Simaudio 340 i hard to beat for the $$

Moonriver 404 Reference 

Norma Revo 140

 Why are you so convinced the 340i is limiting the soundstage? Could be your room.

If you already have a “good” soundstage, then the issue may not be the amp. Play around with speaker placement and angle. However, if you really want to try something new, the Coda CSIB is worth a look. It can definitely power your speakers and will deliver a great soundstage. 

I have the Moon 700i, you find them often at around 6k USD. Best amp I ever had, including pre+power combo from Allnic, Air Tight and Leben I used to have in the past. 

I don’t know the 340i, but the 600i and 700i are among the very best there is in terms of imaging and soundstage, excluding uber-high end gear. I had the Gryphon Diablo 300 and the Vitus RI-101 at my place on loan. The Vitus is clearly sounding a notch below the Gryphon and Moon. The Gryphon is in the same league and has a lot of strengths, but for the classical music I listen to mainly, the Moon’s lifelike transparency and delicacy just made the choice for me. But the Gryphon is a terrific amp, have a listen to it. 
 

Also, the reason why you can see the 600i v2 in the aftermarket is because Simaudio offers a full-money back policy if you upgrade within the first 12 months after purchase and 75% within 2 years. The previous owner of my amp went up the ladder to the pre+power solution from Moon. If you’re looking for their top separates, you will see much less second hand gear, because people stick to it.

my two cents

@winoguy17 + 1.  I had the 340i with many SF speakers, Olympica 1, Nova4 and Maxima Amators and no problems, sounded fantastic. Think the OP has the UG Itch. So glad to be where I am today. Hope you find it one day OP. 

It looks to me you are setting up to simply swap sideways. This usually means disappointment, swapping one set of strengths and weaknesses for another.

I have am very familiar with Sonus Faber Speakers and at least similar models of SIM and Luxman. Luxman will have good imaging… but it is not very musical.

If you want to plunk down your new box and think, “wow, now that sooo much sounds better in all respects”. I recommend saving up and having a good look at the Pass INT60. This is a huge step up from the SIM or Luxman. It has better midrange bloom and it has amazing rhythm and pace (musicality).. also there will be no question of power. This unit has real drive.

‘’I would take your time and save up, and buy at the next level up. Most major high end audio companies have a unit in the $10K range, and these are in a whole different category of sound.

Looking at your avatar you need a lot of help with setup and room treatments. 

@dman1974 

"Maybe if you don’t have anything to add to this maybe go find another chat where you can insult people and exercise your audiophile superiority on someone else. "

I don't understand how you interpreted such a seemingly good-hearted jibe as a personal attack on your character, but you aren't the victim here.

 Uncalled for OP....

@tony1954

I don’t understand how you interpreted such a seemingly good-hearted jibe as a personal attack on your character

+1. Seems an over reaction. Admittedly, people do infer things differently.

Charles

I like Moon products- I agree with some of @ghdprentice  comments that you may want a bigger jump. 
 

The 340i is a great value for the dollar and the 600i is wonderful sounding but not sure if it’s just an incremental versus step change. I don’t think there’s a better solution of an integrated amp from Pass at the price point for the 600i but that’s merely my opinion…

I think you might be better served exploring an amp and using the 340i as a preamp. The option I’d test is the new Audio Research integrated. Tube is different and ARC is very dynamic and excellent sound stage

@jeffstrick 

Hi Jeff, what would be your recommendation for scaling up the sound stage? I’d be interested to hear your advice.

@winoguy17 

I do believe the room is a limiting factor, yes. But since I can’t change that what would be another way? I’m pretty sure even in the perfect room that one set up over another could sound bigger or smaller, deeper ect. 
 

I’ve also heard this set up in a friend’s place and then with 10 k pre amplifier and the difference is noticeable. So noticeable that it’s hard to unhear. I’m not saying I’m in the market for a 20 k upgrade here but there has to be an integrated amp that’s capable to produce a bigger sound stage.

@ghdprentice 

Thats pretty insightful and refreshing.

You are probably right, significant spend to get to the next level. I considered the INT 25 but that might also be a sideways move.

@overthemoon 

It’s actually incredible how much value is in this 340. I do agree the 600 is better but only marginal but and big jump in price. I have a friend with some Audio Research gear so maybe it’s time to beg him to bring over for a demo. I’ve heard great things about pairing Audio Research with Sonus Faber.

I’m considering upgrading my M400 amplifiers to the 860av2 and frankly it’s because of the upgrade program. 

I have Moon and Sonus faber and if cost was no object it would be ARC. 

The tool at GIK acoustics, Set up tutorials at Cardas http://www.cardas.com/system-setup and YouTube is your friend. 
 

Also cover that TV with a blanket.  I am staying clear of you and this site after this incident. 
 

@jeffstrick 

Hi Jeff, I do cover the screen for listing sessions. I also have a panel on the back wall to absorb bass buildup. What other suggestions other than YouTube do you have? Thanks

I gave you a link to Cardas that has additional links to GIK and has a tool for calculations. Not seeing your entire room I have no idea. Also you should have defuses on the front wall and bass traps in the corners. Go to those websites you have much to learn.

@jeffstrick

Hi Jeff, thanks again for sharing your infinite wisdom. This room is shared with my family so putting a diffuser on the front wall is not an option. I’ve also had extensive conversations with Vicoustics over the weekend at the Montreal show. Their expert recommendations actual are quite different than yours. They claim that high frequency is most affected by the first reflection, side wall which affects sound stage width. They also believe that only mid to low frequency hits the front wall’s behind the speakers. But must be they don’t have any idea. You are correct, I do have a lot to learn and that’s what I believe this is about, sharing knowledge. I hope I always have a lot to learn because that’s half the fun!!

@overthemoon 

There seems to be a lot of love for the Audio Research by Sonus Faber owners. I’m wondering if that will be my next move. Maybe Tube integrated. 

Try Rega Aethos?

Yes, it exists.

it’s called the Linear Tube Audio Z40+

https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/z40-integrated-amplifier

I had the 340i with my original SF Concerto. I never felt that it lacked sound stage and absolutely loved that amp.

However, when I upgraded to the 700i everything improved radically (as you would hope and expect.

I did hear to 600i in a demo recently and did not feel that it was hugely lacking compared to the 700 (perhaps a little less of everything) ... I doubt that you would have any issues if you upgraded to same, especially as they are available on the DH market die to Moon’s generous upgrade policy.

😥

Being somewhat new to this “sport” (2years) I started with a McIntosh MA5300 integrated and own the Sonus Faber Minima Amators along with the Heritage Specials.  I then upgraded to the MA 8950 integrated, a pretty big set in $. I was always curious about simaudio but bought Mac as a “safe” investment.  
Can anyone tell me the difference I might hear between the Sim product and the Mac product?   Thanks and apologies for asking this question kinda off topic. 

jeffstrick,  no good deed goes unpunished..... fwiw, I don't get it either....

Norma Audio IPA-140. 

@dayglow The Norma IPA-140 is a very nice piece of equipment. Would be an upgrade from the Simaudio. But the OP may be happier with tubes or not. 

One more shot, trying to help: OP try reading a few of these articles. You claim you want to learn. 

Pages and pages of great information if you truly thirst for audio knowledge. 

If not just have it deleted. 

Room Acoustics - Audiophile Review

The OP is a sausage eh. 

I started with the Moon ACE, then upgraded to the 340i/280D combo.  It was an improvement over the ACE.  Then I demo'd the 700i v2 and it was even better!  It's difficult to imagine how much better until you hear it.  So much so I traded up the 340i for the 700i v2 and the 280D for the 780D.  If you like the idea and convenience of an integrated the 700i v2 is a great way to go and it sounds better,  I'm told as I didn't compare them personally, than the 600i v2.  You also get more power.  Coincidentally, both are available used on The Music Room site at a fraction the cost of new.  

I've read the posts and those who have owned 340i and I agree there may be other things to consider: setting your speakersroom and cables.  I have KEF Reference One Metas and they image quite well.  Previously with the ACE and 340i, I had the LS50 Black Edition (non-Meta) on the KEF S2 stands and they also imaged incredibly well.

I hope you're able to gleen some benefit from my ramblings here and I wish you the best in your pursuit--this hobby is like an diving into a fractal.

@ John 1629 - I have had the i-3 in my office system for 7 years.  Last year, I had a desire for a Mac integrated and bought a used MA5200.  The blue lights were mesmerizing for about a month and then I ended up turning them off  :-)  That aside, speaking sonically, I couldn't tell the difference between the two 100 WPC integrateds.  I ended up selling the Mac.  It wasn't bad, I just put the $3,500 to better use.

I recently purchased an Simaudio I-3 to put against my audio refinement (yba) separates in my main system with ProAc Studio 148s and a modified RP6.  The room has various rugs and some basic foam bass traps plus the primary reflections are mostly eliminated as there are only partial side walls on each side given the room design.  The I-3 was quite good but could not keep up with my separates downstairs but I almost kept it for my bedroom system upstairs.

Have any people compared the 340i to audio refinement separates with similar proac or other slim towers with bloomy mids and silk dome tweeter plus the very flexible and room friendly downward firing bass port?  I have been considering consolidating my DAC, preamp and amp separates downstairs and it sounds like the 340i is a good one to try.  The only downside is that the ProAcs and / or my room has a slight treble tilt upwards and I use an EQ to address that at the higher ranges between the preamp and amp.  Unfortunately, the 340i does not have a tape or EQ loop and I don't think it has any tone controls.  Taming a room is definitely one of the most important steps in your audio adventure.

@john1629 I have owned both and have enjoyed each immensely.  Each has a 'house sound'. 

• McIntosh makes awesome looking and sound stuff; however, I have found theirs a beautiful 'veil' over the music. 
• Moon is very dynamic and transparent and I found this awesome.  

In my opinion you could be happy with either - listen to them because it's your ears that matter.

Sugden A21 se signature, super wide Soundstage, although the Tannoys also have a super wide Soundstage, so could be the combo.

Used kwi 200 comes up every so often...i was in market for new int after having nice 5.3 int.I was looking at pass int 60,hegel,sim 600i.I went with dans unit after some long talks with him about my intentions and what i could expect.

still in my system and im sure one of those other units are great as well.Dans local as well.