Create a thread where you can praise each other of how sensible and clever you are. We are not going to iterfere there or try to convince you by any means.
It's already been done. It's the link the OP provided.
All the best,
Nonoise
So you think wire conductors in cables are directional? Think again...
Here is a very relevant discussion among physicists about the directionality...the way signal and electrons should flow... based on conductor orientation. Some esoteric, high-end manufacturers say they listen to each conductor to see which way the signal should flow for the best audio quality.
Read this discussion. Will it make you rethink what you’re being told and sold?
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-a-copper-conductor-directional.975195/
Read this discussion. Will it make you rethink what you’re being told and sold?
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-a-copper-conductor-directional.975195/
Showing 39 responses by nonoise
Ah, with a little bit of sleuthing, I found the article from the failed link where one of the engineers for Pink Floyd talks of how they built the recording studio on the Astoria. About 2/3 of the way down he goes into detail on how cables sound different one way over the other and that one is a better sounding way: https://www.davidgilmour.com/press/2005/march/TapeOp_March05.pdf But hey, he's only a recording engineer working with Pink Floyd so what do they know? All the best, Nonoise |
There used to be a working link I've used in past discussions on cable directionality and it's not coming up anymore. (http://www.tubemastering.com/philtaylor.pdf )It had to do with Pink Floyd and the building of a studio on the Astoria (David Gilmore's house boat), a boat they used to record on. In between sessions, they swapped cable directions and easily heard the differences, preferring one way over the other. The best I can do right now was to find an article that doesn't go into it in such depth but speaks to the differences in cabling that can be heard. https://www.soundonsound.com/people/recording-david-gilmours-island Scroll down to the "Grounding on Water" section in grey. There's also this from Tony Farinella who makes the cables that David Gilmore uses: http://sparebricks.fika.org/sbzine28/ggg.html There is a section where he discusses cable directionality. Let's see... another non working link to TapeOp about the house boat and cable directionality....can't find anything else for the moment. All the best, Nonoise |
In the red corner, we have the amateur objectivists, who have brought their top high school level physics game, and a small but loud group of supporters.You must be new around these parts. What you're describing, as if for the first time, has been going on for way too many years. Nothing about any of these discussions is new- just the latest crop of objectivists raising old arguments. All the best, Nonoise |
I am very much not new to audio. This is not an objectivist/subjectivist thing. I was very much make fun of both. Anyone who uses those terms in a serious manner is not an audiophile, but they want everyone else to think they are. This had been going on a long time. It will stop for the most part eventually. The hanger ons keep getting older and older.Maybe it's the format. I dunno. I never said, nor implied, you were new to audio, just to this site (unless you're another reincarnation). If you think we're all gonna die off and leave you king of the hill, well thanks for that humor, again. All the best, Nonoise |
Belden isn’t a person. It’s a company. It may be company policy to not mention cable directionality but the people who work there may think otherwise. Case in point: my speaker cables were made by a former Belden engineer who worked there for over 20 years. He labeled his cables as directional and said so with the paperwork that came with them. Maybe he felt the other guys couldn’t hear what he was hearing. Kind of like, here. All the best, Nonoise |
Who really cares? You're not here for the listening pleasure, you're here for a pie fight. This had been going on a long time. It will stop for the most part eventually. The hanger ons keep getting older and older.It's just winning by attrition by your own words so you and your "team" can claim victory on just another audio site. Then it's crusade, over. You need to stop obsessing like this is a life or death struggle, unless it gives your life some sort of meaning. Love to see you act like this at some audio show and laugh at the reaction you'd get. There'd be no time to enjoy the popcorn. All the best, Nonoise |
No one outside this thread looks at it like your kind do. You prod, stick and stir and sit back and pretend to be a neutral observer. If this is the latest version of who I think you are, your attempts at disguising yourself by taking a different tack are starting to show. As for the reluctance on the part of others, including women, to chime in, it's not because of us. They stay clear because of you and the way you infest a conversation. Do you really see yourself as "getting things done, making change happen, rocking that boat, and willing to stand out"? How brave and righteous of you. The way you describe yourself borders on delusional. Where's my Boy Scout badge? All the best, Nonoise |
All it takes nowadays to be an "expert" is to just go out and buy some test equipment you can afford and viola!, you're an expert. Now you can measure to your hearts content being guided by your expectation bias as the measurements you make bear out what you always believed to be true. It is, after all, your intention. Gabriel Galen procured lots of patents that Belden Cables holds and with 32 years as one of their chief engineers, can't be summarily dismissed. He's been wholly of the objectivist camp for most of his entire life. He says that it's impossible to accurately measure inductance with any meter priced below $8,000. The Hewlett-Packard LCR machine he measures on costs $80,000. How many objectivists posting here have access to or use this level of test equipment? When Gabriel set out to design his line of Iconoclast cables (done at Blue Jeans Cables) he discovered that UP- OCC, OFE, ETPC copper all sound different from each other yet it can't be measured. He still builds by measurement (each cable comes with it's own certificate with all the specs), but lets the consumer choose which level of copper to pick for the build. Even this objectivists admits that not everything can be measured. All the best, Nonoise |
Time to get yerself educated. The problem with self-education is the glaring reality that you have not been educated in the first place.You do know that a 1 1/2 yr old child is self aware? Right? I trust your "moronic" comment will be removed, because it's abusive. But....with the fratboy mentality of rules enforcement around here, I highly doubt it. Yet you have the audacity to say that. All the best, Nonoise |
So now you’re back pedaling on what constitutes the cost of the cheaper test equipment? That maybe they’re all created equal and is just the price exchange of different countries. Right...... As for ASR, it’s been ridiculed for how they measure and the costs of it’s test equipment by other test measuring sites. Surely you’ve know that for awhile. As for Gabriel Galen’s expertise, you’ve got so much to learn. Just a hobbyist? Try google. Enjoy your popcorn from the cheap seats. The view from there is very limited but you can still have fun. All the best, Nonoise |
For crying out loud, what is wrong with you people? I’ve never said, implied or proffered anything saying measurements don’t matter. Just that they can’t measure everything. You guys are bending over backwards to justify your inability to hear and having to rely on test measurements to make yourself feel better. If you can’t hear it, fine. No one is going to fault you for that. If you can’t afford it and begrudge others who can, then that’s a different kettle of fish, isn’t it? Practically every, single argument lets slip the cost factor, even when it’s not brought up by those who are willing to pay just a little more for something that sounds better. Get over it. As for the better accuracy of the more expensive test equipment and the negating of it since it’s not necessary for your purposes, you’re gonna have to do better than that. All sugabooger is doing is some really poor rationalizing, spilling his popcorn. Even John Atkinson mentioned the limits of some modern day test equipment that couldn’t hold a candle to the ones he learned with in the old days. Those scopes showed more, varying info than the newer ones which showed nothing amiss. As for HP now having a different owner and a new name and calling me out on it is juvenile, at best, and shows just how desperate you are to be right. The machine he uses still is called HP. You're bordering on moronic. All the best, Nonoise |
More like 🤡 🤮 💤 So you found something from 5 years ago that's basically a diatribe against subjectivists with lots of "science" and "math" behind it. This is not the audio Rosetta Stone. Too bad the guy can't hear all that well or he'd be just as suspect of all he wrote as we are. What it does answer is the $64K question: Where's Waldo? All the best, Nonoise |
Do you two jokers know how many times stuff like that has been linked to in discussions like this, long before you showed up? Did you expect to see lots of white flags waving? Unconditional surrender? Granted, that math and science is all over my head, and always has been, which is why I rely on my ears, which seemingly, you can't, or are afraid to. The reason doesn't matter: that's your cross to bear. All the best, Nonoise |
I found some video of the objectivists at their last meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgYEuJ5u1K0 All the best, Nonoise |
If you trust your own brain, in a sited listening test, even though physics tells you that what you perceive you are hearing is impossible, then you a self deluded, whether intelligent or not. If further measurements validates the physics and you still are trusting your perception, then are you an audiophile?And (not so) cleverly hidden in that statement is a faulty premise. They are saying you can't hear what is being measured but not everything can be, and is being, measured. We are not at the height of scientific achievements and, as has been already pointed out, they need better tools to measure with. This is turning out to be a knock-off of Revenge of the Nerds. All the best, Nonoise |
LOL...We ALL practice psychology everyday. Professional, licensed psychologists are just like every other paid profession. Some are very good...Some are not, and shouldn’t be in the profession...because they're in it simply for the money, and to practice control of the needy. Just like some cable manufacturers.Some of those very good psychologists you seem to have "scientifically" qualified with that statement would have a field day with you. Maybe even write a thesis on their time interviewing you. But wait, would you demand a double blind interview, with you and a ringer behind a curtain, speaking through some form of Autotune to mask your voices so as to sound the same? All the best, Nonoise |
@oldhvymec, Thanks for pointing out the hypocrisy of his statement. Having to twice quote me, first with a "I'm rubber, you're glue" childish retort, and then to be so patently opportunistic and hide behind a holier than thou comeback (probably thought of it right after posting his first) speaks volumes to his character. That homeless guy I blew off was just a casually dressed, middle aged moocher, hanging around the gas station. Not anything like the ones I see on my morning walks, looking like they belong in an institution. Too well dressed to actually sleep on the sidewalk, but haggardly looking to suggest he likes his vices. Then we have to deal with someone, here, who's losing an argument and just can't move on. All the best, Nonoise |
Why do some retorts always fall back on the costs of uber expensive cables when it's not brought up to begin with? That belies a lot angst on the part of some. As for the "report button" alluded to, it doesn't disappear. Just move your cursor over to where it resides (lower right hand corner) and it will appear, like Tinker Bell, and pressing it will reward you with untold powers to silence those you disagree with. All the best, Nonoise |
The trouble with you, snratio is that you just can't stand to have anyone disagree with you and you have to win at any cost. You were never here to discuss audio: you were here to convert. You've come back in many different guises after being repeatedly taken down. What started out as a feigned difference in opinion on audio turned quickly into a need to dominate this site with your nonsense. It's all you care about and all you do now is simply troll at every opportunity. Do you think you're extracting some kind of revenge? You're more of a nuisance as you whack-a-mole yourself from thread to thread. Enjoy the journey. Is your guru disappointed in you? All the best, Nonoise |