So you think wire conductors in cables are directional? Think again...

Ahem .... I got something the objectivists can chew on. Given the complexity, this will probably take them some times. Unless, djones et al ... can possess sonar capability, hearing by itself is not going to give you accurate localization.

Funny thing is there are numerous examples of people having something very much akin to sonar. It generally is referred to as echolocation, and has been the focus of some experiments/studies, scientific-like and everything ( they probably even use voltmeters and stuff ).

One of the most interesting take-a-ways is that in folks who are really adept at echolocation acoustic information is to an interesting extent processed by the part of the brain usually reserved for visual processing ( which kinda sorta means they see with their ears !? )....

And just taking a wee leap sideways from that ....wonder how this process to develop the ability to use echolocation ( like we all have it though some folks have developed a greater ability in that area...blind people, for obvious reasons...) intersects with the learned ability among some in the audiophile community to play the imaging game with our systems ( which requires, at a minimum, good ears,a well sorted system/acoustic environment, ability to focus attention to acoustic cues/detail, and some imagination to make the leap from purely visual/acoustic data processing to some combination thereof that results in imaging...) ...

Bottom line it may well be we all have the ability to play sonar games and we often do when we sit in front of our systems and get blown away by the imaging...

Cheers

The target audience is audio Professionals. Higher ground than audiophiles. Audio Professionals trickle down to audiophiles.

Hmmm....really hate to put it this way but simply put that right there is pretty well proof positive you really don’t have a clue...

And for the record, I’ve played in both the audiophile and "Professional" sandboxes for several decades.

And also for the record, Genelec does make some very good speakers ( btw, that being said, they are not like a lot of the other folks in that field....even though they most likely all "met the requirements"...).

Cheers

Yeah you are right, they doesn’t seem like much on paper....but when you have the chance give them a listen...they may surprise you...

Cheers

Yeah those active ATC ones are tres nice ain’t they.....really surprised how much better they were than their non-active kin, which until I heard the active ones thought they were pretty good...

Cheers

....or....

If you hear a difference but your measurement instruments are saying no difference, then maybe you are measuring the wrong thing...

.

Cheers

how much air is in a room at any given moment

....?....

Since it is " at any given moment" we can rule out altitude issues. Then we have to assume that air pressure changes over a given moment are at play and that would require air movement. So, any thoughts about how the direction of the air flow would affect the sound ? ( you know, as it moves in and out of the room ).

Cheers

That's a great question. Air is the medium that carries sound waves in a listening room...unless your listening under water...where sounds waves travel faster. Notice how sound is different on a hot clear day vs. humid day vs. cold, cloudy, or especially foggy day?

Would it make sense that the changes in atmospheric conditions in a room would have an influence of soundwave transmission? No medium...no sound. Sound travels through different mediums at different speeds. That's something you can find with a Google search.

All that is patently obvious....the question was about "how much air is in the room" and exactly what effect there is when it changes and how that kind of change would occur "at any given moment" ( which implies a change over a very short time-frame ).
Cheers

Since we’re only concerned about the bandwidth audible to humans and runs of cable in feet not miles we don’t need to worry about skin effect

It may be a bit more complex than that....see below a part of a comment from Bob Smith in the following article...

https://www.dagogo.com/audio-blast-schroeder-method-interconnect-placement/

"Noteworthy in the above is the fact that the Capacitance doubles and the upper Cutoff Frequency (where above which the signal begins to be attenuated) almost doubles. So in the event that we “double-up” our audio cables, we actually extend their bandwidth – albeit we are talking in the region of radio frequencies so there is no real benefit there with respect to extending the fundamental audio bandwidth.

What IS significant though is the fact that all of the above leads to a potential reduction in reflected energy and/or standing waves within the cable, and that is because of two primary factors. By lowering the Character Impedance and consequently, raising the Cutoff Frequency, we “push” or force any potential reflections up to twice the frequency at which they would otherwise occur. That then leads to two other outcomes. First, higher frequencies find it more difficult to propagate down the length of any conductor due to the “skin effect,” and are therefore usually attenuated more with respect to those that occur at lower frequencies. As a result, lower magnitude levels of reflected energy translates into less interaction with the Source and Load circuits. That means less potential for the formation of any associated Phase Distortion artifacts as outlined above.

Second, any modulation effects that do arise will be shifted up to higher frequencies right along with their higher “carrier” (the frequency of the reflected signal), thereby making them less detectable to human hearing.

In all the above, the only potential negative concern might be the increased Capacitance, as theoretically that “could” cause a roll off of the highest frequencies in the region around 20KHz. In most cases though where there is reasonable output capability of the Source’s output stage, this should seldom – if ever – be a problem.

In summery, doubling cables as in the Schroeder Method seems to be a viable technique in an effort to create a “composite” cable the exhibits higher bandwidth, and hence less and/or potentially fewer forms of Inter-modulation Distortion. Thus, it only makes sense that listeners would observe an improvement in the resulting sound of their systems by implementing it."

A reasonably close analogy would be reducing the room generated noise thru acoustic treatment to produce a lower noise floor.

Cheers

jasonbourne52 As Martin Luther said a half milenea ago, Reason is the enemy of faith (in cables?)

"Reason is the capacity of consciously applying logic based on new or existing information.[1][need quotation to verify] It is closely associated with such characteristically human activities as philosophy, science, language, mathematics, and art, and is normally considered to be a distinguishing ability possessed by humans.[2] Reason is sometimes referred to as rationality.[3]

Reasoning is associated with the acts of thinking and cognition, and involves using one’s intellect."

....where cognition is defined as....

"Cognition (/kɒɡˈnɪʃ(ə)n/ (listen)) refers to "the mental action or process of acquiring knowledge and understanding through thought, experience, and the senses".[2] It encompasses many aspects of intellectual functions and processes such as: perception, attention, the formation of knowledge, memory and working memory, judgment and evaluation, reasoning and "computation", problem solving and decision making, comprehension and production of language. Cognitive processes use existing knowledge and discover new knowledge. "

One may note that nowhere in the above is reason allied with the blind faith in theory that has not incorporated within in its framework all available observations...in fact quite the opposite...one of the functions of reason is to extend comprehension thru new observations and understandings.

And btw never realized Luther was an audiophile...though did know he prized music highly so it does make sense he was....learn new stuff everyday eh....thank you....do you think he was an analog or digital guy ?...

Edit....that quote-ish thingee you used basically says that Luther, a man of faith, should be considered an enemy of reason....so that got me thinking like what exactly was your point ?.....thought originally it was along the lines of the battle btwn theory and belief beyond existing theory that has been waged in the cable world for centuries....but maybe not....colour me confused.

Cheers

Bob Smith and y’all need to go back to school. Not much point in refuting as half of ya will get it, and the other half will scream blue murder. Just say Bob Smith should stick to commenting on Dagogo. The audience there won’t know enough to make fun of him

So let me get this straight, the choice is listen to Bob, who is a really nice guy and actually knows stuff, or listen to you. Now this may come as a complete shock to you and all your legions of fans here, but I’m going with Bob, the really nice guy who actually knows stuff.

And btw, I kinda know a guy whose father may have recently got a Nobel Prize in Physics, so there is that there too ...like just covering all the bases eh.

Cheers.

Y’all post a copy of your PhD with transcript and I will post mine?

So you don’t have one...not surprised, but hey, that is ok, not everyone can have one, like you have to be special eh....a word of advice, don’t cry about it, just get on with your life and you’ll be fine...I mean look at all the wonderful work you’ve done here over the years...

Cheers

Never said I had one or not, but one thing for sure, neither or ya have even a university degree in what we are talking about.

Kinda funny but you don’t either....and considering the circumstances actually really funny....

Cheers

Bet ya not willing to wager on that one are ya cowboy? Giddy up.
Clearthink, did an American treat you poorly or something. Ya seems to have a real hate on for us Yanks.

....ok I am willing, I wager $10(USD).......
Cheers

Yup, a conductive alloy that is liquid at room temperature....and has been used to very good effect in audio cables for over a decade.

Cheers

The three levels of entry level cables are not that pricey given the performance they deliver ( the entry you posted btw is quite old and we have since extensively revamped the line-up to include some more cost friendly products ).....and as for the HAZMAT issue, it does apply to one of the elements found in the alloy, but not the alloy itself which is very stable ( the problem with gallium is it melts aluminum and since the HAZMAT folks are closely tied to the airline industry anything that could potentially compromise an air-frame at altitude is a big problem, therefore the HAZMAT issue ) ...as for the implied negative interactions of the alloy with clients, not a problem, in fact the alloy has been used in medical grade thermometers as a safe alternative to mercury for a couple of decades now ).

Cheers

You might have a point if resistance was the only parameter that mattered...but it isn’t.

Btw it doesn’t sound like you have ever listened to one of our cables....have you?...like I would hate to jump to the conclusion that you are doing a drive-by thru just auditioning by spec sheet.

Cheers