Sychedli...thats an incredible collection of players you own! Care to introduce us to the rest of your system(s)? Also given you have extensive exp with EMM, dcS, Zanden and now AOL modded Esoteric, did you find any system synergies worth noting? It escapes my recollection but I saw someone commenting that for example EMM and Audio Rsch Ref 3 was synergistic together...though he didn't say as much, I suspect it is due to both excel at sound staging and catpuring decay. Any comments or pointers? |
Teajay, good to hear from you!
Here is a small Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo review...
First, little bit about build quality-it is absolutely the best made digital gear that ever had a chance to put my fingers on! All the rest(except Weiss) looks really rubbish after these things...
Sound? Well, first issue was break-in period. It is simply toooo long! Over 800hours at least. After that period combo was able to show its intended sound. And what sound it was! It is the simply stunning way of NOT showing to the listener that some part of sonic spectrum are more important then other! English is not my first language so I am sorry if some thinks do not make sense to some of you.
It is very organized sound but, in a good way. My Weiss Medea/Jason combo is much more forward sounding then this Esoteric combo and this was a big suprise for me! Esoteric is more organic in midrange and as powerful in bass(and maybe little bit too tigh for some people). Its treble resolution is stunning but, not bright at all(break-in issue here!). What this combo you here much more detalis then on any other digital gear that I heard before. Whole setup(5 pieces) is little bit pain in the a... You will also need excellent digital cables as well(think Acrolink, Siltech or Stealth). In absolute term it beat my Weiss combo in listner involvment, midrange purity and presentation of details. And it gives you nice mid hall soundstage experience(of course, sound is big if recording is big!). It is excellent on classical, jazz but, also on rock music. It was the best Pink Floyd sound ever in my home! Will I go for it? Maybe... Who am I fooling around! I will! It is expensive but, what a sound... All I need to hear is EMMLabs gear now...
Teajay, what about new Mk4 version of Accustic Arts DAC?? I heard some rumor about it... |
Branimir and Exilibris, thanks for sharing what you have been up to lately.
Exilibris, I will find very interesting what you like better after you audition the Weiss combo compared to the EMM combo in your system.
Branimir, I have heard nothing regarding a new MK4 version of the Accustic Arts DAC, however I will check into it. So, do I got it right, that you are not going to audition the new Krell digital gear, and your new reference is the Esoteric combo?
A little off the topic, I'm looking forward to tomorrow morning because I'm auditioning a pair of Pass Labs XA-100 monoblocks and I will recieve them in the morning. I have wanted to try these for a long time in my system and finally will scratch this " sonic itch"! Pure single-ended class A, I hope they turn out to be as good as I think they will be. I have no concerns regarding how my Pass Labs X-350.5 powers my MG-20R's midrange/ribbon tweeters right now, its a great sounding amp, but my hunch is that the XA"s will even be more "musical/natural" in my system. It's going to be fun the next few days around my house listening to these mono-blocks as they break in. |
Teajay, I will try to audition EMMLabs combo and Krell Evolution 505 CD/SACD player will be in my system in few weeks. Regarding Krell Evolution Three(3 pieces reference digital player) I will also put my hands on it as soon as it become available. Is Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo my current reference? Yes but, I need to audition Esoteric D-03/P-03/G-0s combo as well(and maybe even Esoteric P-03Universal transport)...
I forget to say that G-0s external clock is reason for extra 20% better sound. D-01/P-01 combo is excellent without external clock but, simply amazing with it!
BTW, Teajay, give us a small review about Pass XA100, specially how will they sound against your X350.5! |
Branimir, I have been in sonic heaven since the XA-100's have been singing their song in my system for the last 13 hours! I don't know if they will get much better as they break-in, because they sound wonderfull right now. These monoblocks are my new reference in my system. I just posted a review that hopefully will be accepted by the GON guys, so instead of getting long winded on this thread, take a look at my humble attempt at conveying the beauty of these monoblocks. I think you would find the sonics of the XA amps very interesting and different then your Krell gear, not necessarly better, but another great flavor or taste of musical expression. |
Henryhk , thanks. EMM combo was happy in the company of an active tube pre ( any Supratek for instance ) , dCS can be used with a passive volume control, Zanden needed more gain and looked happy when matched with the DartZeel solid state pre. Amps - it's a long story , collected 3 dozen , including 2 custom made Electronluv, used to be an amp freak.
However, in the case of the NWO-2 APL tube modded TEAC Esoteric UX-01 ( 6H30 tube output) feeding a Mick Maloney 110 Hz active crossover ( I'm bi-amping) well, nothing comes close, of course in my system , room , ears aso. While I own 10,000 + vinyl, and considered the SME 30 / IO-J / Kondo phono combination the ultimate reference , digital now sounds as good and ocasionally better .
There, you can start now the flames :-)
Pleasant listening to everybody,
Dan |
Teajay,
Tell us how the XA100 compare to the x350.5, please. I am dying to know. Threads don't need approval.
Gordon |
Hi Gordon, I have already posted my review of the XA-100's and still am being amazed at how great they sound in my system. For the details regarding the differences between the 350.5 and the XA-100's take a look at my review and if you want even more specific information let me know on that thread. I hope my review gives a good sense regarding the different sonics of each amp and shows that both are great amps in their own right. The bottom line is I just shipped off the 350.5 as a trade in and the XA-100's are my new reference. |
To me all the contemporary reference DACs are more similar than different, whether non oversampling or over- and upsampling technologies are being applied. With each new generation DAC there is a small improvement, which is often not worth the cost of upgrading or replacing the older DAC. It is still amazing that at hifi shows people tend to like analog more than digital, even if the digital equipment used is state-of-the-art. The strange thing is also that with vinyl with passing of time and developement of new (material) technologies, there is a real and steady improvement, whereas in digital each developement wouldn't necessarily lead to improvement. I think in red book CD there wouldn't be any (real) improvements to be expected in the near future.
Chris |
Chris, I agree with your viewpoint to a certain degree, but the point of this thread is reference DACS, regardless of what sampling technologies they use, offer different "flavors" or sonic perspectives that amount to real differences that are significant to the listener.
When you get to this high level of performance all the DACS offer wonderful sonics, but that does not negate that there is real improvement compared to older digital front ends, even though its in small incremenents at this level. I have found these small, but real improvements were worth the cost to up grade. I do not play " flavor of the month" with gear in my system, but it seems about every 2 to 3 years digital gets better compared to the older gear. |
chris, i think redbook has improved dramatically(we can thank sacd/dvd-a for that - though it didnt make it as a mainstream format. it would appear it sent alot of redbook designers back to the drawingboard) digital as a whole as evolved rapidly over the last 2 years in regards to:
- really great one box players
- major dac improvement in terms of jitter, output stage, and musicality (for less $$)
- transport options. it would appear that older "good" transports are still desireable (sonics and build quality). However the transition to hard drive servers/transports (whole topic all together) looks like it will be the new medium. there are not too many cases where convience, sonic improvement, and lower cost present itself.
-importance of vibration control / jitter
-digital interconnects (i am awaiting something new.. there hasnt been any major breakthrough. most of the top tier cables came out in 2000 (there has been alot of noise about the stealth varidig"
though digital is not as "good" as analog, it is narrowing the gap. try a $2k player like a naim or marantz (redbook) compared to to anything offered 2 x the price 3-4 years ago..overall this is my impression with the progression of redbook over the last couple years. |
2 days ago I've heard the P03-D03 Esoteric combo, it was simply amazing no relation to the outcoming X03.
Tremendous quality, authority and confidence. Not heard with the clock yet. My friend is absolutely satisfied. Yes I'd buy it if I could afford it. |
Has anyone been able to compare the Teac Esoteric P03/D03 with the X-01 Limited? |
my friend who had x03 replaced by the p03/d03 told me the difference was huge with capital H.
Go figure then.
And the combo has upgrade path with the clock. |
Thank you KOPS, unfortunately the X-03 is not even at the sonic level of X-01, which is below sonic level of X01 Limited. If the $6K X-03 sounded just as good as the $25K P03/D-03 combo I'd be truly surprised. |
Mike, in the context of reference DACs, that means no compromise DACs, I have to say that, albeit a steady improvement in red book CD technology, the differences between those reference DACs (from 1992-today) are not very large compared to differences between mid fi and lower high end DACs (from 1992-today). I think it is because even older reference DACs are no compromise designs (Wadia 9, Krell Reference 64, Accuphase DC-91). They might have older digital technology, but the analog part (which is also very important) was and is still superb. I'm not saying they are comparable or better than today's SOTA DACs, but they are at least still no slouch sonically speaking (and certainly not "outdated" in my opinion). If you spend $3000 for a Krell Reference 64 DAC (from 1992) nowadays, I think it is still a good investment.
Chris |
This weekend we had the opportunity to gather with some friends and try some digital sources on a system.
The 3 digital setups where -Resolution audio opus21 -Accustic arts drive1&dak mkIII - Theta generation 8&carmen as transport.
The differences where audible and clear. All played well and the priciest the better. It was general impression that the Theta genVIII was smoother, grainfree relaxing and more organic. Isn't it a good contenter the Theta VIII? how do you compare it?
We all thought Theta needed a better transport but for some reason Accustic arts transport (very solid made and exceptional construction as a transport) don't lock with Theta unfortunately.
The rest of the system was Montana Xp speakers, Hovland HP100 preamp and Sphinx Project24 (Dutch made ultra highend amplifier Gryphon-like sound). |
Guidocorona-P-03/D-03 combo(specially with G-0s) is a lot better then X-01 or X-01Limited. Next month there will be a review on Soundstage web site by M.Michelson-very positive one! Esoteric P-03/D-03/G-0s combo is almost as good as P-01/D-01/G-0s combo...
Kops-Regarding Theta GenVIII I auditionit few months ago with Theta Compli universal transport(with so called Theta link connection between them) and was not that impressed...
Theta GenVII/Comli combo was warmer in upper midrange them my Weiss Medea/Jason combo but, whole sound quality was a lot better with Weiss. Weiss combo was more detailed, with more low level details and better upper level resolution. Biggest difference was bass, Theta combo was not that powerful or defined in bass(specially lower bass as organ pedal notes). Also build quality of Theta combo was well, not at the best level... |
Very intriguing Branimir, would you mind elaborating sonic differences between P03/D03 combo and X-01 Limited? Thanks, Guido |
Guido, I did not listen personally so this info is only second hand...
My friend compared X-01 against P-03/D-03/G-0s combo. His findings:
1. P-03/D-03/G-0s combo is better then X-01 in low level resolution, bass power and definition, midrage presence.
Highs are allmost the same as on X-01 but, more organic sounding.
2. Is P-03/D-03/G-0s combo worth the extra price over X-01(or X-01LTD)? In his words answer is yes.
I did comparison between my P-01/D-01/G-0s and Weiss Medea/Jason combos against X-01 and difference were allmost the same. Big Esoteric combo was a lot better then its small borther... On the other hand Weiss combo was not so much better then X-01, specially on some specific music...
I will have P-03/D-03 combo in few weeks time and I will then post here small review and comparison against P-01/D-01/G-0s and Weiss Medea/Jason combo's. |
I have had the EMM combo on loan the whole past week. IMO there is not really much I could add over what other ppl have already written about EMM sound, but I just wanted to say, that this time, I have had ZERO problems with CDSD. No static noise, no display problems, no disc reading problems. Nothing. It seems that the problems have been solved by EMM with a transport replacement.
Hope to get the Audio Aero SACD prestige next week. |
Thank you very much Branimir. Yet it would be interesting to verify if the comparison with the P03/D03 still held when the X-01 is replaced with the X-01 Limited, which is in itself a significant improvement over the original. |
I've just received my Metronome Kalista Reference transport and Boulder 2020 DAC. This combo literally burried my EMM stack (CDSD + DAC6e) even at their first 5 minutes of playing. There was no comparison at all. Gone was the metallic harsh sound of the EMM's. This combo has everything you wish for, very analog sweet sound, big, 3-D soundstage and all the detail and clarity of EMM stack. The setup/tweaking will take another week but I could say that I've reached the audio nirvana. |
Guido, the Esoteric vision/objective was/is to design a digital transport in such a way that ALL the information possible is retrieved from the actual disc and I have to say that they have done an OUTSTANDING job!!!
While the top line Burr-Brown laser trimmed ladder DACs in the UX-1, X-01 and D-1 would give you very accurate and airy presentation, the top line AD1955 DACs by Analog Devices in the CHEAPER combo would provide more rounded and bottom heavy sound. This might be to the liking of some but not to everyone, especially those who own truly revealing systems which are not in the need of "smoothing out". The fact that Esoteric have decided to use the Burr-Brown in the top line and Analog Devices in the cheaper line is more than self explanatory. “Oh, but it sounds better”. Sure in that audio system to those ears.
In conclusion, Teac Esoteric VRDS-NEO is hands down the LEADER when it comes to a digital transport today. What is behind the VRDS-NEO in terms of electronics just suits different tastes.
Regards,
Alex |
Thank you Alex, this is the first time I read a good characterization of the AD sound. A twist to the whole matter though is the fact that TEAC adopted the AD chips for the $25K P03/D03 combo. Have you heard it. I wonder at this point if TEAC is abandoning Burr Brown in favor of AD throughout its Esoteric Line for the sake of facile euphony. |
I suspect that this will be somewhat off point but I had the opportunity to listen to an Esoteric P-01 in a system with which I am very familiar, Martin Logan Summits and subs, Parasound JC1's, Tact 2.2x, Levinsin ML 30.1 transport, good quality cabling and power cords. This system had never really been one that I would have wanted to own. It did some things well but was tonally a bit thin with a touch of brightness, lack of image density, little depth and an image that had a tendency to wander. I blamed the Tact room correction, but really had no basis for that assumption. The owner substituted the Esoteric P-01 about two weeks ago. Initially the sound was unremarkable and a bit bright. By last Sunday the system had undergone a major transformation with all the weaknesses corrected, phenomenal bass, rock solid images, layered depth, wall to wall soundstage, excellent dynamics, lower noise floor, greater ability to hear into the music, greater transparency, and correct tonality. We listened primarily to Schubert symphonies. I was speechless. I just wanted to listen to the music not disect it. I am not sure what the moral of this story is, but I do know that I was very much impressed that the change out of the transport could make this kind of difference. I have not heard the P-03 so have no thoughts on how it compares, but I find myself trying to figure out how to afford the P-01/D-01/G0 combination and this is from someone who already owns a Rockport TT. Go figure. |
Branimir, Guidocorona, Kops, I got a chance yesterday to listen to the Esoteric X-01 Limited, in a very good system that was totally different that I'm accustomed to listening to, and thought it was a terrific sounding CDP.
Since, you guys are the "Esoteric" experts, how close does the X-01 Limited come to the performance of the very expensive high end Esoteric seperate transports and dacs? What precentage of performance does the X-01 Limited give compared to its more high end siblings?
If, any of you have had the experience of listening to the Accoustic Arts DAC 1 MK3 and transport and the X-01 Limited, how would you describe the differences/similarities in their sonic signatures?
Finally, Guidocorona, I never heard from you regarding if my response regarding the Pass Labs XA-100's had answered you questions regarding their sonics compared to the 350.5. So, should I assume it was helpful enough or you just got into other things audio and otherwise and still would like to discuss the topic? |
Teajay, I am glad that you liked sound of Esoteric X-01LTD.
Precentage of differences? I would say that X-01 achives about 75% of P-01/D-01/G-0s combo. X-01LTD is little bit better then X-01 but, difference here is within 5%, IMO.
As Alex very nicely pointed out P-03/D-03/G-0s combo is different sounding then P-03/D-03/G-0s combo since it is using AD1955 dacs(D-01 or X-01/X-01LTD are using BB1704) which are warmer sounding devices by design. So, you can even say that D-03 is #2 sound flavor but, not IMO. It is very closr to #2 flavor but, still #1 flavor for me. All Esoteric gear is #1 flavor with D-03 sounding warmer then others.
Let put it this way:
P-01/D-01/G-0s combo 100%
P-03/D-03/G-0s combo 90%(in some systems up to 95%)
X-01LTD 80%
X-01 75%
UX-1/X-03 65%(or 70% for X-03)
UX-3 60%
DV-50S 50%
As a comparison(IMO):
Weiss Medea/Jason combo 85%(in some systems up to 90%)
Krell Evolution 505 80%(XLRs, with Krell CAST up to 90%!!)
Audio Research REF CD7 75%(but, emotional champ!)
All comparison are made in my system No.1
Teajay, are you starting to consider some of Esoteric gear for your system? |
My apologies Teajay, your info about XA100 and X350.5 was actually very useful. . . and a little depressing, as the implication may be that if I ever acquire MG 20.1 I may need to by amp them, keeping my Rowlands 7M on the bottom, with XA100 or similar at the top. . . which shall certainly cause She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed to come down on me with a bloody axe, or perhaps even with a rusty draguinasse! I'd love to discuss, but may be not on this thread.
On X-01 vs X-01 LTD, I have heard both, on the same system, but not during the same session. I have the suspicion that the difference may be relatively significant. Ltd seems to have even greater grace, authority detail, and musicality than original X-01, but until Babybear and I get both units on the same system for a good comparison session, I can only give educated memory driven impressions. On P03/D03 vs X-01 Limited, my experience is solely hearsay by dereferencing. I have heard from one experienced listener who is familiar with both models in very similar systems, but not played in an a/b situation. They appear to favor X-01 over P03/D03: the combo may be perhaps sweeter, or slightly euphonic, while the X-01 may have an edge in detail, authority and realism. Yet, until I have the opportunity of trying things for myself, I will truly not know even my own brand of totally subjective truth. |
Branimir, why do you suppose there is a significant difference between the UX-3 and X-03? You rated the X-03 at 65-70% and the UX-3 at 60% of the P-01/D-01/G-0s combo.
They appear to be completely identical (parts and execution) through the digital and analog sections with the exception that the UX-3 offers video and DVD-A capabilities. I believe the UX-3 also shuts down all video circuitry when playing non-video discs. Do you have an opinion why they sound different? Thanks,
Jordan |
I think than Branimir has done a good job of ranking the relative improvements as you move up the Esoteric line. While its all very subjective, I have heard both the X01 and X01 LE in my system (but not at the same time), and I would say that the difference is probably more than 5%. The X-01 LE compared to the X01 has better bass extension, its smoother and more textured in the mid-range and most definitely sweeter in the top end. Now, to put all of this in perspective, the list price on the X-01 LE is $13,500, the P03/D03/G0s combo has retail price of $38,000 and the P01/D01/G0s combo has a retail price of $63,000. So, the X-01 LE besides being a great one box CDP, is a relative bargain (if you can call something that lists for $13,500 a bargain). Having said all of that, if I had an extra $63,000 (along with the money for the extra cables and power cords), and the space for a 5 box unit in my listening room and I could convince my very understanding wife - I would get the P01/D01/G0s as well. Arnie |
Branimir, even if I was interested in changing my digital front end right now, I would have to wait and put some cash back in my "audio account" after my recent purchases of the Pass Labs X-100's and a Running Springs Audio Jaco line conditioner.
The reason I was seeking your and the other very knowledgeable members opinion regarding the X-01 LE was that I have not heard it in my own system and was quite curious about the type of flavor, type 1 or type 2, this player has to offer. At this point I'm still very pleased with my Ensemble reference transport and the Accoustic Arts dac 1 MK3 performance in my system. Since, I heard the X-01 LE in a system that gave me no reference point to really "hear" what the piece has to offer, I could not compare the sonics of my digital front end with the X-01 LE in any meaningful way.
Since, you have heard both digital front ends, it would be great if you compared and contrasted what the sonics are in these two different pieces.
If, I auditioned an Esoteric piece in my system it would be the X-01 LE because of the comments on this thread and it would fit into my budget in the near future. |
Ok, here we go...
Jordan, difference between X-03 and UX-3 is indeed very small. I will correct myself-both are around 65-70%, depending on the system. But, to my ears X-03 sounded little bit better in bass(RBCDs) then UX-3.
Since I own DV-50s,UX-3 and P-01/D-01/G-0s combo I think that I have enough Esoteric experience...
One other thing-all these ratings are with balanced(XLRs) connection. All Esoteric gear sounds better that way and most of them use differential dacs configuration.
If you do not need DVD-V/DVD-A playback then simply go for X-03 and save some money(more CDs or maybe new G-25U clock that I will try in two weeks time with UX-3).
Arnie, I agree with you 100% that X-01LTD is the best buy currently form Esoteric(Although, both X-03 and UX-3 are very good players for money also, IMO) and maybe the best buy in that price range on the market!
We shouldn't forget that build quality of all Esoteric gear is way better then most of the competition.
Teajay, difference between X-01(I did not yet audition X-01LTD in my system) and Accustic Arts Drive1/DAC1Mk3 combo?
X-01 is better in bass definition and tightness, midrange is little beat leaner then Accustic Arts(but, this is really small difference) and highs are more open on X-01 with a lot more details. All in all X-01 is excellent #1 flavor player and Accustic Arts is excellent #2 flavor combo. They are different sounding so, final choice will more depend on system synergy(Here I go again!!) and/or your personal music taste.
If any of you want little bit warmer sound from Esoteric then P-03/D-03/G-0s combo is the answer. But, I do not know why yet, this combo is sounding warmer without G-0s then with it! And to my ears sound of this combo with G-0s is definitely better and more "Esoteric like" in flavor... |
Germanboxer, as far as I know the X-03 uses a lighter, cost engineered version of the VRDS transport mechanism, which may explain the sonic difference with UX-1 that Branimir is suggesting. As far as I know, this is the simplified/cheaper VRDS that TEAC also sells to other manufacturers, such as WADIA. |
Branimir, thank you for sharing your experiences...this has been very helpful!!! You are certainly the Esoteric man!! What is the cost of the G25?
Guidocorona, I was speaking of the UX-3 versus XO-3 comparison. These two units use the same transport and it appears identical digital and analog sections. The only difference is the video on the UX-3. The XO-1 uses 4 BB PCM1704 DACS/channel versus 2 BB PCM1704 DACS/channel in the UX-1, UX-3, and XO-3. I'm pretty sure I'm right on this? |
Germanboxers, I believe you correct about DAC config. Yet, I seem to recall Tim Crable at TEAC telling me that the transports on X-03 is a lesser brother of those found on X-01 and UX-1. |
Guidocorona, you are correct, the UX-3 and XO-3 have a "lesser brother" transport of the UX-1 and XO-1. That's why I was a little confused with the relative ranking of the UX-3 / XO-3. I have never compared them, but I assumed they would be very similar in sound since the UX-3 and XO-3 are identical in transport, DAC, and (I think?) analog output stage, the only difference being that the UX-3 has 6 video DACs for DVD and supports DVD-A.
The UX-1 / XO1 comparison is more interesting because both use the top shelf VRDS transport, but the UX-1 uses only 2 BB PCM1704 DACS / channel (same as UX-3 and XO-3) and the XO-1 uses 4 BB PCM7104 DACS / channel. I think the XO-1 Ltd also uses better internal wiring and has a few other upgrades, but I think fundamentally (transport, DAC configuration, Analog design) are the same. I'm not sure of this though? |
Germanboxers - the X-01 limited has about 100 part upgrades over the X01 and UX-1. The changes as I am understand them are as follows:
1. The RCA output jacks are now WBT Nextgen jacks
2. The Digital output jack is now WBT Nextgen
3. Internal wiring has been changed from Van den Hul silver wiring to Acrolink 6N copper wiring - same as used in the P01/D01 Esoteric combo
4. Changes to the connectors, capacitors and resistors in the output stage to the same ones that are also used in the P01/D01.
5. An improved stock power cord based on Acrolink copper wire - same as the one used in the P01/D01. However, any of the esoteric products benefit greatly from aftermarket power cords and as Branimir says above, they also should be run in balanced mode.
Hope this helps. Arnie |
Jordan, price for G25U is $3K in USA.
Teajay,Guido and all other guys-here is a link to 6moons Srajan Ebaen Esoteric G25U review:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/esoteric2/g25u.html
Although I personally do not like Mr. Ebaen writing style or his system I think this is his best review yet. It is not positive or negative, you will see... Technically, it features several topics that may be interested for you. Please, comment this review here after reading it! |
Hi,
I have tried the Esoteric G0s clock with my X-01 in my system. I had in my system for a week and a half, listening for 2-3 hours per day. I then removed the clock and listened again. I could not hear any difference. I am not saying that it didn't have an effect, just none that I could hear. For a separate experiment, I tried to hear its effect by turning it on/off during playback of an individual CD track. Again, I could not hear any difference. I have also tried the APogee Big Ben clock that is mentioned in the review - again with the same results. I have no doubt that with a combo unit - the P03/D03 or the P01/D01 that the G0s clock makes an audible improvement that I would hear, but with a one box player of the caliber of the X-01 or X-01 ltd, its extrememly subtle at best and I would agree that the $13,000 is better spent elsewhere. |
Has anyone compared the latest DACs with the Levinson 30.6 and 31.5 combo? How close is it to the SOTA? I'm interested in Redbook only. I currently own a 360s/31.5 and have seen some info on this thread concerning the 360s DAC, but not the 30.6 which is a different beast. I know it would not have the latest chips, but the power supply looks superior to many efforts, having a dedicated power supply for the left, right channels, and digital. These things don't last long on Audiogon so there must be a demand especially at $6500.? I'd sure like some info.
Thanks,
Steven |
Banimir, thank you for the info and also the link...it was a good read, though extraordinarly long-winded. The jitter specs mentioned regarding the XO-3 and UX-3 may contribute to the perceived sense of the XO-3 being slightly better? I wish he would have explained why the UX-3 had higher jitter...I wonder how the video electronics could contribute to higher jitter, everything else the same? Nevertheless, it's still good info.
I did enjoy the addition of Jeff Kalt's thoughts on "upsampling" vs. "oversampling" and his preference for synchronous over/upsampling vs. asynchronous. Thanks for the link!!
Jordan |
Branimir, that was an amusing and fair article. My own observations on a couple of X-01 players under control of a G0s clock closely match Babybears inconclusive findings. Theory is that these external clocks have probably more impact on multibox units such as P01/D01. What's your own finding Branimir?
I especially enjoyed the article's comment in the conclusion section:
"After all, if the razzle-dazzle technology implemented in the reclocker operates with such
subtlety on the X-03, it means that the latter is scarily good on its very own terms." |
In a test with the g25 clock with X03, no sound improvement justified the purchase so it went back to the dealer.
The big components need the g0, the g25 is not ....but again you don't have 100% success on all your products. |
Guido, Jordan and rest-glad you like the article!
Guido, effect of G-0s is truly as you said more apparent on combo's like P-01/D-01 or P-03/D-03...
I first listen P-01/D-01 combo without G-0s for one week time and then I add G-0s. At first I was puzzled with effect of G-0s but, after a while its effect was clear to me! Example: on "Misa Criolla" by Ariel Ramirez(Philips Classics 420 955-2) voice of Jose Carreras is more natural with G-0s then without it! And chorus on the same recording is more powerfull with G-0s! But, these differences are within 5% margin... So, if P-01/D-01/G-0s combo is 100% then P-01/D-01 is 95%! Yes, final 5% of performance for $13K! But, IMO G-0s is a must for any buyer of P-01/D-01, P-03/D-03 or P-03Universal/D-03 combos.
Now, when I know effect(those 5%!!) of G-0s I can not live without it. Call me crazy but,that's the fact.
Guido, I absolutely agree with you that G-0s is actually not important with X-01/X-01LTD at all. This is the reson that I will test cheaper G-25U with UX-3 player to see if there is any effect at all. |
Branimir, I eagerly await your conclusions on the G-25U/UX-3 combo. Let's see if Mr. Ebaen's assumption that a 10 to 1 ppm clock precision improvement is significant to quality of sound or if it is, at best, very subtle like Mr. Ebaen concluded with the 3 to 1ppm clock precision improvement in XO-3?
This really has been a wonderful thread...great content, minimal to no chest thumping, and great attitude and spirit toward understanding the differences in current digital SOTA. Thanks to Teajay for starting the thread and to Branimir, Teajay, and many others for keeping it going with high quality content!!
Jordan |
Jordan, many thanks for your kudos to me and the rest of the guys on this thread. I too have enjoyed the wealth of information that has been shared in a friendly, respectful,and very knowledgeable way.
A question for the Esoteric experts: Everything I have read has clearly stated that to get the very best performance out of the X-01LTD it MUST be run with balanced cables and not single ended wires. So, if its not possible to run balanced, how much does this damage the absolute performance of this player?
A question for Branimir, somebody loved the sound of my Accustic Arts/Ensemble duo, but cannot afford these pieces. So, in your opinion, which would come closer to this type 2 signature, the Acoustic Research reference CDP or the Accustic Arts CDP? I don't believe that the AA CDP can match the performance of the AA DAC1 MK3, but which do you like better between the Audio Research reference CDP and the Accustic Arts CDP? |
Teajay,
Esoteric gear looses around 10% of its performance if you use single-ended connection. Same is with my Audio Research Reference CD7!
Accustic Arts Player1Mk2 or Audio Research REF CD7? In absolute terms REF CD7 is better player but, there are few issues... First, Accustic Arts Player1Mk2 sound the same in balanced as in single-ended mode. That is advantage if your friend can not use balanced connection. Second, REF CD7 runs very warm(7 tubes inside!) and user will have to change its tubes someday... Third, price difference is around $2K and while REF CD7 is better player how many CDs can you buy for $2k?? So, if money is no object(in $10K range) and your friend wants the best #2 flavor sound and he can run it balanced then Audio Research Reference CD7 is the answer. But, if he needs to use single-ended connection only and wants to save some money(more CDs!!) then, although not that good, Accustic Arts Player1Mk2 is a good solution. |
Branimir , Teejay, don't forget Cary 306sacd and Ayrec5xe.
In many tests Cary 306sacd outrunned Esoterix x03. IMO and several friends opinion |
>>Esoteric gear looses around 10% of its performance if you use single-ended connection.<<
Not true. I am an Esoteric dealer and have used the X-03, X-01LE, and P-03/D-03 with both single ended and balanced cables. There is no discernible difference. |
