May I recommend a pair of Aerial 5B speakers? They're an excellent value and make beautiful music. While they're not super efficient, they're not difficult to drive either. And they work very well is both small and large rooms.
Speaker recommendation for married couple
I am the guy who opened the thread "Harbeth Love". Unfortunately, wife didn't like them at all. She listened to ATC, nope. Spendor? Nope. I do trust her ears too but we need speakers that we both like. I remember her liking this Sonus Faber speakers (can't recall the model but I know newer Fabers). She also likes KEF LS50 which I find good but not outstanding. Any help for this married couple?:)
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One more that fits the bill: https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/speakers/aeromax-2 or https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/speakers/aeromax-6 |
I've had similar discussions with my wife and my wife had similar comments to your wife's. I hope we're not talking about the same wife but since you mentioned you're in Europe, we should be OK on that count since I'm in the US. Back to speakers. You're wife's observations lead me to draw two conclusions. She like the point source sound of the Kef's and the natural sound of the paper drivers of the Sonus with it's simple crossover. The Kef's do not sound as natural to her because of the metal cone -- never a natural sounding solution. Because of close proximity ceiling surface you will need a consistent off axis response = point source or coaxial design. Or an open baffle. Also, you need paper drivers for natural open sounding vocals, such as paper cone full-rangers. So... Look at paper cone coaxials like Tannoy's (go for the 12" models) or Emerald Physics open baffle. They have natural, dynamic sound and are not overly bright. The point source "open baffle" designs will have less problems with ceiling and wall reflections and a natural presentation of semi-omni directivity. Another option -- full range paper cone based speakers with woofer support like Rethm Bhaava. Just look around -- paper cone + point source, or 8" full-range with woofer support. Herman |
Given that you are in Europe, I suggest Gradient and Amphion. Both are imo extremely intelligently designed as far as room interaction... in particular, both do an unusually good job with the off-axis response. The vertical off-axis response matters more than usual in this case, given the low ceiling height. If fairly early reflections are pretty much inevitable, you want them to have essentially the same spectral balance as the direct sound, and both of these brands are very good at that. |
I solve this all the time with a pair of Sonus Faber Venere 2.5's. Beautiful to look at in Gloss White, Black or Walnut, but the best part is they sound way above their price. I've had a lot of guys come in and listen to speakers up to twice the price and at least 80% of the time they go home with the 2.5's. Never had a disappointed customer and have never had a return...well actually twice because they traded up to the 3.0's. We always have demos, but not looking to plug us here. Buy them locally from a reputable dealer and then take her out for a nice dinner to show your appreciation. |
Sir- I am older. Have had all sorts of speakers. Listen to all sorts of music. Actually have a pair of Omega's now - among others. I think for the range of types of music, the budget you have - if I understood that correctly, and for something of an appropriate size - you should go listen to a pair of Cantons if you can. The Canton Vento 836's are, imo, pretty remarkable over all styles of music, solid, attractive, and obtainable. Do what you will, but, you should hear some Cantons before making a decision. Good luck to you and your bride in your search. |
Certainly listen/look again to the Sonus Fabers... The Olympica 1 may be found used in the $ 3k price range... I have Oly II's and my wife likes the cosmetic appearance for our space better than any box style speaker... the Sonus Faber Olympica series is finely crafted and looks like sculpture... For the best sound they must have proper placement and that includes about 2' of air around them. Sonus also has some lesser priced models that are quite entertaining. In my case the Sonus Fabers were replacing some older B&W speakers that looked like boxed robots... She loved the look of the Oly's so it was a non issue for us... and she loves the sound too.. Female vocals, live jazz and acoustic recordings are amazingly enjoyable on the Sonus Oly's.. Older rock can also be great depending on the recording qualities.. My old Buffalo Springfield album and Neil Young come through wonderfully... I am not a high db listener but the 4 ohm Oly's crank it out if I want to with an old 100 WPC ARC solid state amp. My wife is a visually oriented person as are many of women that I worked with in my A/V sales years... I suspect as mentioned above that your wife might be interested in the visual qualities of the choices just as much as the auditory preferences.... Regardless, if you search around enough you will find something you both love. |
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Notes from the wife :) Thanks everyone for the input! I really do leave these decisions to my audio geek - he can have whatever he wants and I just want him to be happy. Unfortunately for him, he has a burning urge to pass it through me for approval because he thinks I have better ears 😂 I want to feel the music in my bones, I want to feel like I can close my eyes and am listening to it live. The full reverberation of the bass, the nuances in the metal strings of an acoustic guitar. The sibilance in vocals just grates my ears. I basically want to sit in the 1980s Maxell poster and be blown away. I don't particularly remember the Sonus Fabers except that they were very expensive 😂 The KEF LS50, it's tiny and aesthetic perfection (imho). We've listened a few times. It's a very tight and clean sound, bass is pretty damn good (even better supplemented with a sub), but perhaps not as natural in the vocals for me to be blown away. Not as warm as I'd prefer. Harbeths, I cannot pinpoint it, but I just didn't feel it. I felt like it was a simple speaker, and it just felt flat. Definitely a warm sound but I just didn't feel the power in the vocals. I think the lows drowned the sound. So, I guess I am looking for warmth and bass, detail in mids, and no/low sibilance in vocals. |
Thanks guys! I will try to answer most of your questions/comments. And if I miss some, I am sorry. I did mention the budget in my second post, $2000 used. Demo speakers are fine too. Just don't like to buy luxury items new. Very good question:) We are currently in Europe. I can listen to pretty much every brand from Elac to Rockport, PSB to Magico. I thought exactly like you did! I thought let me go by what she likes most as long as I am happy too. Almost wanted to end the search with the LS50 but we still want to listen to more speakers. As I mentioned before the ceiling is all wood. No concrete. And my friend measured it with his mic/minidsp and found the acoustics pretty good actually. He was surprised too. Thanks again guys! |
With 6 foot ceilings, you may have a lot of unwanted reflection from that source. I have 7 foot ceilings, and I solved the problem by putting in a lattice of 1x3's, which are 0.75 inch thick strips of wood, in 1 foot by 2 foot rectangles. In addition to taming reflections, it gives an interesting and finished look to the place. |
(((She does not like when the vocals make that "TISSSSS" sound where it
scratches your ears. She also likes good bass, more than I do for sure.))) This is typical of many loudspeakers with a steep order crossover which causes a pre and post ring on transits with excessive sibilants not to mention removing parts of the music's timing. This is why many live recordings sound great with Cans yet loose it with conventional steep order box speakers. In a well executed phase and time correct design most find obvious music's fundamental are in proper sync with overtones and harmonics. This and other factors work to preserve the recordings whole venue instead of bits & pieces. In listening to a 6 DB per octave phase and time correct design you experience dimensionality and preserve the lost time in the music while negating unwanted pre and post ringing that most women and men are very sensitive to. Best, JohnnyR |
Did she listen to the speakers in a dealer's showroom or at your house? 6' ceilings are extremely low, so you should probably get some panels mounted overhead first and foremost to try and 'disappear' the ceiling. No doubt you are getting a lot of early reflections and comb filtering from the ceiling that are coloring what you and the Mrs. are hearing. |
Take a look at standmount or floor standing from: Ryan speakers, good value with Sonus Faber like qualities Sonus Faber Venere or Olympica series very musical Focal Sopra series great balance and resolution B&W 800 series - either love or hate? Audio Physic good at everything easy on the eye Magnapan great at lower volume tough looks KEF R LS, R series and Reference all great You didn't mention budget? Or what electronics you will use? |
Again I will say Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands. Why???? Because they are in the same family sound wise as SF. They cost a whole lot less used generally than SF. IMO you pay for the finish and looks for SF speakers big time. The Mozart Grands also have deep bass for a small floor standers. They are able to completely disappear. They are also 4ohm so a 70 watt amp that doubles is plenty enough power so you don't need to go crazy. They are in you price range used. The finish is better than most speakers in the price range. If looks are not an issue (not that they really look bad just not a show stopper) I would go also look at Golden Ear speakers. The ribbon tweeter are very musical and never sharp. Plus you get more bass than you would expect because of powered subs in the speakers. Also you can adjust the bass level allowing you to tone down bass in a smaller room. |
My wife loved my old Martin Logan reQuests, with their full body and pleasing detail, yet not overly sibilant sound. That is, until we put in hardwood floors at our former home. They simply were too big for the room. When I bought a pair of used Von Schweikert VR-5 HSE speakers, she loved the lifelike detail, looks and smaller size. Personally, I loved the transparency, detail and midrange much better than the reQuests, but the lack of lower end troubled me. In all fairness, I was using a passive preamp and when I had a LampizatOr Amber DAC with boosted gain, I felt that lower end jump a bit. However, when I upgraded to the LampizatOr Lite 7 DAC, the lower end was problematic until I purchased a Hsu Research ULS-15 Mk II subwoofer. Problem solved! In our room, it really shines on all sorts of music. From what I recently saw, there is a pair for sale right now. Cheers, Juan |
I personally don't have a problem with dealers posting here as long as their input is objectively their opinion or experience. The dealers generally have a much broader exposure to different brands and models so it would be counterintuitive to not solicit input from folks who can contribute most, at least in theory. |
I like Audiogon forums; it’s a great forum where fellow enthusiasts can talk and share there experience and seek the insights of others with the same passion. And although I show a limited post count and limited member lifespan, I’ve been around here for about a decade (had to change my account since it was tied to my prior work email.) So anyway - Since when did the forums here become a place where dealers could blatantly (or even more subtly) shill for their businesses? Glad to see that AT’s post from a prior thread was deleted (perhaps he did that on his own out of good taste and/or self-awareness, perhaps it was the moderators, who knows) but I will say - All the passion and knowledge in the world can still leave a bad taste in someone’s mouth in an open forum like this where it’s obvious that it’s from a dealer pushing their business this hard. AT has not necessarily made bad points or necessarily given bad advice, but the ulterior motives as of late have really been difficult to overlook, at least for me. Perhaps he’s a good guy In person but .... Sorry for the rant guys and perhaps I should have directed this privately to the AG team instead but I’m not sure that all members and readers here are fully aware. Greg EDIT - In full disclosure I'll admit I haven't read the site policies pertaining to dealers so perhaps AT is well within AG's allowances for dealers and/ or product promotion. |
The only way you will know the sound quality of a particular speaker is to change only the speaker with the same electronics. I am not a Harbeth fan, I prefer ATC to Harbeth, but that is not the point, your mistake is thinking that you have to shop used. We and other area dealers have demo products that you can purchase for less, and in that way you can still here a good representative sampling of products which is impossible to purchase that way on the used market. Your best resource is to find a good dealer and demo a bunch of speakers in your price range that both you and your wife like. You also need to be cognizant of the electronics can change the sound therefore you should either bring your own electonics |
@celo - hum....my wife has very muscial ears and she never thought Harbeth were flat with vocals. In fact, far from it, it was the one area she though the speakers were very good. Same here, I always enjoyed the vocals with the C7s. I'm wondering if you have another weakness in your chain. Did you mention your current amp and source? |
Just as another option, you may want to look into the single driver full range speakers the likes of Omega or Decware. I've only heard a couple of their models like the Decware DNA and Omega 3XRS and the vocals sounded incredible. They need very little power to come to life but may not be aesthetically pleasing depending on your taste. One other thing to keep in mind is tubes tend to generate a lot of heat and with a room that size, especially in an attic, you may find them uncomfortable during warm days. Good luck. |
Wow, she didn't like vocals on Harbeths and called them "flat?" That's the first speaker I and many others would recommend if someone really cared about vocals on speakers. I don't know what you do when the speaker probably most renowned for natural vocal range doesn't make the grade? Good luck. I think any recommendation is going to be essentially a shot in the dark. (It's impossible for us to know if she was hearing what the various speakers can actually do, or if it was issues with set up, etc). |
I am definitely considering a tube amplifier. I just ordered this passive LDR preamp so I used my option for the preamp there. I used to have ProAcs. I was never too wowed with them. They were tonality right I think, but I remember getting bored after a while. They were ProAc Studio 125s (floor standers). The bass was too much for my room also. This specific model was just not an exciting speaker to listen to. |
After reading your follow-up, the first thing I want to ask is if you've ever considered a tube pre &/or amp? That can make a notable difference, adding a bit of both presence & smoothness to vocals. One of the things that makes entry Vandersteens such great value is they have a very form follows function appearance--but not everyone will appreciate that. Also they're balanced & subtle in a way you'll likely enjoy--but that might not wow your wife. I briefly mentioned ProAcs above, but will say it again, now as an actual recommendation. (Unless, of course, she dislikes traditional looking speakers.) They're a bit more immediately exciting & don't skimp on bass (including their standmounts), but still manage to sound refined--even on non-audiophile recordings. Good luck & keep listening. |
Thank you for the replies! I should have given more info in my first post, sorry. My wife read all the replies too. So, let me try to give more info. The Sonus Faber was a monitor. I still cannot recall the model. With the Harbeths/ATC/Spendor, she said the vocals sounded flat. That was her exact word, flat. I agree SF and LS50 are different sounding speakers. She probably again went for the vocals only (not necessarily same sound but probably the way she likes it). She does not like when the vocals make that "TISSSSS" sound where it scratches your ears. She also likes good bass, more than I do for sure. We pretty much listen to similar music and not limited to artists below. We listen to heavy metal and rap the least probably. Radiohead Beck Coldplay Wilco, etc. Lately, she started to listen more jazz/female vocals like me (I love female vocals). Norah Jones Diana Krall Billie Holiday Agnes Obel Fay Claassen,etc. We do not have the biggest room, about 300sq ft. but the problem is the ceiling (wood) is low, only 6ft. Let's get back to recommendations. All the brands I know and some I have heard. I always wanted to hear the Vandersteens but never had a chance to. Let me rephrase Johnny because this is exactly what I want to achieve. ".. feel the music instead of analyzing parts of the stereo." I want to sit down and enjoy the music without any distraction and without trying to find out what can be better with my system. Anyway, although we cannot probably find all the speakers to audition but we will do our best :) Thanks again! |
I have 3 different systems. My wife likes the least expensive ones in our living room. Decware ERRx radial speakers, she's says these are the best even though I have Janszen hybrid electrostats in my listening room that I feel are clearly superior. There's something she likes about the Omni directional sound. |
My wife is not an audiophile, but greatly appreciates and acknowledges the sound quality of our system. She only comments on whether she feels if the sound is better, worse, no difference, ad does not tell me yes or no regarding any of my audio purchases (although she does comment on some of my music choices). My last purchase was a pair of Omega Super Alnico Monitors (in cherry finish) on Skylan stands. That was over a year ago and she still comments on hearing things in a recording that she never notices before, and loves these speakers. Before getting these we auditioned Harbeth M30.1s, Golden Ear Triton 3, KEF LS50s, and the Tannoy Revolution XT 8F. I really liked the Harbeths, but thought to give the Omega a try (30-day free home audition, just pay return shipping). We both immediately picked the Omega's. Midrange magic (right there with Spendor and Harbeth) at half the cost of the Harbeth's. My speaker path to today has taken us from AR (from late 70s), Altec Lansing, Polk, to most recently Spendor (BC-1 and s5e). Louis at Omega makes a wide range of monitors and floor standers, does custom veneers, is great to interact with, and produces one heck of a speaker. |
The spousal unit and I have just completed our first speaker search as a couple. My spouse, a musician, initially wanted stand mounts (Genelec, B&W). Based on past experience, I wanted floor standers (as close to full range as we could get for our budget). After considerable auditioning, we decided on a pair of GoldenEar Triton 3+. You could say that they have both "detail and warmth". They also had attributes we both considered important: large soundstage, generous sweet spot, transparency, coherence, dynamics. (Much to our surprise, neither of us liked the LS50s.) I am with audiotroy - what specifically did your wife like abut the Sonus Fabers and LS50s. (The house sound of these two brands sound nothing alike to me.) What kind of music do you both listen to? What's your budget? I assume you both brought along some of your favorite music to the auditions. Just for the record, I am the wife, and I am the audiophile. So now, jnovak, you've heard of a wife who cares more about how a speaker sounds than how it looks. ;-) |
Celo, good for you, for fully including your wife in the process! My suggestion is, don't be in a hurry - ENJOY the quest together! I can't begin to predict what speakers lie within the intersection of what you like and what she likes. If the visual appeal is indeed a high priority for her, flip though some of your audio magazines together and that should give you some general ideas. And maybe the two of you would enjoy a weekend together at an audio show? Best of luck to both of you, wherever your quest may lead. Duke |
My better half, eventually found what she liked, which is all that matters at the end of the day. That is married life! The only other thing I can say listen To them, a lot of them and eventually she will have her choices & hopefully a few of yours. If they are a high high end shop or independent dealer they should allow you to demo them in your home. Good luck and be patient. |
Agree with audiotroy in that it is odd that she liked both KEF LS50 and Sonus Faber which are two totally different animals. Maybe totally different sonically, but perhaps they were the two smallest speakers that she saw. ;^) I recall my wife many years ago pushing for those cute little Bose Cube speakers. She thought they were adorably unobtrusive, unlike my "normal" full range speakers. She envisioned them being very easy to "hide". I never did buy the Bose Cubes, and eventually she just gave up trying to steer my audio purchases. I allow her to run her fashion sense in every other room in the house. |
Were the Sonus Fabers & LS50 paired with the same amp? Same room? Same source/music? I wasn't overly impressed by the KEF LS50 either, but their new Reference 1 are rather amazing, if they're in your budget. The R300 or R500 might also be options. And what didn't she like about the Harbeths anyway? (Its probably not relevant to your situation, but my GF & I settled on ProAcs--still having the British midrange I enjoy, but framed in the more lively & bassy presentation she craves.) |
Agree with audiotroy in that it is odd that she liked both KEF LS50 and Sonus Faber which are two totally different animals. I went through this with my wife as well and came to the conclusion that she didn't like the "sound" of anything that looked like a plain, old fashion speaker box (e.g. Harbeth, Spendor) |
