Audiofail, could you qualify your statement further? What where the components downchain from the Esoteric gear with which you experienced no difference running balanced or single ended. I do admit I am slightly surprised at your findings. X-01 for one is a fully differential balanced design. I am personally running it on a fully differentially balanced system comprising of an X-01, ARC Ref 3 and Rowland 7M monos with Audioquest Sky XLR ICs. If I turn off the balanced signal on the Ref 3, there is a huge sonic difference. Admittedly, I have not tried to use a single ended length of Sky between my X-01 and the Ref 3 for validation. |
Guidokimono:
Pass XA-60 power amps
Art Audio PX-25 power amps
Atma-Sphere S30 amp
Pass X0.2 linestage
Art Audio VPS-DM linestage
Atma-Sphere MP-3 linestage
Stealth Indra
Zu Varial
Stealth Sextet
Zu Definition
Zu Druid
Silverline Bolero
Hope that helps. Email me if you wish to discuss further. |
Looking at the X-01 schematic diagram, it appears to be fully balanced design with 8 parallel/differential mode DACs per channel. These are 4 physical DAC chips but each of them has 2 paralleled DAC output sections inside. This equals total of 8 DACs per channel.
The fully differential Balanced output uses different Op Amps and is free of capacitor coupling - all DC coupled.
The Single Ended output uses a different phase summing Op Amp which is capacitor coupled on its output.
Knowing how the two configurations and different parts used will affect the sound, I have to say that there should be (and there is) a good difference between the SE and Balanced outs sound quality in favor to the Balanced.
Regards,
Alex |
Audiofeil=WC65Mustang is this the same dealer basher product endorser who was turned out by TVAD and others to be a dealer himself all along? Is it really YOU two in the same rags? Tom |
Thank you Audiofeil, did not know I had turned Japanese. A very impressive system list. I know Pass gear is fully differentially balanced, but I do not know about the rest of your gear. And have you tried to swap a balanced ICs from the X-01 to the linestage with an identical single ended one, while maintaining the rest of the fully differentially balanced system intact?
Thank you Alex, your post definitely corroborates TEAC's recommendation to run the X-01 in balanced mode for best results, as well as my own findings with the balanced/single-ended switch on the REF 3. |
I have just posted a relatively detailed listening comparison of the Shunyata Anaconda Helix Alpha and Anaconda Helix VX on a thread entitled "A Tale Of Two. . . Anacondas (Helix)". You will find it at:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1146623467&openfrom&1&4#1
For the comparison Babybear and I connected the Anacondas to the X-01 Limited in his system, hence I thought of putting a pointer to the article in this thread. |
Hi, to all my good friends on this thread. About a month ago Branimir asked me if I had heard about a "rumor" regarding Accustic Arts coming out with a new DAC that would replace their present reference the MK3. Well, the so-called "rumor" was true, they have just released their new reference called the MK4.
It seems that the MK4 is not just a refinement of the MK3, but a qualitative different technology as far as I can tell right now. The DAC1 MK3 used a 32/384 upsampling rate, the DAC1 MK4 uses something like, don't know exactly, a 60/1084 upsampling rate! I'm no expert on what this all means from a technical viewpoint, all I care about will it out perform my MK3 sonics in ways that I would find to be a more musical/organic/natural sonic signature.
Well, I have setup a home audition. I'll be getting the MK4 either on tuesday or wednesday of next week. Since I was very happy with my digital front end already, I'm very curious/excited regarding what Accustic Arts' has come up with in their new reference and surely will be sharing what I discover towards the end of next week with all of you. |
Teajay,
What is the retail price of the MK4 DAC? Is there a dealer I can purchase/audition one via the internet? Who is your dealer? |
Hi TJ, although this is a bit off topic, I would like to address to the Attraction DAC, designed by Charles Altmann (www.altman.haan.de/). This is one weird DAC (in terms of cosmetics), but it could be the giant killer among the lower priced (and certainly not $$$ reference) DACs. Have any of you heard this DAC btw.?
PS: I always thought the Audio Note DAC 5 Signature is the king among the referece DACs, followed by de Boulder reference DAC, or am I wrong?
Chris |
To address both Sgr's and Chris's questions. First, the retail price of the Accustic Arts DAC 1 MK4 is $7000.00, and I believe for XLR (balanced connections) add another $500.00. If you want information regarding your nearest dealer contact Brain Ackerman of Artistic Audio, he's a great gentleman and very knowledgable, because he's the North American importer of Accustic Arts gear. By the way, Accustic Arts is also coming out with a new reference transport, but that won't be available untill later this fall.
Chris, I never heard of the the Attraction DAC that you asked about, so I can't address its merits one way or the other. If, you have auditioned it , it would be great if you would share your opinion with us of what you think of it. As, far as the Audio Note DAC 5 or the Boulder reference DAC, they are just two of the many different reference DACS that have been discussed and analyzed on this thread. A major aspect to this thread is that their is not "ONE BEST" DAC in the world, but many great digital front ends that offer different flavors and perspectives to the listener. So, personnal taste and system synergy are the final factors to selecting the DAC for any individual system. So, yes, your "wrong" Chris, just kidding, however the overall viewpoint is that their are many great sounding pieces, not just "ONE" thats the best compared to all others on the reference level. |
Has anyone heard the Gryphon Mikado cdplayer, it is in the price range og Esoteric X01. Is it upgraded? |
I have heard the Mikado. A very good player, if a little bit costly. The build quality makes up for it though. It is def #1 flavor, like most of the Gryphon offerings. |
Well, to all my friends on this post, I have just spent the last 8 hours listening to the new Accustic Arts DAC-1 MK4 in my home rig. In one word, it sounds, glorious!
I have posted a review on the MK4 which will provide some of the details of why I believe the Accustic Arts designer's have a great new entry that many of you would want to put on your audition list. I'm not even sure its broken in yet, but it's my new reference already, bettering it's older sibling significantly!
By the way, I was wrong about the MK4's sampling rate, it's not 60/1084 but 66/1536.
If you read my succient review and want more information please let me know on this thread or on the review post. Now back to the pleasure of Kenny Burrell's Midnight Blue. |
TJ: I wonder if the Accustic Arts Mk 4 DAC is lush and warm sounding? With other words, does it sound tubelike (with a bit Audio Note "technicolor" quality) or very detailed and accurate, but also a bit understated and laid back (Mark Levinson type of sound)? Does it have great PRaT?
Thanks.
Chris |
Chris, my review, that's now up, answers the questions you have asked regarding the sonics of the MK4.
The more I listen to it, it seems to be a great synthesis between what we have been calling type 1 and type 2 "flavors" on this thread.
The "slam" and dynamics are really terrific, but what I would call a "musicality/organic" quality, that I think you are calling "tubelike", is still very much part of the overall sonic signature of this DAC.
Lastly, the soundstage/layering with a sense of "air" around the players is still very impressive as my ear's get used to this new baseline/reference in my rig. |
These questions are for Branimir. Now that I have the Accustic Arts DAC-1 MK4, and enjoying immensely, I was wondering if the MK4 is now avaliable to audition were you live in Europe?
Accustic Arts has not yet come out with their new reference transport yet, in the states, I was wondering if it was released already on your continent?
I would be very interested if you are going to try out these new Accustic Arts pieces and hear what your opinion of their sonics are compared to the other great digital front ends that you have auditioned already. |
Teajay, as far as I know Accustic Arts DAC-1 Mk4 is allready available here in Europe. I will be in Munich this week at High end show so I will see many new digital pieces... Of course, I will arrange audition of new Accustic Arts DAC and Drive 1 transport. Only thing-I need balanced version because both of my systems sound better in that mode(Krell gear sound very best in CAST mode IMO, BTW)... If you need more info just email me.
One other thing-IMO Accustic Arts should change name to something else rather then DAC-1 Mk4 because new DAC is pretty different internally then Mk3 version. Also Mk3 version is NOT possible to upgrade to Mk4 status... |
Do you guys know about the new Signature version of EMM gear? I have the "old, regular" CDSD/DCC2 and know one can upgrade to the "e' versions....but just saw on positive feedback David Robinson mini-reviewing a new eSignature" version....he doesn't go into detail what is actually chged that much but praises the sound quality diff. I contacted my sales rep in HK, as I already was planning to upgrade to e and asked him about it but he didn't know: he is gonna check w/ Ed and come back to me: not sure you can upgrade or whether one actually has to buy.... |
Branimir, the new MK4 offers both single-ended and balanced connections, so it will match up with your system quite easily. Well, as far as a name change, what can I say, the MK4 is not an upgrade of the MK3 as you said, but a totally different design, so I guess the Accustic Art's people thought calling it the MK4 was a good enough name change. I'm really enjoying its performance in my system, and its getting even better as it breaks in.
Henryhk, I believe you can upgrade your EMM LABS gear to the new ES level. Here's the phone number for EMM LABS so you can check directly with them: 503-221-0463. |
Any news about the new Krell Evo 505? |
George, Krell Evolution 505 is wonderfull player. Its performance, specially in CAST mode in truly amazing. This player has powerfull sound with warm treble and excellent midrange articulation. It is at the same level as Weiss combo! And this was a very big suprise for me! Its price/performance ratio is excellent and truly hard to beat in all Krell(CAST) system. Still, Evolution 505 is closer in sound signature to ARC REF CD7 then to Weiss or Esoteric combo... This means that its sound is warmer then average #1 flavor digital source. But, with XLRs you can get up to 90% of performance-comparing to CAST mode and you will loose another 10% with RCAs. Build quality is very good(same level of quality as ARC REF CD7) but, not at Esoteric level.
End conclusion-excellent new player from Krell, very hard to beat in Krell all CAST system. In non-Krell system results will vary. Performance level of Krell Evolution 505 is the same as Audio Research Reference CD7. Indeed very nice machine and in bass reproduction at the true reference level. Hope this will help-more next month... |
How come nobody talks about the Museatex Bidat (modded) in this thread? I've talked to many people that are respected both on this forum and outside it and they contest that it pretty much crushes everything on the market. At $3k used is it too cheap and overlooked? |
Crushes? Is it that heavy? Sounds ominous! |
Thanks Branimir about Krell.
Please a clarification
the latest and best EmmLabs models are
cdsd/dcc2
or
cdsd/dac6e ?
or something else? |
>>it pretty much crushes everything on the market<<
"Everything else on the market" includes EMM, Esoteric, Zanden, etc. Must be a small market in your world. |
>>I've talked to many people that are respected both on this forum and outside it and they contest that it pretty much crushes everything on the market.<<
Wow, bad news for the EMM, Esoteric, and Zanden owners. |
Yes indeed. When I mentioned everything I meant it. Some suggested it bested the dcs stacks, EMM labs (on redbook only) the Zanden is only starting to gather press and a slight following. I can not confirm or deny since i've heard none of the questioned DAC's but I was curious none the less. |
Lush, the friendly audiofools gathering at this particular watering hole have intentionally avoided those more earthy metaphores that happily remind us of highway wrecks, RobotWars, pro wrestling matches, and roaches and stinkbugs making a satisfying 'krunch' underfoot. Yet, if you have the opportunity of listening and comparing this device directly against some of the units being discussed here, please do post to this thread and share with us your weighty findings. |
I dont understand the personal attacks and sarcasm directed towards me, but whatever. Perhaps I was over zealous with the word "crush". But a few highender's I've talked to including dealers have stated that a modded Bidat will infact beat most of the mentioned DACS in this thread. I was just curious if anybody had compared themselves. |
Lush, no comment was meant 'ad hominem.' The only experience I have with modded players is limited to a late model of the APL 1000. It performed below my hope and expectations when compared directly to an original X-01, even though the APL 1000 was well broken in and the X-01 was rather new. Being the pedigrees of the APL 1000 and X-01 not at the same level, the comparison may not have a lot of meaning. I would not want to apply the induction step at this point and come up with a generalized statement about inherent superiority of stock machines though. Each instance of modded player can be only evaluated on its own merits. It is worth mentioning however that any third party modification to a stock unit is likely to void the original manufacturer's warranty. As for playing another round of 'Ma' CDp's More Heavier'n Yourn', my X-01 hovers around the 60 Lbs mark, which makes it quite a potential 'crusher' of various features of gender-neutral human anatomy, when not handled carefully, that is. |
Hi folks, today I compared my Accuphase DC-91 DAC (a 14 year old design!) with the contemporary April Music Stello DA-220 DAC. I must say, although the Stello is a very good and musical DAC, that the old Accuphase is still no slouch. The Stello didn't crush the old DAC, which is fortunately for me. Therefore I don't have any reason to replace this old DAC with a contemporary one. Maybe I should compare the Accuphase with the Nagra, Metronome or Weiss, or... the Accustic Arts MK IV DAC.
Chris |
Chris, how do the DC-91 and the Stello differ sonically? And how are they alike? |
Guido: the Accuphase DC-91 sounds smooth in the treble, has plenty of "air" around the voices and instruments. It also has very good bass. It is a very natural sounding unit, that doesn't draw attention to itself at first listening. The Stello is also a very good unit, with a sound that has high density in tonal color, very smooth and dynamic. The presentation is slightly more forward. The accuphase has a bit "soft" presentation, while the stello is more "incisive". The differences are not very big but sufficient for me to draw the conclusion that even if the Accuphase might be old in terms of DAC design, it is by no means "outdated" in terms of sonics. In my opinion it is therefore at least controversial that more up to date DAC design and circuit topology also automatically mean improvements in sonics.
Chris |
Chris, I used to own an Accuphase DC-91 years ago and remember it's sonics with great pleasure. In its day it gave a much more "musical" and Less "etched/bright" presentation then many other digital gear in those days.
However, to compare it to the Stello, which best is ok and quite good for its retail cost, does not give you a true take on the current reference level DACS/CDPS today.
So, try some true current references ( Accustic Arts, Meitner, Esoteric, Wiess, Zanden, to name a few) and see if you then think there has no been a major evolution/improvement in the overall sonics of the current references compared to gear from a decade ago. |
Kops...EMM Labs...the e version is an upgrade over the previous "standard"...but there is something new out called the Signature I believe. Jtinn, where are you? |
Henryhk, you may want to contact Jonathan Tinn directly at (503) 221-0465. Or send him a private message. MikeLavigne had also created a short lived thread discussing the EMM Signature. While the thread has since been pulled, he can send you his findings privately if you contact him via email. |
Anyone familiar with the Weiss Medea? What is the main sonic difference between this DAC and the Accustic Arts?
Chris |
You may be able to find the info you are seeking on Weiss Media and Accustic by reading this thread from the very beginning. |
Guidocorona, your quite right about there being much information on this thread regarding both the Accustic Arts and Wiess Media, mainly provided by Branimir who has compared both in his system.
I'm waiting to see what Branimir's opinion will be concerning the Accustic Arts DAC-1MK4, compared to the Wiess and other DACS, because I'm finding my MK4, as it keeps breaking in, to offer great sonic pleasure in my system.
Finally, Guidocorona, I was wondering what was going on with you concerning the Pass Labs XA amps, regarding if you were going to audition a pair, now that it seems that the XA-100's would power your speakers without compression or concerns over distortion and volume levels. I thought you were in the "market" to give them a go? |
Teajay
, unfortunately there are no Pass dealers in Austin. I'll try to get to a Pass dealer in one of my next trips around the country. Yes I'd love to listen to an XA, but as for being in the market for an amp upgrade. . . only in my wildest dreams. . . 'cause of WAF and all She Who Must Be Obeyed entails! |
Teajay, unfortunately you will have to wait till at least late June 2006 for my report about Accustic Arts DAC-1Mk4/Drive-1 combo. I will receive this combo late June/early July but, my plan was to go to my beach house with my family from 08th July till 05th August...
Any way I am looking forward to audition new DAC-1Mk4! Your findings are extremly positive and honestly I think we need something at reference level(performance wise) but, at almost normal(for high end!) price range... I hope you agree with me since all other gear is very expensive.
Currently I have Audio Research Reference CD7 player and Weiss Medea/Jason combo in my system No.2 and Krell Evolution 505 player and Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo in my system No.1 and let me tell you honestly that performance of both Audio Research and Krell players are at almost the same level as Weiss combo... Progress I guess... Also I am currently auditioning some new speaker. Just to say this it is better then my Amati Anniversario but, not as good as Krell LAT-1000. More on this speaker in August... Sorry to go little bit off topic!
Teajay, in your opinion how much better over all is new DAC-1Mk4 then Mk3 version(in % if possible)? Thanks for your answer and for your introduction to this wonderfull brand! |
Guidocorona, you mean to tell me that you would let your wife get in the way of a new amp! BLASPHEMY OF THE HIGHEST ORDER! I hope you know I'm just teasing, believe me, I can relate to the WAF, that many audiophiles have to deal with one way or another.
Branimir, my opinion regarding what % better is the MK4 then the MK3 would be around 25 to 30 precent overall. The MK4 is much more dynamic and yet at the same time more "musical/organic" then the MK3. I'm still amazed at how it performs in my system, it's still improving as it breaks in, yet it's not at all euphonic, if a CD is recorded poorly, it still sounds bad, but if the performance is recorded at all in a reasonable way the MK4 will let it sound very natural indeed. At $7000.00 the MK4 is not in expensive, however based on build quality and its performance, which I think is very competitive with other much more costly DACS might make it some what of a bargain at its price point. |
there will be a new sacd/cd player from MBL the 1532 sometime soon. |
There is a new contender from Swiss-Orpheus Labs
Heritage Signature DAC-this DAC is really something speciall... I will have it next month together with Orpheus Zero D cd transport. More is on 6moons article:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/orpheus/heritage.html |
Soundstage review of Esoteric D-03/P-03 combo in on line:
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/esoteric_p03_d03.htm
Read it! It is excellent review and post your comments here. |
Esoteric just introduced replacment for DV50s in Japan-two models! SA-60 and DV-60, SA-60 is SACD/CD player only while DV-60 is universal player. More details soon!
Both are expected to hit stores in USA and Europe early autumn 2006. |
Another DAC to add to the Reference list going here: The Altmann Attraction DAC. Link below:
http://www.mother-of-tone.com/attraction.htm
Probably the most well balanced, organic presentation of redbook I have heard. |
>>Both are expected to hit stores in USA and Europe early autumn 2006.<<
Not quite. The DV-60 is available in the US now. |
Pardales, what DACs have you compared the Altmann Attraction directly against? The page you kindly pointed us to is certainly interesting, yet statements like the following concern me:
"Like the BYOB amplifier, the complete electronic assembly of the Attraction DAC is vibrationally optimized, as the pcb is flat-press-mounted on a specially
treated spruce-board. This construction is time-consuming during manufacture, but improves sound quality, as all components are mechanically coupled to
a musical sound board."
Sound boards are part of the mechanical sound amplifier -- also called resonator -- found in most acoustic string instruments. They operate on mechanical vibrations ranging roughly from 20Hz to 20Khz, depending on size etc. . . I am not aware the operation of precision electronic is improved by having the chips tossed about on a surface tuned to vibrate at audible frequencies. If the Altmann design truly works, it may be one of those cases where a device excels in spite of its engineering principles, rather than because of them. |
Guidocorona: I am certainly not one to get into the technical aspects of these things -- I am just not qualified -- Charles Altmann, the designer, has a whole page on the site devoted to vibration that would be worth reading if you are interested. If you think this little spruce board vibrates (which just about everything does), imagine how much a large metal box (what surrounds most stereo components) vibrates in comparison. Food for thought.....
DAC's owned by me in the last 18 months:
Dodson 217 MK II D
Dodson 218
Audio Aero Prima MK II SE
Benchmark DAC 1
Apogee Mini USB
The Attraction DAC is the most pleasing to my ear thus far. |
