Sound Quality of red book CDs vs.streaming
bo1972"Audio is a profession but most people who work in this would have never understood that." Audio is a profession for an engineer but it is not for someone like you who is a retailer and there is a problem with Tru-Fi as we have discussed because you have refused, resisted, and avoided addressing the ICSS Factor that I discussed with you and until you comprehend, understand and accommodate ICSS factor into your music reproduction system installations your work will be inadequate, incomplete, and inconsistent in performance. |
Audio is a profession but most people who work in this would have never understood that. Maybe I never met any person who spend that much time as I did in over 20 yaers of time. That is not the problem or you cannot blame them. But doing both sound&vision by trial and error proof on facts that they are all lazy and own a limited level in insight and knowledge. Now when I talk with people who also work for a long time in audio it is very easy to make them all understand that trial and error has no foundation. They all agree, so I ask them; what they F. do you think you are doing. The 3th of july 1998 what my first day when I started to work fulltime in audio I knew (I was aware) that I had to learn what the dna/footprint is of each individual part. So I started to learn in properties of sound. Now 20 years later it looks like the whole F. world have been sleeping in those 20 years of time. Because the facts proof (all manufacturers and distributers agree) that they work by trial and error. And now they all understand that is has no F. foundation. It proofs on facts how low the level in awareness is of most human beings. And if you think or believe that I think and believe I am Jesus or special. You are all wrong. I think that what we do is normal and they way it should be done. For me the difficult part in life is that I see and experience most things as neutral or as a given. But....I life in a world where most human beings see and experience things as positive or negative. That is why people always defend their system or product when I write something they don’t like to read. Come on, grow up. We are talking about luxery products. This is not a matter of life and dead. Try to learn to look further. In 2019 we will start helping manufactuters to create better products for consumers. So they will get a much better quality for the money they spend. If you all think and believe that I do this for myself. Again you are 100% all wrong. I only can do this based on the fact that I want others to get a better result. Without my clients I would have stopped a long time ago. When we say; we take care of all our clienst. This is exactley as I wrote it. We are there to support them. They can call me each single day. Even at christmas. I will be there to support them whenever they need me. We live in a world who is getting more selfish and egoistic each single year. We loose the connection with eachother. We want to proof the benefit. We believe in a better world for all people. And those whi have nothing need the most support. It is my personal goal to create a foundation for those who have nothing. I only could spend all those thousands of hours in both sound&vision so I cooudl one day start my foundation for those who have nothing. All these years this was my goal. Without this I would never had the dedication and effort to do it. I wish you all a great christmas and a happy 2019. I hope to see you in 2019 so you all can experience what Tru-Fi is. And how Statement Audio Pro-measurement can bring you all to much higher endresult. |
I think system variations and opinions on this matter will vary greatly. I have two CD players in two audio systems and have compared the sound of those to my Node 2 streaming ripped CDs. Most often the ripped versions sound slightly better, but maybe the noise of the CD spinner or something else is a factor. My NAS is in another room from my audio room. When I stream via the Node 2, I think Tidal albums sound as good as my CD players, but with Tidal MQA albums, it edges out my CD player with about 80% of the content I find. I cannot argue with Bo1972 (poster above) since he is some kinda audio god and knows everything about Tru-fi. |
And yes the acoustic has the biggest influence on sound and stage. In the Tru-Fi world acoustic limitations are gone. When we visit a new client or we go to an audio show we go back in time for 20 years of time. It looks like they all have been sleeping. We will share our Statement Audio Pro-measurement with different manufacturers in 2019. In the last 8 years I have spend by far the most time regarding research in the acoustic influences of rooms. Statement Audio Pro-measurement is by far the most influantial tool in audio available. And it will bring audio to a much higher level than what is possible at this moment. Beside the acoustic. We have done a lot of research since 2015 regarding smog, highfrequent noise and magnetism. And also in these parts we made huge steps in using many different accessoires. And we evfn use it in our modifications. It creates a superior level in effectiveness. The cost are lower than what can be achieved by other tools for the same money. I have contact a few times a week with a person who owns the biggest technical support company in my country. They do technical support for: Lumin, Pass Labs, Marantz, Onkyo, Denon Primare, Mark Levinson, Audio Research and many more. We talk a lot about the parts they use these days inside their amps, sources etc. The parts are getting cheaper each single year. And these are the facts and they count. This is why audio doesn’t get any better. |
Yet, 50% of the sound is attributable to the room. Room acoustics are more important on a percentage basis than a modified Lumin1. The totality of the audio system equipment, media and tweaks is half the sound. I'd like to know how your sound room was constructed to meet the 50% portion of the absolute best sound in the world? |
I agree that practically every device on the market can benefit from mods. Empirical Audio modded 40 different components for about 10 years. Very lucrative business and lots of happy customers. However, I got to the point that I could not get the ultimate performance from other companies products with mods in them. I had to design my own components. My customers begged me to do this. I still mod components, but only my own. Every component I make has gone through at least 3 improvements, most of them inexpensive upgrades. It's a vestige from many years at Intel, where continuous improvement is part of the culture. I also agree that 2- dimensional sound is pervasive, and even sound that resides only between the speakers. It requires some expenditure to achieve wide and deep soundstage and 3-dimensionality. It also requires every single thing in the system to be optimized. Even one poor cable can screw the pooch. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I will try to explain it. All people who sell audio products have a totally different focus than I have. It is not even comparable. They all work by trail and error. So they all connect a Lumin with an amp, loudspeakers and cables togheter. And again we are talking about facts. But when I would ask them: what is the DNA of a Lumin? Or what are the differrent properties/aspects of sound a Lumin can reveal or does not own? They all have no idea. Based on the fact that their insight is not able to think by properties. No do they see the different connections between each single part within an audio system. We know in details the full DNA of a Lumin networkplayer. Because we choose it by DNA. So we know how to create and use the full potential of it. As we know which cables and other accessoires you can use and which you cannot use. We use the menu and settings even different than all other companies who sell Lumin products. We modify all Lumin Players and even the Lumin L1 drive. This creates a superior level compared to each Lumin out of a box. Audio shops sell Lumin players out of a box by trial and error. And again we are talking about a 100% fact. No person in the world can deny or change that. Sometimes I send new clients to a shop to audition the same Lumin as they want to audition at our place. I already know the outcome even before I have send them to the other shop. The level out of the same Lumin (even without a modification) is superior by Tru-Fi compared to the same Lumin in any audioshop on this planet. You and all shops see it as a product. It is just a Lumin out of a box. In our world we are only interested in the DNA of a Lumin. When you use a Lumin by Tru-Fi the level in effectiveness is far superior to the limited level you can reach by trail and error. I give you another example, when an audio shop visits their clients to install an audio system or a part of it. They bring in a few screwdrivers, a measuring tape. And sometimes a leveler. When they install a new flatscreen they come with simmilar tools. Now our world. When we install an audio system or an part we come with the most advanced high tech measurement equipment and tools of over 7000 dollar. When we come to install a flatscreen again we come with the most advanced calibration software in the world with the best tools of over 7000 dollar. The tru-fi world is a world what goed so much further in details than the limited trail and error world ever will and can go. Superiority is a choice you make as a company. We have to goal and ambition to be the best in our world. Insight and knowledge you only can create by research and testing. And we are talking about thousands of hours. And this never stops and will go on untill I quite. So now I hope you will understand that a Lumin out of a box is a totally different Lumin by Tru-Fi. |
I have been putting off getting a music server, I really like owning the physical CD. For the last few years I was listening to a hard drive with my CDs ripped to FLAC via computer through my OPPO player and DAC. While the sound and overall convenience was great it really was a PITA to unplug the drive and plug it into a PC to add music. I finally caved in and bought a BlueSound Vault 2i and although I just set it up I can say I think it was a worthwhile purchase. Set up was super easy, I was playing songs from my drive , listening to internet radio, sending music from my tablet to it via Blutooth... this thing is like the Swiss Army knife of gadgets. |
The greatest thing about Tru-Fi is that it creates a level in quality what is affordable for many more people. It proofs that you can get a system what brings you closer to the music for a lot less money. People have no idea how much the acoustic, smog, highfrequent noise and magnetism limits the effectiveness of each part in your system. You only have accesss to a very limited level of the full potential of each part. And again we can proof this with sound over and over again. The sound will always proof the truth. The highend shows in Munic proof each single year that money will never help you or give you a stunning level in sound quality. Diversity (layering) in sound has the biggest influence on our emotion. So even a mono loudspeaker what is able to create a good level in layering in sound will make us experience emotion during listening to music. But when you let people hear a system what can reveal all the details and aspects of a recording the experience will become a lot more intense. |
I first got the audio/music bug at 5 years old when listening to my uncle's 5 way mono box speaker system with a 15" woofer powered by Heathkit pre-amp and amp and an AR turntable back in 1961. Sure, it wasn't high resoultion or stereo. So what? It was both gorgeous sounding and super dynamic for his average size living room. I always requested visiting his home to hear his 500 record collection from doo-wap, to opera, classical and pop. All in glorious mono. |
I have experienced the apparent superiority of DVDs, Blurays and 4K blurays to streaming 1080 and 4K videos over the internet on a Sony 940D 75" monitor (I employ higher end cabling and a Synergistic Research black duplex with Stillpoints for vibration control under the non-video monitor equipment). Maybe I just need a better streamer (at 300 Mbs speed) but I prefer the media to the streaming. I still enjoy streaming video. As to audio, I prefer the physical media as well but don't have the streaming capabilities of the video system. I listen to 78s, LPs and CDs. I say that my video system is closer to perfection for visual enjoyment than my audio system. Yet I spend hours per day/night listening to music rather than watching TV. I get such a high level of emotion out of my audio system that I long to listen to music daily. I'm addicted to music more than I am to equipment despite being an audiophile. I rarely change equipment, only tweaks (cables, acoustic treatments and vibration controls). What I lack in ultimate resolution (such as rampant among the newest high end speakers), I have in tone qualilty, harmonic layering, dynamics and rhythm/pace of the music. It a sign of how good it is when friends and acquaintances don't want to leave when listening to music in my home-they are immersed in a sonic wonderland. |
Audio is all about sound. And sound contains of different properties. We are not talking about rocket science. Tru-Fi proofs on facts that people use their systems a lot more and even for a much longer time at the same moment. The biggest limitation in audio is the acoustic influence of a room. We created Statement Audio Pro-measurement. It not only limits the problems caused by the room. It gives us access to a bigger freq. response. And a lot more layers in the whole freq. range. Diversity in sound is the most important property based on the fact that it has the biggest influence on our emotion. The harmonics in sound are very important to experience the emotion of music. And again this has nothing to do with a personal taste. When an audio system can reveal more layers in the whole freq. range it will effect the human emotion a lot more. When I read this thread, many experience cd-players as more musical. And I understand them all. But....it is based on the fact that many dacs and networkplayers are so limited in diversity in sound. This is not due to streaming. We tested many dacs and networkplayers. Many where poor in diversity in sound. This is the main reason why a lot of people still use their cd-players. When a source has an inbuild dac, it is a lot more easy to create diversity (layering) in sound. USB is an imporant reason why many people experience their music lacking emotion. Again this has nothing to do with personal taste. The facts proof that it limits the level in layering in sound. And again it can be easily proven by shootout and sound. Tru-Fi systems outperform incomplete trail and error systems. Over and over again as often you would like to hear. Due to the superior level in intensity and emotion. People should start to read about sound and also about our brain regarding the emotion we experience with music. It will make you aware and be able to understand audio a lot better than you understand it at this moment. Audio needs parameters so it becomes more easy for people to understand what sound is and does to our emotion. When you add a different loudspeaker, source, cable, amp or cable, you add new DNA. So it influence the sound and stage differently. But...when you have no idea what is changed and why. You are making choices by pure guessing. The real reason why so many people are not satisfied with their system is based on the lack of different properties of sound who are missing. And even this can be proven by sound. Trial and error is audiogambling. This makes it very easy to understand why the systems are far from perfect. They own a low level in emotion, and again we are talking about facts! |
Tru-Fi. Give me a break already. There is no absolute truth in anything, let alone sound reproduction. Those who think there is some kind of "perfect truth" that only can be brought out using the most "accurate system" are wrong. I would advise anybody to get this notion out of their head and proceed along more sensible lines. It can be vexing to pick out the "perfect" system. Depending on why you are reproducing music in the first place, that "perfect" goal is a moving target. I have a number of audio systems available for me to listen to; different needs can be best addressed with different systems. My advice is to first determine what you are trying to accomplish. Are you looking for a car stereo? Home Theater? Kitchen radio? Headphone system? The second step is to go out and listen to different gear that is designed for those identified applications. You may end up with a Meridian Signature Studio system in your car, a Focal Sib Evo home theater, a Tivoli radio for your kitchen, and a Schiit Stack with some Senn 800s for you headphone listening. You might end up with BAT electronics and a pair of Wilsons for your 2-channel system in your listening room. They will all sound different, none of them will be "true" to anything, and they can all be eminently satisfying for the application they were designed for. |
The thing I love most about audio is outperforming. A born perfectionist always wants to win and outperform all other competitors. Audio works by shootout. And each human being will always choose the sound what influence their emotion the most. That is why we work by Tru-Fi. "True Fidelity, either" Tru-Fi " Tru-Fi gives us access to all the details and aspects of each recording. |
Each product and even brands own their DNA. When you look at the differerent aspects/propertis of sound, we can extract each single product on the DNA it owns. Most audio products cannot reveal all the different aspects of sound. Because they do no own them. And what is misisng never will be there. Most people do not understand what they miss in their system. But for everything there is a reason why...... Most audiosystems which are sold worldwide are 2-dimensional and miss different aspects/properties of sound. This is the main reason why people experience and miss the emotion they are looking for. I spend a lot of time in reading about how our brian works regarding the emotion by music. I made me understand so much better why different asepcts/properties of sound are so important during listening to music. How do we work? New clients send the list of their system to us. So we cab see what we can use and what has to go. We create sound by Tru-Fi. This means that we only use products which own all the different aspects/properties of sound. When you connect a product what is incomplete it will limit each single system on the endresult. We make systems of new clients complete regarding the aspects/properties their systems do not own. We often send new clients to clients of us who already own a Tru-Fi system. The new clients alsways take their music with them. When new clients experience a Tru-Fi system they understand often even in a few minutes how big the differences are in emotion and intensity compared to their own trial and error created system. Emotion is the key to succes in audio. That is why you need all the different asepcts/properties of sound to be connected to the emotion of the music. |
I have done thousands of tests in audio in over 20 years of time. I never met a person so far who also works in audio for over 20 years of time with the same level in effort and time in research in audio. Audio never has been my work. Music is not a hobby for me, it is an addiction. For me music is my connection to life and emotion. It is a part of who I am as a person. It is my second nature. Audio is done all over the world by trial and error. This is a 100% fact. And has nothing to do with a personal taste. When you do audio by trial an error, you connect loudspeakers, a source, an amp and cables togheter. And you will listen to the endresult. And now comes the facts; Sound is founded by different properties. Which are the different aspects of sound. When you play a recording it owns information and all the different aspects/properties of sound. So....you need a system what is able to reveal all the details and different asepcts of the recording. Again we are talking about a 100% fact. When I ask to people who also work in audio: Music is emotion? All people agree. But.......when I ask them how the human emotion works and which parts influence our emotion. They have no idea. Humans have a personal taste in music, again this is a 100% fact. But......sound and music owns different aspects/properties who individuel can influence the emotion of us during listening to music. That is why each single audio system what can reveal all the different aspects/properties of sound will be prefered and chosen by each single human being over any incomplete (missing different aspects/properties of sound) audio system created by trial and errror. And yes this can be proven bij sound and shootout. Now we go back to trail and error? What is the biggest limitation on facts when you create an audio system by trial and error? This is very easy to explain. When you hear to your system at home, you will listen to all the properties/aspects of each part (amp, source, loudspeaker, cable etc) together and all the different parts who negatively influence the sound and stage. The acoustic, smog, highfrequent noise annd magnetims all have a big influence on both sound and stage. You also need to know which 3 parts influence the human emotion. All these different parts proof how complex sound is. You only can understand and guide audio when you understand all these different parts. Now we go back to trial and error. The limitation of trial and error is that you cannot extract the DNA of each individual part in your system. This is needed to be able to understand why the sound and stage (only 2 aspects/properties of sound) is what we hear. In 2017 I had aan appointment with a person who also started to work in audio in 1998 like I did. He owns a audioshop these days. I just received a new loudspeakercable and wanted to test it. So I asked him: this system is here for some time I guess? He said: Yes I asked him: the loudspeakercable which is connected to the system has been there for some time? He said: yes. I asked him; when you put that cable out can you tell me which aspects/properties of sound you will take out? He said: I have no idea. I asked him; when you replace it whit the new cable, which proerties of sound you will put back? He said: I have no idea. So I asked him; when you listen to your own system or the system of a client you have no idea why the stage and sound (only 2 different properties of sound) is what we hear? He said: I have no idea? So I said: when you change a part for another part you have no idea what you do and change? He said: I don't know. This proofs again on facts that trial and error is pure audiogambling. Based on the fact that there is no real foundation on which you make all your choices. I had this conversation with many many people who also work in audio for a long time. They all gave the same answers. I learned to be able to think and work by the properties of sound. In 1998 when I started to work in audio I had the mindset (based on awareness) to learn and understand why amps and loudspeakers all sound so different. Einstein: “Only one who devotes himself to a cause with his whole strength and soul can be a true master. For this reason mastery demands all of a person” It took me thousands of hours to be able to extract the full DNA of each individuel part in an audio system. Based on the awareness I had in 1998. I knew then that this is needed to understand and guide audio. The acoustics has the biggest influence on sound and stage. That is why I spent the most time in research on this part in the past 8 years. Also smog, magnetism and highfrequent noise have a huge negative influence on both sound and stage. I did research and tests on all these different apects. We created modifications and use different tools to minimize the influence of these aspects. It gives us access to a much higher level/end result of each individual part in any audio system. It also proofs how complex sound is to be able to understand what it does. Since 1998 I gained a lot of insight and knowledge thanks to different kind of specialists in different aspects. An extreme perfectionist loves to cooperate and share knowledge and insight with the best people available in their area. I am aware that this gives me the highest level in effectiveness and result possible. Together you are so much stronger than on your own. People in audio sell product and brands. We create sound. This is a different level and creates a quality what comes so much closer to how music sounds in real. We only use and create systems which are able to reveal all the different aspects/properties of sound. The biggest problem in audio is that over 99% of all audioproducts are incomplete in aspects/properties of sound. And what is misisng never can be revealed. You need all the aspects/properties of sound to experience and feel all the emotion the music posseses. Each single human being experience an incomplete audio system as less involving and less emotional compared to a system what can reveal all the aspects/properties of sound. And again this can be proven by sound. The sound you hear will always tell the truth. Music is one of the most exciting parts in life to experience. We want each single client of us to feel all the emotion on their beloved music. That is why we work by Tru-Fi. Tru-Fi is music playback, such as music actually sounds. Tru-Fi revolves around the emotion that triggers music, because the music is true to nature. Pure natural music reproduction. Everyone wishes to experience music as real as possible. As if you were present at a live performance. This will bring you fully into the music and you become one with the music. With this you will experience up to the emotion that the music can give you. And brings you into an atmosphere with your own music, in which you feel free with all your emotions. Because the music is completely separate and tangible in space. Never before did you feel so connected with your own music. And the music was so close to yourself. And each voice and instrument stands free and physically in your space. That's what True Fidelity is all about. |
@bo1972 "We work for our clients. And we put a lot of effort and energy to give them the best result possible. This is the only way people will stay happy with their system each day they want to use it." That statement is not only unsupportable it is untrue. I'm happy with my current system. And there are a lot of very experienced audiophiles on this site who have stated they are happy with theirs. And I don't think any of them would agree that there is only one path (yours) to that sort of contentment. Nor do I think many of them believe that such happiness is related to one brand or one consultant. Such claims smack of the theatrical. |
@bo1972 Based on your comments above, so to you Lumin seemed to be the absolute best (best of the best) or best in its price range? Cause there are other excellent options out there that offer highly musical sound with excellent musicality, musical drive, rhythmic drive, textures, textures in layerings as you have repeatedly said. Naim Audio, Linn (especially the latest generation of Linn Klimax DS with Katalyst DAC architecture), DCS, Esoteric, Vitus Audio, MSB Technology, MBL, Tidal, Chord, CH Precision all make excellent digital front end source components that offer highly musical sound that can convey the musical emotions of the artists or musical compositions. However, when it comes to movies, physical bluray discs or physical 4k UHD discs when played back through good quality 4k UHD bluray disc player such as the Oppo UDP-205 will always have superior audio & video qualities compared to streaming movies from Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, Vudu, etc. |
| Post removed |
You need to learn to look further............why you should sell products which are not the best in each single price tag? If I buy something I want the best quality for the money I spend. This is what we give all our clienst. I can garantee you that most people love a honest advice. I always ask new clients? What do you prefer? Do you want the truth or you want us to tell you what you would like to hear? We believe in the truth. When people read overhere that they did not choose the best option. It is often that people react negative. They would have liked that their choice was the best or at least a good one. And again you need to learn to look further. When you really want the best, we always and only create the best possible. We have many clients all over the world who are happy every single day with their system. Because we are extreme perfectionists and want the best for each individual client. When we would not give a honest or best advice you will loose your trust. We are very loyal and dedicated to all our clients. They understand that with all our knowledge and insight we brought them to a much higher level than they ever have been before. It is our duty and task to create systems which are used each single day. What will connect them to their music. We create sound and this makes us able to bring people a lot more close to the emotion of music. You only can create a high level in realism and emotion when you do a lot of research in audio all the time. We work for our clients. And we put a lot of effort and energy to give them the best result possible. This is the only way people will stay happy with their system each day they want to use it. |
I sold many many Lumin’s in over 3 years of time. I sold the most Lumin L1 drives compared to any other shop who also sells Lumin. Audio is all about shootout. And each single person wants that sound what is superior to any other quality. I have many clients who first used different nas drives. But.....when we did compare the modified Lumin L1 with their nas. And even the most expensive ones. It was no match. This is why I sold so many Lumin L1’s. You would be a born MF. fool to use any nas. The same counts for streaming by Tidal and Qobuz. When we compare the same music streamed by Tidal and Qobuz to the modified Lumin L1 and modified SBooster. The streamed music is just one big F. joke! In my world and those of my clients streaming is just for little children. Clients who streamed a lot, now stream a lot less after they modified their Lumin L1. The difference in level in so huge, that streaming is not that impressive anymore. When you hear music played by the modified Lumin L1 (and modified SBooster) what it does to your emotion is so addictive. The joy and smiles it creates on your face is priceless. We create sound and are always looking for the best quality possible. 2nd best and less is only made for the born losers in this world. We take care of all our clients. And want each single person to get the best quality for their money! |
I have done thousands of tests in audio in over 20 years of time now. This is for me just as addictive as music is for me. We also did a lot of reasearch in ethernet cables. We put the same music from the same computer with different ethernet cables. And we were suprised about the outcome. Most people believe and think it will never make a difference. Based on assumptions. But.......audio is not about what you think or even what people say. Audio will always be all about facts and what you can hear and perceive. The sound and what you hear will always tell the truth. I had the best results with the Audioquest Diamond USB connected to the Lumin L1. It was impressive how much more details and layers you could hear compared to other cables and cheaper Audioquest USB cables. |
We also compared ripped music with different programms and also with better drives. And yes the quality differs a lot. When we started to compare music you can buy even here the quality differs a lot. Even when we are talking about the same album at the same bitrate and quality. Music I buy from Qobuz is better in sound quality than from other websites. I also found out that when I compare the best results in ripping vs the same music you can buy from Qobuz. The music I bought from Qobuz was better than the ripped music from cd’s. That is why I bought many albums I love again from Qobuz. The thing I want to mention is that I love Pro Studio Maters a lot. Because they have often albums in Hi-Res which no other website has. When you only want the best possible, use only music you can buy and use a modified drive with a modified powersupply. It outperforms the best streaming quality available at this moment by planets in distance. It is a totally different league on it’s own. And mannn it is so addictive. The level in realism and emotion is just one big blessing. I never could dream that this level in music playback would even be possible. I listen to new music for about 3-4 hours each single week. I have to admit that the quality is still often limited and poor. It takes a lot of time to find the best music and also in a good quality. That is why I spend so much time in listening to new music. This is what I love most in life. When you can play music at the level I own now with a modified Lumin L1 drive (with a modified SBooster) to a Lumin X1 with a modified powersupply.It makes music even more addictive than it ever was before. |
I spend far over 200 euros on new music each single month. I have to admit I am addicted to music since I was 6 years old. I buy it from all over the world. Including DSD recordings. And many in hi-res. We are a Lumin dealer and Lumin specialist. We modify Lumin players and also the Lumin L1(drive). We do a lot of research in audio all the time. We work in this world for over 20 years of time. Our modified Lumin players outperform the most expensive CD-players if they where toys for little children. Most people do not understand sound. This is needed to understand and guide audio. Most people use separate dacs and often USB. They have no idea how much they all limit themselves. Diversity (layering) in sound is the most important part of all aspects/properties in sound. Due to the fact that this can create the most influence to the human emotion during listening to music. In this aspect and also regarding to the other aspects/properties of sound we outperform them all. Each human being will always choose that sound what creates the highest level in emotion during listening. And this is what we create. I read Qobuz is also now available in the US. I was one of the first members when it all started. I have a French membership. What gives me the lowest prices available when I buy music from them. I bought over 1000 albums alone on Qobuz. And many more on other websites all around the world. I am a born perfectionist who is only interested in the highest level possible. Everything what is less has no meaning. I was the first person in Europe who got the Lumin X1. Months before the first one in the US who got it. I use a modified powersupply of the X1. And 2 modified SBoosters for the modified Lumin L1 and 1 for my switch. When we compare streaming (and we use the same songs at the same bitrate) by Tidal and Qobuz with our modified Lumin L1 drive (with the modified SBooster). The modified Lumin L1 drive (with modified SBooster) outperforms streaming as it is audio for little children. People don’t know that much about sound in general Most people think and believe (based on assumptions) that digital audio is all about 0/1. And it is all the same. But.....audio is all about facts and what you can hear and percieve. The Modified Lumin L1 (with modified SBooster) to a Lumin X1 (with modified powersupply) creates a level to die for. This goes so much further than the best cd players I’ve ever auditioned. The same counts for the most expensive dacs and drives. This is emotion at a level people never experienced before. The people who create dacs and drives for manufacturers are all not happy with USB. They say; it is not made for audio, but for computers. The people who make the decisions for the protocols in audio make these decisions on personal benefit.....MONEY!!!!!! But money will never garantee you anything in audio. The facts proof that most digital sources cannot create a high level in diversity (layering) in sound. It doesn’t matter which dac, cables, upsampler or clocklink you will use. When a digital source owns a limited level in diversity (caused by the lack of different aspects/properties of sound) it will always own that limitation. Music is all about emotion. That is why you need an audio system what can reveal all the different aspects/properties of sound. But the biggest problem in audio is that most products are not able to reveal all the different aspects/properties of sound. So what is the reason why so many people are not that satisfied with their system? And why they are not moved by their system.......... Because their systems cannot reveal all the different aspects/properties of sound. You need them all to experience your beloved music at the highest level possible. All the different aspects/properties of sound can influence the human emotion during listening to music. This is why each single human being will always prefer and choose an audio system what can reveal all the different aspects/properties of sound. No one will ever choose for any incomplete trial and error created audio system. Due to the fact that trial and error systems create a much lower level in emotion. |
Coming late to the discussion. I understand all the benefits of streaming but it sort of reminds me of vinyl in that if it doesn't sound that good to you then the answer is that you need more and better gear to get all that it offers. And, as witnessed by this discussion it can get complex and really expensive. I buy great recordings on used CDs for $4-6. Pop them in CDP and get awesome SQ. Easy. Cheap. Yes, I've got them ripped. No, the SQ is not identical.....but I haven't put much effort and virtually no money into it. For me at this point the appeals of streaming are outweighed by the cost and complexity required to get to or above CD SQ. |
Totally agreed with georgehifi that when it comes to movies the physical 4k UHD discs would always have superior audio & video qualities to the 4k UHD streamings from say Netflix, Amazon Prime, Vudu, etc. The same applies to regular HD bluray counterparts (regular HD bluray discs 1080p vs regular HD streamings). The surround sound qualities are usually lossless HD audio formats (DTS HD-MA or Dolby True-HD) on regular bluray discs whereas regular HD streamings say from Netflix are usually lossy Dolby Digital or lossy DTS. Same applies to 4k UHD discs vs 4k UHD streamings. With 4k UHD discs the surround sound formats are mostly either Dolby Atmos or DTS-X or at least DTS HD-MA or Dolby True-HD. That’s why I do not stream movies. I only watch either regular bluray or 4k UHD discs from my Oppo UDP-205 4K UHD bluray disc player. |
My streamed movies from VUDU are identical to the same played from a Blu-Ray disk. VUDU is better.Many don't agree " VUDU transfers UHD at a bitrate of about 15mbps while 4k UHD discs can reach 50-60 mbps. That’s ALOT of compression on VUDUs side." https://www.google.com/search?q=VUDU+HD+quality+bad&rlz=1C1CHZL_enAU820AU820&oq=VUDU+HD+qual... https://www.reddit.com/r/vudu/comments/7pxeux/vudu_4k_uhd_streaming_vs_4k_uhd_bluray/ Cheers George |
sfcfran, your analogy while interesting is highly exaggerated and not completely accurate. Musical content just like other "data" is transmitted through packets and there are mechanisms along the path to ensure the integrity of the packets. Its not like a "wave" is traveling through air and going through wires and cables, etc. Also, in most if not all cases, satellite is not in play for music content transmissions but as a reference, many get suer high quality video content through the same path you described without even a single frame out of pace. Sorry about the tangent. |
Even with Hi-Res "Lossless". Look at what that signal is going thru to get to you. Its being pumped through a satellite somewhere, thru the air with (even a digital signal) various atmospheric interferences, solar radiation, etc. Then it gets to the receiving end of your cable company or internet provider, and is processed thru their mainframe, which could care less about your audiophile precision listening preferences. Then onward it goes thru miles of street cables (unless its Fiber, which we know has its own weeknesses for audio content), before coming thru your poll, just 18-24 inches under the magnetic fields of the main lines going to your house, and then into your computer, which for most people, is not necessarily a top tear audio platform with designated circuitry. Is & can Hi-Res be better than Redbook: Yes. Is it always better than Redbook after all that transmission grief: No. |
You may find this will be better than all of them. Naims new $25-30K flagship Reference R2R Multibit ND555 + power supply, network player still using the PCM1704 dac converters. http://www.theaudiobeat.com/news/naim_nd555.htm Cheers George |
I highly recommend the latest generation of Linn Klimax DS with Katalyst DAC architecture or latest gen of Linn Akurate DS with Katalyst DAC architecture as well as various Naim DS with a separate Naim power supply unit especially the 500 series Naim. These are highly musical sounding digital front end source components and will outperform many high end CD/SACD players. |
Some observations about the different streaming services for classical music: The best of course is IDAGIO because it is designed for classical. In classical works oftentimes there is no gap in between the tracks. Idagio, Qobuz and Spotify don’t insert any gaps, Tidal does. That ruins the continuity of the music. On Tidal, also, it is very difficult to find specific works by composers. Their search engine just doesn’t do that job well. Again, the best is IDAGIO, as it has many search engines. The other two services do a fair job. I, at first thought SQ was the best in Tidal, but in classical music anyway, they all seem pretty equal. |
