Solid state amp to go with tube preamp; used ok; budget: $3k max
I may have posed a similar question like this a while back, but I'm curious to get any updated thinking from folks, older or newer.
Situation: I have a Quicksilver Line Stage preamp and 60w monoblocks. I'm happy with them. I'd like to have a solid state amp to swap in for the monoblocks from time to time (weather, variety).
Typical desiderata in the amp are, as you'd expect, great grip on bass and pacing, smooth highs, good presence in mids, as wide and deep a soundstage as possible.
I tried Atoll 120wpc integrated (bypassing the preamp), Van Alstine SET 400, and my old Adcom 535L. None did the above to my satisfaction --problem mainly with mid, treble and with soundstage depth.
I've heard that stepping up the quality could bring something to the table, and to look out for Hegel, Ayre, Pass. Open to any topology. My speakers are 87 db, 8 ohm, and are driven just fine by 60w tube or solid state.
Specific recommendations for brands and models are welcome. I'm willing to buy, try, and re-sell if there's a good chance I'll want to keep it.
I'm going to be watching for things on used sites. Again, for this I'm setting an upper limit of $3k but am hopeful I could do fine with much less.
Thanks, all -- Hafler, Stratos, Coda. Good to add to the list, investigate, too.
Anyone compare the Stratos with Pass, Ayre, or other smooth customers? Hard to imagine a $1500 amp kicking butt at 1/3 the MSRP, but who knows? These smaller makers can surprise you.
I will admit that with the new KT 150s in my QS monos, there’s no problem with the low end, at all. But I’d just like something which presents a bit differently and which adds a certain rhythmic "snap" which I heard with Van Alstine’s 125watt SET 400 but with a better midrange and high. Those neg’s on the SET400 were deal killers, and I ate the shipping to get my money back. (No disrespect to AVA lovers, this was just my experience.)
relative to the best sounding nelson pass gear, usually his lower powered units, class a/b offerings from belles, odyssey, ava does not favorably compare -- if the objective is a full, natural, tonally/timbrally pure presentation (of course the classic tradeoff of spl capability vs sonic purity)
Hegal H190 should be on your short list. That is about as high as you can go on 3,000 but i would not settle for anything less in the Hegel line and there is no need to do so. I’m shooting for the H20 power amp myself
You expected not to pay for shipping on a return? What's that all about?
Not what I meant to say. I meant to say, "It cost a fair amount to ship the amount back because of the weight of the amp, the lack of packaging in the way it was initially packaged, and the insurance I paid. Despite all that, it was worth it to me to pay the shipping -- which of course I knew in advance I had to pay and agreed to pay -- because I just didn't want to keep the amp."
Hope that longer version of "ate" brings you a fuller understanding of what I said too quickly.
@tvad and @jjss49 -- From all I've heard, Class A/B is not going to cut it; it will have to be Class A or perhaps an innovative Class D (curious).
The notion that "anything below the 190 in the Hegel line won't be good enough" (paraphrasing) is surprising to me. I suppose there is a range of experience here.
The other trade-off you're looking at here is new vs. used, and I think it should factor more into the discussion. Otherwise you're not comparing apples with apples. Do you want the peace of mind that comes with a new unit (and, likely, the ability to return it if you don't like it), or do you want to squeeze every last dollar of performance out of your budget while at the same time being willing to deal with a possible malfunction, which probably won't happen for years but which just could happen tomorrow?
Some brands are like Volvos -- tanks which run forever. If I can get the audio equivalent of a Volvo at 50% off, then that risk is acceptable. I don't need and and don't want to spend $7k on a brand new Pass Labs amp, but I cannot see me losing that much sleep over paying roughly half that for a well cared for used Pass Lab.
Other car and amp brands can be subbed in above and that will make the same argument.
Hegal H190 should be on your short list. That is about as high as you can go on 3,000 but i would not settle for anything less in the Hegel line and there is no need to do so. I’m shooting for the H20 power amp myself
overly simplistic view imo for the op’s needs
hegel’s line has a very consistent sonic signature up and down the line, leaving aside the onboard dacs which have seen the updates over the last few years ... all units with the sound engine 2 amp circuit from rost to h90 to current line up up to the h190 sound remarkably similar when driving speakers suitable for the power levels of the amp sections - the notable exception is h390/590 duo which have a slightly richer/warmer sound signature due to a change in the preamp circuitry
in the last 3 years, i have had the h90, 160, 190, 390, 590, rost and h20 in my own system(s) - currently still have the last 2, so my statement above is from direct experience
+1 on the PS Audio M 700s. YOu can do a try and buy and they take trade ins. I ran and S300 for several years and like it very much . Sold it to a person on here who was very happy to get it. I moved to a Quad Atera Stereo and that amp can be had for ~$3k
Hegel good suggestion as well. I demo the Rost (very impressive for a small integrated) and would like to own one of there power amps some day.
@jjss49 Thanks. I don’t listen that loud, so if my speakers are not bears to drive and the sonic signature is effectively the same, I prefer not to spend more, needlessly. The 190 appears to be overkill.
Incidentally, I saw a Hegel 160 out there, used. Possibly better than the H90?
@jbuhl Perhaps you missed my comment to donniewn below, "Steering away from monoblocks."
Wyred4Sound might work SX-1000R might be an option, gets good reviews. Never owned there amps but have had some of there other products with satisfaction. The PS Audio S300 is also a solid piece (single amp, Ice power implementation) and is also part of the try and buy program. Coming in at $1.7k The Rogue Hydra might be an interesting option. Hybrid Class D/ Tube topology. my previous setup was a Rogue Tube pre and a PS Audio S300 amp. I think a Tube pre and class D setup is great for lower listening levels if all the specs match up for your speakers at it comes in right at $3K.Rogue: https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/rogue-audio-hydra-amplifier Just throwing out some stuff and companies I have had experience with.
@jbuhl No worries! Clearly you like their stuff. I am open to Wyred4Sound, PS Audio S300, Rogue -- but I want to ensure I hit a level *above* Atoll, Van Alstine, etc. I know that sounds vague, and that price isn't everything, so I'm relying on folks who've heard these things and know what I mean by a level above. I have few doubts that Pass or Ayre or Hegel could do these things.
Sonic Frontiers Line 2. I've had mine for over 20 years and have no inclination to change. There's one at audiomart well within your budget. Sonic Frontiers is no longer in business but partsconnexion.com does repairs and upgrades at a very reasonable price. Lots of flexibility with tubes and the best remote you'll find. I believe the designer of this preamp owns/runs partsconnexion. Built like a tank. Kevin Deal of upscaleaudio was a huge fan of Sonic Frontiers back in the day.
are you insistent on this particular component combination? Why not sink that budgeted money into a good integrated amplifier (very attainable), where all the guesswork is done for you with perfectly matched synergy in one box?
+1 on Benchmark AHB2. They offer a 30-day free trial. For clarity and transparency, they set the bar. I ran a PS Audio S300 for quite a while, but the AHB2 is easily better.
If, however, you prefer a little coloration and warmth, it would not be a good match. I've never tried a tube pre with the AHB2, but that combo might provide the best of both worlds.
@Hilde45 - Hi, so I use a Bel Canto S300 with my Manley Shrimp tube linestage.... it's just fabulous in every way. Tightens up my kit in the digital space and is pure magic in analog applications. I have two and would sell one for $800. It is, in my humble opinion, the best $800 you'll spend and as for $3K budget, that might be overspending. If you want to chat more reach out. The piece is in mint condition. - BGR
Offer $800. If you can get it at that price it is a steal. The same amp with the "cool meters" is going for $3000 across the web. Save $2200 and enjoy the hell out of it.
These are 200WPC (180 actually). I bought 2 and have them set up as monoblocks. These are from when SONY had their "STUFF" together. I am using the Sony TA-E77ESD Preamp.
I have Pass XA 60.8's with Allnic L-7000 pre amp. Very smooth and detailed. I am driving Magnepan 3.7i's with REL subs. I find the bass quality varies a lot with cables and other gear but it is very clean and detailed also.
I’d 2nd the motion for Schiit Aegirs in monoblock mode. Would only work with the Quicksilver pre if it has balanced out, which it probably doesn’t.
But you could get the 2 Aegirs plus their Freya + pre ( with tubes) for under the 3k you’re talking about. They give you a trial period as well. No risk.
Another for CJ. Benchmark -- are $3k new, whereas Pass, Ayre, more like $5-6k new. Bel Canto S300 about $2k new. So, folks feel they're equally good, I take it.
Not interested in integrated at the moment because I have a preamp I like.
Never heard of Robertson but will look.
Sony -- my Walkman maker! I take that back. Too snarky. Perhaps a find. Will look.
Very much heading toward Pass, I think, at a lower model. Still in process.
When I suggested the c-js, I did so because I think they are really quite good and in part because they fit in well with systems that are otherwise built around tubes. If you want an amp that demonstrates distinct ss prowess, there might be some other candidates that might be somewhat better in that regard.
A word of caution, some otherwise outstanding recommendations are designed and built to be their best with balanced inputs, something your Quicksilver pre doesn’t have. It might be prudent to seek out gear that will work optimally with the rest of your system, rather than choosing gear that spent resources on tech you won’t use.
Pass or Ayre, pick one and you’ll be happy and satisfied. FWIW, Ayre has a service department second to none. It’s a no-brainer with either of these two.
@unsound thank you for the very good advice and I do understand about looking to find a match and not just follow advice blindly. in part, there is a bit of experience I need which might only be gained by trying things. I understand that this is an iterative process but it can be embarked upon in a more or less intelligent way and the advice here is helping.
I recommend Plinius solid state 200 watt amps, e.g., SA-100, mk3, SA-102 or SA-103. These amps can play both class A and Class A/B. Class A the amp plays hotter, which is not unusual for class A. Class A sound is simply a class above A/B. 30 reviews of the mk3 at audivoreview.com and the average score: 4.9 out of 5.0. I have matched it with Pass Labs and McIntosh solid state preamps and got an excellent presentation and this amp also matched well with the Hovland tube preamp HP-100. Recent amps of this vintage can be picked up on ebay for approximately $2K and around that price point at Audiogon and other outlets.
I just finished a month listening to the LSA Voyager 350 GaN Amp and can say even stock it is a great amp. Presence in particular is excellent as is the sound stage. Brand new for $3,000 and there was some trade in option as well.
Greetings Hilde, I bet the Rockies are beautiful right now. I’ve followed you since your previous thread and your trial of the VanAlstine. So here’s my random thoughts. First having single ended output is definitely a consideration. If you purchase a used Bryston 3 B and go to the latest version your budget will allow. They are single - balanced switchable. I’m very curious about the Benchmark. However it is balanced only. But I recommend that you contact RVpiano and get his thoughts. He has a restored CJ pre and went to the Benchmark and used the Cardas adapters. He spins higher quality vinyl and last we talked a Schiit Gumby DAC. He was contemplating the Benchmark pre, I believe it’s a Dac combo. I’ve had conversation with him and even loaned him some nos Telefunken, Seimens and RCA tubes to try in his CJ. He’s a real gentleman and I’ve appreciated his input as we run similar tubes, cables and single ended tube pre’s. Unfortunately I’m in the same position as you and the $5K range amps are not in my immediate future. I love Schiit gear but check and see if there is a restocking fee. The Benchmark can be had risk free and you rarely see them for sale used and they are priced near new. That must mean something. Happy Hunting and enjoy that snow you’ll be getting next week. Best of health, Mike B.
Hello hilde45, Based on the enthusiastic comments of boomerbillone on a classD thread comparing to purfi, (and bought a 2nd) I purchased the Starke Sound AD4.3.2 a few months ago and I'm glad I did.
This amplifier just makes "music" and has made me stop looking, I'm completely satisfied. It constantly draws me into the music even when I'm busy doing other things most noticed with drums, cymbals, triangles, vocal inflections (too many to list). There's no emphasis of any of the frequencies and the upper frequencies are so pristine and real-sounding it's often said you will know it when you hear it. My memory compares it to a couple of 150 watt Class A monoblocks I owned many moons ago built by a local diy member of our local PNW Audio Society. I realized after a year (purely analog) I could not leave them constantly on (my preference with gear) due to the unjustifiable power bills so they started sitting unused except for extended critical listening. I started looking for an acceptable alternative, tried many but nothing really compared until this amp. Although I never tried those Class A beasts with my current demanding load (2 ohm) to know if they could drive them, I suspect not, I've had to constantly replace a regulator on one of them after spirited listening, this amp has been on 24/7 for the last few months fed by a synergistic research Tesla powercell 10 SE (with the 32 amp neutrik powercon connector) and WW silver Electra 7 with upgraded connectors driving a pair of 1.6 QRs and biwired Legacy Signature 3s in parallel! configured in bridged mode! This seems to be close to a demanding load as I've ever put an amp through, the only other amps I've put through this are my Soundstream DA1 (reportedly a Krell design) and Crown xti 2002. While both handled the load well, this amp is more engaging by a mile with no hardness or grain, to my ears.
I include some details of my chain so you can do some extrapolating as to which might be contributing what - it's currently all digital playing mostly Qobuz and infrequently Tidal via reclocked EtherRegen to DCS Network Bridge and Acoustic Revive active spdif coax for music, Node2 for TV and sometimes music via toslink both into a Mojo Mystique V3 to an iFi iTube2 in zero gain mode. This amp simply reveals the character of those sources impeccably while delivering engaging and musically satisfying experiences with both.
I hope you research and consider auditioning this amp for yourself, please disregard the real world pricing and lack of bling, It just may be what you're looking for. I'm sure you'll know it once you hear it. I also heard some, but minimal, break-in from new. It could be due to the Class D efficiency and use of smaller electrolytics but that's just a guess as to why.
@stray_cat Your description is so thorough and careful, I bet it would make a good post as a review on its own, here. Just about everything is in this comment of yours -- post it as a thread! I appreciate your suggestion and I will read about it some more.
Bit of an update. I decided to get the Pass XA-25 via Reno HiFi. Very happy with the price, condition, warranty, and service.
So far, I'm finding it a remarkable sounding amp. Never harsh, never lacking power, voices very intimate and present, soundstage complex and articulate. Lots of *depth* to the soundstage, too -- something the Van Alstine SET 120 piece lacked completely (a trial I posted about a while back). I know they're in different leagues, but it was something else to hear that difference.
Very happy with this amp. Don't feel I need more power. Drives my 87 db Salks just fine.
I regret not being able to try the other great amps mentioned here. Someday, who knows…
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