bjesien,
In all likelihood, you will not be disappointed. I upgraded from QB-9 DSD to the TWENTY and found it transformative.
In all likelihood, you will not be disappointed. I upgraded from QB-9 DSD to the TWENTY and found it transformative.
Sold My Ayre QB-9 DSD - Help Me Choose A New DAC!
I’m looking for help in choosing a new DAC.
Here’s my DAC history…
About seven years ago I purchased an Ayre QB9. It was the original non-upgraded 24/96 version and I absolutely loved it. A few years later I had it upgraded by Ayre to the QB-9 DSD.
While I loved the original QB-9, I never completely loved the upgraded DSD version. The QB9 DSD was smoother and more detailed, but lost some of the musical immediacy and excitement of the original - at least for me.
To be fair, I never had the opportunity to compare the original QB-9 to the QB-9 DSD. In hindsight, I still really enjoyed listening to the QB-9 DSD, but had hoped for even more magic from the upgrade.
Right about then I started traveling extensively for work. Since I would not be home much, I sold the QB-9 DSD and bought a Audioquest Dragonfly Red - for the road.
Fast forward three years. I am no longer traveling for work as much and have the time and opportunity to set up a new home DAC. I’ll start with the Dragonfly Red, but I want something better.
My stereo system is comprised of a highly-modified Eico HF81 tube amp (EL84 for 14-watts) and a pair of highly modified Signet SL260 speakers. I also have a pair of Falcon LS3/5a speakers.
I listen to just about everything. Electronic to Jazz - with some classical. Depeche Mode to Miles Davis. Jack Johnson to Talking Heads. Rolling Stones to Yello. Steely Dan to Kraftwerk. Seriously, I’m all over the map in my musical interests. That’s the fun!
As for sound, I really want to hear people and instruments in the room. I really want to hear a 100-percent natural sound. I also want to hear meat on the bones of instruments and voices. No delicate wispy outlines. Real solid instruments and humans rendered naturally in three-dimensional space... please.
I can’t stand hardness or brightness. I can’t emphasize this enough. That’s why I tend to skew towards tube amps. And yes, I have an extensive vinyl collection - but that’s off topic.
I listen to a lot of full-res Red Book 16/44. I also have a deep collection of 24-bit high-res, and a Tidal HIFI subscription. I switch between all of the above.
Over the past few weeks I have researched what’s out there right now in DACs. Based purely on online reviews and forums, I’m leaning heavily towards a R2R DAC.
Ideally, I’d keep my purchase price under $4,000. That might mean buying used for a few of my selected DACs. Less expensive is better.
Here’s my current preferred R2R DAC list:
Schitt Yggdrasil
MHDT Labs Orchid
MHDT Labs Pagoda
Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE
HoloAudio Spring DAC 2
Rockna Wavelight
Metrum Orchid
Denefrips Ares II
Denafrips Terminator
And two non R2R DACs I’m considering:
Lampizator Amber 3
RMA ADI-2 DAC FS
And yes, I could go back to an Ayre QB-9 DSD, and possibly upgrade it to an Ayre QB-9 Twenty - but so much has changed in the world of DACs. Why not take a fresh look at what’s new - right?
If you have any suggestions or insights based on experience with the above DACs - and my stated sound preferences - please chime in.
Thank you!
Here’s my DAC history…
About seven years ago I purchased an Ayre QB9. It was the original non-upgraded 24/96 version and I absolutely loved it. A few years later I had it upgraded by Ayre to the QB-9 DSD.
While I loved the original QB-9, I never completely loved the upgraded DSD version. The QB9 DSD was smoother and more detailed, but lost some of the musical immediacy and excitement of the original - at least for me.
To be fair, I never had the opportunity to compare the original QB-9 to the QB-9 DSD. In hindsight, I still really enjoyed listening to the QB-9 DSD, but had hoped for even more magic from the upgrade.
Right about then I started traveling extensively for work. Since I would not be home much, I sold the QB-9 DSD and bought a Audioquest Dragonfly Red - for the road.
Fast forward three years. I am no longer traveling for work as much and have the time and opportunity to set up a new home DAC. I’ll start with the Dragonfly Red, but I want something better.
My stereo system is comprised of a highly-modified Eico HF81 tube amp (EL84 for 14-watts) and a pair of highly modified Signet SL260 speakers. I also have a pair of Falcon LS3/5a speakers.
I listen to just about everything. Electronic to Jazz - with some classical. Depeche Mode to Miles Davis. Jack Johnson to Talking Heads. Rolling Stones to Yello. Steely Dan to Kraftwerk. Seriously, I’m all over the map in my musical interests. That’s the fun!
As for sound, I really want to hear people and instruments in the room. I really want to hear a 100-percent natural sound. I also want to hear meat on the bones of instruments and voices. No delicate wispy outlines. Real solid instruments and humans rendered naturally in three-dimensional space... please.
I can’t stand hardness or brightness. I can’t emphasize this enough. That’s why I tend to skew towards tube amps. And yes, I have an extensive vinyl collection - but that’s off topic.
I listen to a lot of full-res Red Book 16/44. I also have a deep collection of 24-bit high-res, and a Tidal HIFI subscription. I switch between all of the above.
Over the past few weeks I have researched what’s out there right now in DACs. Based purely on online reviews and forums, I’m leaning heavily towards a R2R DAC.
Ideally, I’d keep my purchase price under $4,000. That might mean buying used for a few of my selected DACs. Less expensive is better.
Here’s my current preferred R2R DAC list:
Schitt Yggdrasil
MHDT Labs Orchid
MHDT Labs Pagoda
Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE
HoloAudio Spring DAC 2
Rockna Wavelight
Metrum Orchid
Denefrips Ares II
Denafrips Terminator
And two non R2R DACs I’m considering:
Lampizator Amber 3
RMA ADI-2 DAC FS
And yes, I could go back to an Ayre QB-9 DSD, and possibly upgrade it to an Ayre QB-9 Twenty - but so much has changed in the world of DACs. Why not take a fresh look at what’s new - right?
If you have any suggestions or insights based on experience with the above DACs - and my stated sound preferences - please chime in.
Thank you!
35 responses Add your response
Thank you for all the feedback! I have looked into every DAC that’s been suggested, and added the T+A Dac 8 to my list. I’m also now seriously considering something not mentioned yet - the Burson Conductor 3 Reference. What has me looking at this new DAC are a number of recent off-the-charts reviews, and its remarkable versatility. Several reviewers claim it’s near state-of-the-art as a DAC, pre-amp and headphone amp. And it has a remote, Bluetooth, and two additional analog inputs. At $1,800, that’s quite a proposition. At the other extreme, the MHDT Labs Orchid is also tugging at me. Who says you can only own one DAC? I already have two sets of speakers that I love - for very different reasons. Thanks again for all the information. Truly appreciated. |
Super happy with my QB-9 Twenty upgrade (I agree with the review at audiophilestyle.com). Then again, I liked the DSD version. Did you use your DSD version in a fully balanced system? Some have reported it sounds best that way (I don't know because I've *only* used it that way). Have fun auditioning! |
In a struck of luck I pay 30 dollars for a Starting Point Systems Nos DAC new on Ebay...His minimalistic design (go and see for yourself) with internal battery, powered by an ifipower supply, gives me no limitations at all on all counts.... In my experience it is more, way more important to embed an electronic component than to upgrade it most of the times.... For this dac this truth is especially true....Minimal design coupled with a musical Philips tda 1543 blow my mind....I think that at his regular price and rightly embedded this dac kills anything in the scale ratio price/ S.Q. The only criticism I read about talk of a lack of details...Trust me this is caused not by this dac "per se" but by wrongly embedded method or lack of them, in the mechanical, electrical or acoustical dimensions of the reviewer most of the times .... |
Topping D90 is a good choice doesn't add or subtract gives you what's on the CD or File. Apos Audio offers 30 day trial. https://apos.audio/products/topping-d90-dac?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5P2esKOG6gIVIueGCh0FpgE5EAAYASAAEgIVAP... |
Hi eicoeico, noticed you are running a Tube Amp. My vote therefore goes to the Topping D90 as I'm currently running one with a Tube Amp. I also have musical tastes that are all over the place. My system, which I'll detail below, handles all my musical tastes with fantastic sounds. No harshness and not warm or muddied either. Voices and Instruments come right at me. I highly recommend that you trial the D90, as I believe there still is a money back offer when purchased, or try to borrow one locally to see what you think. The only other DAC I have tried is a Chord Qutest. Great DAC but a little warm sounding for my system. Can't say anything about others as I haven't tested them. I was considering a Denafrips Pontus or Venus to try R2R but just had a feeling they may be too bright within my system. It was just a 'feeling' though after reading reviews. Primaluna EVO 400 Integrated Amplifier Audioquest Ruby Interconnects Innuos Zenith MK3 1TB Streamer/CD Ripper Audioquest Coffee USB Cable Topping D90 MQA DAC Rega Planar 2 Turntable Cable Talk Monitor 2.1 Interconnects Rega Fono MK3 Phono Stage QED Silver Anniversary Speaker Cable Klipsch Forte 3 Speakers |
If you don't want accurate you're probably not going to like the RME ADI-2. The specs on it are about the same as a Benchmark DAC3, in other words they both measure beyond what's audible for humans so in a blind test everything else being equal they should sound the same which is they don't have a sound. |
Why? DACs shouldn't have sound signatures Every DAC I've listened to sounds at least slightly different. The Mytek Liberty I owned had excellent measurements, but I sold it and wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless they wanted something very analytical. Not my cup of tea, and not "natural" to my ears. Honestly, I could care less how my MHDT Orchid measures. It is detailed and organic sounding, and pleasing to my ears. It sounds like music. I love it for the way it sounds, not its measurements. |
Lancer705 - Thanks for the tip on the Bakoon. I’ll look into it. creditingkarma - Thanks for the tip on the Sonnett Morpheus. I hadn’t even heard of that brand. bjesien - Your QB-9 specific question would be great for a new thread. I would like to hear more about the QB-9 Twenty myself. I may have made an error when I used the word, "natural" to describe the sound I prefer. When I say natural, I mean true to life. That’s in stark contrast with "accurate" sound which tends to be analytical and cold. The only reason the RMA ADI-2 DAC FS is on my list is because some online reviews have said it’s natural in it’s presentation. This is compared to the Benchmark DAC2 and DAC3 which are universally praised as cold and accurate. That’s not for me. |
I was an early QB-9 customer and have been very happy with the dac. I didn't send it in for the DSD upgrade but am considering the Twenty upgrade for $1500. I'm interested in hearing from those that have heard the Twenty upgrade in comparison to other dacs. Anyone that's heard ANY QB-9 and can offer comparisons? Thanks! |
Maybe you should try listening instead of reading about measurements.Why? DACs shouldn't have sound signatures unless they have been purposely designed that way, i.e. tubes, R2R that measure lousy, in house filtering designs etc.. but the OP said he was looking for 100% natural sound so I assumed he didn’t want distortion generators. The RME ADI- 2 is a good choice as well. |
If you are looking for an r2r dac I would suggest the sonnett morpheus. It is designed by the same person that developed the metrum dacs. I used to have a metrum onyx that was really good. The morpheus is supposed to be on about the same level as the metrum pavane lv3. If you want to save and spend more I would say the dCS Bartok or perhaps the MSB discrete dac. Imo the d90 can't get close to the sound of an r2r dac if that is what you are looking for. There is also no way the topping d90 is on the same level as the morpheus let alone the MSB and dCS dacs. The topping has the latest chip inside but the analog side is where it is lacking compared to the other dacs above. |
I’ve never understood the point of still bothering with R2R DACs. I have no idea how it sounds but at least the Denafrips Ares II Maybe you should try listening instead of reading about measurements. The MHDT Labs Orchid is a fine DAC. It's the only one I have experience with, but have heard a lot of good things about the Tubadour. I'd like to try the Pagoda and see how it compares to the Orchid. |
Thank you for all the feedback. helomech - I looked into the Topping D90 and the reviews celebrate the DAC’s accuracy, detail and incredible value - but suggest it leans towards a cold and analytical presentation. Of course this is from reading a review or two, not personal experience. tomic601 - I’ve owned the same Eico HF81 since the mid-90s and modded it to ridiculous extremes. For example, the power supply is on a separate chassis. For my personal sound preferences, it’s stunning. I’d love to hear your friend’s Eicos! Eric - I have read - but not heard - about Mytek’s Brooklyn and Brooklyn II. That might be a step too far outside of my budget, but I’ll take another look in the Mytek direction. Thank you! Does anyone have a favorite sanely-priced R2R DAC? Please keep the feedback coming. It’s truly appreciated. |
Mytek. I have the Topping DX3. It sits in a drawer, I’m honestly not sure it’s even as good as the headphone outputs of my PC. Neutral? Bland. Think early Audio Research. The Mytek Brooklyn is what I love listening to, and from measurements, both these DACs are stellar performers. OTOH: Never heard a headphone amp as good as the Ayre diamond circuit. Best, E |
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