Solo streamer

@rvpiano This is an accurate assumption. The A200’s streamer is more on par with the N150, and the A15 utilizes more of what’s in the N200. I would not recommend the A200 in lieu of your DAC and N200. While there is synergy in that unit, it will not solve what you want to accomplish. 

I should have chosen better words in my first post in this thread. I spoke of your potential need to seek warmth and harmonics as I mentioned the DAC3 is very linear. I should have also mentioned that you may want to seek an extra level of refinement. There are a few areas where you may be able to find this.

First is in a more refined sounding DAC. I have long been recommending the well-regarded T+A DAC 200 to pair with the N200. It is still my DAC of choice in the $15K and under market. The DAC 200 has six different filters for  upsampling and non-oversampling that help to further shape your sound. The magnificent imaging, soundstaging enlargement, musicality, and sheer resolution of the DAC is a number of levels above your DAC3. Other DACs that may be of note are from Meitner/EMM, MSB, Aqua, Bricasti, or the DACs in Luxman’s transports. Lampizator also sounds very good, but in my experience you have to go up the chain and spend more to get the resolution that some of these other units can deliver.

Your choice of USB cable matters a lot. The 5V DC lead that runs parallel to the signal can add to the noise factor, which makes USB sound more brittle and fatiguing. It may sound financially disproportionate, but the FTA Sinope is an excellent, full-bodied, grain free and wonderfully musical USB cable. Their older Calisto is also very good and can be had for less, but it is not quite as resolving as the Sinope. Still a very good choice for its price used or new. I used FTA USB until I purchased my $6K USB cable (no need to get into those details).

There are other areas, like power cables, interconnects, Ethernet cables/switches, which can all help as well, but I would focus on the two above as they will get you furthest, and then tweak with the rest. 

I was surprised to see that the A200 does not appear to have a digital out so it can be used with an outboard DAC as does their soon to be released lower line A1000.

Live and learn, I incorrectly assumed most streamers with built in DACs had the capability to use an outboard DAC.

Yes, it makes sense that the N200 would sound better than the A200.

Did someone mention the Lumin U1X or the other pure streamers?

They are excellent and used deals abound.

Also look sharp.  Sleek curved block of aluminium.

Also a very intuitive interface.

@rvpiano I would discuss your situation and thoughts with @blisshifi who you will note posted earlier in this thread.  His experience and knowledge base is extensive.  And he seems to be more than willing to share his thoughts whether or not you are purchasing through him.      

I would keep the purpose built streamer and add an outboard dac. Even if it’s at a later time. There’s no substitute for a good external dac unless your goal is a one box solution. 

@aldnorab The N200 should be a better streamer than the streamer in the A200. These units are basically the same price and the A200 has a DAC also. They had to cut some corners. 

@rvpiano I considered an A200 instead of N200. Then I read this thread: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/aurender-a200-vs-n200. Dealer says A200 is like a N150 streamer sonically. Aurender also said N200 sounds better. 

Thanks,

aldnorab 

@lalitk

Hmm…. Very interesting idea. I have to think about that.
I still have about a month to decide.

“Although I believe my Benchmark DAC is doing a great job, just out of curiosity, what other DACs would you recommend?”

@rvpiano 

Just a thought, if your N200 is still in return period, consider swapping with A200 (with built-in DAC) and go straight into CJ :-) 

Preamp is a must in my book. I’ve not gotten the best possible results unless a preamp is in a system. I’m not saying you don’t need one. We were just talking DACs and features. 

That Bricasti is a fine sou ding unit and the fact it can drive an Amp is appealing but I like to run all of my sources at a fixed output into a preamp .  I guess if you are all digital it makes sense ....

I'll always use an active pre

@oddiofyl 

The heart of my system is a vintage Conrad Johnson preamp refitted with Teflon caps by CJ.  It really makes my system work.

@oddiofyl I compared the preamp in the M3 to Pass Labs XP-12 and XP-22. The M3 direct to amp is very transparent but not harsh. The only area where it lacks slightly is the soundstage depth and layering. This is where a dedicated preamp comes in. 

I’d always rather have a separate preamp.  I know DAC / Preamps are hugely popular but I wonder how many are just climbing the DAC ladder and have never had a really good preamp that meshes well with all their other gear.  
 

My last two preamps were a CJ and Zesto.  System sounded thin and honestly not that great with just a DAC driving my amps.    I tried it with several DACs and put the preamp right back on the chain. 

Thank you.

Bricasti also has a preamp by the way and it’s really good. However, it’s done right and it sounds it. 
just to compare…

DAC 3 HGC:

Bricasti M3:

@audphile1

Sorry if you thought I was demeaning your choices.

I wasnt

No not calling it poop cause it isn’t. But adding headphone capabilities and preamp section to pure DAC without any impact on the rest of the circuitry is what i was referring to…

Well, I wouldn’t call the Benchmark poop.

Thanks for the list!

That’s right…according to benchmark…but we all know what happens when an attempt is made to stuff 10lbs of poop in a 5lb bag…

@audphile1

FYI, the Benchmark DAC3HGC is identical to the DAC3 aside from some extra features.

I auditioned the Qutest years ago.  Liked my Schitt Gungnir better.

I’ve not compared too many DACs…but here’s the list in order of ranking:

Bricasti M3

PS Audio DirectSream Digital MkI

Chord Hugo TT2

Benchmark DAC 3 HGC

Bryston BDA-3.14

Bryston BDA-3

Chord Qutest

Mytek Brooklyn 2

The Bricasti M3 is simply a fantastic DAC. I’m making a full circle back to it now.
Others will chime in with their recommendations but if you have any questions on my experience with any of the DACs from the list above, please feel free to message me.

Although I believe my Benchmark DAC is doing a great job, just out of curiosity, what other DACs would you recommend?

I have that Bruckner 9 SACD and there are no issues with it in my systems.  Not my favorite performance but it sounds great 

Any Innuos...I have the Pulsar 

Yeah don’t worry about it for now. Enjoy the music! 

@audphile1

Not a fan of Bruckner. Hard for me to listen to.

I accept what you’re saying though.  I think it may be a DAC thing.  Although, other than Pittsburgh/Honeck, just about  everything else doesn’t exhibit this problem.

@aldnorab i have it on a solidsteel amp stand

check my system page

Anyone using any kind of isolation feet/platform with the Aurender? 

Thanks,

aldnorab

@rvpiano I’m listening to the 9th again, streaming from Qobuz. 
It sounds fine, still slightly overdone with loudness but it’s not offensive by any means. Running the following:

Aurender N200 via Audience StudioOne USB to Bricasti M3  that feeds Boulder 866 integrated via Nordost Tyr 2 XLR. Bricasti does an amazing job with this recording. 
 

@mahler123 there is such thing as lossless compression. Absolutely everything is compressed on the Internet to save bandwidth and improve speed. Without any losses. Think ZIP archive.

@lalitk am guessing the pun was intended. Good one.

@wsrrsw 

You could be right about the DAC, but I’m enjoying the current interaction otherwise so much, it’s not worth a change of units.  Also, it’s a fairly rare occurrence.

@rvpiano 

The only downside to Aurender is that the dynamic range on some tracks is too good; it ranges from almost inaudible to ear splitting in the space of a few minutes. Happily, on most tracks this doesn’t happen.

Well, it can’t be perfect, can it?

 

That sounds very much like a DAC thing and not the Aurneder. 

The glass behind your speakers makes for a hard hard bounce. If you have a life partner, then good luck with that one! (It took me finally getting up an out building to get it set up for sound the way I wanted. In the house forgetaboutit)

As others have said USB cabling (and Power cord in) will help too.

Late to this party (as I was listing to tunes). Excellent example or what Agone can be. Oh happy day.

@dxbwineguy 

My recommendation would be to not make further changes without allowing a new component to completely settle in your system. This will allow you to make sound decisions and get you off upgrade merry go round. 

@lalitk the upgrade itch strikes everyday. I try to control it. Fortunately, the audition today helped in that. Right now I have 2 speakers on order- the Qualio IO and The Omega Junior 8. Hopefully once I have them, especially with the former I can salve the urge at least for a few months.

I got the Orchid only earlier this week- that was also part of the itch. As per the manufacturer the tube takes more than a month to burn-in. So maybe that will also help.

regards,

Manu

If the N150 sounds anything like the N200, I would go for it.

btw, Mercury Living Presence tracks sound unbelievable on the Aurender.
You can hear the sampler on Qobuz.  
Play  it loud.

@dxbwineguy 

If you couldn’t hear any differences between Eversolo DMP A6 ME and Aurender N150, then I wouldn’t bother with an upgrade. Bottom line, if you’re happy with your existing system, then sit back and enjoy. 

If you have an upgrade itch, then bring in N-150 in your home and listen for a week before thinking about next upgrade. The whole upgrade game with streamer vs DAC is like catch 22 thing. They both need to be complimentary of each other and not be bottleneck. Looking at your system, N150 ➡️ MHDT would be my pick for N150 audition in your system. 

thank you @rvpiano @audphile1 & @lalitk for the quick response.

Taking advantage of the family traveling and being alone, went over to a HiFi shop here in Dubai and did an impromptu audtion.

Preamp: Parasound JC2, Power Amp: Parasound JC5, DAC: Ferrum Wandla, Speakers: Audio Note AN J

Variables: Eversolo DMP A6 ME and Aurender N150- both used as streamers only.

Took a friend along too. Including the store rep none of the three of us could discern a noticeable difference. It could be down to the perfectly treated room and the phenomenal amps and speakers- is my guess.

My own set-up for reference:

3 amps that I use interchangeably: Audio Note P2SE, Gato Audio 150 AE, Akitika (yes you read that right) GT102 Z4; streamer: Eversolo DMP A6 (standard), DACs: Topping D70 Pro Octo and MHDT Orchid, Speakers: Klipsch RP 8000F II.

Basis what I have read in other threads on AG, inclyding by @lalitk  and @audphile1 I am guessing your recommendation would be to upgrade the DAC and then possibly look at the steamer?

regards,

Manu

My guess, not my guy—I am unable to edit this

My guy is Qobuz is using some compression on a SACD known for its exceptional dynamic range, and that your streamer is revealing enough to show how bad that is.  It would be interesting if you could burn the CD layer to a usb flash drive (assuming the streamer plays flash drives) and then compare it to the Qobuz stream 

@dxbwineguy 

If your DAC accepts USB, I would pick N150 over N10. N150 is a newer generation of Aurender models and voiced similarly as N200 and N20. The older gen models are softer (rounded in transients), laid back and not as dynamic as newer generation models. You can buy N200 around $3500-$4K if you’re patient and within your budget. Otherwise N150 is a solid entry into Aurender world! 

@mahler123 

I listened on Qobuz.

I have some of the Honeck’s on SACD,  and you’re right, not as annoyingly loud.
I wouldn’t describe the sound as “shrieking” but rather excessively loud.  Some might even like it.

@dxbwineguy haven’t heard N150

If you don’t use Roon, look for a used N10, it should be around $4k. N10 is a predecessor of N20 and should be excellent. 

I listen to the Honeck/Pittsburgh  recordings on SACD.  I haven’t noticed any shrieking or any issue.  How does the OP access these recordings?  Via a service such as Qobuz? Or has he burned copies to a server and then played back from there?

@dxbwineguy

i was in the same position you are in. I decided to buy the N200 on time, interest free with 12 monthly payments. Doesn’t hurt as much.  
I’m so happy I did.  It’s totally worth it.