@vuch It never hurts to try anything! The S7s are a great loudspeaker. I also have a friend with a pair.
@lalitk Those are purely my feelings which were not meant to be reflected on anyone else. You made a reference to the preferences of those making suggestions so I told you mine. All those venues are different just like Ella Fitzgerald and Rickie Lee Jones have different voices. I mention those venues because I have been to all of them on multiple occasions. I have recordings made at every venue and many others. I am particularly fond of the Dave Holland Quintet recordings and I have seen them three times. They are a favorite reference for system evaluation.
Measurements, particularly those made in the actual listening environment are very useful. They get you in the ballpark. Fine tuning is always done by ear. The problem that I see repeatedly is audiophiles trying to tune their system by changing cables or rolling tubes. You can not do it that way, none of those techniques have the necessary bandwidth to be useful. If you really want to tune a system by ear try digital signal processing. You can not get bass right without it. By right I mean the bass you here at Red Rocks, or the bass you hear at The Blue Note.
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@lewm The Lino C 3.0is a much better phono stage than the JC3+ it is also 3 times as expensive if you load it up with all the same features. I do not have a Lino C. I have a Seta L Plus. It has a much wider bandwidth and costs three times as much as a similarly equipped Lino C 3.0.
@lalitk That connection is a moving target and depends more on your mood just as much as the actual performance of the system. Many if not most systems overcompensate for some characteristics at the expense, even absence of others. That overcompensation usually depends on which characteristic the user cherishes most. A common example is too much midbass. The person likes bass but his system does not go all that low so he manages to adjust his system or select components that over cook the midbass as a compensation.
What do I prefer? Accuracy. Accuracy in tonal balance, timbre, detail and imaging along with the lack of distortion, accurate transient response and dynamic capability. Go to a small jazz club like the Blue Note or Birdland in NYC. You want your system to sound like that. Go to a Hall like the Boston Symphony Hall and listen to Beethoven's 9th. You want your system to sound like that. Tall order. How close can you get? Close enough depending on how much money and expertise you can throw at it. If your system connects you to the music in a way you like I suppose you are all set. My problem is I never look for what is right, only what is wrong. The problem of creating an incredible system is a challenge to be conquered.
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@vuch @lewm is absolutely right. With the 12AX7s gain is 68 dB which is way more than enough. If you do not like the way it sounds you are looking at a different cartridge or phono stage, not a SUT. Tube rolling will drive you insane. My suggestion is not to get started. Like @rauliruegas I am not fond of tube phono stages excepting some AR units and they are hybrids. The color of the tube stages covers up the characteristics of the cartridges. If you do not like what you are hearing it is 90% the phonostage, 10% the cartridge. My personal favorite phono stages are Parasound JC3+ followed by the Channel D Lino C 3.0 and then the more expensive Channel D units. The Lino C 3.0 gets a Stereophile A+ rating.
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@vuch You have more than enough gain to run that cartridge. If you think you need more switch to the 4 12AX7 1 12AT7 configuration. A SUT is not needed at all.
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@mulveling Glad you like it. Yes it does limit arm choices. Fortunately, the Schroeder CB fits perfectly and it is a great arm that can be adapted to any cartridge. I have run everything from the very stiff MC Diamond to the Shure V15 getting all to my favorite 5 to 8Hz resonance point. You can get away with lower resonance points on the Cosmos resulting in better, tighter bass. My Name is Mudd thunders. Other arms include all of the Origin Live arms (the CB is better than any of them IMHO), the Kuzma 4 point 9, a great arm and the 9" SMEs. I am not as familiar with FR arms. I never look at arms with removable head shells. I prefer no contacts between cartridge clips and phono stage XLRs ala CB and 4 Point 9. The CB has litz wire in a kevlar casing. You can hang yourself with it. I have changed cartridges 100 times if not more and the wires and clips are none the worse for wear. All my cartridges get a mounting plate of the right mass for that particular cartridge. The plates are lined up initially using the SmarTractor and then they are marked with an awl. The position then becomes quickly repeatable without the need for the SmarTractor again. I just have to set VTF and anti skate. The CB's central post has a scale on it so returning to the same VTA for a given cartridge is no fuss easy.
I do not know if you have noticed yet, but vacuum clamping can produce quite a static charge. This will be worse in the Winter months. If you notice this, I have a record cleaning formula that will prevent it. You have to have a vacuum drying machine to use it.
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@mulveling 1++ There is no substitute for a properly hung turntable. Everything else becomes inconsequential. David Fletcher was the first to figure this out followed by his good friend AJ Conti, SME and Avid. Even a properly suspended turntable can feed back. One cause is a tonearm resonance frequency that is too high. In my own case I had inadvertently created a Helmholtz resonator. The solution was to close off the space under the turntable with a skirt of sorts. It has to be a local problem. Everything outside the suspension above 2-3 Hz is filtered out.
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@lalitk I can not speak to every cartridge out there. All I can say is that I have not had good luck with cartridges in the 3 to 10 ohm range. They either do not have enough output or the signal to noise ratio is not so good. Under 2 ohms with outputs down to 0.2 mv I have no problems recommending transimpedance operation. That limits the number of cartridges that for certain will be satisfactory and they tend to be expensive ones at that. If you had to choose one to the other I would stick to Voltage mode. People interested in the Lino C 3.0, which is a Stereophile A+ phono stage right up there with the CH Precision, should get it with the optional Voltage mode input and I would also add the MM input. You will never need another phono stage.
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@rauliruegas The system is running fine. The MC Diamond and Soundsmith Hyperion MR sound better in voltage mode. The Lyra Atlas SL and MSL Signature Platinum sound better and have a better signal to noise ratio in transimpedance mode. I also believe Michael Fremer runs his Lyra transimpedance mode. I do believe that suggesting cartridges with an impedance less than 10 ohms are ok for transimpedance mode operation is overly optimistic. In my own experience transimpedance mode should be reserved for cartridges with an impedance below 2 ohms. Knowing this, I think anyone getting a transimpedance phono stage should either have the option to run the phono stage in voltage mode or also get a voltage mode phono stage. Channel D offers the option of adding a voltage mode card to the Lino C. My Seta comes standard with both and I can switch back and forth ABing the results.
The Jico SAS/B stylus will be here any day. I will give an opinion on its performance and post pictures of the stylus.
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@dogberry I think music is a separate issue almost entirely. I can enjoy music on a transistor radio. Being an audiophile is about the sound for which there are innumerable definitions. For me it is recreating the live performance on my audiophile system. My shop system on the other hand is only about volume, but that system is in use most of the time.
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@lalitk You do not want me to answer that question.
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In that case I would get a Sota Sapphire, Kuzma 4 point 9, Channel D Lino C loaded and an Air Tight Opus One or Lyra Atlas SL
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@lalitk 30K gets you an awfully fine phono stage and cartridge. With that kind of money I would get a loaded Channel S Lino C 3.0. and an Air Tight Opus 1 or a Lyra Atlas SL or maybe even an Ortofon MC Diamond.
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Steve Gutenberg is a mid Fi guy which is a good thing. He reviews equipment that most of us can buy. He prefers a more romantic, bloomy sound. The Zesto phono stage is a great example using four 12AX7s. I understand the leaning towards SUTs and I have heard some great systems utilizing SUTs. I also prefer simpler gear with fewer switches and connections. My favorite phono stage for two decades was the AR PH3-SE with RAM ultra low noise 6922s. It was killer with MM cartridges but did not have enough gain for most MC cartridges. I tried it with SUTs but always preferred the sound with high output cartridges. I have to point out that it is highly likely that a cartridge like the Soundsmith Voice will outperform a MC/SUT combination. It will be more dynamic and have a vastly superior signal to noise ratio. The situation does not tilt towards high gain phono stages and MC cartridges until you are spending in the vicinity upwards of $15,000 and most of us are not spending that much.
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@lalitk That is true. Now I am going to be politically incorrect. You have to look at the demographics. Many of us have tube preamps with an onboard MM phono stage. Most of us are price sensitive and we are going to take the least expensive path that is acceptable. The popularity of Hana moving coil cartridges is a good example. Adding an SUT is the least expensive way to add moving coil capability. Having said this there are some mighty expensive SUTs out there and I have heard some mighty fine systems using them with great results. I still think these systems would be even better with a SS phono stage, but you are talking much more money and in some cases crazy amounts of money. There are units now like the Channel D Lino C 3.0 which are insanely good, A+ good, that cost less than $5000 and they will accept any MC cartridge. SUTs will not. They have to be designed for the impedance of the cartridge within just a few ohms or the performance will be unacceptable. The SUT I have was designed for very low impedance cartridges. Mine works well with the Lyra Atlas SL but sounds awful with the MC Diamond and Hyperion MR. The safest way to go is to purchase SUTs made by the same manufacturer as the cartridge and if you go with a cartridge by another manufacturer make sure they match within a few ohms. This is not the the step up ratio, 1 to 10, 1-20 and so forth.
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@rauliruegas don't forget Constellation!
@dogberry I have several BluRay and DVD operas and my system doubles as a theater. Believe it or not, excepting rare theaters like Teatro alla Scala Milano, I actually prefer the sound at home. This is a common occurrence with Rock shows. The acoustics in most of the venues these occur in are awful and the sound at home is better. Seeing the show and the Opera especially are key. Operas and plays were that period's motion pictures, the visuals are very important. You know for certain Carman was just murdered by her lover when you see it. What torments Pagliacci so at the end of the opera?
@lalitk Be careful what you wish for. It would be nice if you could make that comparison before spending your money. There are many of us here that not only won't use a SUT but also shy away from tube phono stages. Myself and @rauliruegas are examples. Perhaps others will chime in.
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@mdalton Lamborghini is a tractor company. It should be agricultural blue.
There is no question in my mind that active phono stages are superior in every way. They are much less finicky in terms of placement, are quieter, have more gain and are more dynamic. Other sonic qualities are subjective but to my ears they also sound better and image better.
Missing from Lew's list are;
The CH Precision P1 and P10
The Channel D Seta and Lino stages.
Audio Research.
McIntosh
VAC
It is much easier to make a transformer. I even made my own using top of the line Sowter cans. I could never make an active phono stage. I have placed Sowter cans inside preamps with MM phono stages with decent, but not spectacular results.
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@rauliruegas You know me. I will look at that stylus under high mag and If I do not like it, away it goes. I will post pictures on Imgur along with the others.
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@dover Nice picture @rauliruegas the SAS is a micro ridge design. I have a micro ridge stylus on my Hyperion. The Shure variant was probably cut differently. Todays laser profilers are better than anything they had back then. I will get the SAS boron version which is $150 less than the tapered ruby version.
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@lalitk I am way in on musicality, but it should rest with the music.
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@lalitk I know Raul really well. His English is not so hot and at times he comes across as a bit odd. He is anything but narcissistic and his knowledge of cartridges is unsurpassed.
I for one do not like equipment editorializing. I want to know exactly what is on the record and nothing else. On the very best systems colored equipment always shows itself as flawed. Sometimes these flaws can be corrected, most of the time not. Very few cartridges are perfect so we are stuck choosing our poison especially when we are spending less than $6000.
I have had SUTs and both SS and tube phono stages. IMHO, and I am sure @rauliruegas will agree. The best SS phono stages are the most uncolored and quiet of the lot. Check out units from Sutherland, Channel D, CH Precision and Pass labs.
People are entitled to listen to whatever they want, but in my experience when presented with an accurate system capable of realistic levels without distortion and bass to match, all are in awe.
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@rauliruegas I know your preference for Boron and diamond cantilevers and I own both types of cantilever along with a cactus spine one. On a lark I purchased two Shure V15V bodies which were sold originally with MR styluses. Jico makes several stylus assemblies for this cartridge. Their most expensive is a Gyger S style stylus with a tapered ruby cantilever. They also offer the same stylus with a Boron cantilever for almost $200 less. The original cantilever was beryllium which due to its carcinogenic nature is no longer available. What do you think?
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@pindac Good luck to you Sir in all your endeavors.
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@dover The Sowter transformers are a little bit larger than a golf ball and weight a few ounces, maybe 5 or 6. If I had known weight was so important I would have weighed them before I glued them to the permalloy.
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My SUT only weighs 5 lb :-(
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I built my own SUT specifically for very low impedance cartridges. It started off as a nifty science project and initial results were pretty bad. I tossed it in a corner. A year later my phono stage had to go back to the factory for repair, so I dug out the transformer and started experimenting with different ground patterns and physical locations. My new digital preamp has a high output phono stage built in. The SUT has XLR inputs and the output ICs are one foot long and wired directly into the SUT. The case is made up of exotic hardwoods lined 100% with permalloy. After a few wiring iterations I finally obtained a very acceptable signal to noise ratio and very acceptable performance with one cartridge, the Altas SL. My others were awful. The lesson being that a SUT has to be designed for a specific type of cartridge, in this case very low impedance cartridges under 2 ohms. The sound is super detailed with excellent imaging. It is not quite as dynamic and vibrant as my Seta L phono stage. How much of this is due to the DEQX's phono stage I can not tell, but I have to say I am pleasantly surprised at the performance. I should also mention that the actual transformers are made by Sowter in England. The pair cost a whopping $400.
@pindac Atma-Sphere is an electronics engineer and his opinions are stated as such. He is a lousy sales person and insinuating he is acting as one is a slap in the face.
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