So you think wire conductors in cables are directional? Think again...
Here is a very relevant discussion among physicists about the directionality...the way signal and electrons should flow... based on conductor orientation. Some esoteric, high-end manufacturers say they listen to each conductor to see which way the signal should flow for the best audio quality.
Read this discussion. Will it make you rethink what you’re being told and sold?
Since it is " at any given moment" we can rule out altitude issues. Then we have to assume that air pressure changes over a given moment are at play and that would require air movement. So, any thoughts about how the direction of the air flow would affect the sound ? ( you know, as it moves in and out of the room ).
Cheers
That's a great question. Air is the medium that carries sound waves in a listening room...unless your listening under water...where sounds waves travel faster. Notice how sound is different on a hot clear day vs. humid day vs. cold, cloudy, or especially foggy day?
Would it make sense that the changes in atmospheric conditions in a room would have an influence of soundwave transmission? No medium...no sound. Sound travels through different mediums at different speeds. That's something you can find with a Google search.
Show me your evidence. Don’t tell me. I have friend that’s a PhD in physics. Experts in science require evidence. So far, you’ve provided none to the discussion.
It is already explicit to the data or points shared in the post you answered. Their fundamental and published points in physics and the associated gleaned data in the academic texts says it all, quite clearly.
It is accepted, published and taught information at the basic levels of the physics of conductivity and how that works with transmission lines.
This illustrates that you don’t even know the nature of the questions you are asking, or know the practices, intelligence, capacities, or the integrity of the people and industries you are accusing of being in error. I’m not saying that you can’t learn but you are headed down that road, in a fairly public fashion ---if you continue on the same path. Wanna share your name? My name is Ken Hotte. It is a known name and a known face. How about sharing your own? Got something to hide?Or not?
Since we're only concerned about the bandwidth audible to humans and runs of cable in feet not miles we don't need to worry about skin effect. Nothing posted on this thread supports or explains why copper wire has a different sound depending on direction.
It is clear by now our “friend” Edgewood’s post here is not about the directionality of the cables. It’s about cables in general. That “snake oil”. Question for you: what is your audio system? Can you post it under “systems” here? Thanks
That's a great question. Air is the medium that carries sound waves in a
listening room...unless your listening under water...where sounds waves
travel faster. Notice how sound is different on a hot clear day vs.
humid day vs. cold, cloudy, or especially foggy day?
Would it
make sense that the changes in atmospheric conditions in a room would
have an influence of soundwave transmission? No medium...no sound. Sound
travels through different mediums at different speeds. That's something
you can find with a Google search.
All that is patently obvious....the question was about "how much air is in the room" and exactly what effect there is when it changes and how that kind of change would occur "at any given moment" ( which implies a change over a very short time-frame ). Cheers
"Noteworthy in the above is the fact that the Capacitance doubles and the upper Cutoff Frequency (where above which the signal begins to be attenuated) almost doubles. So in the event that we “double-up” our audio cables, we actually extend their bandwidth – albeit we are talking in the region of radio frequencies so there is no real benefit there with respect to extending the fundamental audio bandwidth.
What IS significant though is the fact that all of the above leads to a potential reduction in reflected energy and/or standing waves within the cable, and that is because of two primary factors. By lowering the Character Impedance and consequently, raising the Cutoff Frequency, we “push” or force any potential reflections up to twice the frequency at which they would otherwise occur. That then leads to two other outcomes. First, higher frequencies find it more difficult to propagate down the length of any conductor due to the “skin effect,” and are therefore usually attenuated more with respect to those that occur at lower frequencies. As a result, lower magnitude levels of reflected energy translates into less interaction with the Source and Load circuits. That means less potential for the formation of any associated Phase Distortion artifacts as outlined above.
Second, any modulation effects that do arise will be shifted up to higher frequencies right along with their higher “carrier” (the frequency of the reflected signal), thereby making them less detectable to human hearing.
In all the above, the only potential negative concern might be the increased Capacitance, as theoretically that “could” cause a roll off of the highest frequencies in the region around 20KHz. In most cases though where there is reasonable output capability of the Source’s output stage, this should seldom – if ever – be a problem.
In summery, doubling cables as in the Schroeder Method seems to be a viable technique in an effort to create a “composite” cable the exhibits higher bandwidth, and hence less and/or potentially fewer forms of Inter-modulation Distortion. Thus, it only makes sense that listeners would observe an improvement in the resulting sound of their systems by implementing it."
A reasonably close analogy would be reducing the room generated noise thru acoustic treatment to produce a lower noise floor.
I’ve got a revelation for the screamers that want graphs and science to prove it all for them without their participation. Technical information is a great start, but in the end, how about you methodically switch your cabling directions and listen to a top shelf recording you are very familiar that not only has exceptional left to right soundstage, but also front to back? Change your cabling around and let your ears and your visceral senses fully engage. Do this several times over an extended period when you are in various frames of mind. Hell, have someone else change the cabling around for you (or not do it all at times to keep you honest) and keep a log of how it sounds compared to previous listening. I find listening in pitch darkness works the best, but that’s me. Easily achieved by simply closing your eyes. I think you’ll find graphs of readings on a test bench really aren’t as important in the end. The experience of great music washing over you is all that matters. Anyone that buys all of their components solely based on how they look on a pretty graph are missing what is most important. Trust your ears and your other senses. If this doesn’t work for you best to pick a different hobby. You’ll find too much anger and frustration here and will spend too much time lashing out at others trying to beat them into a corner instead of finding the joy that comes from sonic bliss.
Bob Smith and y'all need to go back to school. Not much point in refuting as half of ya will get it, and the other half will scream blue murder. Just say Bob Smith should stick to commenting on Dagogo. The audience there won't know enough to make fun of him.
The trouble with you, snratio is that you just can't stand to have anyone disagree with you and you have to win at any cost. You were never here to discuss audio: you were here to convert. You've come back in many different guises after being repeatedly taken down.
What started out as a feigned difference in opinion on audio turned quickly into a need to dominate this site with your nonsense. It's all you care about and all you do now is simply troll at every opportunity.
Do you think you're extracting some kind of revenge? You're more of a nuisance as you whack-a-mole yourself from thread to thread. Enjoy the journey. Is your guru disappointed in you?
Wow, the OP is trying to erase history. Sorry fella, it doesn't work that way. You're gonna make yourself persona non grata soon enough and then what will you do? This will follow you to any thread you go to.
One may note that nowhere in the above is reason allied with the blind faith in theory that has not incorporated within in its framework all available observations...in fact quite the opposite...one of the functions of reason is to extend comprehension thru new observations and understandings.
And btw never realized Luther was an audiophile...though did know he prized music highly so it does make sense he was....learn new stuff everyday eh....thank you....do you think he was an analog or digital guy ?...
Edit....that quote-ish thingee you used basically says that Luther, a man of faith, should be considered an enemy of reason....so that got me thinking like what exactly was your point ?.....thought originally it was along the lines of the battle btwn theory and belief beyond existing theory that has been waged in the cable world for centuries....but maybe not....colour me confused.
Bob Smith and y’all need to go back to school. Not much point in refuting as half of ya will get it, and the other half will scream blue murder. Just say Bob Smith should stick to commenting on Dagogo. The audience there won’t know enough to make fun of him
So let me get this straight, the choice is listen to Bob, who is a really nice guy and actually knows stuff, or listen to you. Now this may come as a complete shock to you and all your legions of fans here, but I’m going with Bob, the really nice guy who actually knows stuff.
And btw, I kinda know a guy whose father may have recently got a Nobel Prize in Physics, so there is that there too ...like just covering all the bases eh.
Bein nice and 4 years don't get you an education. If he knows "stuff" then why does he say so much stuff that is wrong? Ya all like to post links, but ya may want to find out if those links are from people who know their "stuff", and not just saying what you want to hear. Hear .. pun intended.
snratio"Bein nice and 4 years don't get you an education. If he knows "stuff" then why does he say so much stuff that is wrong?"
You seem to be oozing, "foaming at the mouth" with ignorance, misinformation, and a grand ego and obviously in need to finish your education at least to the level of high school although if you are in the US even that level may not be be sufficient, adequate, or extensive enough to cure you of your youthful exuberance, confidence, and sense of absolute, guaranteed, perfect infallibilty so just stay with getting an education and you may get there also if you are in the US consider Scouting it is very good for some youth!
Y'all post a copy of your PhD with transcript and I will post mine? No? Didn't think so. Ya all blustery, but ya got nuthing. I look at your posts. They are all the same, just change the words up a bit. Nary a word that relates to the topic. Do ya have anything to add to this topic? Why don't y'all with your foaming mouth tell us all how the cable bandwidth doubles.
edgewound"I recognize everything about you, just from this post. Alan Parsons wrote a song exactly about you. Be very careful...Karma is watching."
Is this a threat @edgewound ? What is it exactly, precisely, and concisely that you plan to do don't be shy be a man come out and state you're case big man be brave bold don't let anyone push you around, silence you, or limit your expression in any way you are a Brave American I am sure!
Ya spelling unflinching wrong. How many of these wire guys ya think draw their own copper or silver? Belden? Ya don't listen to draw direction, ya pull out the microscope.
Y’all post a copy of your PhD with transcript and I will post mine?
So you don’t have one...not surprised, but hey, that is ok, not everyone can have one, like you have to be special eh....a word of advice, don’t cry about it, just get on with your life and you’ll be fine...I mean look at all the wonderful work you’ve done here over the years...
Getting carried away here. Perhaps this scientific video will help explain why cables matter. I'm not affiliated with First Run Copper Cables in any way.
I gotta thank ya for telling me about Bob Smith. Found his web site. That is some darn good fiction he has got going there. Can't tell if if he don't know what he is talking about or he figures his customers won't know the difference. Fine situational comedy. Don't need the Friends reunion when ya got that.
thynameither high, or just a kid with a computer in mom's basement
The user seems to be a bright child of about age 11 and if he is in the US then he may very well also be high I understand such use is common in American children.
Bet ya not willing to wager on that one are ya cowboy? Giddy up. Clearthink, did an American treat you poorly or something. Ya seems to have a real hate on for us Yanks.
Apparently the person behind dletch2, audio2design, sugabooger, atdavid, dannad, heaudio, hotdogbob, plus several others, that now calls himself snratio thinks that if he talks like a cowboy, no one will realize it is the same person. How long until this one gets the boot as well? Hopefully not long.
Y'all got some strange conspiracy theories going here. I missed reading that whole California thread before it got deleted, but looks like that was just the icing on the cake. Gonna guess ya were in that thread weren't ya csmgolf? Gonna
Was not in that thread pardner. But there is no mistake as to who you are. Puttin all of the Yas and Y'alls and cut little isms in there doesn't change a thing. Still the same message, attitude, and person. Hopefully this stay is as short or shorter than all of the others.
I wouldn't doubt that snratio also has a side business spamming people with constant emails, forever changing his address to avoid being sorted as junk, with those ads for male enhancement with that guy drinking from a giant gourd somewhere in Africa.
Bet ya not willing to wager on that one are ya cowboy? Giddy up. Clearthink, did an American treat you poorly or something. Ya seems to have a real hate on for us Yanks.
....ok I am willing, I wager $10(USD)....... Cheers
Perhaps a more pertinent / relevant question is the difference between solid core vs stranded cable. The difference can be very distinct. I find good solid core such as AQ or Transparent to have a very solid grounded sound whereas good stranded cable such as the QED Genesis Silver Spiral has a marvelously airy sound and huge soundstage. Directional signal flow optimization may indeed be real, but the difference is not near as much. I do own directional speaker cables and have experimented.
I like: Silversmith, Inakustik, Black Cat and for value Analysis Plus. What I have heard from Purist was also extremely good. The best small company cable I have heard is Bionics Cable which may have to be made to order.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
