Should people with no turntable or reel to reel be considered audiophiles?
Dear @looscannon : I do not post that neurons are onn/off. This characteristic comes by the different electric discrete impulses. """ Neurons communicate with each other through electrical and chemical signals,” explains Barak. “The electrical signal, or action potential, runs from the cell body area to the axon terminals, through a thin fiber called axon................. The electrical signal that runs along the axon is based on ion movement. The speed of the signal transmission is influenced by an insulating layer called myelin,” ...... “Myelin’s main purpose is to insulate the neuron’s axon,” ..... “It speeds up conductivity and the transmission of electrical impulses. Myelin promotes fast transmission of electrical signals mainly by affecting two factors: 1) increasing electrical resistance, or reducing leakage of the electrical signal and ions along the axon, “trapping” them inside the axon and 2) decreasing membrane capacitance by increasing the distance between conducting materials inside the axon (intracellular fluids) and outside of it (extracellular fluids).” ........................................................................................................ Lord Adrian Nobel Prize 1932. """ What Adrian saw was that the response was a series of voltage pulses, each about one millisecond long, all of the same amplitude in a given fiber. Decades later, the development of microelectrodes enabled confirmation of Adrian’s discovery in neurons in the brain. This provided evidence of the basic similarity and difference between brains and the later development of computers. Both computers and brains convert the real world into representations. In computers, information is coded, in the form of 1s and 0s, and as nerve impulses in brains. Both computers and brains distribute and process this represented information, and can store it as memories. However, because brains are biological and use impulses to represent information, they can change their circuitry and can self-program. Unlike computers, brains also have will, including a likely degree of free will. """ ........................................................................................................................ “This study advances our understanding of how the brain reads a code made of identical electrical impulses, in order to produce a coherent perception of the world,” .................................................................................................
An electrical impulse is generated when a stimulus (such as sensory input) causes a rapid change in electrical charge in one part of a neuron’s membrane. This electrical impulse is one unit of neural information. An electrical impulse flowing along the length of a neuron is called a nerve impulse. Nerve impulses proceed in just one direction within a neuron—from the dendrites, through the cell body and axon, to the axon terminals (Figure 4). In addition, neurons produce nerve impulses in an all-or-nothing way.
A single neuron fires off a jolt of electricity in response to a very specific trigger. Scientists call each jolt an action potential. For instance, some nerve cells involved in vision fire only when the human eye sees certain colors ( all or nothing. ). Others fire when the eye detects basic shapes, or the edges of objects. .................................................................... To many information in the subject. Extremely interesting and as I read more I understand the less. Btw, @sokogear you only can listen digital. What you say " real " no one can listen it: remember your ADC in your inner ears? Your one and another posts makes no sense or your brain came from a cemetery. R. |
sokogear OP Now we have a physics discussion....I thought photons are light. I studied engineering with only a years worth of physics.... >>>>Visible light is photons. But all types of photons are not all visible light. Lots of other things are photons too, many have higher energies, some have lower energies. Everything in the electromagnetic spectrum is composed of photons. Radio waves, X-rays, gamma rays, infrared light, ultraviolet light, Schumann waves, extremely low frequency ELF, things of that nature. Visible light is a very small part of the electromagnetic spectrum. |
EEG (Electroencephalogram) shows up as wavy (I.e., continuous) lines. """Close, partially correct, not complete. It is electrical activity that is picked up. Electrical activity of many cells at any given point in time. In practice, at that any given point in time there will be some (many) that are firing so the net-signal picked will appear continuous regardless of the way each individual cell is doing it (continuous/intermittent). Also, thanks to advances in digital storage, does anyone still use printers for EEG? It is so 1980s. |
looscannon Rauliruegas, I believe animal central nervous systems are analog computers. A neuron is not on or off. It can secret various amounts of neurotransmitter bases on how much it is stimulated by other neurons. This process is frighteningly slow. Electrons travel at the speed of light. Nerves conduct via charged molecules at 300 ft/sec. >>>>As fate would have it only photons can travel at the speed of light. Electrons generally travel at a snails 🐌 pace. |
Rauliruegas, I believe animal central nervous systems are analog computers. A neuron is not on or off. It can secret various amounts of neurotransmitter bases on how much it is stimulated by other neurons. This process is frighteningly slow. Electrons travel at the speed of light. Nerves conduct via charged molecules at 300 ft/sec. I'm also afraid that many people produce and love distortion. Do you listen to Jimi Hendrix? Some manufacturers also add distortion to their electronics to get a certain sound. So, I would say "Enjoy the Music Distortion and all!" |
rauliruegas Dear @geoffkait : """ EEG (Electroencephalogram) shows up as wavy (I.e., continuous) lines. """ that’s because is the only way the printer works. >>>>The ones at NASA didn’t work like that. Ham gravy ain’t wavy. 😬 |
Dear @geoffkait : """
EEG (Electroencephalogram) shows up as wavy (I.e., continuous) lines. """ that's because is the only way the printer works. The EEG analysis try to measure the brain/neurones electrical activity. It does not measures the barin chemical/neurotransmitter activity. So, the study is taking the neuronal discrete impulses that are developed at high velocities as hundreds between two " points " eacg second time. Maybe each impulse distance with the next one could be of ansgtons and the printer can't print it. Btw, the research on MIT states that those kind of impulses are not all the same kind and has a binary characteristic/condition: onn/off, this is what we can read down there. That's why in our inner ears we have that ADC mechanism: is the only way we can listen any kind of sound. We can't listen in the analog dominium ( that's unknowed by the human been. ) but binary one. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
rauliruegas, I felt it should be listed with those articles (or online videos) we feel might genuinely advance our collective knowledge. It was a little depressing to read about the irreversible hearing damage that happens with misuse and with time. Plus all of the recalibration our hearing systems have to perform as a result, or the effects of volume on perceived frequency response. I remember the old stories of New York police putting bullets in their ears to drown out the hysterical (100dB+) screams from the fans at the Beatles concerts! We should always take maximum care of our hearing. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/articles-you-feel-should-be-shared |
Excellent example of stove piping, not paying attention to what others are doing or ignoring the advancements by others.You must be a farseeing seer to know what I study and read, and what I tried to improve, inspired by others....Or …. And by the way, Sir, I cannot report anything except my own experiments.....And some of these by the way confirm some of yours, like you already know, then what is your motives for this post? To piss me off? Sorry, it does not work.... :) Like I already argued about when I was 7 years old, my little pipe has the same size than your’s..... By the way the history has proven a long time ago that accusers blame others for the sin they suffer themselves.... |
looscannon1 posts06-18-2020 4:18amAbsolutely not. Audiophiles are gadget freaks. The turntable is the ultimate gadget surpassed only by the automobile. Then you ain't seen one of my rigs. Ever see the movie Frankenstein, or The kids show Voltron.. ok were getting close...Now throw in a little H.G. Wells "The time machine", we got it... Underground, above ground, and grounded. LOL Regards... |
mahgister We must discuss things that matters, except for personal preference and anecdotal subjectives histories, always interesting for sure, but without consequences for our own history most of the times; I think that, for me personally, the embeddings of any audio system are of the utmost importance for the experience, even more important than technological engineering details and design.... Why ? >>>>>Excellent example of stove piping, not paying attention to what others are doing or ignoring the advancements by others. Stove piping of information and systems 🏭 produces smokestacks of information growing to the sky but no way to verify or validate each person’s unique information since there’s no interaction with the outside world or cross pollination 🐝 Thus, people are inclined to believe IMPLICITLY in their own handiwork and dismiss the handiwork of others. Also know as the Not invented Here Syndrome. That’s why intelligence networks require multiple sources, to avoid stove piping. 🏭 There’s a fog upon L.A. And my friends have lost their way We'll be over soon they said Now they've lost themselves instead Please don't be long Please don't you be very long Please don't be long Or I may be asleep |
rauliruegas " I guess my brain is continuous.. " Yes because your knowledge level is extremely low about. As always you are wrong and I can’t understand how you can improve a little on that knowledge extremely low levels you have. R. >>>>Knowledge is what’s left over after you subtract out everything you forgot from school which was probably no great shakes anyway. He not busy being born is busy dying. - Bob Dylan |
looscannon Absolutely not. Audiophiles are gadget freaks. The turntable is the ultimate gadget surpassed only by the automobile. >>>>>You obviously never got into the whole CD tweaking craze. |
glupson "Perhaps the brain activity of someone who listens to a lot of digital music would show up as a series of blocks on the EEG graph."Perhaps it would be a lots of jitter. Wait, it already looks like jitter. Nevermind, it was jitterkait’s EEG. What a dumfukker! 🤗 |
What a stupid post anyway inferring that people that listen to digital aren’t audiophiles. I was once digital only for a few years and was just as much of an audiophile then as I am now. Yes and that is the thing about audiophiles. Most people think it means likes to listen to music. But it can also mean likes to listen to digital. |
| Post removed |
This is an email I just replied to a friend of mine about this: Just for reference I’m vinyl only now. @andera Yes. I know it got really strange. That’s why I recommended to only read the first page. This is the analog forum and you can see a bias towards analog but no definite side against digital. Once the post started to get popular it attracted the wackos. What a stupid post anyway inferring that people that listen to digital aren’t audiophiles. I was once digital only for a few years and was just as much of an audiophile then as I am now. |
Considering many of us went on hiatus in the 80s-90s with our turntables. CDs filled the void and now digital media If I could afford to live in Manhattan, I couldn’t afford to have all my lps and gear with me DAP, Tube headphone amp, headphones we should be inclusive to those wanted to hear more realism in music |
@geoffkait : Brain activity uses electric discrete impulses that inside the same brain are transformed. MIT made an in deep research/studies on that critical subject but we have to be a neurology(physician to really understand the whole and extremely complex brain behavior. The brain is a real " strange " even for scientifics whom says that only know around the 17% of its full operation. Go figure ! R. |
People mix the brain global activity with readings on one level with one set of measuring apparatus and improvise themselves neurologist .... I will not go with the qualia problem here for sure.... Good luck for explaining EEG here Geoffkait... The brain is not consciousness and dont generate it, and the brain is not analog or digital only, the brain present some characteristics of these 2 without being any of these 2... « My brain is a fractal antenna» -Groucho Marx «It is only microtubules, idiot» Harpo Marx |
Dear @cd318 : Exist a lot of imnformation over the internet in the same subject. Human been has a digital brain that's why the ADC in our inner ears and those electric impulses for comunication inside the brain and all over the body along chemical substances/neurotransmitters. Btw, in what thread do you posted the link? R. |
We must discuss things that matters, except for personal preference and anecdotal subjectives histories, always interesting for sure, but without consequences for our own history most of the times; I think that, for me personally, the embeddings of any audio system are of the utmost importance for the experience, even more important than technological engineering details and design.... Why ? Because be it for my actual vintage s.s. Sansui amplifier, or for my future ZOTL dreamed Berning tubes amplifier, a contemporary technology, the embeddings are the most important factors for using any of the 2 at their optimal potential in the best environment, never mind their technological particular design....The same thing is true for speakers and dac or turntables.....Even for headphones but in a lesser way.... Vibrations-resonance controls, electrical house grid controls, and acoustical controls, are the 3 key factors for any gear of any design.... |
I think it boils down to my stuff, is better than that stuff.... Whatever that stuff might be...It may be your stuff, my old stuff, or somebody else’s stuff. It could be NEW stuff, or even different stuff, ay? Music, no ears required. It should be AUDIO-AGAPE it’s not conditional. Just the love and pursuit of music, not more, not less. The word phile is from the word Philo, meaning to excite, passion, infatuation, a type of love. When adding anything to "what it means to be an audiofiler", it no longer carries the same meaning... Sound lover.. got it.. Not Turntable, and certainly not Reel to Reel... I think less than 1% on these forums even know what one looks like. Much less how expensive it is to run that stuff, talk about old hat... I still have a few reels around.. Most any CD will out do mine. It’s old stuff... You don’t join the club, you ARE the club....Your own little "CLUB" Heck you can even have your own uniforms. Me I just wear a HAT.. That’s it just a hat.... I was wondering why the chickens quit laying eggs.. Vet told me I had to wear clothes, I was scarin’ the HELL out of the chickens.. The Rooster, was a little envious too. Sorry Bud...(that’s the rooster’s name) Regards |
You will find @mahgister , that I will never fault anyone for their personal preference w.r.t. audio.I dont doubt that for sure... And I am perfectly ok with your last post.... I dont judge vinyl nor digital users because of the relative incomparability of each rung on the Price/S.Q. ratio in play.... And also because of the refine technology we can use in the vinyl and in the digital case... I myself use files most of the times and cd....For storage facility and for the high quality made possible by technology.... My regards to you.... |
recluse, Be careful friend, these vinyl / CD wars have disturbed many an audiophile's peace of mind for decades. Probably even older than the ongoing pernicious sapping cable debates, but certainly younger than the almost timeless solid state v tube arguments which seem to have reached a somewhat uneasy detente between the opposing camps. Admittedly this analogue/digital debate, for that's what it is, cannot be compared to, or put in the same league as the infamous “Father, Son and Holy Ghost” conundrum which befuddled many a christian for centuries, but it still comes with a certain risk. I've witnessed this war from it's beginning, slightly preceding the actual arrival of the upstart Compact Disc. Hostilities escalated immediately. Subsequent decades have seen both camps arguing tirelessly the perceived defects of the other with no quarter given, and not much taken. A certain Michael Fremer could be said to be the figurehead for the vinyl camp whilst the digital camp seems to lack a direct counterpart, although it's not short of advocates of course. These objectivist/ subjectivist debates operate somewhere outside both the parameters of logic or of measurement. They can be safely classed as arguments personal experience and faith. If you will permit me a small confession, I will admit to have been both sides of the argument at one time or another. I found peace of mind and reconciliation eventually by accepting that whilst analogue is often superior in practice, it's digital that's superior in principle. That seems to keep both sides happy and persuaded enough not to attempt to flame me at the stake as a heretic. But not always. In any case my trouble is nothing. You should have seen the grief Peter Aczel used to get a few decades back. No one is immune in these divisive times. Even an esteemed figure such as Harbeth's Alan Shaw is regularly mocked and threatened with the online inquisition. Things can get very nasty indeed. Stay safe my friend. |
You will find @mahgister , that I will never fault anyone for their personal preference w.r.t. audio. If you prefer the sound of vinyl, I will not fault that choice, and in my writing you will note that I do not. However, if you start spewing about the "superiority" of vinyl, especially it being "technically" superior, then yes, I will call out that falsehood ... but I may even note that the analog signal processing of "vinyl" may either simulate an environment that is pleasing and/or allow the ears/brain to extract something in the recording dependent on the playback environment. You know what is funny to me @mahgister, is that some audiophiles rate sources on this scale from worst to best: Digital (any digital), Vinyl, high quality Analog Tape. One of these does not belong, and it is not digital, it is vinyl. High quality analog tape sound very similar to high quality digital, and if not for the slight hiss of analog tape, it would be hard to tell the difference most of the time. Vinyl on the other hand, due to that "analog processing", is a much different beast. |
"Digital is the heroin substitute, when you can’t get the real thing. Your dealer is in quarantine or whatever. 🤗"For whatever reason, I noticed that news about some drug busts often mention "digital scale". That much about above analogy. Wait, did I just say "analog"? "...a search of his home uncovered yet more of the drug, and digital scales..." https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18522682.whitehaven-heroin-dealer-said-600-stash-get-lockdown/ |
Maybe we should go with the traditional definition of "audiophile" as one who pursues accuracy in audio reproduction (not their own personal taste, but accuracy), in which case, no one two talks about vinyl "perfection" would be included.I dont want to discuss anymore the original question of the OP because this question dont make much sense for me... This thing said, what is your definition of accuracy? Accuracy relative to a measuring apparatus or to the subjective hearing history experience of listeners? Dont answer I guess what you will say.....You already wrote it for sure....But who want to exclude a vinyl afficionado of an audiophile club? Nobody for sure..... :) When I make my choice about gear I look for the numbers and accuracy, and impedance compatibility etc...But at the end like any music listener I vouch for my ears judgement with or without numbers accuracy and I vouch for my medium of choice, be it vinyl or digital .... «I never choosen my wives for their relative accuracy compared with the golden ratio» -Groucho Marx « Perfect accuracy is not music» -Harpo Marx |
if you’re one of those who enjoys the sound of digital more power to you. If you’re just a listener and not an enjoyer I will let you off the hook. Analog is the heroin. Digital is the heroin substitute, when you can’t get the real thing. You know, when your dealer is in quarantine or whatever. 🤗 Enjoy the music substitute! 😬 |
