Speakers that will bring me down to me knees crying with joy
Ok, so I had to write something ordinary in the title, but it´s really what I want. I live in Sweden and here we have a few really good Hi-Fi dealers which can offer great brands, but not everything is available. I´ve taken a break from this hobby the last 2-3years so I´m not up to speed on every new set of speakers.
What I have listened to in the past:
TAD Reference One - Really awesome speaker, it was paired up with TAD´s electronic and I found the sound a bit cold, just a bit.
Giya G1 - I can´t get past the design 100% but the sound was good, but the setup might not have been the best or optimal for me. However I could see wanting to listen to them again in a different setup if possible.
Raidho D3 and D5 - Now this is the speakerbrand is, together with Sonus Faber Cremona M, that made the best emotionally connection with me. I was actually visiting Raidhos factory in Denmark with a dealer who brought me there. The sound from the D5 were super awesome, but they are very hard to get by used, but they could be the best speakers I´ve heard.
Focal diablo - Really awesome little speaker; sounded really good, I would like to hear the new speakers from Focal.
B&W 800D - Paired up with classe electronics; I found them pretty good, but it was too long ago when I heard them.
Magico S5 - I really really wanted to love this speaker, it looked so perfect 2x10" etc. it was paired up with electronics from Devialet. I experienced the sound to be too cold for me, could have been the room which was very small and weird.
## So what is important for me; well emotions emotions emotions; I want to feel something when listen to music; if we´re talking about chosing a "colorless" speaker and pair it up with tubes" or chose a speaker like Sonus Faber use to be, made everything sound lush, then the first option might suite me the best. I don´t want a ruthless system that make 65% of CD´s sound like shit because they are extremely analyzing. This is what I find the hardest to balance. But I like my music loud and I´m mostly looking a bigger speakers because I want that BIG sound which can bring me to my knees I want to be overwhelmed and washed with sounds. I have all my music in FLAC / WAV.
What is your price range? Just off the cuff based on the speakers you listed above, the speakers that I find come closest to meeting your stated goal of "emotions emotions emotions" plus "BIG sound which can bring me to my knees I want to be overwhelmed and washed with sounds" (without going into the true megabuck realm) are the Tidal Audio Agoria or Contriva Diacera G2. Given your stated preferences, I would also check out the Evolution Acoustics MM3. Finally, while I do not have much direct experience with these, I have heard from others that the Rockport Aviors can be emotionally involving, yet provide a big sound as well.
I am certainly not a cheerleader for Magico, but am a little surprised by your experience with the S5's (as I agree with your comments on, e.g., the TAD). Maybe the Devialet is not a great pairing, or the room made a difference as you suspect - the Magico S series can sound quite warm with the right amplifier pairing.
We are in complete agreement. Almost all of the speakers I really like are either vintage or old school when it comes to the woofers--pulp paper cone woofers, particularly drivers with pleated fabric surrounds. I particularly don't like the metal and ceramic coned drivers.
Try old school speakers pulp paper and fabric drivers. You seem too focused on technologically advanced speakers that perform well on paper using rigid drivers.
rigid drivers have great performance on frequency response bandwidth (technical) but they lack internal inherent damping in the transducers themselves which leads to resonances that affect timbre and artifacts that are often clearly visible on a waterfall plot.
The pursuit of frequency response alone has resulted in a bunch of technically excellent but emotionally uninvolving speakers. Half of the emotional connection in music is what you don't hear - the subtleties.
the_spaniard, I have heard the speakers you have listed with different electronics. I did like them all but the speaker that brought to my knees crying is the KEF BLADE.
We, as "audiophiles" know better than others perhaps, that there are two things at work here.
One: The Music Two: The Gear For me, it's primarily about the music, although I've gotten enormous enjoyment from fiddling with my "high-end" components over the years. I appreciate the improvements or at least the changes, that I can make in my system, especially those of the DIY nature. Tube rolling is fun. I appreciate that I can still hear differences now that I'm far from being a kid. But I don't think I could ever attribute being moved emotionally to any single piece or combination of components.
My Sonus Faber Monitors sound different than my Magnepan MMGs. I'm also curious about how other speakers would sound in my home. BUT:
The emotional aspect has everything to do with my mood and what's playing, and very little with my gear.
ps , I hear you and have been there and done that but try this, Stop your car and open the door next time you're carried away and you get an idea the closed space is what makes that 2 bucks a pop car speaker sound so good .
I don't EVER expect a system, much less any specific component, to be so radically special that I would have such a reaction. Also, when one has heard a lot of different systems, it is particularly rare that any one system would be that dramatically different. But, I have been, on a few occasions, astonished by how good certain systems sound. I heard a giant, horn-based system that cost well north of $1 million in a home system that was really quite special; the dedicated room was quite large (I would guess at least 25 by 60 ft). Another great system I heard at a show featured three Wilson (Alexandria?) speakers as front channels and two MAXX speakers as back channels playing in a large conference room.
I have also been quite surprised by something new that I did not expect to hear and like so much. One that comes to mind is an open baffle system using a full-range Jensen M-10 fieldcoil driver (13") as a mid/bass driver and a tweeter that covered only the very highest frequencies. I had never heard what is essentially a full-range driver that sounded so good (no rough or peaky sound like Lowthers). I am also amazed by the tiny (and expensive) Raidho speakers--they sound very good at modest volume levels.
I have had one or two people tear up hearing the systems I build. However, I do not tend to get weepy when I hear something fabulous. If there are lyrics I tend to sing along. I can tell when I'm enthralled when I sing with my favorite artists. :)
I picked up a pair of Tannoy DC4 bookshelfs 3 years ago, and they've become my favorites. Very nice midrange and they image like crazy. Maybe I should get a pair of DC8's or something...
Why cant people think beyond B&W, Focal and Magico ? They all have a standard sound which is neither bad nor special!
What about Cessaro horns, Avant Garde Trio Omega, Tannoy GRF and so many more speakers like them which sound way more passionate than academic. And yes they are accurate too if that is something someone wants to debate. Many of them are used in studios of the highest order.
Most of the speakers being discussed are way over my budget but you gotta love this thread title! Way better than the other one called, "Speakers that are very accurate sounding but don't produce an emotional connection". Maybe it's just me…:)
I've been trying to figure out what's bugging me about my system. After reading some of this thread, it might well be that the electronics are overly analytical. What do you think, Parasound A21 and P7 for 2 channel with an Oppo 95 and Paradigm Signature S6 v2. The speakers were reviewed several years ago on the audioholics website, and were found to be somewhat laid back. Cables are Morrow Audio MA3 and Audioquest Type 4. Apparently the Type 4 is warm too.
I've recently considered selling it all and starting over(keeping the speakers) with a NAD C375BEE. I think I definitely think the system is too laid back, the highs are rolled off too much, not sure what to do. Like most of us with issues I guess.
Many years ago I was listening to the Sibelius Symphony #5 on the factory audio system in our 1985 Toyota Supra. The performance brought tears to my eyes.
That was a valuable experience because it made me acutely aware of how much more important the music is rather than the hardware.
My home audio system is many orders of magnitude better than what was in the Supra. I love the system, and am fortunate to have it, but, for me, it's still about the music.
upmix stereo to 5 channel in a well setup room is the cheapest way to get there. You need to be really technical to be able to set it up yourself though.
At CES in the mid-90's I made the mistake of having Jerry Crosby play "No Time To Cry" by Iris Dement on his modified Quad ESL63's. When near the end of the song Iris sang "I bite down and swallow hard" (if you're familiar with the song you know how devastating it is), I couldn't hold back the tears, and made a complete fool of myself in front of Jerry. Not very professional! Luckily, it was only Jerry and I in the room.
How often have you fallen on your knees and cried with Joy? If it hasn't happened before its probably not going to happen .... that easily
Every time I go to Charney Audio in Somerset NJ I listen in amazement at what I'm hearing. I was there when a perspective buyer came by for a listen (I had stayed a lot longer than expected). Brian was good about it as long as I didn't interrupt the listening session. No problem with that! The guy put on a classical CD that I had never heard of. He sat and listened to the entire disc and not one word was spoken. His first comment was "That is some speaker!" He was walking around looking behind the Maestro to see how they are constructed and kept shaking his head in disbelief. All the while with a huge smile on his face. He continued to listen to various genre's of music over the next 2 hours. Still shaking his head and smiling through it! He went on about how much (50k+) he had in his system and how the Maestro set up was superior at about 1/4 the cost.
The listening system consisted of: Oppo BD95 - Charney 300b amp $6500 - Maestro $6500.00 full range single driver rear loaded horns constructed from the tractrix theory. The wires were standard supplied IC from and old CD player and Home Depot white lamp cord.
I've been around this hobby for a long time (almost 40yrs) and the Charney Audio horns amaze me every time. I urge anyone within a couple of hours from Somerset NJ to make an appointment and listen. Brian is very accommodating with no pressure to buy. His speakers "speak" for themselves!
missing data in your quest- 1. How big is your Room? 2. What are the upstream equipment? Pre/Amps, DAC, Digital player? 3. Ease of speaker placement? 4. How much are you willing to spend?
thoughts to consider- 1. A whole system approach rather than piecemeal speakers only. 2. Speakers and equipment that utilize the rules of sound perception. 3. Investigating dipole and Omni- speaker designs. 4. Considering horns and line array technology.
and finally...
How often have you fallen on your knees and cried with Joy? If it hasn't happened before its probably not going to happen .... that easily
If you're willing to look at electrostatics, the Martin Logan Montis or Summit X are really nice speakers and they convey the emotion of music very well. They are revealing and need good electronics.
ML has gotten the crossover from the bass cones to the panel right. I and the reviewers I have read can't hear the crossover, although I'm sure that someone can and that ML will improve on it further in the future.
To my ears, nothing approaches the realism of a really high efficiency speaker. The dynamics of something that’s 100db/1w/1m or better is unmatched by anything less efficient.
Moving lots of air is key. Mid-bass is where all the body is.
I agree with WAJ and have a pair of his ’A’ list speakers.
Fliz, i’m not an audio engineer, but from what I understand, higher efficiency speakers presents a lighter load to the amplifier, requiring less current and dynamic power from the amplifier, thus allowing even SET tube amps to drive more efficient speakers with impressive bass and dynamics.
I agree that the more difficult route is designing something like a Magico S5 mk2 which is a sealed box design using 2 x 10" bass drivers (equivolent to a 14.5" unit according to Martin Colloms). The two tens handle the low, mid & upper bass, crossing over to the midrange at about 200Hz - instead of one larger bass driver as used in many hybrid designs. The S5 Mk2’s moderate efficiency (89db @4ohms) suggests these speakers are still best matched with ss amps with robust power supplies & good current to control the speakers.
Stereophile define dynamic as "Giving an impression of wide dynamic range; punchy. This is related to system speed as well as to volume contrast". The S5 Mk2’s new 10" bass drivers have massive magnets which help saturate the structure around the coil which prevents eddy currents forming, which in concert with the lighter and stiffer hybrid carbon Nano-tube/Nano-graphene cone material should reduce distortion & improve dynamics.
Furthermore the excursion rate of the voice coil for the new 10" bass drivers is measured at 15 mm linear movement, twice as much as its predecessor. With the new model’s improvements to drivers, the cabinet & crossover, they should provide excellent sound staging, imaging & dynamics.
Magico speakers in general sound transparent and linear, though the S series are a bit more laid back in presentation than the Q series, sound a bit warmer & have fuller bass. The S5’s for example already have wonderful resolution and texture in the bass and midrange, but to get a sound which is harmonically rich and fluid, one just needs to choose their partnering amps, front end, cables & conditioner/wpo etc carefully. I’ve found Vitus Audio partners particularly well. Just saying there is more than one way to skin a cat ;).
Thanks fliz for an interesting link. I tend to like the high efficiency systems utilizing big drivers for the bass-midbass range and compression drivers for the midrange. Your link describes the sound of such systems quite well. I am surprised how infrequently one encounters such current production systems like the Edgarhorns, particularly when the price is not astronomical. Yes, Cogent drivers and Goto drivers are crazy in price, and G.I.P Laboratory drivers are not much cheaper, but, these current production drivers can deliver great sound if one is totally averse to using vintage drivers.
I actually like what many of the modern systems can do, particularly with respect to tonal accuracy and freedom from obvious coloration, but, so many ultimately have a cold, analytical quality that I have not heard effectively tamed. Whether it is the speaker itself, or the need for amps that can deliver more juice, I cannot say, but, the end result is a system that I cannot really love. I end up ultimately liking systems that I know have major deficiencies in certain areas (mostly horn-type peakiness), but deliver the low level dynamics, sense of scale, and harmonic saturation and fullness that rank high in my priorities. That is not to say that I have not enjoyed some great systems built around the likes of YG, Raidho and Bohlender Graebener speakers.
Well I think the responses show the high efficiency camp will never agree with those who like dynamic sealed box designs, and vice versa. I don’t personally agree with some of the discriptions used for dynamic speakers in this thread, but that’s just my view. It's like tubes vs ss, both camps are inherently biased. You'll never get a completely straight answer out of either, so the bottom line? Use your own ears & buy whatever floats your boat..
Cold, thin, sterile speakers don't make you cry (a number of suggestions here). If you really, truly want to be a crybaby go with high efficiency speakers and SE DHT 300B. Seek tone,harmonic rightness, texture, emotion, weight and fullness without losing or smearing transparency...
To my ears, nothing approaches the realism of a really high efficiency speaker. The dynamics of something that's 100db/1w/1m or better is unmatched by anything less efficient.
Moving lots of air is key. Mid-bass is where all the body is.
I agree with WAJ and have a pair of his 'A' list speakers.
wajonaudio.webs.com/The Ultimate Speakers are Within Reach.html
Taters, get real. You know as well as I do that labyrinth’s comments are at best ignorant, and at worst disingenuous and intended to white ant a manufacturer (Magico). Keith himself has stated several times in his TL thread he owns JBL L7 speakers which go for $500.00 on the used market. So that is fact. It is irrelevant whether he mentioned his speakers in this thread. It is entirely relevant however that members know what speakers he owns so his comments can be put into perspective. If you still disagree with me, our conversation is over.
"Magico’s latest speakers very much reflect the sound of the connected gear. They can sound average through magical depending on the upstream gear and cables they’re paired with. Vitus, Pass XS series and Soulution would fit the latter."
Same holds true with Raidho’s along with placement
Having heard Raidho speakers I agree with that view. The only issue I have with Raidho is I think they are way over-priced given their average build quality. I just don’t see the money in them. But I accept they may be secondary considerations to others.
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