Should I upgrade the cable of my Line Conditioner?

Hopefully the final stage is a large inductor that works as a power reserve for the amp.  But I don't have a conditioner.

How does a large inductor provide a reserve?

Just got my new Ayon audio integrated amplifier last night after a 3 week trip to California from Europe.  Reading through the manual I noticed this warning:

"!!!  It is recommended that you do not use a power conditioner etc as it may be limit [sic] the current available to the amplifier."

I've posted my opinion on this many times and it is very similar to what the manual says.  So if you insist on using a power conditioner, make sure that it is oversized.   Because the current spikes that an amp needs to produce good base are not accounted for in the specification number that tells you the average power consumption.  I would want at least a factor of 3-5, preferably 10.  

So I would want a 10 ga power cord on my conditioner, a 10ga cord going to the amp to the conditioner, and similar wiring throughout the conditioner.  Hopefully the final stage is a large inductor that works as a power reserve for the amp.  But I don't have a conditioner.

Jerry

@audphile1 

I was just curious if it's necessary to use an upgraded power cord for the line conditioner.   Since the job of the line conditioner is to supposedly generate 'clean' power,  why bother using an expensive power cord to feed it 'dirty' power.   That is my thinking, and that is why I posted this discussion.

Just like many other topics in this forum,  there are different opinions around this topic, so I guess I would have to try it and find out myself.   I was hoping not to spend the money if I don't need to.

BTW.  I posted this question to Furman support, and never heard back.  Oh well.

@xcool 

I found in my system power cords used on power conditioner make a difference. What difference are you looking to make, what exactly are you trying to improve?

Type of power cord and type of design, conductors and connectors all matter. 
So what’s the objective?

Over the last 30 years I have experimented with all sorts of power cables.

1. their impact on sound quality in terms of transparency and attack is significant.

2. Their performance can be significantly enhanced by using contact enhancers from e.g. Caig, Acoustic Revive or Mad Scientist Audio

3. In highly resolving systems solid core OCC cables tend to outperform Litz- based cables, particulary on leading edge and reverb. My favorite here are the Acoustic Revive and upper end Nordost cables.

4. Before overspending on power cables I would focus on having a dedicated spur with good power points such as Furutech, Acoustic Revive.

Enjoy the music

OP, after rereading the string I remember it. I have a terrible memory for names, and none for user IDs. Congratulations on the Cary. Hope you do a great summary like you did with your cable experience. That kind of thing helps everyone.

@williewonka, thanks for the recommendation on Zavfino.  Will definitely check it out.

@ghdprentice, you are correct that I'm actually pretty happy with my current system.  In fact I recently upgraded a couple of IC and they have made a huge difference.  Do you remember your participation in this thread that I started a couple of months ago?

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/which-interconnect-cable-to-upgrade-first  

Also, thanks to your suggestion on tube amps on that thread, I had decided to do some research, and just placed an order on a Cary SLP-05 tube preamp at a pretty good sales price.   Now I can't wait to listen to it.  

@mike_in_nc,  thanks for your thoughtful comment.  Like I mentioned in my previous post,  upgrading power cords in my system does not seem to make much of a sound improvement so far.  That's why I was curious if upgrading the power cord of my line conditioner will make a difference.

@xcool --

I was told that the manufacturer only supplies a power cord that is good enough to get you started until you can save enough money to buy a better power cord. Does this not hold true for the original cord that goes in the power conditioner?

If you think what you were told is undeniably correct, you probably will hear an improvement with a new power cord. But please consider the value of spending money on a dubious proposition that may cause at most a marginal difference. Would that money be better spent on acoustic treatments? On a Qobuz subscription? On a measurement mic to help optimize speaker and listener position? On a pair of concert tickets or flowers for your SO? The decision, of course, is yours to make. After trying many, I am dubious that cables are an important place to sink one’s hard-earned money.

P.S. You might find this essay (with measurements) interesting.

OP, what is your system? Power cords and interconnects can make a big and obvious difference.. but it is dependent on your system and your objectives.

Perhaps (it sounds like this) you are largely happy with your system and just don’t want to feel like you missed something. That is fine… I’m not sure if I were you I would do anything. If you really want to get the very best sound (assuming you have pretty good equipment), then you have to be prepared to work for it. Like do some reading and rent a couple sets of high end cords from the Cable Store. Then do thoughtful comparisons. If you try some really high end stuff… even if you don’t want to buy it, the experience can tell you what you can get out of doing it…. a tiny change, or huge. You can direct your further work from their. Typically I would start with speaker cables and interconnects… but they all can make a difference.

If this doesn’t appeal to you, the buy a budget cord an feel good that you covered your bases.. or don’t and feel good that you didn’t waste the money.

If you live in a multi family building, I would guess you can be certain you do not have good clean power. All the appliances and stuff in the building conspires to mess it up.

@xcool - I build my own high perofrmance DIY cables, so I have made all cables from the outlet to each component.

In my case I have the following cables from the wall outlet to the components

• an 11 foot Extension cable with a dual socket outlet
• I plug the amp directly into one of those sockets
• I plug a 6 outlet Power Distribution box into the other socket of the extension cable
• Into the Distribution box I plug my source components i.e.
  • a phono stage and
  • a Streamer.

So the power for each of the source components arrives through 3 seperate power cables and one power distribution center.

I have upgraded the cables and Distribution box many times and each time performance has noticeably improved.

But If a lower quality power cable is substituted for any of my cables then performance will suffer.

So to answer your ogirinal question - YES a good power cable on your conditioner will make a difference

• i.e. provided - the other power cables being used are capable of performing to a similar level.

The Pangea power cables are better than stock cables,

• but they would not perform to the same level as the Zavfino cables I mentioned in my post above.
• So using just one Zavfino cables to connect to your conditioner - you might not notice too much difference.
• Getting a Second Zavfino cable would allow you to use on your amp or source component would allow you to hear the improvement

Sorry for the long post - but as you can see, the question does not have a simple YES or NO answer

Again - take a look at Zavfino - they are the best bang for the buck out there because they use UP-OCC copper and advance cable geometries to boost performance

https://zavfinousa.com/collections/power-cables

Fina OCC Power Cable 14AWG - ZavfinoUSA

Take a look at this link to read what others think of them

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/zavfino

Regards - Steve

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments so far.    I do use 3rd party power cords for all my components.  They are not expensive ones.   They are mostly Pangea power cords.   I'm not so sure if they are good power cords, but they give me peace of mind.   I think the Pangea cables are very much over promoted by Audio Advisor.  I've tried their IC, and they are just so so.

Anyway in general,  power cord is one area of my system that I haven't found big impact on my sound.   I wonder if it's because the Pangea cords are simply not up to snuff, or I just have very clean power from my electrical outlet.  I live in a high rise apartment building that's a little less than 20 years old.

My original question is about whether the line conditioner itself should use a better quality power cord than the stock one.   Seems like there are definitely many different opinions on this.   I was hoping not having to spend the money if I don't need to, but I guess I would have to try it out for myself.

Thanks.   Feel feel to suggest a few best bang for the buck power cords that I should consider!

Great question. Yes it depends. If you have no extra high end power cords around… well, you probably will at some point. A waste of money? Probably, but over time it happens and it ends up being useful for experimentation.

One thing you can pretty much bet on is installing a couple direct lines for your system (one for most components and one for amp) will have a significant payback.  Might be a move to consider first.

@xcool - try a Zavfino UP-OCC power cable

• it will make a nice improvement in dynamic performance and imaging

Regards - Steve

ozzy +1 ... it made a significant difference for me when I used a BPT power conditioner, they actually offered a few different level connector cable options

Do you have an aftermarket cord that you can borrow from another component (one that you would not need to use)?

DeKay

Very important cable upgrade it asap.

I like my Furman. I say leave it alone.

it’s the internal capacitors that send the juice to your equipment. you can fill them with lousy juice, they will send exactly the same out.

I also use Furman Elite-15 Power Conditioners in my system. I did upgrade to better cords. For me, it made a nice difference. Although, for me - I would upgrade cords to my amp, pre-amp, CD transport and DAC first. Those had bigger bang-for-te-buck returns in my system.

Most likely would make an improvement as others have mentioned. Many times it depends upon your selection of power cords. How much ($) are you willing to spend, then perhaps you can get some suggestions.

Just replaced the wiring in my wall.  10ga to the service panel.  Recommend 10 ga power cords for amps.

I was told that the manufacturer only supplies a power cord that is good enough to get you started until you can save enough money to buy a better power cord. Does this not hold true for the original cord that goes in the power conditioner? Wouldn’t that be the original sin? Why don’t we need to replace the wiring inside the wall?

No. Furman supplies a suitable cable. Replacing it will be a waste of money.

I do not have much knowledge with electricity.

But I would use a power cord that gives a lot of rooms , for high power peak demand.

Such as for subwoofer , powerfull amplifiers , etc.

I use PS Audio Perfectwave AC 12 power cord. 8 gauge.

You may find more refined power cord , but I am sure that with a 8 gauge,

it will be enough.

My power conditionner has 8 outlets , fully used  with power amps ,subwoofers ,  for my Home Theater system.

There are a lot of companies that sell direct with generous trial periods and offer a lot of value for the money (Triode Wire Labs, Cullen, Morrow, etc.) so it’s easy to just try some for yourself.  The other option is to buy used and just re-sell if they don’t work for you.  I agree 100% with @ozzy that EVERYTHING matters so read reviews, pick a PC or two that provide the sound qualities you’re looking for, and go for it!  Best of luck. 

I have never tried the equipment you have, but generally everything matters in this crazy hobby. But it will only be as good as the weakest link.

In other words, perhaps try a better power cord but don't go overboard.

ozzy

You will have to experiment yourself. We will all have different opinions because gear and ears are all unique