benz AND the Cadenza, then i found a “fell off the truck” deal on an Ortofon Verismo and a few months later a similar deal on the Ortofon St-80 SE SUT. Simply sublime.
And NO “hiss.” Wouldn’t go back to a box of electronics for a phono stage if you gave me one… well, I’d keep the SUTs handy just in case. |
All audio transformers have to be properly loaded. This is important so as to allow for the flattest and widest frequency response. The correct load will vary with the source impedance (the cartridge) since transformers transform impedance (they don't isolate impedance!). If the SUT is designed for a particular cartridge the right load is likely 47KOhms with a bit of capacitance (100pf is typical; that assumes about a meter of low capacitance tonearm cable). But SUTs designed as a generic such as Lundahl or Jensen (who publishes the correct loading values on their website) need a specific load which will be different for each cartridge used. If you don't have it loaded properly its a good bet you're not hearing what the SUT can really do. I find that while you can get the noise floor down really low using SUTs, its more musical if you can run direct-in. But how that works with the preamp I'm using will not always be so with all preamps. So you'll have to try it and see. Just keep in mind that the loading thing is pretty important- its not plug and play in many cases! |
@lalitk has stated " Good point, I am focusing on ‘custom’ SUT’s that are designed specifically to mate my choice of the cart’s " . For this reason I have suggested the contact with Sculpture A @pindac has stated " the end result being that this Company has compelled me to place their Products experienced way up on my list of must experience a Home Trial ". |
@lalitk OK- keep in mind that if you have an SUT designed for a particular cartridge, if you change out the cartridge, you may have to change the SUT too or figure out the right loading. This will also be true to a lessor extent if you change the tonearm cable, since the capacitance of the cable is part of the loading of the transformer. Its these little details which are really the downfall of analog, not the performance or the sound! So if you get a custom transformer built, ask the manufacturer for tips for loading it for best performance. If he tells you there's no such information or you don't need it, consider looking elsewhere. |
Thank again for your insight on SUT’s. I am aware of limitations with SUT’s as far as compatibility with another cartridge. I am willing to put up with extra cost of securing another SUT’s once I change my cart. I am approaching my re-entry into analog with a singular purpose, the very best sound out of my investment. |
@lalitk If the very best sound is your goal then I'd would not limit my search to SUTs only! There are plenty of phono sections that can run LOMC cartridges straight in and IMO, some offer noticeably more clarity and bandwidth. |
Would you please care to elaborate on ‘phono sections’ options / brands. If this would entail switching out to a new preamp with stellar phono section then I am not ready to do that just yet. I made a mistake of selling my Shindo Monbrison preamp from Ken Shindo era that had a stellar MC phono section. I may get back to all Shindo system but that means changing out speakers…may be down the road. I have an amazing synergy between Accuphase Integrated and Tannoy Canterbury’s, so the idea is to built upon what’s in place. |
I agree that the investigation can be broad, others have shared in such a broad investigation. I don't agree the Math only is the defining information that should create a shortlist of options to investigate. The end sound and how it impresses is the one element that really matters. To discover end sound, foot work and listening is what is required. A built in MC Stage is out there to be discovered that does sound very impressive, a SUT or Head Amp' used in conjunction on the same Phon' can create a end sound that has that extra level of appeal. The added devices in the Signal Path will need to audibly assessed for what is removed or added. My selections have added to the end sound, to my liking preference. Nothing of attraction is perceived to be diminished to the point it is a detriment to the end sound, through adding the additional Selected Cables and Selected Device. I have experiences where the above has not occurred and devices being investigated have been rejected for the impression had on the end sound. The following Links will show another respected individuals experiences and assessments of their own SUT investigations. There will be more info to be assessed resulting from others who are contributing. An open mind and broad experience become a great aide on the SUT / Head Amp' subject. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-of-quadratic-mc-1-sut-with-comparisons-to-other-suts-2 https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/hagerman-piccolo-zero-new-transimpedance-head-amp |
@pindac FWIW, math is what was used to make any audio product. There are no audio products of any merit that don't use engineering. The thing the engineer has to understand though is how the ear perceives sound rather than how the eye perceives specs on paper. I think this quote says it all: "If it measures good and sounds bad, -- it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, -- you've measured the wrong thing." -Daniel von Recklinghausen Audiophiles tend to ignore the wisdom of this statement because so often the only specs (and math) printed has/had little to do with what we actually hear. So they feel they've been lied to, so much that they have developed a cult of misunderstanding. These days we have the instrumentation and understanding (although clearly the latter aspect is not universal by any stretch) to be able to draw a direct line between what we can hear to what we can measure and vice versa.
@lalitk No. But I can tell you something important to look for- to ask the manufacturer about: "What loading are you using on your LOMC phono cartridge?" If they respond with anything other than '47K' its likely that it won't be plug and play with that phono section (you'll have to play with loading) and you may get more ticks and pops on that account that sound like they are on the LP surface. |
@atmasphere Very Touchy, Thank You for the reminder and prompting myself to state as a Layman. Recorded Music Replay to become an Audio Experience, is dependent on Electric being generated at a source, which is to become a sent signal and managed through a selection of designs for Amplification that is dependent on Math. Where the Math is a fundamental requirement to Amplify a Electrical Signal with the sole intent to convert the Amplified Signal to become a conversion to a different energy type being Sound. How silly of me to let it seem like I was overlooking this area of importance I have plenty of 'over the dam' experiences with Sales Persons. My assessment is that in their view, they are 'always right' in their own opinions and those shared are some sought of Gospel. Lucky for them they are not written as these opinions are very short lived, or last as long as the next best of the best arrives on the shelves. Sales Persons are able to make very interesting claims for Sale Items, at the time of seeking a Closed Won. This biased encounter is one I have been proactive in avoiding. I have removed encounters with at work Sales Persons from my Audio Experience for many many years passed. I am quite willing to meet with Sales Persons who do/have made a living from Audio Equipment sales where a Social Activity is occurring in relation to Audio experiences. In general the individuals I meet frequently / infrequently are liked by myself and a pleasure to spend time with. Where Sales Persons fall very short, is where they can't sell to everybody met. Even when professing their bias and declaring designs promoted as being the best of the best. Such declarations are not enough, end sound for a large group of individuals really does mean something to them, especially when narrowed down to where it becomes important to be entertained as result of experiencing sound resulting from recorded music being replayed. Audio Devices no matter how well designed, how accurate the Math, when encountered and is perceived as producing an end sound that is very unattractive, for many the only want left for the experience, is to end the experience hastily. Sales Persons do not have the monopoly on how one perceives sound produced from Audio Devices. I have been in agreement with Sales Persons when met, either at a place of work or socially. Where I agreed the device selected for a Demo' looked very attractive as a design, and the Control Knobs were a Bespoke design not typically seen. I'm not sure how these attributes to the product, would entertain myself for a prolonged period where the Sound Produced is the entertainment being sought.
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@pindac Could you explain the 'Very touchy' remark? I was simply pointing out fact. Did you take it differently? This is nothing to do with sales FWIW. |
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