Dear Andromeda,
I had the Nagra but only for a short while. Maybe I sold too early but I had the impression it didn't reach to my Kondos (M 7) and my Lamm. This was before I improved the Lamm. Of course you need to wait until all new parts and caps are running smooth but I was a bit dissapointed with the tiny Nagra's SUTs and to my knowledge they also changed something on the design later on. |
Coincident Statement Phono Stage. Astonishing!
From an ex-owner of Aesthetix, Manley, K&K and Walker reference phono stages, to name a few. |
Goatwuss,
When you compared the Basis and PS Audio GCPH, did you run the same loading on the cartidge for both preamps? I know the GCPH has a number of loading options, and the sound can change dramatically depending on the cartridge. What loading did you use when comparing the two and what cartridge? |
I am intrigued about the statement made regarding the coincident, I would like to hear more about this stage. Anyone else hear it???? Comments. |
Now after having posted here about 3 to 4 years ago, I still would say Zanden and Wavac. Having been thus so spoiled, everything else left me dissapointed. |
I've owned the Atmasphere MP3,the PHD, and now the Steelhead.
All very good at what they do, and better than all of the built in phono stages on older preamps that I owned like the Premier two, Audible Illusions 3a,Sonic Frontiers slp1,and even the original Levisnon JC 2 that I felt was the only SS phono stage that was decent in a preamp.
I've listened to my friends Nagra phono stage and felt it was also quite appealing, but I never owned one or used it in my system.
There are lots of choices and designs, and IMOP any of the aforementioned phono stages in this thread would be a great asset to any vinyl set up.
But flexibilty if you contemplate swapping cartridges, can narrow the search,so features matter. |
I have just acquired an Audia Flight Phono stage and, boy, is it good. Vocalists are now front and square in the room with you and musicians are clearly defined by their location in the expanded sound stage. First time ever the bass has rattled my windows. This Phono stage really digs deep and sounds not heard previously with the same clarity can startle. It is also built like a tank and oozes quality. Many hundreds of pleasant hours ahead becoming re-acquainted with my vinyl collection. Check it out. |
"Goatwuss,
When you compared the Basis and PS Audio GCPH, did you run the same loading on the cartidge for both preamps? I know the GCPH has a number of loading options, and the sound can change dramatically depending on the cartridge. What loading did you use when comparing the two and what cartridge?"
Yes, I used the same loading. 100 ohms on my Audio Technica AT33-PTG |
I'm extremely happy with mine. I had Joe Fratus do the updates last year and that made it a little more transparent which works well with my system. |
Sorry, it's an Art Audio Vinyl One. |
I have owned several High end Phono stages and the one that stands above all the rest, EAR, Tom Evans, Conrad Johnson and a couple of others not worth mentioning is The Manley Steelhead. Most incredible phono stage I have ever owned. Plus it can double as a pre-amp. Built like a tank with more adjustments than you can shake your fist at. It will handle any cartridge. Its expensinve but it will be the last phono stage you will ever have to buy. |
Another vote for the steelhead, vastly improved by installation of a pair of siements CCa 6922 tubes. It creams everything else I have tried including an early Sim stage, a VAT BK 10 and a joule lap 150. I haven't tried any of the other wonderful products mentioned in this thread but the fact that I haven't wanted to speaks to how highly I regard my steelhead. |
FWIW, prior to my current setup I had an EAR 324 which I thought was very, very good. I now have a better phono stage - the on board phono in my Berning Zotl One pre. I haven't tried it yet, but the pre has the facilities to be powered by a 12v battery. Owners who have tried it report that it's slightly quieter in comparison. |
Who own's an FM Acoustics phono stage ? If so, what about the model that de-clicks/de-crackles ? Can it actually do it w/o any sonic degradation ? (Resolution Series 223 PhonoMaster)
Resolution Series 222-MKIII
Resolution Series FM 122 MKII
How much are these guys ($$$) ?
Are they the state of the art, bar none ? |
Check Audiogon for sale ads. You're already here, so why not? I think the FM122 (maybe the same unit each time) is regularly available used for $7000. Were it not so expensive, I might have bought one myself by now. The adjustability is very alluring. However, I have no idea whether it sounds good, or not. The 222 is even higher end, I think. |
Thanks Lewm..interestingly (while at work)I can view and post in the discussion forum but the buy sell area is inaccessible(websensed)...go figure. I like getting paid researching audio gear while at work so that at home (on my dime), I can spend more time listening...LOL
I am trying to narrow my ref phono stage candidates down. The contenders:
FM Acoustics
Manley Steelhead
Pass Labs XP-25 |
Looking at the intro FM Acoustics model on a couple of 4 sale ads, I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed at the power supply...nothing more than a plastic DC black box attached to a rudimentary lamp power cord. Very disappointing for $10K.
I suppose the Allnic Reference H-3000 must be considered too. I nicely priced used one is for sale here.
Decisions..... |
I sold my Allnic H-3000 to move to the Whest Audio MC REF V MK4. The Whest is SOOO much better! The Allnic is just far too smooth like the other phono units in their range.
I suppose if you are into tubes it's a good buy, but it 'covers' over too much for my liking. I like a more realistic sound - wanna hear everything. I wrote a mini-review of the MC REF V Mk4 here a while back. I still haven't heard anything as good. I heard some very 'romantic' units but none so revealing.
Apparently the US distributor has been dropped and you can now buy Whest Audio direct with a full 5 year warranty. Best part...you can buy the B-graded units in 115vac! It was one of the things that I wanted to do when I was living in CA. |
07-14-11: Dcarol
I sold my Allnic H-3000 to move to the Whest Audio MC REF V MK4. The Whest is SOOO much better! The Allnic is just far too smooth like the other phono units in their range.
Hi Dcarol. That is a most interesting SS option. I see elusivedisc has them in stock...$20K...yowsa...pretty pricey. I do wonder how it stacks up against Pass Labs XP-25 which is close to half the price...I saw your mini review here: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1292086567 Definately food for thought, but I don't see how a demo would be possible. Not sure I have the stomach to drop $20K w/o hearing on in my system first. Thanks for your input. Chris |
I don't often participate in these forums, but would like to weigh in on the comments made by fellow Audiogoners, on the AMR PH-77
I purchased it late last year, and had many wonderful listening sessions with it. To say that an AMR product is "mechanical" is not entirely correct, as the entire Reference 77 range has one of the most natural tones I can find in the market
But, Karelfd said it best, that the decisive decision to buy anything is the fit into your own system
I am happy to say that the PH-77 fitted into my system like a glove, and I have 3D images in rock solid positions, while still producing the fluid continuity that tubes are best for ... rock on ... this is definitely a keeper |
The PS Audio GCPH is a great performer for the money. I performed some minor mods by encasing the toroidal transformer with a 1-1/2" strip of lead and gluing small strips of lead on any IC's and caps.
Very quiet with my Audio Technica 33EV MC cart. The balanced XLR's sound better than unbalanced. |
I have owned the Einstein The Turntable's Choice phono stage for the last four years and have been quite happy with it. It easily beat both the hotrodded Vendetta SCP2T and the Blowtorch which I had previously owned. About two years ago, I began to hear rumblings about a phonostage from a Greek company Ypsilon, the VPS-100. About a year ago, there was an extremely positive review by Michael Fremer. Again, I am a fossil and tend to move very slowly on these things. Last night, a friend helped me install the VPS-100 in my system. It is seldom that when you install a new piece the improvement is so major as to be instantly obvious even when the unit is cold. This is by far the best phonostage that I have heard by quite a wide margin. For context, I use a Rockport Sirius with an Ortofon A90. |
I replaced a PSA GCPH with an EAR 324 (both run balanced-out). While it's true that the former is nice for the money, it's also true that the difference in price for the latter is an accurate reflection of the improvement in sound. |
The Experience Music Kahn LCR phono stage is the best I've ever heard. |
As good as the EAR 324 is, the Einstein Turntable's Choice beats it. It is close to hearing "nothing" from the phono. But you need to leave the Einstein warmed up for a couple of days at least to get its full potential. |
I had the latest Steelhead and a PSA GCPH in my studio for several months. One gripe about the Steelhead is that MC cartridges sound a little sweeter with better high end definition though the MM inputs, but lose a little low end punch. I tried to get a combination of the MM input highs and the MC input lows but it didn't seem to be possible despite trying every setting on the unit. Routing the variable outputs back into the pre-amp inputs helped, but the low end was still slightly lacking. The PSA, although not quite as liquid as the Manley, sounded 98% as good in most instances and actually has more cohesive imaging, at least with my system. I sold the Manley and kept the PSA with no regrets. |
Duanedam: I have no experience with the Steelhead, but based on comparisons I've read between it and the EAR 324, I'm surprised, to say the least, that you felt the GCPH is that close to the Steelhead, particularly with an MC cart. (I found the GCPH to sound best on its lowest input gain setting.) That 98% comparison, plus your dissatisfaction with the bass, makes me wonder whether the tubes in your Steelhead may have been subpar or past their prime, because in my system the GCPH didn't come near that close to the 324 -- especially regarding the bass, and likewise for dynamics, textural purity, and transparency of natural tonality and fine detail resolution. (I would agree, however, that the PSA comes somewhat closer in the imaging department, and I still feel it's a nice 'stage for the money.) |
My ASR Mini Basis Exclusive sounds about 50% better than the PS Audio GCPH that I used to own. Much more open and liquid midrange, removes the layer of grain, more dynamic, more clear |
Hi Jazdoc,
Can you tell us more about your Experience Music Kahn LCR phono stage? What kind of gain? Is it using built in step up transformers? How much does it cost? etc.
Thanks!! |
No-regrets,
Sorry for the slow response.
What can I add? It's the best I've ever heard and it ain't even that close for second. One of the best things about ordering from Jeffrey and Dave is the ability to customize. The SUTs are built-in and Dave's SUTs are killer; wound to your cartridge's spec. Mine was delivered almost a year ago, so you'd have to contact Jeffrey about current pricing.
www.jeffreywjackson.com
Feel free to PM |
I usually don't count very much on the recommendation of magazine writers anymore but in the last "Image Hifi" in Germany the Kondo M7 Phono paired with the SUT Kondo KSL was described in detail coming along with wonderful images (you might see the quality of images on the Tubes Edition of Hifi Tunes in English for iPAD).
And the writer in this case is completely right: This is absolutely the most musical phono preamp combo I have ever experienced.
best @ fun only |
Thuchan , have you ever compared/heard the Convergent legend pre/phono? |
Andromedaaudio, not yet but heard only good things about the Convergent. Will try listening to a unit.
best @ fun only |
Thuchan,
A freind has a Da Vinci Grandezza 12" / Kondo IO-M / Kondo Step Up Transformer / Kondo M7 Phono set-up using a Verdier La Platine Vintage table, sounds nice but I prefer two others.
#1 12" REED/My Sonic Lab Ultra Emiment BC/FM Acoustics FM-122 Mk II phono set-up on the same Verdier table
and
#2 Shroeder/Olympos/Ensemble Fonobrio phono set-up with a TW AC table.
The later two which seem to offer more similarities than differences. |
Dev,
okay when it comes to a full chain your two preferences are good benchmarks. My favourite at the moment is:
Continuum Copperhead/Olympos/EMT JPA66/Micro Seiki 8000
best @ fun only |
Thuchan,
sweet pces, x-mas is right around the corner and I can provide you with my address, I'll even pay for the shipping cost ha! ha!
I know of the other pces but not the EMT JPA66 so I just looked it up. |
Dev,
Xmas is always. what present are you making yourself...
best @ fun always |
Speaking of the holidays, I'm going from a surprising good little NAD PP2i to a Ear 834P. I found the sound from the NAD using a Denon 103R/TNT MkI to be decent but lacking the "spirit" and low end response which I could hear using an Lazarus preamp. Of course the Lazarus was not MC compatible w/low gain and noise, (though it was a cascode amp with two 12AT7 and two 12AX7). This move should provide a decent MC tube preamp experience with the noted front end. I do like the sound from FETs amp circuits (low noise/great dynamics), and believe I will be headed to some type of SUT/FET/tube preamp setup, but hope the EAR will hold my interest for a little while. It great to get back into vinyl! |
The ALLIC H3000 and new H3000V even better,used to test our turntables. Natural, perfect toneality, fast and dynamic and extremely reliable with 2 MM and 2MC inputs for maximum flexibility and running 4 tables is nice.
Adjustable for all cartridges MM or MC.
PS:GEM turntable review
http://dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=952 |
Nothing worse than a shameless manufacturer shilling his own product and then also endorsing a product he sells without a disclosure.
Real canadian bacon. |
I do not sell ALLNIC Bill - Hammertone does I am just a user of the products!
I would like some one to stop this individual and the like from ruining Audiogon forums.
Is there anyone listening?
Does any one else agree? |
I recently (3 months ago) bought the new Doge "Clarity" preamp which has it's own phono section. I use the MM section coupled to a Ypsilon SUT. To me this is a ourstanding phono section. Very quiet with great prat, dynamics and nuance. Indeed the SUT costs more than the preamp, but vinyl front ends are always dear.
I also had the chance to listen to the Ypsilon phono pre through the Doge linestage (even better than the onboard phono). The Ypsilon is in a league of it's own but I really believe a big part of it's strength is the SUT. The main difference I experienced was the lowest sound floor I have EVER experienced! This is not a small point. It is a truly superior product,albeit a very expensive one.
If anyone is looking for a top notch SUT, the Ypsilon should be considered.
e |
Ttweights, Audiofeil is just keeping you on your toes. Don't take it personal. |
I feel like at the level of phono stage we are all talking about here, it's more about system matching than what is "the best." My system is a little on the dark side and I've used many tube phono stages and now I'm finding that a solid state phono stage is really better for me. Helps the overall balance. ASR Basis Exclusive on the way. Looking forward to it being my "final" phono stage. |
IMHO
I don't understand why anyone would have tube power amps, tube preamp and "settle" for a SS phono preamp.
Matching |
My system is a little on the dark side and I've used many tube phono stages and now I'm finding that a solid state phono stage is really better for me. Helps the overall balance. A classic example of applying a band-aid instead of addressing the problem at its source. That's not the path to high fidelity IME, certainly not at the performance level this thread is about. If a system is a little on the dark side don't paper over the problem, identify which components make it dark and correct or replace them. It's impossible to counterbalance the distortions of one component by introducing distortions in another. In a sufficiently revealing system all you'll hear are the competing distortions. Make each component as neutral as possible. That's what the best preamps or the best anything seek to do. Harrumph! ;) |
Make each component as neutral as possible. That's what the best preamps or the best anything seek to do I agree, base a system on its strengths rather than using the weakness in one component to counteract the weaknesses in another! |
if it hasn't been mentioned yet.... Pass Labs XP-25, definately a stand out phono stage. |
Rockitman, a strong second on that. It ain't cheap but a steal for what it does |
My full vote goes to the Whest ps0.30rdt. It is so natural sounding yet preserving all the details with no lack in dynamics and musicality. My next upgrade will definitely be the SE. MC Ref V will be a dream come thru but I can sure live with the SE for the rest of my sonic life. |
