I built an Elekit 8600 300b set amp recently. It's amazing. I maxed out upgrades (all Takman resistors, Mundorf top end caps, solder/wiring, etc.). It's a wonderful amp. It cost me $2k to build it and it's glorious.
My issue hasn't been the amp, but finding speakers that I want to use with it.
I started with Omega XRS 8 Juniors (~$2k). I broke them in for 300 hours and, while they did get better, they largely sounded like the top and bottom ends were just truncated off at both ends the sound spectrum. They sounded more akin to a transistor radio speaker. I feel terrible to say that and I hope others really love them and hear them differently, as the company is great and the owner is wonderful. They just weren't for me.
So, I just paired the 300b up with some inefficient speakers (both KEF LS50s and Wharfedale 80th anniversary Dentons). Both speakers were part of other systems I have. Both sets, and especially the cheaper Wharfedales, just sing with the 300b. They do not play particularly loud given their efficiency ratings, yet they sound wonderful for very close nearfield listening.
But what I'd like to do is go a bit more into the full range speaker category without buying a massive product. Or, I consider a smaller bookshelf/monitor if it were more efficient.
One aspect missing from this type of discussion (though no fault of atmasphere) is input from talented builders of successful SET amplifiers. Not to argue or necessarily disagree with atmasphere but to on an equal footing (As highly competent builders/designers) explain why SET can sound so "right" and pure.
This forum lacks this SET manufacturer perspective so as a result SET attributes are left to satisfied/happy owners (such as myself) to share their listening experiences. I can simply share what I hear versus other topologies (-subjective) but am not qualified to debate on engineering or technical grounds .
I wish The builder of my Coincident or the builders of for example Viva,Audion,Triode Corp, Tron, Wavelength and many others would post here and explain why SET are so capable with the right speakers. For what ever reason this doesn't occur. Charles
I've built 2 SET kits and am working on another that's not a kit--ground up build. I'm not an engineer and I'm still relatively new to this, but I think the SET toplogy also has another thing going for it--the signal doesn't have to crossover.
I think in a traditional push/pull design the signal has to be split into positive and negative because you have several tubes running one channel. That split has to be put back into one, which leads to a distortion (arguably). In my mind, I liken it to how digital breaks stuff up only to put it back together into an analog whole later on before it hits the listener.
The allure of SET is that it's simple, cleaner and more straightforward--arguably. That's supposed to result in a pureness that listeners like.
I cannot comment on whether SET v. PP produces more or less even/odd harmonics.
Thanks, jon...checking them out. Probably above what I'm prepared to budget (didn't know anything about their prices). Am interested in replies to jbhiller's post as I'm at least window shopping for something else to pair with a First Watt F7. Prelude Pluses working fine so don't ask why.
Re: First Watt F7, mine sounds wonderful with DeVore The Nines speakers, have yet to swap in the 2w decware superzen to compare because the F7 is so satisfying!
A SET on proper loudspeaker is wonderful and can yield incredible enjoyable sound but as others stated much care is needed when matching loudspeakers to such. Or one is just SETing themselves up for failure. I can run anything I have multiple systems I design audio. But for my own use I mostly run SET amplifiers and horns. The synergy of such for me can not be beat. These systems sound like real music in real space they are engaging non fatiguing when you listen to such you feel it in your soul. I have not heard this in even the most costly conventional audio systems.
My 100db Charney Audio Maestro's are powered by my CR Developments 300b amp. Fantastic rear loaded horn that will draw you in and keep you there till... Contact Brian at Charney and see if he can arrange a demo for you in your area.
The fatal weakness of so called circutron otl push pull power amp design is that the power grounding have to go through both legs‘ cathodes, thus power path mingle with the signal path, introducing distortion and noises. Furthermore, after some experiment, i found circutron push pull otl amps have very low damping factor, it produced worst sound when driving my quad 57 among all otl design amps. Atmosphere uses circutron design, so it has very high distortion and is terrible for driving difficult loads such as quad 57s. Transform coupled tube amplifiers on the other hand uses inductance to their advantages when driving difficult loads.
I am using an Audion 300b (7watts) with Spatial Audio M4s in a very large room. Fantastic sounding speaker, very stylish and amazing bass with no strain (never past 10oclock on volume) and these are not the triode version, which is more SET friendly. Spatials have a 60 day trial period. They do take a long while to Breakin. Replaced Maggies and equal to them in what Maggie’s do best and far superior in the areas that Maggie’s suffer. Of course I wasn’t using 7watts with the Maggie’s.
The fatal weakness of so called circutron otl push pull power amp design
is that the power grounding have to go through both legs‘ cathodes,
thus power path mingle with the signal path, introducing distortion and
noises. Furthermore, after some experiment, i found circutron push
pull otl amps have very low damping factor, it produced worst sound when
driving my quad 57 among all otl design amps. Atmosphere uses circutron design, so it has very high distortion and is terrible for driving difficult loads such as quad 57s. Transform coupled tube amplifiers on the other hand uses inductance to their advantages when driving difficult loads.
Obviously this person has not used our amps with Quads. We have a lot of Quad customers. The opening statement is false; you can literally run the amp with no filter caps and it will sound pretty decent. So the first paragraph is outright false.
The damping factor has entirely to do with the number and type of tubes involved, how they are driven, the power supply voltages and bias points, and finally how much negative feedback is employed, if any. We don't use any, and this resulting in an output impedance that is 1/2 that of other OTL output circuits running open loop. I regard the 2nd paragraph as highly misleading as it is apparent that whatever amp he used (if indeed he did use an OTL at all), it was not one of ours.
Our customers with Quads say its a match made in heaven. The 3rd paragraph is false but may be based on the premise of a homemade amp of some sort.
We get about 0.5% THD at full power with most of our designs- a bit lower with the larger amps, with about 0.04% or less IMD; not bad for zero feedback! Care must be taken to not accidentally ground the speaker terminals via the test equipment, else the distortion skyrockets. This is a **very** easy mistake to make. If byang12 really did try to measure the distortion of a circlotron OTL, its very likely he made this mistake. I've seen several respected magazines do it as well and I've done it myself.
Coherent Speakers from Canada. Give Frank Fazzalari a call or email....his speakers are amazing and I am using them with 300b and 2a3 ...sound is delicious and involving.
Just a quick caveat that you need a "beefier" SET to run the coincident pre's. I've tried it with coincident's own Frankensteins (7-8 watts) and they just can't control the bass. Two other owners and Israel himself all confirmed that the speakers really need 20-30 watts. Very disappointing for me given the company's marketing and my love of the amps. I'm trying to figure out whether to look for a new amp or new speakers.
I own the Coincident Statement Line Stage, Frankenstein 300b 8 watt mono blocks and their discontinued Total Eclipse II speakers. This is a very easy to drive speaker and matches very well with the Frankenstein.
The Pure Reference Extreme (PRE) speaker is better off with more than an 8 watt 300b. Not every Coincident speaker mates well with the Frankenstein and this point should be made clear on their website. It is a superb SET amplifier but only with an appropriate speaker load match.
IMO the PRE would be better matched with a good quality 845 or 805 output tube it one prefers a SET topology. High quality moderate power push pull tube amplifiers would also be a good choice. The Frankenstein is an exceptionally natural sounding amplifier with excellent purity, it deserves a proper speaker mate. I suspect that the Canadian Coherent Audio speaker would mate very well with the Frankenstein. Charles
Hi Cal, Which direction are you leaning toward, keeping the amp or speaker? Didn't you have a good match with your prior Coincident Super Eclipse? Charles
@charles1dad Still 6 months until I get my stereo back, so I have no idea. I do really enjoy the SEIIIs, but think I'm pushing them too hard in my space (21ft ceilings in an open floor plan). The PREs were definitely more precise, but I wasn't able to extract any bass with the Franks. The tweeters were "hotter" as well. Hopefully I'll get the chance to start figuring out what direction to go in August when I move back into my house. Money may be a bit tight though so I'm not sure I'll be able to pull off the full shootout I'd really like to do.
Having researched this issue myself now for quite a while, if I were running a SET and looking for good sounding HE speakers to match on a budget, that can play ANY kind of music well, Klipsch Heresy III, hands down, easy decision. These were originally designed for flea powered tubes amps of the day ~ 50 years ago and are still around (track record) and the latest versions I’ve heard sound wonderful, none of the bad things one often hears from audiophiles about high efficiency horns apply. See the various online reviews for more evidence of this.
Having researched this issue myself now for quite a while, if I were
running a SET and looking for good sounding HE speakers to match on a
budget, that can play ANY kind of music well, Klipsch Heresy III, hands
down, easy decision. These were originally designed for flea powered
tubes amps of the day ~ 50 years ago and are still around (track record)
and the latest versions I’ve heard sound wonderful, none of the bad
things one often hears from audiophiles about high efficiency horns
apply. See the various online reviews for more evidence of this.
The throat and overall shape of the horn is essential to it working properly; these days computer modeling should have sorted out any anomalies that caused by past errors in this part of the design. Thus modern horns should be as smooth and revealing as any other speaker technology.
Mapman, Interesting recommendation of the Klipsch Hersey. Wolf Garcia has waxed poetically on this forum about this speaker and how well it has mated with his low watt Had SEP amplifier. I tend to get the impression that it provides suitable refinement and tonality (I haven’t heard it).
It seems it would be a possible competitor to the Tekton Double Impact which I have heard with my SET amplifier. It was a very good sounding match. I can attest to the fact that it was easily driven by my 8 watt amplifier. Charles
Charles I have only heard it so far at a dealer off a decent quality A/V receiver and was very impressed with that. These are very versatile and affordable speakers with a long and strong track record. The hifi magazine reviewers even seem to reach that same conclusion these days.
They are top contenders for next speaker to try with my 60 w/ch Class D digital amp. Their versatility to go different ways down the road as needed is a big plus.
I heard the double impacts at CAF last year off a very good quality 10 w/ch tube amp and liked what I heard. Those are much bigger with a different aesthetic and a bit more costly perhaps.
For bass extension, you might want to add a sub with Heresy whereas less likely with double impact.
However, large speakers with bass extension are usually much harder to get set up just right for best possible bass in many rooms. I tend to like the smaller speaker + sub approach better for that, especially when low power main amps are in play in larger rooms. The Tekton room at CAF was not large, about the size of your typical Marriot hotel room.
Both very viable choices I would say. It all depends.
Mapman, I appreciate your comments. The Hersey is a modest size speaker, did you here it on speaker stands or placed on the floor with its risers that allows tilt back? Given their short height does the sound stage seem lower(floor level) or was the perception in line with typical floor standing speakers? Charles
On floor on the tilted risers, close to front corners of the room.
A tad lower overall perhaps but not necessarily less realistic sounding than otherwise.
I use similar low profile stands with tilt (IsoAcoustics) with my smaller monitors in some rooms in my house already, as well as ear level stands in others. Both can work fine. Like most things in hifi it all depends.
With the Heresy low riser stands (not isolating as far as I know) floor interactions fattening the bass and obscuring detail might be a issue in some cases, like with many floor standers and even some monitors with stands and common suspended plywood floors, but an isolation platform underneath the risers would easily take care of that, like with a subwoofer, if needed. This did not seem to be an issue in the dealer's showroom however.
You might be wondering what is so heretical about the $1700 Heresy III, the most affordable model in Klipsch’s Heritage line. The original design was introduced circa 1957 as a center channel for a pair of Klipschorns, although the name was not used officially until 1964 in a company brochure. By 1973, Klipsch was running a national ad with “Heresy in the Church” as the by-line. It was the first non-corner speaker that Paul W. Klipsch designed, and thus it was considered heretical in the sense of violating the master’s doctrine of corner-horn loading. Ironically, the Heresy III strikes me as being even more heretical in this day and age of sub-90dB sensitivity speakers. Here you have a fairly compact package, almost bookshelf-sized, that refuses to pander to current design fashion and focuses instead on high sensitivity and maximum SPL output.
Sporting a sensitivity of 99dB it opens up a new vista of sonic exploration—namely, low-power amplification. And I mean really low-power, 5Wpc or less. In the 1950s, five watts was deemed to be a perfectly adequate power reserve for domestic applications. With the advent of low-sensitivity bookshelf speakers, power amplifier ratings started to climb, culminating in the 1980s with the new standard, a 100-to-200Wpc solid-state amplifier. The raisons d’être of high-efficiency and high-sensitivity loudspeakers is not only to accommodate the single-ended triode (SET) crowd, but also to raise the macrodynamic bar—nudging dynamic range to new heights and doing so with low distortion levels. A conventional speaker may be able to soak up 200 watts short term without damage, but it will typically starts compressing and distorting when it hits sound pressure levels in the high 90s and is in fact lucky to make it above 100dB gracefully. On the other hand, the Heresy III’s maximum output is 116dB at 1 meter. A simple point-source calculation shows that the maximum SPL at a listening distance of 4 meters (about 12 feet) will be 104dB, adequate headroom for reproducing the maximum SPL generated by a symphony orchestra, even at Row A.
The Heresy has always been a three-way closed-box design throughout its history, but it underwent two upgrades, first in 1985 when it was released as Version II and then in 2006, to coincide with the 60th anniversary of the K-Horn, when several Heritage models (Klipschorn, Heresy, LaScala, Cornwall) were updated. The responsible designer was and still is Roy Delgado, who worked directly with Paul Klipsch for many years. Version III features significant driver upgrades. First of all, a more powerful woofer was selected with smooth response (and proven reliability in Klipsch’s pro-cinema surround applications). Both the tweeter and midrange compression drivers incorporate Kilpsch’s best- effort phasing plugs to maintain coherent wave fronts, and both have been updated to titanium diaphragms for extended response and lower distortion. Roy Delgado related the following: “One of things Paul taught me was to make sure that the drivers tell you where they want to be crossed over by taking into account several parameters. Minimum or no interference in the crossover band is the goal.” The speaker ships with a slanted riser base to tilt the cabinet backward for floor placement, which is how I used and evaluated the Heresy. However, the riser is removable to allow for bookshelf (i.e., non-audiophile) installations.
I deliberately referred to the Heresy as both high-efficiency and high-sensitivity. A high speaker sensitivity does not necessarily imply high speaker efficiency. For example, it is possible to combine several low-efficiency woofers to obtain a high-sensitivity rating. Efficiency is a figure of merit for the conversion of electrical into acoustical energy. The efficiency of an 8-inch woofer radiating directly into half space is typically no better than 1%. That means that 99% of the electrical energy fed into the voice coil is dissipated as heat. No wonder heat is a voice coil’s number one enemy. Woofers do much better when radiating into tubes or pipes whereby the efficiency can increase by up to a factor of 50. However, the required mouth size for a bass horn becomes prohibitively large at low frequencies. Another approach, exemplified by the Heresy, is to increase the intrinsic efficiency of the woofer. That can be done in three ways: increasing the woofer’s cone diameter, reducing the cone mass, and increasing the magnetic-field strength. Unfortunately, there is no free lunch. Reducing the cone mass raises the resonant frequency, while overdamping the woofer with a large magnet reduces the total Q; both of these parameters combine to reduce low-frequency extension.
It should be noted that speaker sensitivity can be and often is a misleading specification. A higher sensitivity does not necessarily imply a higher maximum SPL, as that depends on the woofer’s voice-coil excursion limit and power handling. Furthermore, the reported sensitivity is greatly influenced by the measurement protocol, which may not be disclosed by the speaker manufacturer. International standards specify using a broadband test signal such as band-limited pink noise. There have been cases where a pure sinewave has been used at a frequency corresponding to a peak in the frequency response in order to pad the stated sensitivity.
Sensitivity is conventionally measured using a voltage that corresponds to one watt into the nominal impedance of the speaker. That would be 2.83V across an 8-ohm load and 2V across a 4-ohm load. The problem is that a speaker’s impedance magnitude is far from being flat with frequency, and manufacturers do not rate their speakers consistently. The box resonance of the Heresy is at 64Hz and the minimum impedance is about 4.2 ohms at 150Hz. Klipsch confirmed that it uses a 2.83V pink-noise signal over the bandwidth of the speaker to determine sensitivity and that measurements are usually performed in half space. However, according to the international standard, the nominal impedance is to be no greater than the minimum impedance times a factor of 1.25. Thus there’s an argument to be made that the Heresy should be rated as a nominal 5-ohm load instead of 8-ohm. Using a lower test signal voltage appropriate for a 5-ohm nominal load, would of course reduce the Heresy’s measured sensitivity. It turns out that Klipsch uses an integrated impedance approach to establishing the nominal impedance rating. Since the Heresy’s impedance exceeds 10 ohms above about 700Hz due to padding down of the mid and tweeter drivers, its nominal rating is more closely related to its average impedance which is at least 8 ohms. In any case, rest assured that the Heresy III had no trouble at all partnering with a 2.5Wpc SET amplifier, making it the most sensitive speaker in my house.
The midrange uses an exponential horn while the tweeter is coupled to a tractrix horn, the better choice at high frequencies due to reduced beaming. The success of any horn-loaded speaker is super-dependent on proper driver application and integration. Push the horns below their cut-off frequency and you end up with reflections from the mouth back into the horn, which result in well-known megaphone-like coloration. To its credit, the Heresy is very well integrated. The range above 700Hz is fairly smooth without any major issues. I measured a dip around 600Hz but that was a measurement artifact, while room modes were clearly evident below 300Hz. There’s plenty of midbass but essentially no deep bass. With assistance from room gain expect flat bass extension to about 55Hz.
As is typically the case with loudspeakers, a single-on axis measurement does not reveal the whole story since the soundfield is three-dimensional in nature. The problem is that the horns start beaming in the presence region, with output falling rapidly off- axis. However, listening on-axis was not an option. As a practical matter, I found it necessary to toe-in the speakers a few degrees in order to enlarge the sweet spot at the listening seat; otherwise slight head movements resulted in significant image shifts. But the downside of that was a rolled-off treble range and a tonal balance that was closed-in and dark-sounding. The somewhat “heretical” antidote was to ignore the floor riser and actually raise the speakers off the floor by about two feet so as to position the tweeter at about ear level. The end result was a much more neutral balance. Stand-mounting the Heresy, as one would do with monitor-style speakers, offered another important benefit. Eliminating the floor loading reduced the magnitude of the midbass response hump, which was responsible for plummy, muddled bass lines that even a break-in period is also mandatory. Right out of the box the mids sounded distinctly veiled. But not to worry—the fog lifted after several hours of play time to reveal a lucid and cogent midrange.
The Heresy was extremely revealing of a power amp’s sonic character, especially the quality of the first watt. It’s the first watt that sets the stage for a high-efficiency speaker. High- power Class AB amps that sound perfectly fine in the context of ordinary-sensitivity speakers didn’t perform nearly as well as low-power SET amplifiers, lending support to the notion that the next 99 watts hardly matter if that first watt is compromised. In particular, two SET amplifiers stood out: the 3Wpc Get*Set*Go designed by DIYTube’s Shannon Parks and based on the 6B4G triode, and Pete Millett’s R120 SET, which, as the name implies, is based on the French R120 power triode. The Get*Set*Go yielded a cohesive and transparent soundstage populated by well-focused image outlines. In particular, it catered to female voice with smooth, extended upper registers and nary a hint of brightness. Bass lines were decent, but hampered by an excess of midbass energy when the Heresy was sitting on the floor.
As good as the Get*Set*Go was, the R120 elevated the Heresy to an even higher performance plateau. Textures were sweeter sounding, tonal colors more vivid, and image outlines even more palpable. Treble detail and resolution of ambient info were improved. Bass lines tightened up to a degree that no pentode or ultra-linear push-pull amp could match. And above all else, I was swept away by the emotional intensity unleashed by this combo. It was hard to believe that only 2.5Wpc were in play. Higher-power amps can, of course, play louder, but the goosebump factor with this SET when amplifying a singer’s whisper or plaintive cry was almost off the chart. And while I could drive the R120 into clipping, albeit soft-clipping, on a 96dB load, it seemed to possess adequate headroom driving the Heresy—at least in a medium-sized listening room with sane musical selections.
I don’t mean to imply that because the Heresy proved to be a sonic revelation with low-power SET amplifiers it might be unhappy with more power. It was quite comfortable being partnered by the 120W Z-Infinity Z120 monoblocks, and in fact, such power reserve is a prerequisite for testing its ultimate SPL limit. It was also happy being partnered by the Lamm Audio M1.2 Reference monoblocks, which yielded smooth textures and spectacular dynamic reach.
The Heresy can play louder and with lower distortion than a host of rear-horn-loaded full-range drivers, many of which are handicapped by a short voice coil and thus poor excursion capability. It is a godsend for music lovers in search of a tube- friendly high-sensitivity speaker. The Heresy is not perfect, but then no one should expect perfection at its asking price. The real surprise is that it is capable of delivering a significant slice of sonic heaven. It represents a terrific value and merits nothing less than an enthusiastic two-thumbs-up recommendation!
SPECS & PRICING
Frequency response: 58Hz– 20kHz +/-3dB Maximum acoustic output: 116dB SPL Nominal impedance: 8 ohms Powerhandling:100W max continuous (400W peak) Sensitivity: 99dB@1W/1m Crossover frequency: 5kHz (HF), 850Hz (LF) Weight: 44 lbs. Dimensions: 15.5" x 23.81" x 13.25" Price: $1700 per pair
KLIPSCH GROUP, INC.
3502 Woodview Trace, Suite 200 Indianapolis, IN 46268 (317) 860-8100 klipsch.com
ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT
Sony XA-5400 SACD player with ModWright Truth modification; Kuzma Reference turntable; Kuzma Stogi Reference 313 VTA tonearm; Symphonic Line RG-8 Gold & Ortofon SPU Royal N MC phono cartridges; Pass Labs XP-25 phono stage; Experience Music Passive Aggressive volume control, Concert Fidelity CF-080LSX2 and Pass Labs XP-30 preamplifiers; DIYTube Get*Set*Go and Pete Millett R120 SET, Z-Infinity Z120 and Lamm Audio M1.2 Reference monoblocks; FMS Nexus-2, Wire World, and Kimber KCAG in
I could have posted this on the speakers thread, but though it was ok here. MrD
Both the tweeter and midrange compression drivers incorporate
Kilpsch’s best- effort phasing plugs to maintain coherent wave fronts,
and both have been updated to titanium diaphragms for extended response
and lower distortion
The phase plugs are integral to coupling in the throat of the speaker.
I certainly wouldn't recommend the Heresy IIIs without subs as even with putting them on the floor with their angled risers (as I do, although they're maybe 1.5" taller on the blocks I use). Maybe if stuffed into a corner, but that causes more of an imagined low end and these things ain't there below maybe 60hz. Kind of like a PA speaker. Zu is a speaker I had been considering before hearing the Heresys but around here it's "no Zu for you" as I'd have to go to a show or risk buying without hearing, a thing I no longer do. Note that I listen to these things around 9 or 10 feet away (Speaker to my cranium measurement) and they do display a nice soundstage that does't appear to be coming from the floor, so with these the angled bases seem to work well. The horns don't beam to any degree that is noticeable, and I'm surprised by that as I've had non horn speakers beam much worse.
When you read the reviews of the sound, you read a lot of the same thing about Heresy III that you read about similar priced (and way less efficient) smaller monitors from the likes of ATC, Harbeth, etc. Not much if any bass below 50hz, but what you get is so enthralling you might not care for most music.
I listened at the dealer first with sub then without (by request) on some nicely recorded pop/synth stuff. Without breaking out the spectrum analyzer, in a fairly short and rushed audition granted, I was not thinking where is the bass at all with these. The dynamics and SPL possibilities with the Heresys for the price is perhaps their most unique feature. They were located low on teh stands near the front corners though mind you. They are said to be able to do realistic SPLs with percussion, large scale classical, etc., as well or better than most anything else near their price, and certainly on fewer watts. If those are things that appeal, choices may be limited with just a few watts and a modest budget. They had my toes tapping very quickly which is always one of my litmus tests.
charles1dad and others that asked, I do find the Living voice to come alive a little more with 15-20wch but if your not listening at 90db and above i don't feel they need the extra power to be satisfying I live in a condo type building (Lofts) so I have to be aware the people around me. I tend to listen in the 70-85db rang so the 8wch seems sufficient. that said I am looking at the possibility of paralleling my 300b amp and increasing my power to 16wch. so Yes the LV's will sing quite nicely on 8wch but 15-20wch would be better.
Glenn, Your typical listening range is the same as mine with my 8 watt SET or even when I was using my push pull tube 100 watt (60 watts triode mode which I preferred). I Seldom go louder but have gotten 100db peaks with the Frankenstein SET. It’s funny when the 60 watt was my main amplifier I was so impressed with its organic nature and transparency. Best I’d had up to that point. The Frankenstein instantly changed that perception , 8 watts! More open, natural, less electronic character (relatively speaking). Most significantly, a higher level of pure emotional involvement. It absolutely just pulls me right into the music, deeply. I suspect you’ll be happy with the parallel 300b amplifier approach. Charles
Your experience with the Omega XRS 8 Junior is surprising to me. I don't own a pair of Omegas but I have a couple of friends with them and I think they sound great. I wil add that the 8 Jr. is probably a better speaker for jazz than classical, IMO.
I have recently heard the Rethm Bhaava speakers and was very impressed. They say that they are not as good as their Rethm's more expensive offerings. If so, the upper speakers must be f***ing fantastic because the Bhaavas I heard were great. Musical and detailed (more of the former) and lots of bass, provided by an active woofer. Made in India (may be a problem for some, not for me) and quite affordable.
I may be out of fashion here but I believe that the final transducer (speakers or headphones) are the most critical components in a system - more so than the amplifier. When outfitting a new system I usually try to selecting an amp to match the speakers and not the other way around.
GR Research Super V - The Super-V has 97db sensitivity and is an easy 8 ohm load. They can be driven easily with even the lowest wattage amplifiers because it only has to drive the upper coaxial driver. The two 12" SERVO controlled subs in the bottom of each speaker are powered by their own amplifier.
For several happy years, I enjoyed the music making company of my Audio Note Kits "Kit 1" 300 B SET amplifier, which I built with my own two hands (loved the experience). As documented on my blog, here, I eventually learned that although sensitivity ratings (the stuff you see quoted in decibels in manufacturer's literature) are certainly important in finding a good match for a low powered, single ended amplifier, it doesn't tell the whole story. I thought that my Spatial M3 Turbo S speakers sounded splendid with that single ended amp, and they did… until I happened to hear the same speakers with a high-powered, solid-state amp that I had borrowed and that seemed to make everything I like about the Spatial's a lot better. When I spoke with Clayton Shaw of Spatial to ask him why, he explained that sensitivity is part of the story (and an important part, since ideally you want a SET amplifier to be operating within its "1st watt” for lowest distortion), but you also have to take into account the impedance curve of the speaker – how difficult or easy a load is it for the amplifier to drive properly? And in that regard, the standard M3 Turbo S was not going to be a particularly great match for a SET amp.
By the way, I ran my Reference 3A De Capo monitors (which I loved) with that 300 B amp for quite a while. It sounded lovely, but it turns out that the sensitivity ratings given by the manufacturer are somewhat optimistic. It's not a slam on the manufacturer or the speaker – both are great – but there doesn't seem to be any standard way of determining sensitivity, and the question is always, across what part of the frequency spectrum is the speaker that sensitive?
Anyway, let me toss out a somewhat out-of-the-box suggestion. You might take a look at the very well reviewed Fritz Speakers Carbon 7's. Although the sensitivity ratings of Fritz's monitors are not at first glance especially high, their impedance curve tends to be nice and flat and an easy amp load due, in part, to the series crossovers that Fritz uses. Plus, Fritz is a sweetheart to deal with. Anyway, here is my review of the Carbon 7 SE speaker paired with my old 300 B amp. Enjoy.
I now have my Heresy IIIs on the floor with no support blocks, and am using Vibrapods under the corners of the supplied tilt back risers with felt pads applied to the bottom of the pods so the speakers can easily be moved around a little on my suspended wood floor. This works really well. As stated previously, I eschew (never "chew" spikes, but it’s OK to "eschew" them) spikes with speakers since I’ve become a "decoupler." I also liberated my larger sub to the right of my rig so I now can move that around also as sort of an "instant room tuning" thing. My smaller sub is set in a small corner formed by a fireplace directly behind the left speaker. For room tuning I always listen while wearing a gigantic grizzly bear suit.
To get good sound without shortcomings, you can use you 7-8 watt just only to powered wideband and tweeter. Use a powered bass, but is not enough to get full body sound, you need also fill the gap between low bass active module and wideband, driver, become all wide band drivers is no good in midbass also. Most of the folks dont realize this and keep thinking ZU is the best. to get this is only one way to supplement with midbass driver, Take a look on my Bache audio-002, and if you close to NY or NJ ----listen
I moved houses and now have a dedicated listening room. I got stuck in analysis paralysis and haven’t pulled the trigger on anything yet. Usually I move more decisively. I think all the house projects are slowing me down too. Houses are expensive!
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
