I’ve found that the SQ of my red book CDs exceeds that of streaming using the identical recordings for comparison. (I’m not including hi res technology here.) I would like to stop buying CDs, save money, and just stream, but I really find I enjoy the CDs more because of the better overall sonic performance. I stream with Chromecast Audio using the same DAC (Schiit Gumby) as I play CDs through. I’m wondering if others have had the same experience
Streaming is to CD, like CD/digital is to vinyl. They are both equalizers and that is deeply offensive to some. The thing is, today, you don't need to spend $50K, or $20K or even $10K to have near perfect digital to analog conversion. Benchmark, Qutest, fed by a reasonably low noise (electrically) USB source are near flawless. Paying more does not get you "better", it gets you a different flavor. Ditto for any number of non-OS DACs, ladder-DACs, etc. Often less accurate, but if you like the flavor, then enjoy. What is even more deeply offensive to some is just how good a $169 modern Topping DAC is again fed with good USB.
Now you have people who have curated huge (read expensive) CD libraries, 99% made obsolete for $14.99/Month, and available to any pleb at almost any level of income. That is almost as offensive to some as a $169 Topping DAC from China in many cases offering superior sound to a $10K or $20K (or more) turntable at least to those with no special affinity for the flavor of vinyl.
Jmarshak, The E-800 can be had BRAND NEW for 11K if you know where to shop. I had one. Where in the world do you come up with 20K for a 4 year old inferior model? Go to AUDIO UNION in Japan...grab a E650 for about 5000 (MSRP 6100) Pay somebody here in the USA to switch the jumpers for $100 and your good to go OR you can buy one here BRAND NEW for probably 7-8K
@lalitk I very much enjoy looking at your system and how it evolves over time. I know how much thought goes into it and that your amp is $20k not $6K :).
You have helped me out getting my streaming SQ up significantly over the last year and helped me get my entire cable loom in order.
Strictly a Classic Rock guy. If I need to hear something new I have many Thousands of unplayed CD's that Ive gotten from all my contacts in the music industry over the the past 30-35 years. Pretty much anything Ive heard after 1990 or so is not to my liking at all for the most part and winds up being donated for charity. I can assure you I'm never bored with my collection and there are always plenty of new mixes/re-masters/quadraphonic titles coming out for music from that generation. I'm amazed how much stuff has been rotting away in the vaults all these years and is only now coming out.
I hope I don't come off as a show off, but a few months ago I went to an audio dealer, wrote a check for $95000, got pissed at something the dealer said, and set fire to that $95000 right in front of the dealer. That's just how I roll.
In the last 11 years, I have spent almost 1.2 million on audio gear. No, I won't tell you the currency! And no, I won't show you the pictures of my equipment either, so quit asking!
riaa, it’s a shame that there is no music on the the thousands of free online radio stations of every genre or the seemingly unlimited selections provided by the paid streaming services that you might find interesting.
Versus putting on that CD or record that’s been played how many times?
Regardless of the sound quality (which is fine) you are missing out on a whole universe of fun.
"That riled me, but I held my temper as I asked, “What’s the matter with you?” He bellowed: “There’s nothing the matter with me. It’s you! You’re crazy if you think this fool contraption you’ve been wasting your time on will ever displace the horse.”
Accuphase E-650, Tannoy Canterbury?? Clearly in the "kiddie pool".
So listening at showrooms or in others homes is not "Direct experience"?. So I guess auditioning gear anywhere is a futile and worthless endeavor. LMK when you graduate from the minor leagues and get some real gear.
Noticed one of your prior posts where you state.....
Congrats on your purchase, looking forward to your
feedback. I also own N10 and N20 seems to be next logical progression.
May be someday I could afford W20SE :-)
So you dont even own the W20SE and dont have the coin? Doubt you have the MSB/Vivaldi/EMS Dacs either
Actually you can hear the Aurender W20SE with MSB/Vivaldi at Suncoast. Mike prefers the Disc Spinners/Clock combo himself...but what does he know. Might want to go to the AudioShark Forums to see his comparisons.
I know, sadly some of these folks are just stuck in their ways. They shamelessly continue to peddle their archaic experiences. One of them here listens to Spotify and then make ‘noise’ about compression 😂
“put up the Spotify links showing they have the best DR versions also "with the catalogue number" so we can check it on the DR website.?”
And then those who makes ridiculously outlandish claims like “if streaming could come close to a 70K-80K spinner clock combo”.
They have obviously never heard a system consist of Aurender W20SE, Taiko Extreme or Pinkfaun 2.16 Ultra with MSB, Vivaldi or EMM Labs DAC’s.
What generation Esoteric are you referring to?? 20K doesn't buy you TOTL and Im guessing your experience is with one that still used chips. Hell the MSRP on the Clock alone is 30K-ish. Ive ONLY heard streamers when going over to listen to other peoples systems for your info. Ive spent north of 300K in the past 2-3 years on my gear alone and if streaming could come close to a 70K-80K Spinner/Clock combo I WOULD certainly pick one up. I could use the extra space.
Dealers are not making the profit margin on the few new "good cd only transports", that they can make on the multitude of streamers out there.
Whenever a streamer (doesn’t matter what) comes to my place for an a/b shootout, it can’t match the CD transports dynamic range, using the same MSB discrete dac level matched, this is as I’ve mostly stated, different compressed releases being streamed, as my cd’s are the best DR ones released (usually the first), http://dr.loudness-war.info/ or it "maybe" that the streaming company compresses to stream.
But if the CD with transport is recorded to a streamers H/D then replayed that’s another story, it’s a lot closer, almost undetectable.
“Streamers are great for experimentation but not for sound quality”
@riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook,
Comment like above tells me you have no experience with streamers or you’re too cheap / lazy to invest in a SOTA streamer setup. It appears you have yet to hear a good streaming setup.
My streamer / DAC setup smokes any $20K Esoteric CD/SACD player. I know so cause I have done the A/B comparison in my home.
Lalitk, Maybe you should try a Top of the Line Spinner/Dac like Esoteric with a Clock and compare it to your streamer. Dealers that carry both streamers and Esoteric/MSB/Gryphon etc will tell you there is no comparison. Me thinks some people arent stubborn to change...they simply can afford the best and not compromise. Streamers are great for experimentation but not for sound quality. I think people are just too lazy to get off their butt and put a new disc in every 45 minutes.
Thanks for asking! I’m not sure if I mentioned it before, but I bought a Benchmark DAC3, and a GeerFab digital extractor. Both units made a big difference. How about you?
Streaming files are no different than CD or Vinyl pressings. We have great sounding albums on CD’s or Vinyl’s and bad one’s too. I am not saying there is no truth here, there are plenty of rock albums that don’t sound good on Streaming but they also suck on other formats too. Some of us are fortunate enough to own good copies that sourced from original master tapes. IME, there are plenty of great sounding files on Qobuz / Tidal that sound as good as CD or better.
Some people loves to make unnecessary ‘noise’ about compression...funny thing is they don’t even have a streaming setup. They are just too stubborn to get out of their comfort zone and adapt to present or future.
One word, compression. Either by the streaming company to save on size when streaming. Or because they used the compressed later release version of the music they stream, even though it’s the same piece. The uncompressed harder to find versions always sound better.
I would hope that the major streaming services that tout the quality of their music are not compressing the files during the upload process; ie, Qobuz who offers CD quality and hires. Although limited compression may be required and acceptable.
As far as the selection of albums available, it's getting harder to find an original release. Most versions are now over-compressed with poor dynamic range. This is the case for the rock/pop genre, even some jazz such as the ECM remasters. I can always find a better quality release in my CD collection.
I’ve found that the SQ of my red book CDs exceeds that of streaming using the identical recordings for comparison.
One word, compression. Either by the streaming company to save on size when streaming. Or because they used the compressed later release version of the music they stream, even though it’s the same piece. The uncompressed harder to find versions always sound better. Prove it to your self, buy these two and compare http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Golden+Earring&album=Moontan
I’ve found that the SQ of my red book CDs exceeds that of streaming
using the identical recordings for comparison. [...] I’m wondering if others have had the same experience
Jumping in a bit late and admit I haven't read the bulk of the thread. Riddle me this. I am using a custom gaming pc as my source with an asus dsx soundcard outputing via AQ carbon coax spdif feeding a Bryston Bda 1 balanced out to a Krell Showcase then on to my Levinson 334 for stereo left right channels. Tidal sounds much more dynamic and better than my ripped local files that sit on a ssd. I am not even using hard wire networking I am using wifi. My Jriver is setup wasapi output and so on. This doesn't make sense.
@missingtime where does the ethernet cable go? My Apple TV is ethernet hard wired (like it better than Airplay) - going into OPPO105 (to split the HDMI sound) - coax out from OPPO going into Benchmark DAC. How can I use a better ethernet cable? Will a better HDMI cable help too since the sound is really coming from HDMI source?
Not trying to go off topic here - but as mentioned earlier @kalali to add a reclocker between chromecast and dac to reduce jitter - question is why when your dac really should be taking care of the jitter (benchmark dac1)? Do you really need to add a reclocker?
Thanks for the info. I went to their website to see if I could get more info and see a sign up tap stating
"Join the waitlist to become a US Beta tester" ..... Is that what you did?
I also have a friend (that uses an Aurender) in the US that ended up with a Qobuz account coded to the United Kingdom who can receive 24/96 but not full 24/192 resolution.
@ron17, I’m based in the US. My subscription is showing as Qobuz Studio in the Aurender. I’m on the 30 free trial, but it did say that if I don’t cancel, the subscription will continue after 30 days. I’m currently listening to John Coltrane’s Blue Train in it’s full 24/192 glory. I double checked the DAC to make sure :). Beautiful sounding. I’m sure as Qobuz gets closer and closer to the full launch, features will be released in advance. I'm a happy camper! One thing to note is that since I'm using an Aurender to stream, the streaming options maybe different from the desktop beta released Qobuz app for windows/mac. In my Aurender, I see an option choice for HiRes - 24bits / up to 192kHz and that's what I have selected.
I too have been looking forward to the release of Qobuz in the US but was told recently that the full release (including 24/192 resolution) would be delayed another month or two. Are you in the US, and are you using the trial version?
Are you able to stream Qobuz in 24bit/192kHz resolution? I tried the free trial that limits you to hear files in 24bit/96kHz resolution, which is quite good. And yes, from what I heard Qobuz streaming is a step forward than Tidal.
Those of you guys using Tidal as a reference to compare streaming to CDs, there is hope. Spent last night comparing Qobuz to Tidal and Qobuz gets you so much closer to CD sound than Tidal ever did. In my system, I use to think it was the streamer or cables that wasn’t up to par but it’s looks like it was always the music data source. At else in my system Qobuz via an Aurender N100h sounds better than CDs playing through my CDP transport. I will be switching over to Qobuz.
I continue to see negative posts about how streaming quality is not on par with CD resolution. Please don’t expect to be wowed by plug n play devices (like Chromecast) and streaming providers that don’t offer CD resolution, case in point Pandora and Spotify. As one of the member pointed out, this kind of setup is good enough for parties not for serious listening experience.
Invest in a good streaming device / DAC, subscribe to Tidal and ensure following steps,
Never use WIFI for streaming music content to your network player,
Limit network traffic when playing an online stream,
Use software optimized for sound quality,
Use high-end network adapter & switch,
Upgrade your router,
Replace generic ethernet patch cords with audio grade LAN cables.
I can say unequivocally streaming in my system has surpassed all of my expectations and I enjoy streaming just as much as spinning my CD/SACD’s collection.
rvpiano finally going to complete my system. I enjoyed an audition with Pass Labs X-150.8 power amp earlier this week. Considering cabling and pre-amp options now. I will keep you posted. Happy Listening!
@rvpiano, did you listen to CD's and vinyl recordings in their entirety? If so I wonder i you do the same while streaming. One of the things I like about CD's and vinyl is that when I put one on, I always listen to the entire record.
As I said to a friend recently, the world of music open to you through streaming is akin to the era of free sex in the sixties and seventies prior to AIDS.
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