So you think wire conductors in cables are directional? Think again...
Here is a very relevant discussion among physicists about the directionality...the way signal and electrons should flow... based on conductor orientation. Some esoteric, high-end manufacturers say they listen to each conductor to see which way the signal should flow for the best audio quality.
Read this discussion. Will it make you rethink what you’re being told and sold?
There is a very good reason why so many snake oil screeches in Audiogon recently who just joined here. With a very targeted approach:
According the site that should not be named (you can easily guess which one), Audiogon Forums is the last audio forum standing, the last one the militia has not been overrun. Other that those run by dealers with strong moderation.
All members there were recently strongly “suggested” to create accounts and start posting here. Obviously none of them has any intentions of buying or selling anything. They don’t buy or sell audio gear typically. Not in this hobby for that.
Go back to yesiamjohn's first post and bask in the condensation from the higher road taken. Enjoy all that stuff we wouldn't buy anyway. 👍 Something tells me that who he's siding with is thinking: please don't be on my side.
Ya see how bizarre things are here djones51 and edgewound. I am now the thing under the bed now. You two made the mistake thinking this was an audio site? Nope? Instagram for audio children who never grew up past high school. Can't have a mature discussion about cable's here or audio. They are not interested. It's a cliche and you are not invited. How bizarre, how bizarre.
Ya see how bizarre things are here djones51 and edgewound. I am now the thing under the bed now. You two made the mistake thinking this was an audio site? Nope? Instagram for audio children who never grew up past high school. Can't have a mature discussion about cable's here or audio. They are not interested. It's a cliche and you are not invited. How bizarre, how bizarre.
Thank you for the comedy. I was laughing out loud.
boxer126,493 posts05-22-2021 5:50pmyesiamjohn, Since you're "new" here... Do you actually believe everyone who hears a difference in cables is delusional, or does that just pertain (in your opinion) to those who can hear a difference in wire directionality?
Would you be willing to participate in a double blind test to see if you can really tell if the signal flow in a wire is directional? Do you have the confidence in your hearing to discern the difference?
Ya see how bizarre things are here djones51 and edgewound
I guess that's part of the attraction. The things people claim they can hear in these cable threads is utterly bizarre. When I step back and think about it though I guess it isn't much different than the claims made in DAC and amplifier threads.
Why do you think it is a good thing that cable enthusiasts spend their money on cables and not the things that really matter? How would this make things better for you? How exactly is what you buy going to be cheaper and more abundant as a result of our buying decisions? Did your group ever consider that you might be wrong and keeping others from enjoying the benefits of things that have been identified incorrectly as snake oil? An incredibly stupid thing to say.
others,
I can just see those in your group mentoring a new enthusiast who just bought a more expensive cable. This new person thinks he has discovered something great which made his system sound better and is excited. Along come the snake oiler crowd and to follow is a verbal beratement which instills in this new person: buyers remorse, a unnecessary questioning of ability and the experience, frustration, anger and resentment. And many of you guys are angry feeling that somehow you have avoided the cable grifters and the numerous other pitfalls of high-end audio.
The objectivists are nothing more than a tribe, but the difference is you guys are a tribe of people whose focus is to tell people how and why they are wrong. Further you are telling others to doubt their senses when audio is a sensory experience. Guys I am perfectly happy to waste my money on the things that I think make a difference. I dont care that I may be enriching some snake oil salesman if in the process it brings me more enjoyment. I cant believe you dont see the difference in maturity of our 2 camps.
I can just see those in your group mentoring a new enthusiast who just bought a more expensive cable. This new person thinks he has discovered something great which made his system sound better and is excited.
Facing reality is sometimes difficult the more mature a person the easier it is for him or her to put it behind them and learn from the experience.
Well I knew this would be the response. The directionality of wire is not really what is important in this discussion. I really dont care, but the idea that someone who diminishes the personal experience as paramount in this hobby and is talking about a universal reality is very concerning. Because you are so quick to dismiss indicates to me that you are in no position to mentor anyone. The fact that you close your mind to other possibilities automatically disqualifies you as an objective source of information. You would portray your opinions as facts and quote some propeller head and to add credence.
Again lets compare experience and systems. Or do you believe that all systems are equally resolving? The fact that you are digital only is very telling as is my preference for vinyl.
No, all systems are not equally true to the source material. I never said anything about universal reality which is kind of a weird thing to bring up and I'm not sure what you mean by it. The preference for vinyl is a choice like digital again not getting the point. If your implying vinyl is better then that's your subjective opinion and a lot of people prefer vinyl but it's not an objective reality.
You mentioned "facing reality"! Which reality? To which objective and universal realities do you subscribe?
You mention learning from experience. I think this is especially funny coming from you. I would bet the farm on the fact that you have significantly less experience comparing and listening to the things you discuss on this forum than most of the subjectivists. What else can I expect from anyone that would buy a speaker on measurements alone.
Again discuss how long you have been listening and give me a peek at your system.
You just dont understand and absent this understanding I dont think you will allow yourself any more joy than you have already experienced because you are convinced you cant trust YOUR senses. Problem is that you are telling us that we cant trust ours either. I know misery loves company but give us a break!
There is only one reality from which we come from and through which we go interacting with other "realities", it is our own Body/ears//brain/consciousness.... No other one....
audition__audio844 posts05-23-2021 8:48amWell I knew this would be the response. The directionality of wire is not really what is important in this discussion.
Actually...It IS important to the discussion, because many manufacturers claim they "listen" to the wire to determine its directionality, therefore the cable has much better resolution, noise floor,"blacker background"... These claims can actually be backed up by measurement of the frequency response, resitance, capacitance, and inductance. Feelings can't be measured or quantified other than a very high price point....must be better because they said so.
I really dont care, but the idea that someone who diminishes the personal experience as paramount in this hobby and is talking about a universal reality is very concerning. Because you are so quick to dismiss indicates to me that you are in no position to mentor anyone. The fact that you close your mind to other possibilities automatically disqualifies you as an objective source of information. You would portray your opinions as facts and quote some propeller head and to add credence.
Ahhh...But you do care, otherwise you wouldn't be participating in this thread. It's your desire to "mentor"...Really? Are you this shallow to think you are a mentor to some young audio enthusiast that might go astray by FOMO from not going down the Rabbit Hole of spending thousands of dollars on cable that make magical claims, when their money is FAR better spent on amps and speakers that play well together. The magic starts in the quality of the recording, gets amplified and turned into air moving soundwaves by the speakers. Thousands of dollars of "audiophile" cables are not going to outperform "broadcast quality. If you get a thrill out spending car level money on cables, that's your prerogative. But "mentoring" someone to practice that is simply an attempt to justify a business model built on lies and fantasy.
Again lets compare experience and systems. Or do you believe that all systems are equally resolving? The fact that you are digital only is very telling as is my preference for vinyl.
Of course not all systems are equally resolving. It's a statement like this that reveals that your mind is closed to anyone that disputes what you believe in, and simply will not tolerate any discussion of why. Your mind is made up. Refusal to participate in blind listening tests, measurements of electrical properties, etc., is akin to believing that bloodletting is a good medical practice.
As far as vinyl vs. digital goes, each has a reason for it's preference. I simply like to hear excellent recordings. Vinyl can do that, along with the romance of ritual with an LP record and accompanying packaging. From a purely technical standpoint, modern digital done right far surpasses that of a vinyl record. Ask Bob Clearmountain and Bob Ludwig.
That said....it's not at all surprising that you folks throw tantrums and insults when not agreed with in lockstep. You get what you give.
For some reason you want to know my system. I don't see the relevance but it's strictly digital. Lumin U1 mini streamer, 2 Genelec 7350 subwoofers and 2 Genelec 8351b monitors GLM calibration. Various room treatments. Pro mogami AES3 cables. This is now I've had more gear than worth mentioning, including vinyl and tubes. What I've learned is respect the measurements, engineering, source media and reputation of the manufacturers and they'll get you better sound than playing with worthless tweaks and lousy measuring speakers which is about 85% of your listening experience anyway along with the room.
djones514,034 posts05-23-2021 2:49pmFor some reason you want to know my system. I don't see the relevance but it's strictly digital. Lumin U1 mini streamer, 2 Genelec 7350 subwoofers and 2 Genelec 8351b monitors GLM calibration. Various room treatments. Pro mogami AES3 cables. This is now I've had more gear than worth mentioning, including vinyl and tubes. What I've learned is respect the measurements, engineering, source media and reputation of the manufacturers and they'll get you better sound than playing with worthless tweaks and lousy measuring speakers which is about 85% of your listening experience anyway along with the room.
You do realize those Genelecs are simply to sterile, clinical and lifeless to do you any good. You must replace your Mogami interconnects with something north of $20 grand to darken...blacken, if you will... the background palette, eliminate the noise floor to a bottomless quantum tunnel, and soften the edges of those godawful tweeters. Probably Quantum Tunneled power cables and fuses will add to your enjoyment from such a rudimentary, beginner, entry level system.😉😂
A LUMIN U1!! Wow! Big advancements on the streaming front. I am shocked! What made you change your mind from “streaming from a laptop, or Chromecast Audio is just as good”? And zeroes and ones for streaming is all there is to it?
It was a rhetorical question. I knew what were you going to say. I always know what you fair folks would say before I even ask a question. Very predictable gents.
It’s like the third lieutenant in command with the audio militia over at the audio super reinforcement forums with a Mola Mola Tambaquie DAC he owns vs. a Topping DAC. He paid all this extra money (huge difference in price between the two) just for the looks apparently, because they measure the same and therefore sound the same
Nonoise, Yes, the username list was copied from another thread.
Edgewhatever, I'm not sure of the correlation between what you copied & myself being blindfolded. If you are asking if I hear a difference in cables, that is affirmative & something I proved to myself about 30 years ago in a system that is much less resolving than my current one. What happen to your friend BTW?
I don’t know him, nor do I know anyone else posting here. The only member that has ever PMed me is GeoffKait, and it seems he’s been suspended. Interesting character. He seems drawn to me for some reason, that I’d rather not try to analyze.
I can assure everyone here edgewound is NOT Dletch2, Audio2Design, Atdavid, Dannad, etc. or any of the reiterates of that entity. That one was way smarter, and knew a thing or two, despite the sick tendencies of what he used that knowledge for. This Edgewood guy is just a wannabe copycat
thyname1,275 posts05-23-2021 6:32pmI can assure everyone here edgewound is NOT Dletch2, Audio2Design, Atdavid, Dannad, etc. or any of the reiterates of that entity. That one was way smarter, and knew a thing or two, despite the sick tendencies of what he used that knowledge for. This Edgewood guy is just a wannabe copycat.
I copy no one’s behavior. I’d especially not wannabe like you, bub. Alan Parson's wrote a song about it.
Well, all the electrons I have ever interviewed told me that SOME electrons like to drink a bit, and may get confused and actually go the WRONG WAY down a wire, but once they sober up, all is well again.
The target audience is audio Professionals. Higher ground than audiophiles. Audio Professionals trickle down to audiophiles.
Hmmm....really hate to put it this way but simply put that right there is pretty well proof positive you really don’t have a clue...
And for the record, I’ve played in both the audiophile and "Professional" sandboxes for several decades.
And also for the record, Genelec does make some very good speakers ( btw, that being said, they are not like a lot of the other folks in that field....even though they most likely all "met the requirements"...).
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