Speakers that will bring me down to me knees crying with joy
Ok, so I had to write something ordinary in the title, but it´s really what I want. I live in Sweden and here we have a few really good Hi-Fi dealers which can offer great brands, but not everything is available. I´ve taken a break from this hobby the last 2-3years so I´m not up to speed on every new set of speakers.
What I have listened to in the past:
TAD Reference One - Really awesome speaker, it was paired up with TAD´s electronic and I found the sound a bit cold, just a bit.
Giya G1 - I can´t get past the design 100% but the sound was good, but the setup might not have been the best or optimal for me. However I could see wanting to listen to them again in a different setup if possible.
Raidho D3 and D5 - Now this is the speakerbrand is, together with Sonus Faber Cremona M, that made the best emotionally connection with me. I was actually visiting Raidhos factory in Denmark with a dealer who brought me there. The sound from the D5 were super awesome, but they are very hard to get by used, but they could be the best speakers I´ve heard.
Focal diablo - Really awesome little speaker; sounded really good, I would like to hear the new speakers from Focal.
B&W 800D - Paired up with classe electronics; I found them pretty good, but it was too long ago when I heard them.
Magico S5 - I really really wanted to love this speaker, it looked so perfect 2x10" etc. it was paired up with electronics from Devialet. I experienced the sound to be too cold for me, could have been the room which was very small and weird.
## So what is important for me; well emotions emotions emotions; I want to feel something when listen to music; if we´re talking about chosing a "colorless" speaker and pair it up with tubes" or chose a speaker like Sonus Faber use to be, made everything sound lush, then the first option might suite me the best. I don´t want a ruthless system that make 65% of CD´s sound like shit because they are extremely analyzing. This is what I find the hardest to balance. But I like my music loud and I´m mostly looking a bigger speakers because I want that BIG sound which can bring me to my knees I want to be overwhelmed and washed with sounds. I have all my music in FLAC / WAV.
I think your experience with the S5’s could be partly blamed on the Class D amps you used (Devaliet). I’m not a fan of them. The best synergy i’ve found with Magico for my ears is with Vitus Signature series gear. Soulution 7 series also pairs extremely well if you like that sound. For me, Vitus sounds organic and tube-like in presentation, but with plenty of control and resolution. Vitus gear is also ’forgiving’ and tames bright sounding speakers & their dacs make garden variety cd rips sound very musical.
To answer your question, based on your stated preferences..If you’re looking for a speaker which will bring your knees crying with joy, look for a pair of Magico M Projects and pair them with a Vitus SS-102, SL-102, SP-102 phono pre (if you run vinyl) & MP-D201 dac, some Siltech Royal Signature series cables & Stillpoints isolation. If the M Projects are beyond your reach or can’t be sourced, the new Magico S5 Mk2 or S7’s might be the answer depending on your budget and room size. FWIW, I just ordered a pair of the new S5 Mk2's & will be running them with Vitus Signature series gear.
the_spaniard - I know what you mean regarding the Raidho Diamond sound. I owned the D1's and now D2's (D3's are too big for my room). A friend has D3's and another has D5's. One thing I have to say is they don't sound as loud as they really are. I think it's because of the blackest background I've ever heard from a speaker. BTW the XT series is a lot closer to the diamond sound but not quite there compared to the X series. Like Magico's they need good clean power. and proper set up. I too like Magico's a lot but they just don't draw me into the music like Raidho's do.
A couple of other speakers I liked almost as good as the Raidho is YG and Polymer.
Hi Jwm, not directly. I heard a full Ypsilon system at the Melbourne Hifi Show and really enjoyed the sound. But how much of that came down to the superb Continuum Caliburn tt I can’t say. And not having heard those amps in a familiar room with familiar speakers, I haven’t got enough of a handle on the sound to compare the two brands. But if you mainly listen to digital, with all due respect to the Ypsilon Dac 100, I think the Vitus MP-D201 would have the wood on the Ypsilon, but that depends on your system and personal preferences. I believe the S7’s were paired with Ypsilon amps at the Warsaw Audio Show last month, however I couldn’t find any commentary on that room. But as I have often said, one should not rely on sub-optimal show conditions alone before drawing any conclusions.
In the end, much of this comes down to what gear you can access through your Dealer and whether you’re biased one way or the other toward tubed or ss gear. Then you have to look at how that gear synergizes with the rest of your system including the room.
The Magico S7 looks awesome and on paper is something I would love. 3x10" bass drivers just wow! I´m just a bit worried that they would sound thin, but that might be the amplifier. Too analytical, thin and bright is something I hate.
The Raidho D5 is MUCH more expensive and the driver to cost ratio is worse if I look at size only compared to S7. Then there is the "bass problem" that Raidho had with D3, which they fixed for their customers, but I see that they have some problems with D5 as well?! I can´t comment on that because I heard them at their factory for maybe 1h.
The Magico S7 looks awesome and on paper is something I would love. 3x10" bass drivers just wow! I´m just a bit worried that they would sound thin, but that might be the amplifier. Too analytical, thin and bright is something I hate.
The S5 Mk2’s use almost identical drivers, cabinet technology and x-overs to the S7’s, so they should sound similar. My pair are due to arrive in early February. Of course I will post my first impressions once their in situ & i've had a chance to sit down to a couple of long listening sessions.
Magico’s latest speakers very much reflect the sound of the connected gear. They can sound average through to magical depending on the upstream gear and cables they’re paired with. Vitus, Pass XS series and Soulution would fit the latter.
"Magico’s latest speakers very much reflect the sound of the connected
gear. They can sound average through magical depending on the
upstream gear and cables they’re paired with. Vitus, Pass XS series and
Soulution would fit the latter."
Same holds true with Raidho's along with placement
Have you heard harbeth? The speakers you are looking at are great hi fi speakers that need careful set up and matching to sound their best. But for what you describe you want harbeth comes to mind for me. Just my thoughts. Enjoy thecsearch.
That's interesting that you mention Habeths needs careful setup and system matching. I just read Paul Sydors review in the absolute sound that said system setup and associated gear are not that important to get Harbeths to sound great. In fact he said one thing great about the Harbeths is they are not fussy like Magico or Wilson. He went on to say if he quit reviewing equipment tomorrow he would be happy to have the Harbeths be his last speaker.
Consider the Charney Audio Concerto ($22,000) or Maestro ($6,500) with a quality 300b amplifier. I have listened to both of them at the 2015 NY Audio Show and at the manufacturers studio. They are a full range single driver Tractrix designed rear loaded horn.
Like you I'm an emotional listener and want to be "taken" to a different place. From the first note to the last I was completely engaged in the music. Every CD played was a new experience compared to my own system. I was completely transfixed and absorbed into the music for the time there.
Charney Audio is a new company run by an impassioned audiophile who has the same listening criteria we both enjoy.
I believe the Raidho Speaker's are your best bet, that's what I'm going to pursue, magico?, forget about them, they are cold sounding and unevolved! I listen to the q3 speaker's all the time, their better than the afterthought s series!
Taters - that was the point I was trying to make - harbeths have a nice sweet sound and aren't fussy whereas the speakers listed above require more attention to setup and associated equipment. Cheers
I agree with Audiolabrinth. I have heard Magico many times at shows and at my dealers showroom. I have heard them with top of the line solid state and tube gear. As much as I have wanted to like them I never have. I love the build quality of the speaker but that is about it. I
Tip: Make sure any speaker/system combination has been "cooking" 3-4 hours before making a listening judgment. I know I feel cold and stiff when I first wake up.
I believe the Raidho Speaker’s are your best bet, that’s what I’m going to pursue, magico?, forget about them, they are cold sounding and unevolved! I listen to the q3 speaker’s all the time, their better than the afterthought s series!
...and if you believe that commentary from a disingenous shill who owns $500.00 vintage speakers, you need your head read.
"Magico’s latest speakers very much reflect the sound of the connected gear. They can sound average through magical depending on the upstream gear and cables they’re paired with. Vitus, Pass XS series and Soulution would fit the latter."
Same holds true with Raidho’s along with placement
Having heard Raidho speakers I agree with that view. The only issue I have with Raidho is I think they are way over-priced given their average build quality. I just don’t see the money in them. But I accept they may be secondary considerations to others.
Taters, get real. You know as well as I do that labyrinth’s comments are at best ignorant, and at worst disingenuous and intended to white ant a manufacturer (Magico). Keith himself has stated several times in his TL thread he owns JBL L7 speakers which go for $500.00 on the used market. So that is fact. It is irrelevant whether he mentioned his speakers in this thread. It is entirely relevant however that members know what speakers he owns so his comments can be put into perspective. If you still disagree with me, our conversation is over.
To my ears, nothing approaches the realism of a really high efficiency speaker. The dynamics of something that's 100db/1w/1m or better is unmatched by anything less efficient.
Moving lots of air is key. Mid-bass is where all the body is.
I agree with WAJ and have a pair of his 'A' list speakers.
wajonaudio.webs.com/The Ultimate Speakers are Within Reach.html
Cold, thin, sterile speakers don't make you cry (a number of suggestions here). If you really, truly want to be a crybaby go with high efficiency speakers and SE DHT 300B. Seek tone,harmonic rightness, texture, emotion, weight and fullness without losing or smearing transparency...
Well I think the responses show the high efficiency camp will never agree with those who like dynamic sealed box designs, and vice versa. I don’t personally agree with some of the discriptions used for dynamic speakers in this thread, but that’s just my view. It's like tubes vs ss, both camps are inherently biased. You'll never get a completely straight answer out of either, so the bottom line? Use your own ears & buy whatever floats your boat..
Thanks fliz for an interesting link. I tend to like the high efficiency systems utilizing big drivers for the bass-midbass range and compression drivers for the midrange. Your link describes the sound of such systems quite well. I am surprised how infrequently one encounters such current production systems like the Edgarhorns, particularly when the price is not astronomical. Yes, Cogent drivers and Goto drivers are crazy in price, and G.I.P Laboratory drivers are not much cheaper, but, these current production drivers can deliver great sound if one is totally averse to using vintage drivers.
I actually like what many of the modern systems can do, particularly with respect to tonal accuracy and freedom from obvious coloration, but, so many ultimately have a cold, analytical quality that I have not heard effectively tamed. Whether it is the speaker itself, or the need for amps that can deliver more juice, I cannot say, but, the end result is a system that I cannot really love. I end up ultimately liking systems that I know have major deficiencies in certain areas (mostly horn-type peakiness), but deliver the low level dynamics, sense of scale, and harmonic saturation and fullness that rank high in my priorities. That is not to say that I have not enjoyed some great systems built around the likes of YG, Raidho and Bohlender Graebener speakers.
To my ears, nothing approaches the realism of a really high efficiency speaker. The dynamics of something that’s 100db/1w/1m or better is unmatched by anything less efficient.
Moving lots of air is key. Mid-bass is where all the body is.
I agree with WAJ and have a pair of his ’A’ list speakers.
Fliz, i’m not an audio engineer, but from what I understand, higher efficiency speakers presents a lighter load to the amplifier, requiring less current and dynamic power from the amplifier, thus allowing even SET tube amps to drive more efficient speakers with impressive bass and dynamics.
I agree that the more difficult route is designing something like a Magico S5 mk2 which is a sealed box design using 2 x 10" bass drivers (equivolent to a 14.5" unit according to Martin Colloms). The two tens handle the low, mid & upper bass, crossing over to the midrange at about 200Hz - instead of one larger bass driver as used in many hybrid designs. The S5 Mk2’s moderate efficiency (89db @4ohms) suggests these speakers are still best matched with ss amps with robust power supplies & good current to control the speakers.
Stereophile define dynamic as "Giving an impression of wide dynamic range; punchy. This is related to system speed as well as to volume contrast". The S5 Mk2’s new 10" bass drivers have massive magnets which help saturate the structure around the coil which prevents eddy currents forming, which in concert with the lighter and stiffer hybrid carbon Nano-tube/Nano-graphene cone material should reduce distortion & improve dynamics.
Furthermore the excursion rate of the voice coil for the new 10" bass drivers is measured at 15 mm linear movement, twice as much as its predecessor. With the new model’s improvements to drivers, the cabinet & crossover, they should provide excellent sound staging, imaging & dynamics.
Magico speakers in general sound transparent and linear, though the S series are a bit more laid back in presentation than the Q series, sound a bit warmer & have fuller bass. The S5’s for example already have wonderful resolution and texture in the bass and midrange, but to get a sound which is harmonically rich and fluid, one just needs to choose their partnering amps, front end, cables & conditioner/wpo etc carefully. I’ve found Vitus Audio partners particularly well. Just saying there is more than one way to skin a cat ;).
If you're willing to look at electrostatics, the Martin Logan Montis or Summit X are really nice speakers and they convey the emotion of music very well. They are revealing and need good electronics.
ML has gotten the crossover from the bass cones to the panel right. I and the reviewers I have read can't hear the crossover, although I'm sure that someone can and that ML will improve on it further in the future.
missing data in your quest- 1. How big is your Room? 2. What are the upstream equipment? Pre/Amps, DAC, Digital player? 3. Ease of speaker placement? 4. How much are you willing to spend?
thoughts to consider- 1. A whole system approach rather than piecemeal speakers only. 2. Speakers and equipment that utilize the rules of sound perception. 3. Investigating dipole and Omni- speaker designs. 4. Considering horns and line array technology.
and finally...
How often have you fallen on your knees and cried with Joy? If it hasn't happened before its probably not going to happen .... that easily
How often have you fallen on your knees and cried with Joy? If it hasn't happened before its probably not going to happen .... that easily
Every time I go to Charney Audio in Somerset NJ I listen in amazement at what I'm hearing. I was there when a perspective buyer came by for a listen (I had stayed a lot longer than expected). Brian was good about it as long as I didn't interrupt the listening session. No problem with that! The guy put on a classical CD that I had never heard of. He sat and listened to the entire disc and not one word was spoken. His first comment was "That is some speaker!" He was walking around looking behind the Maestro to see how they are constructed and kept shaking his head in disbelief. All the while with a huge smile on his face. He continued to listen to various genre's of music over the next 2 hours. Still shaking his head and smiling through it! He went on about how much (50k+) he had in his system and how the Maestro set up was superior at about 1/4 the cost.
The listening system consisted of: Oppo BD95 - Charney 300b amp $6500 - Maestro $6500.00 full range single driver rear loaded horns constructed from the tractrix theory. The wires were standard supplied IC from and old CD player and Home Depot white lamp cord.
I've been around this hobby for a long time (almost 40yrs) and the Charney Audio horns amaze me every time. I urge anyone within a couple of hours from Somerset NJ to make an appointment and listen. Brian is very accommodating with no pressure to buy. His speakers "speak" for themselves!
At CES in the mid-90's I made the mistake of having Jerry Crosby play "No Time To Cry" by Iris Dement on his modified Quad ESL63's. When near the end of the song Iris sang "I bite down and swallow hard" (if you're familiar with the song you know how devastating it is), I couldn't hold back the tears, and made a complete fool of myself in front of Jerry. Not very professional! Luckily, it was only Jerry and I in the room.
upmix stereo to 5 channel in a well setup room is the cheapest way to get there. You need to be really technical to be able to set it up yourself though.
Many years ago I was listening to the Sibelius Symphony #5 on the factory audio system in our 1985 Toyota Supra. The performance brought tears to my eyes.
That was a valuable experience because it made me acutely aware of how much more important the music is rather than the hardware.
My home audio system is many orders of magnitude better than what was in the Supra. I love the system, and am fortunate to have it, but, for me, it's still about the music.
Most of the speakers being discussed are way over my budget but you gotta love this thread title! Way better than the other one called, "Speakers that are very accurate sounding but don't produce an emotional connection". Maybe it's just me…:)
I've been trying to figure out what's bugging me about my system. After reading some of this thread, it might well be that the electronics are overly analytical. What do you think, Parasound A21 and P7 for 2 channel with an Oppo 95 and Paradigm Signature S6 v2. The speakers were reviewed several years ago on the audioholics website, and were found to be somewhat laid back. Cables are Morrow Audio MA3 and Audioquest Type 4. Apparently the Type 4 is warm too.
I've recently considered selling it all and starting over(keeping the speakers) with a NAD C375BEE. I think I definitely think the system is too laid back, the highs are rolled off too much, not sure what to do. Like most of us with issues I guess.
Why cant people think beyond B&W, Focal and Magico ? They all have a standard sound which is neither bad nor special!
What about Cessaro horns, Avant Garde Trio Omega, Tannoy GRF and so many more speakers like them which sound way more passionate than academic. And yes they are accurate too if that is something someone wants to debate. Many of them are used in studios of the highest order.
I picked up a pair of Tannoy DC4 bookshelfs 3 years ago, and they've become my favorites. Very nice midrange and they image like crazy. Maybe I should get a pair of DC8's or something...
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