Some of the Worst Offenders in Bad Audio Forum Behavior Are Not Regular Forum Members

I belong to one forum (a wine forum) where real names and industry affiliations must be disclosed.  It is far and away the most civil internet forum I've ever participated in.  It is also the only one that has resulted in friendships outside the forum (e.g., meeting in person to enjoy wine together).

While I see your point, I've also witnessed poster's here on Audiogon that have regularly withheld their professional affiliations, and ergo their potential biased conflicts of interest.

@unsound

I think we've all witnessed that first hand on one forum or another. When the salesmanship or torpedoing gets too obvious, in most well moderated forums, the moderator steps in to either curtail the behavior or demand disclosure. I think in the fairly well known case of Archimago, however, you can see my point. Not everyone who happens to be knowledgeable and possess a contrarian viewpoint or experience, wants to have his/her name bandied about the internet. And this fact can be used as a crutch for censorship. Sadly, I think that is what has happened in Archimago's case.

@cedargrover  

Yes Cedar, but then, how often do you run into someone on a wine forum that blurts out something along the lines of "that merlot truly sucks!".  Deep down, I think they know that being that frank would leave them high and dry on that company's next wine tasting line... Civil behavior and decorum is pretty much a requirement to play the game, no?

I agree with everything stated so far as there are many ways a forum can be handled. It seems to all boil down to the integrity of the individual. Forum members can be anonymous and maintain levels of civility but that is not always the case, as seen here on A'gon. 

Anonymity can give one license to be abusive, mean, and uncivil. Being up front about who you are demands otherwise, as if you were conversing face to face.

Demanding full disclosure from someone can be a device to intimidate and silence voices you don't want to hear from, no matter the validity of their views. 

You can always find examples for both schools of thought, which doesn't make it easier to decide how to proceed. In the case you cite, I think JA went too far in trying to silence a voice he didn't want to hear.

All the best,
Nonoise

Assuming the interest is keeping everyone honest, if  one gives even the appearance of trying to sell something they should be required to disclose.  

However my observation is Audiogon is interested in selling things and not in keeping people honest.    So it is what it is.

Hi @cj1965 ,

Take a trip through wineberserkers.com , a wine forum that allows anonymity. It gets every bit as childish as any other internet forum. I submit (respectfully) that you are wrong to think that wine is a topic above the fray...

I think some people use internet anonymity as an excuse to be the jerk they always wanted to be in real life. I don’t think it does the world much good, and I really would be more interested in a "real name" and "full disclosure" audio site.

@cedargrover

Very interesting bit of info there. Thanks. For what it's worth, I don't doubt for a minute that sites requiring full disclosure have a tendency to force participants to be on their best behavior. Human nature being what it is, no real surprise there. I don't know what the percentages are. In my own personal experience (all I can base it on), "full disclosure" sites are very rare and like Nonoise eloquently stated, both approaches certainly have their strengths and challenges.

If you go over to the Audio Asylum forums, John Atkinson is a regular in the Critics forum where most members bash various audio brands and people associated with the industry.  Mr. Atkinson has been very forthright in his answers and many times he is called names, etc.  I find him to be one of the most honest people in the industry and he has more integrity than most others.  No, I am not affiliated with Stereophile or any other magazine or audio manufacturer.  I actually feel bad for him at the beatings he takes from very unkind people and he always answers in the most professional manner.

Regarding the Stereophile forum, since it is essentially his magazine, he can do what he likes in that forum.  That is my humble opinion.

@stereo5

Unquestionably, the editor at Stereophile can "do what he likes" with the forum he closely moderates. Not a lot of insight in that statement. Whether or not he goes on other forums and receives criticism/praise from others is equally irrelevant and lacking in pertinence or insight with respect to this thread. Factually, he has done little to curtail the excesses of some of the well known writers that appear on the Stereophile website and in print. Some of the most offensive swearing and vitriol I've witnessed in forums over the past five years has come from regular Stereophile writers and staff responding to criticism in a variety of forums on the net. The bottom line of this thread is to point up the hypocrisy of a "policy" that censors well qualified, well intentioned, and yes, WELL BEHAVED private individuals from posting information on their site simply because the information disagrees with what Stereophile and its staff are pushing - under the guise of the poster's failure to disclose his/her personal identity and possible affiliations. Mr. Atkinson may indeed be a pleasant fellow to deal with in person. That's not the subject of this thread. His errant "policy" is. You will never find him demanding such disclosure from posters who agree with his often times erroneous, misleading, or agenda ridden statements. Only those who present opposing views/evidence. If that were not IN FACT the case, you can be sure this thread would not exist.

Perhaps you should write to Mr. Atkinson and express directly to him the concerns you are raising here. I quit reading magazines long ago so have no sense of the current editorial tone of Stereophile. If the staff is obnoxious on other fora, that doesn’t reflect well on the publication in my estimation. I do believe that disclosure of professional or commercial interests is appropriate, but if you say that Atkinson is not even-handed in imposing such requirements, you should bring that to his attention as well. Do they still publish a "reader" "Letters" section?
PS: I think the real danger in not disclosing industry or commercial interests isn’t necessarily the heavy-handed sales pitch, but the presentation of information, as such, without revealing possible bias (or the appearance of bias). I don't think such bias is a foregone result of an industry or commercial affiliation. Valuable information can be provided by those involved in product development, particularly since I doubt there is much funding available outside of industry applications for such research. It would seem to me that any one in the industry or with commercial ties to it should also use their real names (unless there is some 'whistleblowing' aspect to their activities), but perhaps I'm in the minority. 

" It would seem to me that any one in the industry or with commercial ties to it should also use their real names (unless there is some 'whistleblowing' aspect to their activities) " whart

@whart

Yes, whistleblowing and the fear of reprisal is very much a problem with a lot of industries - not just this tiny segment of the consumer electronics industry. The trade "press" salespeople like those employed by Stereophile are looked upon as a necessary evil. It's no secret that a number of manufacturers avoid them like the plague as much of what is said in reviews bears no relation to any kind of reality. It is and has been a pay to play system for a very long time. It's not difficult for anyone with a technical background to see through most of the ridiculous smoke screens they call "reviews".
Case in point (without mentioning names of people or products). A loudspeaker with an off the shelf 10 inch driver mated to a 1 inch dome tweeter was given high praise a while back. It was clear from the review/write up that a cozy relationship existed between the "manufacturer" and the editors/writers. And it was also clear that the loudspeaker had massive, highly predictable problems, which were born out in the measurements. A faint reference to poor integration between the two drivers was given without acknowledging it was a basic design flaw resulting in very uneven off axis response. The conclusion given was along the lines of "despite design challenges/compromises, the designer achieved what he set out to accomplish and with some careful setup/adjustment, the end result can be good. "  What should have been said is that the designer violated some very basic principles, needlessly crippling performance because of a lack of knowledge/experience, resulting in a product that can't be recommended - especially considering there are many properly designed speakers costing many thousands less that outperform it in just about every category.

When was the last time you heard that kind of a review about anything from the likes of Stereophile or The Absolute Sound? Throughout its history, I can think of only one or two such reviews from Stereophile.

To educated professionals in the business, these trade magazines offer the illusion of integrity and honesty and nothing more. Mr. Atkinson's blatant censorship policy with respect to an unknown who has no industry affiliations - a person like Archimago - is a shining example of just how corrupt the "audiophile trade press" really is. Sadly, this pay to play game has helped decimate what was at one time a much larger market segment. The focus shift to ever more costly "audio jewelry" in recent years has accelerated the demise - to the extent that there really no longer is a presence at the CES. This year was a disaster. And the trade press have no one else to blame. With their greed, they brought it on themselves.

the above was an obviously biased and non factual rant.

I don’t like to ’take sides’ in these internet arguments (but it does not mean that I don’t!), as the best that can be done for a manufacturer..when doing so..is to lose market share, lose potential customers, or lose prior customers.

People bend/shift subconsciously in the face of pain/dislike more than they consciously bend in the face of reason/like. That they emote their way to a narrow path more than they think their way to clear skies. In clever hands, this unrealized (by most) aspect of humanity is a doorway for manipulation. Expect it to be used, and used often. As it is. It is a standard tool in the propaganda toolkit.

In the final analysis, forum anonymity is a backward premise that has to go. Bad actors require loopholes in order to be bad actors, and they will quite logically gravitate to places that allow for the bad acting to take place and be of service to them.

Wordsmiths aren’t automatically innocent nor clear of conscience. They are merely good wordsmiths. And since everyone does not know everything about all subjects, nor is intelligence in perception and scope of view equal in all people... then...the good, intelligent, quick witted ’wordsmith’ can bend the word in order to service an agenda, be the agenda correct and humane --- or not.

This sort of wordsmithing has been the stock and trade of the Machiavellian psychopath for as long as humans have gathered and had societies. Socially, culturally, politically, etc...wordsmithing is at the heart of manipulating, shifting and enthralling groups of people in the given varied directions. the number of wars that have been launched and fought, in the wake of directed wordsmiths are, realistically....nearly uncountable. The aspects of human life that have been manipulated by the same sort of wordsmithing are also..uncountable.

Psychopathology is everywhere and is particularly rampant-and self feeding accelerating and spreading as the methodology of commonality among forums and contentious subjects ---forums where the authors and participants are allowed anonymity.

Essentially, John is right in calling the person out.

Be professional, be real when speaking on subjects that have the fortunes of others attached to it.... be as a known entity, >> or.... shut the heck up<<<, as your words come from behind a curtain, a curtain where any motivation and agenda may be going on. Your value to the conversation must be weighted in it’s full context otherwise the missive is meaningless and/or weighted by hidden motivations and drives. Forums deserve no exemption that public speaking in groups is not entitled to. In public (in person) groups, you receive exactly zero anonymity. And bad behaviour almost never takes place there. No space for it to exist. 

Importantly...Psychopaths have done incredibly well with their faces and names known. Imagine what happens when you give them a curtain to hide behind. Imagine what happens when they program AI bots. (cutting edge technology is generally -at least- a generation beyond your given public perceptions and knowing..that's just the way things are)

Thus, forums are where the psychopathic tendencies will show themselves, as they are one of the only public avenues where it can comfortably thrive..so the forums will be overloaded with such.

A clue for you, is that when you read on forums, you speak the words in your own head, and this involves the ego and the internal voice. Which is a direct doorway to the unconscious in you, the subconscious and drives/motivation system. It’s a form of auto-hypnosis.

There’s a lot more to it, but suffice it to say, when manipulating groups, forums..now that they exist..forums have become excellent tools to systems of oligarchy with respect to manipulating masses. They are difficult to control, these forums and manipulations of them... but the cheddar/opportunity of total manipulation is there in spaces, in taste, feel, and reality.... so expect it (ie, AI bot posting armies from black entities and bad actor government branches, etc) to not improve, but to worsen. Raise your game or lose it all.

@ teo_audio

No one is manipulating or controlling anything here. And John Atkinson, by censoring Archimago, "called no one out" other than himself. I would expect people in the cable industry who have relied very heavily on the whitewash pass they've gotten from Stereophile to come running to Mr. Atkinson's defense....et voila....here they come....

....Welcome to Teo Audio - Welcome to the "new physics of cables"

No offense Mr. Teo_Audio, but this thread is a "BS free zone". You will not get a "free pass" from me - either with respect to the mumbo jumbo garbage you peddle about cables or about a knowledgeable, well intentioned forum member (Archimago) who values his privacy and does not wish to be a big fat target for crooks in the recording industry.

One last thought, your rambling rant of a post above is one of the worst examples I've seen of hundreds of words slung together that say absolutely nothing. "Be professional?" " Be real?" What a joke.

How about hosting a double blind study that backs up any of the myriad of wild claims you have attributed to your products over the years. How about a scintilla of evidentiary proof by way of experiment or some kind of reproducible process that can verify anything you have to say about the products you sell? Professional???
Real???? Seriously? We're now going to get lectured by a cable manufacturer on the subject of reality, authenticity, integrity? Is this supposed to be a lame attempt at humor on your part?

By all means....throw out some more useless rants defending the indefensible. It only serves to draw more deserved attention to who you are and what you represent.

I was not taking sides. I have not the slightest clue what side JA is taking or what side this other person it taking.

I myself want MQA to die. Yesterday. For all the right reasons. I’ve always said that openly.

And, to add, you are indeed ranting. Nearly incoherently, with the added bonus of falsifiable emotionally driven strawman projections out the wazoo.

@Teo_Audio

Instead of focusing on me and the style or form of my attempt at communication, why not try following the "golden rule" of forums and enumerate the specific errors, omissions, or mischaracterizations contained in the thread that bother you so much. In other words, instead of attacking the messenger, attack the message if you have any ammunition to effectively launch such an attack. In the context of this forum, that is acceptable and expected. Labeling the thread a rant without offering any evidence to contradict the information presented is typical "subjectivist" propaganda BS.

Back to the subject of the thread. Archimago is not an individual affiliated with the audio or recording industry. If you or Mr. Atkinson have information to the contrary - BRING IT  and dispense with the rheems of personal attacks on other's credibility. If you continue with personal attacks, you and your company will get them in return.  And take my word for it, you live in a very large glass mansion.

" So cj, do you have any industry affiliations, where do you live, how do are you and do you have an EE or similar degree in acoustics or higher mathematics? " - vindian

I prefer to let the accuracy/verifiability of my posts speak for my credentials/qualifications. If it isn't obvious by now that I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, no amount of "credentials" are going to make the case for "who I am" any clearer for you. And once again, the topics presented in this forum are supposed to be about all things Audio. This site is not dedicated to boosting all of the fragile egos that drift throughout the world wide web on a daily basis. PLAY THE BALL - NOT THE MAN....PLAY THE BALL....NOT THE MAN....PLAY THE BALL....NOT THE MAN...

I know it's hard for people who spend most of their energy propping up belief and "confidence in experts" to break free from the habit of navel gazing and parroting the phrases of their idols and heroes. But for once, try focusing on the messages presented and if you have to, do some independent research to verify claims that are presented here on this forum. Satisfy your own curiosity with research that bolsters or denigrates the claims of others. Science is not as bad as what all the subjectivists have been telling you. It won't bite you. You may actually learn from the experience and be able to share that knowledge with others - something to be satisfied with and proud of. We all are searching for purpose in this world on one level or another. You don't have to confine that purpose to being a "believer" all the time. Being an explorer can be rewarding too.

Go bother some other audio forum. We have our own fish to fry. 🐟 🐟 🐟

Go bother some other audio forum. We have our own fish to fry. 🐟 🐟 🐟 - geoffkait

And some more comic relief from geoff - right on cue....as usual...

To educated professionals in the business, these trade magazines offer the illusion of integrity and honesty and nothing more. Mr. Atkinson’s blatant censorship policy with respect to an unknown who has no industry affiliations - a person like Archimago - is a shining example of just how corrupt the "audiophile trade press" really is. Sadly, this pay to play game has helped decimate what was at one time a much larger market segment. The focus shift to ever more costly "audio jewelry" in recent years has accelerated the demise - to the extent that there really no longer is a presence at the CES. This year was a disaster. And the trade press have no one else to blame. With their greed, they brought it on themselves.

I’ve been posting, ie paying attention in a myriad of ways..... since before the internet existed [’93-’94, approx], with about 30k pages of self written data out there. I’ve been watching this since before it began.

Portable digital audio, cell phones and ipods, is what killed the audio market. Changing demographics. $500-1000 cell phones... where the money would have went toward a modest audio system in a prior era of electronics and communication. Cellphones, portable audio, computers, and the internet, four things that were not there in the heyday of audio. People will 'get off' in whatever way they can, so it is no surprise that audio (full size gear) was so successful for that period of about 30-40 years, and no surprise that it declined as the 4 mentioned horsemen of the 'home audio/stereo' apocalypse came on line, over time.

Anything else (that has happened) is almost purely minor and incidental to the situation. Almost zero of it can be laid at the feet of an audio magazine, no matter how it is run. MQA is an attempt at explicit and overt control of a shrinking market.

The market went in the direction it could as it is about profit, not saving music for ..someone..(sacrificing themselves on an altar, for who, specifically?), it’s about keeping the doors open and the given audio enterprises. They simply went to where the customers were, in a shrinking and changing demographic. No hidden agenda there, just common sense as applied to business structuring in a largely insurmountable scenario.

MQA is the same, it’s just good business sense for members of the RIAA and so on. Limited views they may all be, in my thinking, but they are what they are. And they (as business ideals and as open acts) are not automatically sacrificial to the ideals I may personally hold, they simply are. I happen to think MQA is a very bad idea and that much music will be lost to it, for a decade or more, if it goes mainstream.

If business is your God you are correct .
If music is you are not .

I’m into this for the music and business has always played a far down the line second fiddle. Probably why I’m not as successful as I could be.

A wise businessman (business oriented) would have never participated in this thread at any price.

Sadly, the ones who are in it for the money will receive benefit from my participation. Such is the world.

Very true, in this part of it anyway .
Sorry , I shouldn't have been so flippant .

cj1965,

JA is a friend of mine and I don’t appreciate your coming over here disparaging him. Plus you’re a coward since he can’t defend himself. Crawl back under whatever rock you came from. Still think that’s comic relief? 

@teo_audio

Miracle of miracles - there are plenty of things we actually agree on, who knew? As to the demise or substantial "shrinkage" of the high end market segment, I don't think you can lay it all at the feet of portable phones and the MP3 generation or digital audio. And notice I didn't say the high end's downward spiral is completely attributable to a trade press that's resting on a house of cards. To wit:

" Sadly, this pay to play game HAS HELPED decimate what was at one time a much larger market segment. " cj1965

You cannot deny with a straight face that page after page after page, month after month of flakey commentary about $100,000 speakers, $75000 amps, "modestly priced" $3000 cables hasn't had a detrimental effect on trade show attendance and enthusiasm for new "affordable" hi fidelity equipment. And yes, the internet and online shopping has put a major hurt on brick and mortar establishments which in turn has struck at the heart of the high end retail audio sales business model. The direct marketing model used by some manufacturers has caused overall market shrinkage as the squeeze on retailers has ultimately hurt accessibility and thus market sustainability. Without a nearby auditioning location, having to fly to the nearest retailer to listen to the latest Dynaudio or Nelson Pass offering tends to put a damper on the whole exercise. So it is multi faceted in that poor accessibility coupled with trade show/magazine obsession with high priced audio jewelry has put a major damper on enthusiasm for the high end. If the only purveyors left standing are peddling overpriced jewelry, it's simply a matter of time before the house of cards collapses or chokes on its own hot air.

cj1965

You cannot deny with a straight face that page after page after page, month after month of flakey commentary about $100,000 speakers, $75000 amps, "modestly priced" $3000 cables hasn't had a detrimental effect on trade show attendance and enthusiasm for new "affordable" hi fidelity equipment.

Oh yes I can, absolutely. I don't know why or how content in a consumer magazine would hurt trade show attendance at all. If you have any evidence to support your assertion, please share it.

If the only purveyors left standing are peddling overpriced jewelry, it's simply a matter of time before the house of cards collapses or chokes on its own hot air.

That's very colorful language, but you're guilty here of circular reasoning, or what they used to call "begging the question." It's a logical fallacy.

cj - Do you see any irony in the title of this thread you started? 
Asking because when I look at details, it appears you've only been an A'gon "member" since Feb of this year; further, it's hard to miss the remarkably collegial and polite conversational tone you have set.  

@vindian

LOL! Please excuse my lapse in perception - it's an audio forum after all so I tend to expect the usual "who do you think you are, you're not John "freakin'" Atkinson...." routine.

@ghosthouse

I've known about Agon for years but didn't know it had a forum. The only reason I found out it had a forum was kind of by accident. I created an account to buy a Perreaux amp and was frustrated by a glitch in the bid/buy it now system that screwed up the sale. It was so exasperating that I logged on and looked for a website to vent my frustration - I bought a PMF 3350 under the "buy it now" for $500 but the stupid interface was saying I "won it" for $1. Obviously, the seller (very nice Agon user btw) wasn't going to sell it for that amount so the sale was stuck in limbo. In the process of "venting" I wound up posting on Agon's forum and didn't even realize it was their site until afterwards - how clueless is that? Fortunately for me, Agon staff and the seller were very helpful in getting the item relisted and I promptly bought it again - this time successfully. If that didn't happen, I never would have known about this forum. So if you're a believer in fate or happenstance - there's your example.
Additionally, this all happened right around the time a number of forums and trade magazines were talking about MQA. None of this was planned. While I can understand and appreciate why people in general are skeptical of new accounts on forums, sometimes multiple concurrent events conspire to produce situations that might at first glance appear to be suspicious. That's life. The song "Roll the Bones" comes to mind.....

" JA is a friend of mine and I don’t appreciate your coming over here disparaging him. Plus you’re a coward since he can’t defend himself. Crawl back under whatever rock you came from. Still think that’s comic relief? " - geoffkait

Yes. Even more humorous than your first post. Carry on....

Well said Mr Green. Very insightful post. 

@michaelgreenaudio- 

"performance, prices, and attitude"

Succinct and spot on.  Consumers used to look to trade magazines to assist in assessing performance virtues and offering guidance as to what represented value in the marketplace. Somewhere along the line, probably when test measurements were thrown out the window and things like $3000 cables, $5000 "power conditioners", and $50,000 amplifiers became "the norm", trade magazines like Stereophile began to lose credibility.And even with the blatant censorship demonstrated by the magazine's chief editor against a knowledgeable, independent voice of fact and reason surrounding the latest promotional product (MQA), for a good percentage of audiophiles, it's too painful to acknowledge they've been duped by a trade magazine that has been more interested in representing their financial interests than representing the interests of consumers. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. No one is entitled to their own facts. Stereophile and their paying advertisers haven't figured that out apparently. They seem to think they can make up the facts as they go along, censure dissenting voices, and no one will notice. Good luck with that.

cj1965
You cannot deny with a straight face that page after page after page, month after month of flakey commentary about $100,000 speakers, $75000 amps, "modestly priced" $3000 cables hasn’t had a detrimental effect on trade show attendance and enthusiasm for new "affordable" hi fidelity equipment.

>>>>Get real. There were $100,000 speakers more than 20 years ago. In fact there were $200,000 speakers 20 years ago. Are you Rip Van Winkle? The last time I looked there are currently $105,000 turntables and $15K cartridges and $215,000 amps and gulp, $24,000 interconnects and $400 Fuses. (Don’t have a brain aneurysm.) If you wish to pump up your case, such as it is, a little bit I suggest you use the higher numbers. Then you can act really outraged. 😡

" And BTW Stereophile is a consumer magazine, not a trade magazine. As you said, no one is entitled to their own facts.
" - viridian

I leave it up to you on the time line of when things started to go south. The thread is mainly about the "need" for everyone on an internet forum "who we should listen to" to fully disclose their identity, job history, and possible industry affiliations before being taken seriously or being allowed to post. Yes, we've veered off course a little - I'm certainly to blame as much as anyone else.
That being said, if Stereophile is in fact a "consumer  magazine" then one would think there would be plenty of "consumers" hanging around where they were hanging around at THE CONSUMER ELECTRONICS SHOW - one of the largest industry expositions for CONSUMER electronics in the world. Have you seen the videos of Mr. Atkinson et al. frumping along in empty demo halls at this year's CES? Where were all of the consumers? The only people on camera were "manufacturers". Gee, I wonder why that is.....
I have always operated on the philosophy that if "it walks, quacks, and floats like a duck - it's probably a duck".  Of course, YMMV....

Hell hath no fury like a disgruntled Mid Fi dropout. 🤡 

viridian, while not wanting to be argumentative, I must take issue with your above assertion: "Stereophile was completely subjective and had no testing program whatsoever when John Atkinson took over as editor." Sorry, that is absolutely not true. I discovered the mag in 1972, when founder J. Gordon Holt was it’s primary ( in some issues sole) contributor. JGH had been a reviewer at High Fidelity, performing both test-bench measurements and listening evaluations of hi-fi components. He continued both when he started Stereophile in 1962, I believe it was, and was still doing so when John Atkinson was hired by new owner Larry Archibald, to whom JGH had sold the mag. It is true to say, however, that Atkinson has expanded the battery of test-bench measurements performed on components under review.

Some of the Worst Offenders in Bad Audio Forum Behavior Are Not Regular Forum Members

I’ve noticed first hand a disturbing trend over at Stereophile for the past couple of years that whenever someone knowledgeable challenges the mantra put forth by some of their editors, the Chief Editor, Mr. Atkinson, demands that the poster put forth personal information about themselves and any possible affiliations they may have with regard to employment that Mr. Atkinson might consider some kind of conflict of interest.

Not true, I’ve locked horns with JA many times over some of his measurements/statements, not once has he done this to me.

He/Stereophile, and the measurements they provide are great for audiophiles that can understand and apply them, as they give insight to a product from a different view, other than just relying on a reviewers subjective opinions.
Sure they may have bias towards a product especially if it’s an advertiser, but that happens everywhere, also "maybe" here.

Cheers George

I belong to one forum (a wine forum) where real names and industry affiliations must be disclosed.

SNA, Stereo Net Australia is like that.

One of the best forums I’ve found, which never seems to have much continuing conflict going on (just short and sweet ones), that’s because of the likes of the brains trust Nelson Pass, John Curl ect ect quite a few of them hang out, it’s http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/index.php , if you start to preach too much voodoo there without any tech backup, your either ignored or very quickly chastised and hung out to dry. That’s why it works and works very well, mods never seem to have to step in too often.

Cheers George

DIY Audio sounds like a lovely, open minded place to hang out. 🌹 🌷 🌺 Or get hung out, as the case may be. 

@viridian 

@bdp24

On the subject of facts and "revisionist history".....
If memory serves correctly, Julian Hirsch was doing plenty of measurements at Audio magazine way back in the 1970s and 1980's prior to the appearance of everyone's favorite equipment testing hero MR. John Atkinson.
The issue that shouldn't get lost in the "who started doing measurements first war" is when Stereophile started doing reviews of equipment that possessed no lab testing results or measurements whatsoever. I firmly believe that if it were not for such fluff "reviews", the "power conditioner", exotic cable, and  "vinyl comeback" industries as we know them today - would not even exist. To my knowledge, none of the current crop of industry trade representatives masquerading as consumer audio product reviewers have had the audacity to create a new category of review for magic resistors, magic capacitors, isolator feet, wire suspenders, acoustic energy "grounding rods" and similar such "tweaks". With the current trajectory, however, it would not surprise me if a new "tweak corner" should appear in Stereophile pages.
What is truly humorous to watch though, are the videos of Michael Fremer swearing at cheap nostalgia turntables at CES. Not sure if Youtube took them down for blatant, gratuitous vulgarity but it was very funny watching this delusional character bemoan the fact that cheap nostalgia kitch turntables outnumbered his prized $50,000 offerings by at least 20:1 - as if the "vinyl comeback" was truly anything other than nostalgia. (Clearly the subject of other threads....)