Sonus Faber Question

@jdm11 - it's good to explore electronics, but if you purchase speaker first, it's probably better that after break-in it'll be much more informative determining which way sonically you wish to go so that we can make better suggestions

OP,

Thanks for your kind words.

@krell303  Thanks for pointing out the brand - a free consultation would be great and totally agree on the WAF. Awesome find appreciate it.   

@rick_n Another nice find thanks for that - totally agree on the WAF for this as well!

@alexatpos I appreciate you taking the time to compose that post - it definitely helps me understand the product lines in terms of chronology and potential quality as compared to one another. Very helpful since there have been so many lines over the years, and being new to the brand myself, sorting through pieces when they have become available on the used market has been difficult in terms of ranking potential value and quality relative to one another. Interesting regarding the SFs as well - good to have more options from the same family more or less to choose from.  

@ghdprentice  Thanks for jumping back in. I'm definitely not a headbanger (anymore) - my tastes are in blues, jazz, 70s and 80s, Floyd, Dead, singer songwriter, reggae, 40s-50s vocals, CSN, Radiohead, Talking Heads, female vocals, eclectic along those lines. No loud metal, rap, opera, country, very little classical. And you're definitely not out on a limb just curious to get your guess having heard the i-50 pairing. Otherwise I'm just searching the internet for random reviews and opinions. Hearing that you have a PrimaLuna in your office makes the guess even more educated. So your summation makes a lot of sense to me in regard to the low risk move and its place in the upgrade cycle. A very helpful post. If I start now and make wise moves in this and future upgrade cycles maybe my system can look like yours at the end of the day. Wow!

OP,

If you stated this already, I apologize. What kind of music do you listen to?

My feeling is that, unless you are a real head banger the PrimaLuna Evo300 should be adequate and you will experience a very significant improvement in sound quality. I use the word adequate because there are a lot of variables… I am feeling like I am getting pretty far out on a limb here. I have a PrimaLuna amp in my office. The pairing should sound very good. But, the power level is getting a bit low. From my listening to the ARC i-50 with the SF Nova Olympica was in a small room and they sounded fantastic and not at all constrained, but in a very large room it might be different.

However, I think ithe purchase would be very low risk. I think they would sound good / great and if PrimaLuna is either slightly underpowered or less refined, then you should be able to enjoy them until the time comes you can upgrade your electronics. In many ways this would be a classic upgrade cycle. Get a better speaker… save up and then upgrade electronics. So, from this perspective… sounds like a great move, gettin speakers you can grow into over time.

Any thoughts or comments regarding the 

Serafino G2? I’m just beginning my search for new speakers. 
I listened to the KEF Reference 5 Meta. I was very impressed. 
Thanks to all. 

@jdm11 , SF Olympica series are basically successor of former Cremona line and are priced accordingly, somewhere in the middle of SF range. Olympica 3' price was around 12t eur in Europe when it was launched, very close to the Guarneri Evolution (around 15t eur, with the stands)  which was part of the same generation of speakers (in terms of date of production). Aldo some can object to the very notion of 'monitor' speakers (to be equal or better than standmount) it is generally considered among SF fans that Guarneri is 'better' product, or at least was made with that intention.The US importer of SF obviously thinks that way, as he has put hefty price on GE, making it some 10t usd more expensive than O3 (in europe that difference is perhaps 3t) Anyway, if speaking only about the speakers and if you can find them similarly priced, Guarneri is more refined product of higher quality. It will have less bass (which in smaller rooms might be an advantage), but 'more' of everything else. Depending on music that you listen (jazz or classical for example), you should enjoy it more. It will 'demand' higher quality electronics to show its best, must be said. At the end, it all depends how demanding you are. Olympica 3 is a great allrounder, but if you wish something more, or something 'special', I would look at other solutions, including ones from Franco Serblin's new company, that I have mentioned before. Last, but not least, imho all SF benefits from amps that have more power. They can work with tube amps, but are not build with intention to be paired with them.

https://www.atma-sphere.com/en/resources-paradigms-in-amplifier-design.html

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1285:nrc-measurements-sonus-faber-olympica-iii-loudspeakers&Itemid=153

If your main listening position on the couch is too far back maybe get a side chair and just place it in the sweet spot for critical listening and put it back off to the side for proper WAF.  How about putting some casters on an Eames chair and rolling it when you want to listen??

@jdm11 ,

Stillpoints Aperture II panels are on expensive side but you need just a few of them instead of covering most of the walls and ceilings with cheaper and uglier diffusers and absorbers. At the end you are not spending more because you'll need just a few panels.  WAF is a big plus also.

Give a call to Stillpoints for a free consultation - even if you are not going with their product, they will share a wealth of the room acoustic- related information with you: very educational.

@ghdprentice  Since you heard the i50 with the Olympica Nova 3 and liked the result would you think my PrimaLuna Evo 300 would pair well with the Olympica 3? I know you it was the Olympica Nova 3 with the i50 (and I know PrimaLuna isn't Audio Research) but as they are both tube integrateds at similar price points and the speakers are the same line (albeit at different evolutions) would you think the pairing would make sense as there are a lot of similarities, it seems (PrimaLuna Evo300 with Olympica 3)? 

Sonus Faber needs power if you are using solid state. They are easily driven by tube amps. I am using 70 wpc with my Audio Research Ref 160s (triode mode). They sound fantastic at low volumes and can play without compression or loss of dynamics to crazy loud volumes > 95db. Most are 90db efficient. I have hear Olympica Nova 3 with an Audio Research i50 (50wpc) … sounds fantastic.

SF's need power. I use 100W to drive Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolutions.

Wow there's really a lot of great information here thank you for the input everybody. A lot of combined experience on this thread it seems.

@wsrrsw - Thanks for that example & site recommendation. Regardless of the move I make speaker-wise it seems like experimenting with a couple panels is a no brainer. I can't do a third center panel between the speakers in my layout because the window is there but can at least messing with placement for one per speaker.

@garebear - I have to admit I am curious about amplification recommendation goals as I move up the Sonus Faber line. @kennyc alluded to the same logical eventuality earlier in the post. If either of you have thoughts on amplification for future reference I wouldn't mind picking your brains on the topic.

@alexatpos - Thank you for your thoughts. This touches upon a huge gap in my knowledge. I have only owned floor standing tower speakers. So I haven't looked into their monitor style speakers / stands. I'd be interested to check out the models you mentioned. Is there a way you might be able to relay the sound benefits / signature / differences between the monitor style models you mentioned vs a speaker like the Olympica III for example, which has been mentioned a few times? Is it primarily the thought they would be more appropriate for the room size / layout or would you say you could obtain better sounding monitor speakers for the same cost?  

@rick_n I can get away with the speakers approximately 36'' from the wall max if people are around. They are light and easy to move out further when listening by myself after the kiddos have gone to sleep. The speakers are actually just about that exact 8.5' from each other which is good then. It's actually easier to move my speakers tan the seat because we have a sectional. Unless I hang out on the ottoman!

@dayglow Interesting thoughts I'd like to take advantage of the trickle-down tech if there's a big leap forward in this G2 series. But even then I wonder with the depreciation of used gear value-wise wouldn't you still get better value buying a better line used? I'm not sure how to weigh that... 

@jdm11 The Senetto G2 series release date is in July? Since SF usually updates in a 5 year + cycle go with the newer model(s) especially in mid/lower lines where more improvements can be made with each update. Also your speaker will stay current for a good 5 years maintaining resale value and a quicker sale if desired.

Unless the speakers are right against the walls, which isn't ideal, your listening position at 14' away is too far.  Measure how far apart the speakers are from tweeter to tweeter then multiply that by 128% and use that for a starting position for your listening distance.  With your front wall being 14' your speakers probably should be no more than 8.5' apart which would make your listening position something like 11' or less away from the tweeters.  I hope that you have the ability to nuance the listening position distance.  If not can you move the speakers further into the room?

As a long time owner of many SF speakers (Gp home, cremona auditor, cr auditor m, Guarneri homage and than couple from Franco Serblin's new company, Lignea and now Accordo) and by looking the size of your room, I would strongly advise you to choose smaller speaker than many has suggested, meaning 'monitor' on the stand, instead of full range sized speaker. Furthermore, there is a brick and mortar dealer of SF and now Franco Serblin's speakers in my home town and I have had a chance to extensively listen many of their designs, including hearing the 'inside' impressions from experienced personal. (for examp. Olympica 2 is 'no no' model in their line up.

My room is aprox 12x18 and have enough space behind and on the sides, the furniture is not on the way, have no problems with waf factor and still thought that Guarneri is a bit big (if you want really to hear what that speaker can play, in terms of stage and positioning on it) for that room. Yours is slightly larger, but I would be very hesitant to put 'big' speaker in it.

I am quite certain that (for the same money) you may buy smaller, but 'better' speaker and more importantly, one that suits your space more. If possible, would also advise you to hear few models of Franco Serblin's new company, like Accordo, Accordo Essence or perhaps  new Accordo Goldberg. Since Franco Serblin is creator of Sonus Faber, you should not overlook his newer designs as imho, he is the 'real deal'.(aldo Essence and Goldberg are made by his son in law) Not to take anything from SF of today, but still...Electa Amator 3, Maxima Amator or perhaps Guarneri (Serblin's older Memento or perhaps newer Evolution) are also fine choice. Best of luck in your search

……love it ! We are talking about Sonus Faber speakers as per the OP’s request and you havevthis yahoo saying Devore Fidelity speakers . Unbelievable……. I owned the Cremona’s the Cremona M’s then on to the Olympics III’s and then the Amati Homage’s. I enjoyed them all but realized as was previously noted ……you need a good amp with a lot of current for them to really sing. I found that out too late in my search. I would suggest solid state but that is only my opinion as I never used tubes with them……they love power. 

@jdm11 Just FYI. A lot of places will help you (for free) come up with treatment plans. Here's one from Music City Acoustics. This is full blown but just a few panels can sure help. 

Thanks krell got it! Posts posted out of order

Would those be for behind the speaker, to the side, both, elsewhere? I am a total novice regarding treatments

@jdm11,

Try 3 Steelpoints Aperture II panels - two on the first left/right side reflection points and one between speakers. I decided to give them a try in my similarly sized room (19 x14) - just out of curiosity and 60 days return policy.

Worked as magic - room boundaries seem to disappear and imaging became spot on. Later I’ve added one more panel on the wall behind my listening position. No more need for MacIntosh MEN220 though it served me well as a sub crossover also.

Thanks wsrrsw

Anyone know how big the difference is between the Olympica II and III?

Also would either or both Olympicas likely be superior to the new Sonetto G2 line dayglow mentioned?

Olympica-ii

@curiousjim      FWIW have heard both speakers... Amati G5 and Lilium from the reference series. The Lilium had all Burmester electronics featuring the 216 amp in stereo. The sound was sublime. On the other hand the Amati G5 driven by Atoll AM 400 signatures in mono block mode with the matching PR 400 signature preamp. Not sure if the digital source was MAC/Atoll or DCS. The sound was very disappointing with uncontrolled booming bass with harsh treble and slightly muffled mids. I asked if the speakers were fully broke in? He replied yes, so this again proves watts are cheap and the Atoll is not a synergistic match, at least to my ears.

Thanks everyone

Regarding budget I was hoping trade-in on the Sonetto IIIs (excellent condition, all original boxes, etc.) plus 5k to 6k max if possible (and worthwhile in terms of the jump in sound quality) would be the budget. 

Room treatment insight would be welcome. The room is imperfect, to say the least, but there is no chance of changing rooms. You have:

- A rectangle 14 X 26

- Large bay windows on either side of the long end (on the 14' walls)  

- Bay windows constitute the center 10' of the 14 total feet of each end

- System and speakers must go on one of the 14' walls

- Same issue for both 14' wall - 10' of windows in the center with 2' of sheetrock on either side

- On one 26' wall (and on both ends of it) you have a 4' run of sheetrock (where the system and speakers must stay) then an open 3' doorway that cannot be closed (no actual doors). In the middle of that wall is a large fireplace and built-in bookshelves

- On the opposite 26' wall you have a 14' window with 6' of sheetrock on either side

- The floor is carpet

- The ceiling is 8'

- The speakers are on spikes

- The primary listening position is 14' from the speakers

- Speakers are 2 1/2' from the wall (TV, etc. in center of the 14' wall) 

- Room is pretty heavily furnished and decorated

Sonus Faber speakers have a lot of potential due to getting tonality and timbre correct. SF needs to improve on dynamics/cabinet resonance and bass control/definition especially from the Nova line and below. The cement resin bases on the new Sonetto G2 line appears promising on correcting some of these issues. Looking forward to the long-awaited Nova update hopefully they get much closer to the current Homage line.

Upgrade budget?

@baylinor is right. Treat room and you’re in for a treat. First reflection piint is the most important.

OP, I have nothing to add to the multiple speaker upgrade suggestions, but yet there is no mention of room treatments. No clue what yours are, if any, as you don't mention it or post pics of your setup. Starting with room treatments is the best way to hear what each piece of equipment is truly capable of. That alone would save you lots of money in equipment swapping attempting to reach your audio nirvana. Start with a solid foundation, just my two cents. 

I have been trying to hear the Sonus Farber Amati for months now and am getting very frustrated.  No one in my state has a demo pair to listen to and I’ve tried several times to schedule a demo of the Lilium’s ( Because they were close) and several times something happened to prevent the demo!

Devore Fidelity any 

mazian - I also have the SF Sonetto V's. What does your system consist of. I feel like I'm lacking something and have considered upgrading to another SF 

My first SF speakers were the Serafinos and I moved up to Il Cremonese which was a substantial step up over everything below it in the line. I’ve had a chance to listen to a lot of their speakers and it seems that that is the norm, each move up in the line results in a pretty significant improvement. Nova threes could be had for nine or $10,000 and I think you would find that would be a good upgrade. The last model Serafinos would be closer to 15 or 16 but those are truly superb and may do you for many years. The good news is that , at least to my ears, Each step up is a worthwhile upgrade. If you like the SF sound, you will just get a lot more of what you like about it with each step up. Good luck.

In like new condition with the stands - $10 - 14K.

I listen primarily for jazz, classical (including orchestral works), some progressive rock - never really feel need for sub in the medium sized room (14' x 19'). Guarneri EVOs go down to 40Hz, so...

I later added JL Audio Fathom 112 sub crossed at 63Hz (room dependent), but for jazz and acoustical music kept it off. 

Thanks Kenny that's the plan. 

wsrrsw - Checking those out now

Mazian - I just checked those Serafinos out - those are the most amazing looking speakers I have ever seen. They would be a far in the future 2nd step up for me and my budget unfortunately. Interesting to hear your thoughts on the V's vs Olympica 3's I thank you for your input.

Plenty out there.

I have Sonus Fabers and wow. 

If you like the signature Sonus Faber sound, I wouldn't even consider opting for the more neutral, detailed, transparent and dynamic sounding Revel speakers, no matter how good the deal.  Just explore speakers further up the Sonus Faber line and you should come up smelling like roses.  I much prefer the Revel speaker signature sound myself.       

For me Serafino's would be the most logical upgrade but not only would there be a big upgrade in sound quality, even over the Olympica Nova range, but also regrettably a big increase in price. However they would probably be the last speakers you buy. Incidentally I have the Sonetto V's but also tried the Olympica 3,s but thought that in my room at least the improvement over the Sonetto's was not worth the extra cost. I'm saving up for the Serafino's.

Thank you krell I will look into those as well. Two questions if you catch this - sub needed with these? Any idea what to pay for them in the used market?

Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution used - with Prima Luna it will be an excellent setup and a big jump from Olympica.

I've got a very good deal on Revel Ultima Salon 2, which is a fabulous full range speaker, but keep my Guarneries still - cannot part with them.

Thanks for that info! I wish I hadn't made so many lateral moves myself but that's the reason for the thread; live and learn. The rabbit hole of reviews and omnipresent thread arguments is time consuming and, more often than not, less than informative. I'm really glad to get the info / feedback I've gotten here. I was hopeful but was half expecting the usual series of sidebars about other speaker manufacturers that are better, etc.     

Big fan of Sonus Faber.   From their modestly priced speakers all the way up the chain they deserve a great amp.   

I just gave my brother my Concertos and he is loving them.   My Dad has a pair of Elector Amatar  III and they are pretty amazing  for their size.   

Do they even make a bad speaker ?   I don't think so....   

I often take ghdprentice's advice with respect to upgrades and such.   He is usually spot on with advice.   His best advice I've taken, avoid lateral moves.   It's good advice that has made me save a little more, wait a little longer, maybe buy used ....  but rarely have buyer's remorse. 

Hey Ken thanks for that feedback. I definitely agree amplification upgrades will be on the horizon after the speakers - I certainly will reach out again to learn more about those options moving forward. Appreciate it!      

+1 @ghdprentice who knows SF speakers very well. After speakers upgrade, likely next sonic move is to upgrade your electronics (integrated). So assuming you take @ghdprentice speaker update advice, after breakin and extended listening, if you still want improvement then reach out again with your current thoughts and which direction you’d like to go.

Awesome thank you for that response just the kind of information garnered from experience I was hoping for. I'm going to check those out greatly appreciated! 

I am a fan of Sonus Faber for the same reason you are. I am on my third set. I started with used Cremona -> Olympica 3 -> Amati Traditional. Very good question. I think you will find Olympica 3  a very large jump up. The Olympica 3 has been replaced by the Olympica Nova so that should put some downward pressure on used Olympica 3. I would imagine you could get a pair for ~$8K. This would be very substantial improvement in sound.