Some of the Worst Offenders in Bad Audio Forum Behavior Are Not Regular Forum Members


I've noticed first hand a disturbing trend over at Stereophile for the past couple of years that whenever someone knowledgeable challenges the mantra put forth by some of their editors, the Chief Editor, Mr. Atkinson, demands that the poster put forth personal information about themselves and any possible affiliations they may have with regard to employment that Mr. Atkinson might consider some kind of conflict of interest. Most notably, this occurred recently with a user named Archimago - a popular member of Computer Audiophile who extensively examined MQA, it's claims, and the claims made for it by Stereophile staff. Mr. Atkinson repeatedly challenged the author for his identity and professional affiliations - without which, he would disregard the message conveyed by said forum member. Mr. Atkinson has gone even further in other instances of which I personally witnessed first hand. He insists on banning from Stereophile's forum anyone whom he believes has a duty to publicly identify themselves without specifying the criteria behind the demand - other than that an industry affiliation might exist. I would encourage readers here to visit Computer Audiophile and search for Archimago /MQA discussions to see what I'm on about first hand.

The point of raising this is not necessarily to drag Mr. Atkinson through the mud but to highlight a key aspect of hypocrisy with respect to Mr. Atkinson's "policy" and how that relates to ALL online forums. Time and again, we're reminded in various forums when ideas are presented and challenged in a heated atmosphere - "FOCUS ON THE SUBJECT MATTER - NOT THE CREDENTIALS OR PERCEIVED FAILINGS OF THE INDIVIDUAL MAKING HIS OR HER POINT". This in my view has always been good advice. When we "play the ball" and not  "the man", it is much easier to maintain a civil exchange of ideas/experiences.  So where does Mr. Atkinson's insistence on identifying qualifications of the person fit in to this concept? It seems that every time he or a staff member is personally challenged for facts, he resorts to this "policy" as a form of censorship.  So basically what I"m saying here is that there's plenty of evidence that in some circles, the very people who should be encouraging us all to focus on the merits of the message - letting it stand or fall on its own without involving the supposed "credentials" of the messenger, - these people are in fact the worst offenders among us. Instead of setting a good example and sticking to it, they are doing the opposite while on occasion imploring the rest of us "regular members" to "do as I say - not as I do". I no longer participate in Stereophile forums because of this obvious cute form of censorship that has been employed. I hope that kind of thing never happens here on Audiogon. My guess, however, is that since Agon moderators aren't in the business of promoting/reviewing certain products that come along, that issue is not likely to present itself.
In any case, how do you feel about the privacy rights of other forum members? Should everyone be required to put forth their real name and potential industry affiliation or should that only apply to people who appear to be trying to sell something other than knowledge in the course of posting?
cj1965

Showing 5 responses by teo_audio

the above was an obviously biased and non factual rant.

I don’t like to ’take sides’ in these internet arguments (but it does not mean that I don’t!), as the best that can be done for a manufacturer..when doing so..is to lose market share, lose potential customers, or lose prior customers.

People bend/shift subconsciously in the face of pain/dislike more than they consciously bend in the face of reason/like. That they emote their way to a narrow path more than they think their way to clear skies. In clever hands, this unrealized (by most) aspect of humanity is a doorway for manipulation. Expect it to be used, and used often. As it is. It is a standard tool in the propaganda toolkit.

In the final analysis, forum anonymity is a backward premise that has to go. Bad actors require loopholes in order to be bad actors, and they will quite logically gravitate to places that allow for the bad acting to take place and be of service to them.

Wordsmiths aren’t automatically innocent nor clear of conscience. They are merely good wordsmiths. And since everyone does not know everything about all subjects, nor is intelligence in perception and scope of view equal in all people... then...the good, intelligent, quick witted ’wordsmith’ can bend the word in order to service an agenda, be the agenda correct and humane --- or not.

This sort of wordsmithing has been the stock and trade of the Machiavellian psychopath for as long as humans have gathered and had societies. Socially, culturally, politically, etc...wordsmithing is at the heart of manipulating, shifting and enthralling groups of people in the given varied directions. the number of wars that have been launched and fought, in the wake of directed wordsmiths are, realistically....nearly uncountable. The aspects of human life that have been manipulated by the same sort of wordsmithing are also..uncountable.

Psychopathology is everywhere and is particularly rampant-and self feeding accelerating and spreading as the methodology of commonality among forums and contentious subjects ---forums where the authors and participants are allowed anonymity.

Essentially, John is right in calling the person out.

Be professional, be real when speaking on subjects that have the fortunes of others attached to it.... be as a known entity, >> or.... shut the heck up<<<, as your words come from behind a curtain, a curtain where any motivation and agenda may be going on. Your value to the conversation must be weighted in it’s full context otherwise the missive is meaningless and/or weighted by hidden motivations and drives. Forums deserve no exemption that public speaking in groups is not entitled to. In public (in person) groups, you receive exactly zero anonymity. And bad behaviour almost never takes place there. No space for it to exist. 

Importantly...Psychopaths have done incredibly well with their faces and names known. Imagine what happens when you give them a curtain to hide behind. Imagine what happens when they program AI bots. (cutting edge technology is generally -at least- a generation beyond your given public perceptions and knowing..that's just the way things are)

Thus, forums are where the psychopathic tendencies will show themselves, as they are one of the only public avenues where it can comfortably thrive..so the forums will be overloaded with such.

A clue for you, is that when you read on forums, you speak the words in your own head, and this involves the ego and the internal voice. Which is a direct doorway to the unconscious in you, the subconscious and drives/motivation system. It’s a form of auto-hypnosis.

There’s a lot more to it, but suffice it to say, when manipulating groups, forums..now that they exist..forums have become excellent tools to systems of oligarchy with respect to manipulating masses. They are difficult to control, these forums and manipulations of them... but the cheddar/opportunity of total manipulation is there in spaces, in taste, feel, and reality.... so expect it (ie, AI bot posting armies from black entities and bad actor government branches, etc) to not improve, but to worsen. Raise your game or lose it all.



I was not taking sides. I have not the slightest clue what side JA is taking or what side this other person it taking.

I myself want MQA to die. Yesterday. For all the right reasons. I’ve always said that openly.

And, to add, you are indeed ranting. Nearly incoherently, with the added bonus of falsifiable emotionally driven strawman projections out the wazoo.
To educated professionals in the business, these trade magazines offer the illusion of integrity and honesty and nothing more. Mr. Atkinson’s blatant censorship policy with respect to an unknown who has no industry affiliations - a person like Archimago - is a shining example of just how corrupt the "audiophile trade press" really is. Sadly, this pay to play game has helped decimate what was at one time a much larger market segment. The focus shift to ever more costly "audio jewelry" in recent years has accelerated the demise - to the extent that there really no longer is a presence at the CES. This year was a disaster. And the trade press have no one else to blame. With their greed, they brought it on themselves.

I’ve been posting, ie paying attention in a myriad of ways..... since before the internet existed [’93-’94, approx], with about 30k pages of self written data out there. I’ve been watching this since before it began.

Portable digital audio, cell phones and ipods, is what killed the audio market. Changing demographics. $500-1000 cell phones... where the money would have went toward a modest audio system in a prior era of electronics and communication. Cellphones, portable audio, computers, and the internet, four things that were not there in the heyday of audio. People will 'get off' in whatever way they can, so it is no surprise that audio (full size gear) was so successful for that period of about 30-40 years, and no surprise that it declined as the 4 mentioned horsemen of the 'home audio/stereo' apocalypse came on line, over time.

Anything else (that has happened) is almost purely minor and incidental to the situation. Almost zero of it can be laid at the feet of an audio magazine, no matter how it is run. MQA is an attempt at explicit and overt control of a shrinking market.

The market went in the direction it could as it is about profit, not saving music for ..someone..(sacrificing themselves on an altar, for who, specifically?), it’s about keeping the doors open and the given audio enterprises. They simply went to where the customers were, in a shrinking and changing demographic. No hidden agenda there, just common sense as applied to business structuring in a largely insurmountable scenario.

MQA is the same, it’s just good business sense for members of the RIAA and so on. Limited views they may all be, in my thinking, but they are what they are. And they (as business ideals and as open acts) are not automatically sacrificial to the ideals I may personally hold, they simply are. I happen to think MQA is a very bad idea and that much music will be lost to it, for a decade or more, if it goes mainstream.
I’m into this for the music and business has always played a far down the line second fiddle. Probably why I’m not as successful as I could be.

A wise businessman (business oriented) would have never participated in this thread at any price.

Sadly, the ones who are in it for the money will receive benefit from my participation. Such is the world.
@geoffkait
DIY Audio sounds like a lovely, open minded place to hang out. 🌹 🌷 🌺 Or get hung out, as the case may be.
It’s the most closed minded place I’ve ever had the displeasure of being a member of. I like DIYAudio and there are some terrific people there - but don’t ever go there to and try to look at something new.

One those things that happens when people have just enough knowledge and lore to not see the walls of the box their thinking is in. Where they somehow imagine that their limits are the same as everyone else’s and encompasses  all things..and then they go full rabid textbook/biblical/ballistic --toward anything that is even remotely ’not yet fully understood.’

There are people there that do look at all the odd stuff that is not yet understood and do apply it to the gear they build, but they literally have to pussyfoot around the place and never mention it directly. If they do mention it directly, the literal minded cement heads evoke the textbook answers and start attacking mercilessly.

Since the cement heads outnumber the inquisitive and forward thinking, and that the cement heads bite and tear with no relenting or thoughts..the forum moderators have to side with the cement heads and the forward thinkers are the ones who are censured. So dense they routinely kill the dreamer without a shred of thought that they kill the very thing that makes humanity go forward, onward and upward.

Linear. Dense. Negative. Violent. Projecting. Not a clue.


Sound familiar?

For good reason, my tag line at DIYAudio, used to be:

"Only Dead Fish Swim With The Stream" -Malcolm Muggeridge