Thanks for sharing the magic of your journey Master M...
The "whole" is greater than the sum of its parts.. Well done..
With great respect..
The "whole" is greater than the sum of its parts.. Well done..
With great respect..
Seeing sounds and music.....
Seeing music and sounds ...
Listening music and sound organized waves in your room may be translated in perceived geometrical and topological, fractal flowing of animated forms embodied in each microdynamic flowing note....In attentive focus but relax listening...Like a psycho- acoustical imaginary geometry....Like a " cartoon story" in your head....
Music here is no more only melody, rythm, harmonies, but also a potential "story" displayed in visible forms...It is the interface emerging/vanishing imaginary world between a sound and a musical note...
Synesthesia between sound and colors exist but also synesthesia could be between sound and forms...This specific synesthesia is probably more common and could be a great help in fine tuning a room with our ears....
Each series of notes is an history and a " being" with an expressive figure flowing, walking or swimming or flying in pure POTENTIAL meaning...
Pure POTENTIAL meaning being the dynamical interconnectedness of all the musical notes and the forms phenomena appearing to our eyes with it....
The sound not only convey POTENTIAL meaning though, but reflect also the way this meaning is communicated by pure acoustical 3-d incarnations of each sound reflecting itself the acoustical properties of your Speakers/room/ears...
POTENTIAL Meaning experienced is then perceived in a specific acoustical PERSPECTIVE and takes, related to your room geometry, topology, acoustical content, in furnitures and material treatment surfaces, but also experienced in the limits and the controlled way your system/speakers are WED to a room specifically designed for them by possible Helmholtz controls devices in my case or other possible acoustic devices....
Sound could be "seen" and must not be a surface ever, always a 3-d individualized body in space...It is the goal....
Anyway no sound comes from the speakers, save in a bad room... Sound is an expanding and rythmic sphere of living dynamic whose 2 centers are the speakers at one focus and yourself at the other focus....The 2 foci are interpenetrated rythmic beating hearts.... Because what belong to the specific characteristics of your speakers/system and what belong to your ears are coupled together.... This is my experience....
In this breathing ellipse, there, float like mobile islands on a sea, many pressures zones expressing and surging themselves in the encounter between speakers and ears/ room content and form....
This is my experience listening and seeing music....
How others perceive sound and music experience ?
This is why it is important to control in a relative way the acoustic of the room because the POTENTIAL meaning of the sound and music wedding, are often only a surface, or a distorted fraction of the potential acoustic perceived sphere in non controlled and non treated room INSTEAD of being a 3-D BEING....
Acoustic is the sleeping princess and all the pieces of gear are the 7 working dwarves... Be the prince and awake the princess...
I begin this thread for helping people to "IMAGINE" what could be musical/acoustic "ectasy" or "seeing"....
We always listen WITH our system THROUGH the controlled room/speakers the "recreated acoustic translation" of a past lived event which becme an ACTUAL different acoustical event ...
Most people think the opposite:
They think they listen WITH their uncontrolled room/speakers ,THROUGH their system the electronical "reproduction" of a lived PAST event....
Anyway there is no PERFECT FIDELITY between a lived event and a recorded one....The other complementary act of FIDELITY is in the way your speakers/room will translate and recreated some or all the choices which had taken place at the moment of the recorded event.... The recording information which is a surgical 2-d surface extract of the 3-d lived original lived event and the translation and recreation of it in your room in a 3-d Spheroid, is greatly determined by the relation between speakers/ears/room.... On par and sometimes more than by the choice of the gear itself...
Ok i am not a scientist at all....All my post is only " subjective impressions in me" linked to my material acoustical experiments journey...
I try to conveyed here my experience of the last 2 years in words....
You can speak to me about your experience and what you think...
Those whose brain cannot fathom " meaning" and are ideologically deaf could remain silent....
Listening music and sound organized waves in your room may be translated in perceived geometrical and topological, fractal flowing of animated forms embodied in each microdynamic flowing note....In attentive focus but relax listening...Like a psycho- acoustical imaginary geometry....Like a " cartoon story" in your head....
Music here is no more only melody, rythm, harmonies, but also a potential "story" displayed in visible forms...It is the interface emerging/vanishing imaginary world between a sound and a musical note...
Synesthesia between sound and colors exist but also synesthesia could be between sound and forms...This specific synesthesia is probably more common and could be a great help in fine tuning a room with our ears....
Each series of notes is an history and a " being" with an expressive figure flowing, walking or swimming or flying in pure POTENTIAL meaning...
Pure POTENTIAL meaning being the dynamical interconnectedness of all the musical notes and the forms phenomena appearing to our eyes with it....
The sound not only convey POTENTIAL meaning though, but reflect also the way this meaning is communicated by pure acoustical 3-d incarnations of each sound reflecting itself the acoustical properties of your Speakers/room/ears...
POTENTIAL Meaning experienced is then perceived in a specific acoustical PERSPECTIVE and takes, related to your room geometry, topology, acoustical content, in furnitures and material treatment surfaces, but also experienced in the limits and the controlled way your system/speakers are WED to a room specifically designed for them by possible Helmholtz controls devices in my case or other possible acoustic devices....
Sound could be "seen" and must not be a surface ever, always a 3-d individualized body in space...It is the goal....
Anyway no sound comes from the speakers, save in a bad room... Sound is an expanding and rythmic sphere of living dynamic whose 2 centers are the speakers at one focus and yourself at the other focus....The 2 foci are interpenetrated rythmic beating hearts.... Because what belong to the specific characteristics of your speakers/system and what belong to your ears are coupled together.... This is my experience....
In this breathing ellipse, there, float like mobile islands on a sea, many pressures zones expressing and surging themselves in the encounter between speakers and ears/ room content and form....
This is my experience listening and seeing music....
How others perceive sound and music experience ?
This is why it is important to control in a relative way the acoustic of the room because the POTENTIAL meaning of the sound and music wedding, are often only a surface, or a distorted fraction of the potential acoustic perceived sphere in non controlled and non treated room INSTEAD of being a 3-D BEING....
Acoustic is the sleeping princess and all the pieces of gear are the 7 working dwarves... Be the prince and awake the princess...
I begin this thread for helping people to "IMAGINE" what could be musical/acoustic "ectasy" or "seeing"....
We always listen WITH our system THROUGH the controlled room/speakers the "recreated acoustic translation" of a past lived event which becme an ACTUAL different acoustical event ...
Most people think the opposite:
They think they listen WITH their uncontrolled room/speakers ,THROUGH their system the electronical "reproduction" of a lived PAST event....
Anyway there is no PERFECT FIDELITY between a lived event and a recorded one....The other complementary act of FIDELITY is in the way your speakers/room will translate and recreated some or all the choices which had taken place at the moment of the recorded event.... The recording information which is a surgical 2-d surface extract of the 3-d lived original lived event and the translation and recreation of it in your room in a 3-d Spheroid, is greatly determined by the relation between speakers/ears/room.... On par and sometimes more than by the choice of the gear itself...
Ok i am not a scientist at all....All my post is only " subjective impressions in me" linked to my material acoustical experiments journey...
I try to conveyed here my experience of the last 2 years in words....
You can speak to me about your experience and what you think...
Those whose brain cannot fathom " meaning" and are ideologically deaf could remain silent....
56 responses Add your response
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Wow what are you talking about?"Seeing" sound and music in my imaginative perceptive landscape helped me a lot in my acoustical treatment and controls protocols and experiments, and make me conscious that this informative and also "imaginary" and complex visual "cues" comes from my own subjective ears/brain organization interacting continuously with the room complex grid of pressure zones.... ( i use imaginary like for the numbers and not only in the sense of something coming only from my imagination) I am not a scientist like i already said.... Only someone who think with sounds in my head/room....Like we may think with sounds speech.... My post are only here to create friendly discussion about our own experience each one of us with sound and music.... This video below about synesthesia between colors and notes can help to understand what i try to convey and speak about... In my case i associate sounds with fractal geometrical forms, not colors, animated dynamics movement like fractals, like on Chladni figures...Imagine 3-d Chaldni spheres evolving in all kind of ways in front of your eyes....... In the case of colors this musician link each note lineraly with exactly one color... In the case of my perceived animated forms, the correspondance is not between each note and a specific subjective color, but between a playing instrument timbre and the way this timbre interact with the room for my brain/ears....The way this timbre suddenly appear to my mind’s eye like a living moving emerging or dissipating form.... Synesthesia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obrBAysVef0&list=PLnQJF3Qi_4_A5BFgnV1w5wNNfnks3u0oL&index=24 Chladni figures: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLNFrxgMJ6E |
"Music here is no more only melody, rythm, harmonies, but also a potential "story" displayed in visible forms."The late Harry Person of TAS fame called it "The Holy Grail." It has to do with recreating the actual event either recorded live or in the studio. I first heard the phenomenon years ago at an audio show while visiting Randy Cooley’s "Optimal Enchantment" room. It was a Ravel trio recording, simply played, all laid out in three-dimensional relief. It was as though the performers were actually there with no speakers or electronics involved. I set that sound as the goal for my system. Fast forward to today ... On the best recordings, I’ve actually surpassed the sound I heard in Randy’s room. On a good night, with a great recording, the performance just unfolds before the listener with all veils having fallen away. Once this level of resolving sound reproduction has been attained, the hobby can be enjoyed on a completely different level. It is no longer about "sound," and becomes all about the event. Some of you may have Herbie Mann’s "Live At The Village Gate" recording. Or perhaps Cannonball Adderley’s "Know What I Mean." These recordings place you "right there." Good vocal recordings are the same way, placing the vocalist in front of you with such tactile presence, that it is as though you can reach out and touch them. They not only give sound, but they present the performer’s personality and dare I say it ... facial expressions. Good choral recordings have each voice delineated into individual performers. Instrumentals have each instrument separate from one another, and tonally correct. It has taken me years to develop a system that does all of the above, involving much trial and error. Most of the improvement has been through tweaking and NOT through upgrading speakers and/or electronics. Snake-oil, my ass. Frank |
Thanks for your experience.... Great post! I must add that my audio system/room does not gives me the best possible acoustical and musical performance possible for sure...And my system/room dont mimic and reproduce the original musical performance which has been recorded so much than it translate it in something that is not too far from the lived event but anyway which is different... I never listened anyway to a "perfect" reproduction of a lived event through the audio system/room i experienced in the past... Many if not most people here own a potential better system than mine ....But acoustic treatment and control could help a lot of us to be "satisfied" by our musical listening in spite of the limitations of our system.... It is my case.... |
mahgister ... Everything counts, as I'm sure you are aware. The three big areas to pay attention to are 1. Room acoustics. 2. Controlling micro-vibrations. 3. Cleaning up the AC power coming into the system. All three areas reduce extraneous noise that veils the sound. Those who haven't solved these three problem areas in their systems have no idea of what you and I speak. One thing I know for sure is that you and I are not alone here. We and others like us have learned what to listen FOR. Others are still struggling with their prejudices and their ignorance. Those who have not attained this level of sound reproduction have no clue, therefore, their conclusion is that it must all be "snake oil." They repeat it over and over, again and again, as though repetition deems truth. I always enjoy your enlightened posts ... Frank |
First off, I have very similar musical experiences… I think. I usually close my eyes and get taken off in a musical geometric light show that I see in my mind’s eye. It ebbs and flows with the music. It becomes an all encompassing experience… no drugs required. However, this is definitely not how everyone experiences music, at all. For instance, I have a very close friend of over fifty years… we experienced music together since we were 15. He thinks of himself as a musician… I am pretty sure he is imagining chord changes, wondering if it’s Martin D36, and in the acts of creating it. I don’t actually think he gets it… high end audio… although he has spent well over $40K… his system system sounds terrible. Good individual choices without a clue about system synergy… but that is another store. So, I believe there are lots of different modes of appreciation. But I like ours. |
I always thought seeing music was normal. To me music produces a field that I can “see” when I close my eyes. Different shapes, textures and colors. I know it sounds crazy and I don’t know how to explain it any better, but it’s been this way since I was a kid. My brother has synesthesia and sees color when he performs. |
However, this is definitely not how everyone experiences music, at all. For instance, I have a very close friend of over fifty years… we experienced music together since we were 15. He thinks of himself as a musician… I am pretty sure he is imagining chord changes, wondering if it’s Martin D36, and in the acts of creating it. I don’t actually think he gets it… high end audio… although he has spent well over $40K… his system system sounds terrible. Good individual choices without a clue about system synergy… but that is another store.Very interesting... The experience so different between you and your friend illustrate a distinction that i make : Music embodied in sounds is not the same perspective than sound embodied in musics....( Check my use of the singular and plural grammatical mode here to convey what i want to speak about) "Music embodied in sounds" is the way the notes of musical scores or of an improvisation are played and feeled and perceived to create a musical emotion in our soul/body.... "Sound embodied in the musics" is the acoustic information we can retrieve coming from the room/speakers and from the acoustic content of our room, through our perception of the playing orchestra or instruments sounds timbre and locations...Estimating for example what is left of the original lived event through the mixing and in spite of the recording choices, what is left to us in our listening room... Some people are more conscious of one over the other and some other of the 2 simulatenously... Certainly a maestro for example must be conscious of these 2 way on the same level.... |
I seldom imagine colors when listening. Instead I feel emotions. I feel adrenalin or soporifics...soporifics that can engender either balm or boredom. I fall in love. I shake in hate. I wallow in nostalgia. I re-live the past, whether that past be my own past or the historical past. I look forward to the future. I chuckle at idiocy, whether the idiocy stems from me or someone else. I get up and dance. |
I seldom imagine colors when listening. Instead I feel emotions. I feel adrenalin or soporifics...We all feel emotions with sound and music but we can also perceive specific acoustic information with sound and music... The well known case of echolocalisation by blind people for example...Daniel Kisch on youtube is an example... And the relation between emotions and information can be subjective or objective, objective like in the case of perfect pitch evaluation , or completely subjective like the associated specific colors attached to sound in synesthesia... And all the variation scale between these two.... The female violonist i speak about above with the youtube link about synesthesia own perfect pitch and "suffer" or "enjoy" synesthesia at the same time... |
Truly inspirational thread, Thank You! I've never expressed these experiences to my friends, I'm not sure they experience music on this level. I have never heard or read in this case, of people enjoying what is for me, the ultimate endpoint of musical enjoyment/interaction. For me, I feel this deeper, as someone above described, "visceral" experiencing of music, is a reconnecting to something we as a modern society seem to have lost; a connection to something ancient, from a time when the human race was not fixated on superficiality, and more the pursuit of inner enlightenment, and knowledge. To a time when, to quote a book, can't even remember what book it was, but this line has stuck in my head; "When we all lived in the forest, and nobody lived anywhere else...." Thanks again, this has made my day. Respect! |
At its best, music is a language. Proper reproduction of it makes it easier to understand & enjoy. Synesthesia has been described by both John McLaughlin and Robert Fripp, and experienced by composers Messiaen, Skryabin, and Liszt, along with others. Some say it is related to perfect pitch: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3596158/ |
Truly inspirational thread, Thank You! Thanks it is a great joy to be the origin of a small joy indeed.... |
At its best, music is a language.Your point about music being a language itself is deep and the fact that language is music itself go even deeper.... Thanks very much for this paper which confirm my experience and intuition.... Me deepest respect.... |
If you want to test your system.... The most spectacular and difficult piece of recording i have to test all aspects of sound including hearing from speakers a recording where the sound COME AROUND the listener and often BEHIND HIS BACK all that with a stereo system...Believe me or not...😁😊 Philip Glass : AKHNATON Here the great variety of sound timbres and frequencies, solo and choral voices with Wagnerian tuba and percussions... A great part of the sound fill my room with often voices not only BESIDE me at left or right, but voices and instruments behind my listening position at the direct opposite of the 2 speakers... A well done acoustical stereo room is almost quadraphonic in effects with some well recording piece in my experience.... This cd is impossible to beat for testing the presence of individual instruments and voices perfectly distinguished by their timbre in this enormous mass of musicians....The test for bass will be astoundingly good because of the timbre variety of the different instruments in the bass register... The best test for any system is timbre voice, because each human voice own an individuality unique to living system and gives a set of acoustical subtle acoustical cues impossible to hear with any instrument ... And a big mass of instruments or enormous chorals are very difficult to be and stay musically detailled and not mainly indistinct noises on less good system and no controlled room... This works is also an astounding piece of musical genius which i will resume in this description, which is exactly only that, a description in my words, the way the composer summarize all the history of music in his own way: You will "see" around you and not only hear, a huge cosmical and tellurically grounded Wagnerian and Scriabinian opera, transforming itself sometimes in a big orchestral Brucknerian symphony which at times become a beautiful complex Monteverdian madrigals set which hide the germs of sublime but ONLY emerging simple masterful counterpoints mantras like in Bach or Bruckner, that ends often in a powerful chord or a ceremony of drum rolls or an incantatory recitative like in shamanic ritual of the past mixed with pre-gregorian influences....Astoundingly deep, efficient, and beautiful musically... All musical genres fusionned here in a minimalist style in plain control, inspired by one of the master of the young Glass, the blind street musician classically educated Moon Dog, the so called Viking of the 50 th street at N.Y. friend of the young Glass and one of the creator of this "minimalist" style or at least a mentor of the young Glass.... No doubt here, Philip Glass is a great composer who will stay for the future history.... His Akhenaton is hypnotic at the highest level..... |
@mahgister I have never been exposed to ideas put forth by you and others. So I thanks you for making me aware of these things, even though I have never had such things For me, music has filled many needs over my lifetime. It has been a life long friend. it helped me in the lonely times when growing up as an only child. It helped me forget the weight of the problems I faced and still do face at times. It is one of the few places which I leave the cares of the world behind. I most often think about the beauty of the system. Not the stereo system but the system which holds everything together and how, despite overwhelming odds at times, I have always had everything I needed. I'm often reminded of how God Himself must love music. I say that because The Book of Psalms is the longest in the Bible and perhaps the easiest to find. It is right there in the middle of the Book. I've laughed at some of the lyrics in blues songs which convey terrible situations in such amusing light. Blues says, " life often sucks but we will go on". It’s the message of life itself. I've cried. at Mozart's Clarinet Concerto at my mother's death. I cried as much at the beauty of the music and an afterlife that she now enjoys as much as I cried at my loss. This is just a few examples of my emotion and the beauty which music brings and life situations it highlights. Music takes me away from a world which is often highlighted by man's cruel & inhumane treatment of his fellow man. A world which has lost its ability to live & let live & to agree to disagree. A world where you are seemingly forced to take a side because walking independently with your own thought gets you mocked and ridiculed by both sides As to colors and flowery psychedelic images have never seen this from music alone. |
Thanks for your beautifully written moving post artemus_5 By the way all of us are able to train our attention neuronal mechanism...We are all "golden ears" some had teach themselves a bit more, like Steve Kisch, thats all.... And listening is not about acuity or accuracy first and only , it is first about coordinating the 2 ears together and coordinating the visual and hearing system of the body /brain moving eyes or ears or his members body....Hearing become listening a conscious/subsoncious "yogic" activity of the focal and peripheral attention like in subtle breathing .... Acoustic complement music like the 2 brains hemispheres complement each other.... my deepest respects.... |
«Most of the possible are also a probable disposed all along in a perspective, the more meaningful probable though is the near impossible or the unexpected, the outcast from our own perspective»-Anomymus Smith Miracles and mysteries are everywhere to be seen like in acoustic and music , like in a garden or in a jungle, but man perceive only his own predictable circle of habits and call it "the world".... «Any natural law is the passive side of love»-an undiscovered teaching of an unknown disciple of Rumi «Miracles are nature habits not snake oil»-Groucho Marx 🤓 «Miracles are cheap medecine»-Harpo Marx «Did you not just sell us snake oil here?»-Gummo Marx |
I guess that I always thought everyone had this ability if they could only stop long enough to listen. Clearly a lot of people are unable to sit still long enough to have music become something other than background noise. Yes; I see shapes and forms, colors, strobes, pulses. Often I "see" the emotion as a shape and color; often these emotions at war with each other. I've often wondered if it was due to a higher degree of imagination. I have whole visual stories unfold before me taking me away to worlds unseen and unknown. One album that takes me on a fantastic journey is side two of Rush' Caress of Steel, one of their most underrated albums. In one passage I can almost feel the salt spray from waves as the ship is tossed about. Music! |
I guess that I always thought everyone had this ability if they could only stop long enough to listen. Clearly a lot of people are unable to sit still long enough to have music become something other than background noise.You describe perfectly my own experience also... Thanks for your illuminating post... The only difference is i use this "imaginative visual ability" or "illusion for some" to acoustically design my room.... Acoustic could be "seen", not only music could be seen....And when you "see" acoustic you learn that musical acoustic is not merely about 2 channel localisation of sound sources POINTS in the room merely, but essentially also "timbre" VOLUMES dynamical localisation in your head/room... A violin "object" is an abstraction, an imaginary POINT, localized in the acoustical space of the room it is an abstraction of the concrete "timbre" perceived VOLUME phenomenon ... The sounding object at the origin of the playing note is 3 dimensional concrete vibrating body , not a point waiting to be localized anymore, but a VOLUME ,"étalé" in french, or spread out dynamically like a fractal in musical space... This conflict and harmony between these point/volume localization is an aspect of acoustic and musical experience... An acoustic tone is not a musical note, and a timbre cannot be reduced to his spectrum....Anymore than a volume could be reduce to a point....But like in projective geometry there exist a correspondance between a point and a surface, each volume being the results of this interaction, "timbre" acoustical information volume contain also room acoustical information or environmental objects information and not only the playing note reduced to his own spectrum... By the way i speak about my living experience here, and nothing i say is science or scientific , they are only my way to convey in words and concepts my experience... Science ask for very precise psycho-acoustic experiments, some of which inspire me a lot....But what is "seen" by me is created by my own imagination and work only like a tool... Is it a deception ? I dont care because my seeing is an evolutive process in my own life history and give me ecstasy and a firm grip on my room acoustic .... My deepest respects.... |
This video about "cymatic" describe exactly some aspects of what i spoke about... Hans Jenny the cymatic creator was a disciple of the Goethe phenomenological approach in science and pupil of Rudolf Steiner... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3oItpVa9fs No need to have "sands" or water....Timbre perception play the role of sand.... The rythmic changes in the controlled pressure zones of a room using Helmholtz method to do it mechanically induce in my listening experiments the visualization of the TRADE-OFF between localisation and width of a "point-like" object or of the sounding resonant body of the violin for example and the spreaded out dynamical localisation of the "timbre" microdynamic related to this resonant body which is also a sound source with a variable dimension and location in the room which we can modify at will with the right acoustic control... Using material passive treatment in acoustic and active mechanical control will optimize this TRADE-OFF, between source width (ASW) and listener envelopment ( LEV) which is for me at the heart of small room acousttic... Yes it is a bit more complicated than looking only for a "stereo" image and localization left/right .... Most people dont understand acoustic....I struggle with it myself but i become able to know what it is about even if i dont undertand it all... By the way understanding for me is " seeing" first not applying a mathenatical formula only.... And even some educated one confuse timbre and spectrum..... We must meditate about this fact: no recording is able record the perfect original playing musical event, and no small room is able to reproduct it but only to recreate it in his own acoustic translation satisfyingly or less than so, depending of the mastery of room passive treatment and active mechanical control.... The acoustic of small room is NOT the acoustic of big hall or theater.... The goal and tools here are different.... To this day all audio business and hobby completely underestimated acoustic in favor of progress in electronical design... Audiophiles then instead of focusing on acoustic spend their money in an empty chase of their tail very costly sometimes... No electronical design progress in gear can replace acoustic....The reverse also is true for sure...But the audio engineering field was already mature decades ago.... Acoustic of small room is not a mature enterprise in the audio world...Only a dedicated business of those few who knows it ... I never read an article about what interested me in acoustic mechanical control of small room in ANY audio review...NONE... The reason is simple, most people dont understand Helmholtz mechanical method... Acoustic sellers sell costly Helmholtz generator to replace bass traps for example...It is a very limited way to understand Helmholtz generator and use them like i use my grid of more than 40 like a "silent orchstra" or like the silent big pipes linked to an organ in a chuch...To absorb some sounds and diffuse others... And any way the subject matter cannot interest someone who dont own a dedicated room.... A grid of Helmholtz genrators cannot be used in a small living room... |
Music is something happening when some sounds "speak" to you like if another human being was adressing you.... It is the reason why the sounds appear to me, like a tonal "vowellling" wed to a timbre " consonanting", creating perfectly clear syllables of meaning... The miracle is this: these spoken flowing "meanings" are also a VISIBLE fluid geometries flowing sometimes like in fractal geometry and sometimes more like in a projective variety, than sometimes like a river to sea or like flames to the stars.... |
This is a very important writer about 3-D sound seeing...Professor Edgar Choueiri..His name was given in a post of cd318....Thanks to him... It help me understand how my Helmhotz grid circling my room asymmetrically from one speaker to the other one help my ear to recreate a 3-D impression.. My mechanical equalizer adapt the room to the specific speakers and these speakers to my 2 ears by modifying the pressure zones near each one of them asymmetrically then giving to the first wave front for each ears a unique characteristic making them able to improve localization in all directions... I am very proud of my rudimentary homemade equalizer... For sure the sophisticated filters Professor Edgar Choueiri use are way better than my primitive equalizer which work with the large bandwidth of the human voice for feed back fine tuning ... But it is able to give me a "somewhat" 3-D sound... At no cost.... 😊 The key is my dissymmetrically way to locate different pressure zones with few Helmholtz resonators located near each speaker, some near tweeter of one , others nears bass driver of the other... http://www.psaudio.com/copper/article/conversing-with-choueiri-part-1-its-not-rocket-science/
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This guy article about " pure audio" make me understand ( i am a non scientist) why my mechanichal equalizer of Helmholtz resonators, (around my room and located near the tweeter of one speakers circling my room at 3 reflections spot and ending at the bass driver of the other speaker), why it work giving me a 3-d "timbre" surface-like location for each instrument in my room around me,but why the point-like precise location of each instruments is distorted also in some way because i cannot control the cross-talk, like it is the case with his computerized filters formulas separating each speakers from one another by feeding the right chanel data only inr the right speaker or left data for the left chanel only in the left speaker... Alas! it is probably expansive and anyway not on the market because also of the dedicated measurements of head tracking needed... It is a fascinating story.... I know understand at last WHY my Helmholtz grid is so interesting and for sure limited in his action and not without his limitations... I cannot eliminate crosstalk between speakers but my device ease the way each ears access the corresponding information in my treated and controlled room by improving the way my left speakers direct wave and the corresponding left one are treated by each ears... But because of the uncontrolled crosstalk on my system, i cannot precisely locate the sounds source, and the original room acoustic data interfer with my own room acoustic data which never disapear completely like in the case of this "pure stereo" Bacch filters... Anyway my experience trash my 7 headphones and put them at resat definitively... Then in my experience i understand now after reading his article why i locate more than ever the timbre "surface"-like distribution of each instruments in space in my room like a fractals space, way more than the abstracted recorded sound source instrument "point" relative to other instruments precise "point"-like locationin the space volume from a precise perspective taken from the recording microphones in the original room acoustic...
I am not a scientist and this is only my interpretation and understanding... One thing is certain, at no cost for me, my H. generators equalization of my room work well and i could never go back, in spite of his imperfection compared to this revolutionary new device for 3-D perfect localization... This Bacch filter device is a revolution in audio.... |
Sometimes in my room , it is relative to the original recording for sure, sometimes with some files i am immersed in the timbre surface microdynamic of an instrument and his precise spatial body location is replaced by a colored surface stretching and moving in a volume of space in my room ...
It is as if the body resonating point-like source of sound in space, the violin, is replaced by his timbre microdynamical surface in time.... For me the LOCATION point-like experience is a ThOUGHT experience in the brain, but the TIMBRE surface-like experience is more a FEELING experience of the body....I ask myself questions about this polarity and how this polarity in the body and in the soundspace play together...
Also i had often the impression of listening to music like from headphone BUT the sound being almost around my head and in some recording behind my back in the room BUT not in my head... This describe my experience... I apologize but it is difficult to translate in words....
In this bad drawing of mine i indicated in red the location of my 40 Helmholtz generators around the room and near the 2 speakers....I did not draw them all .. 😁😊 |
