Reference DACS: An overall perspective
Exlibris, thanks for the "WOW" for now. I'll find it very interesting what it will do with your Meitner gear and how you will describe your "take" on what it does sonicly in your system. As you know, I'm quite a fan of this cable and thought it was one of the most important changes that I did this last year to bring my whole system to another level of musical pleasure. Let us know your final opinion in the next couple of days. |
Exlibris, my experience was that it was immediately superior to my old reference cable right from the moment I put it in my system. If it did improve, and I'm sure it did, it was a subtle change towards total brake in without steep/dramatic stops or starts in the process. As I always do, I went back to my other reference cable after about four or five days and confirmed that the Sextet cable really is something special. So, if your enthralled now you have nothing to be concerned about regarding how the cable will sound when totally broken in. When you have fully digested what your hearing with the Sextet in your system, please collect your thoughts and share what you hear/experience now compared to your other digital cable. I did my best to explain what I heard when I wrote my review for the Gon, but would love to hear how you would put into words what this cable does sonically. I'm sure your having fun listening to music this weekend, just think some individuals still don't think cables make a difference, ya right! |
Exlibris, Do you really belive that everything that John Potis said in his review is the whole truth? First, we do not know was he using Zero One Ar38 dac or his Audio Aero Prima SE(both, IMO are middle of the road pieces). Second, Green Day "American Idiot" as reference music to compare cd transports? Come on! I am personally not interested in Zero One gear but, wait for(at least) one REAL review in Stereophile and TAS. It will be very interested will they be interested to review it and will reviews be so positive as one on 6moons and Positive feedback... Better one, try to compare it to EMMLabs CDSD with your DCC2. You will see that CDSD will wipe out the floor with ZeroOne transport(if you will use DCC2 dac). I bet on it! |
Branimir, I certainly don't believe everything I read; including what I read in Stereophile and TAS. I'm not familiar with John Potis. Do you find the reviews on 6moons and PF to be less objective than those in Stereophile and TAS? I take them all with an equal grain of salt. I'm trying to keep an open mind about hard-drive audio. Here's the bottom line: the engineer's original digital audio tape sounds so much better than the CDs that are produced from it. I have to believe that there is a higher-quality way to play back digitally recorded music than spinning optical discs made of plastic. To be honest, with high-end CD playback I think we are all trying to make silk purses from sows' ears. |
Exlibris, besides that I always take a very skeptical view of all reviews, I would agree with what Branimir stated and add the following two points: 1) Without coming across as an audiophile "snob" I don't have to much respect for Potis' overall system, not just the DACS he uses, but the rest of his gear. I'm not a fan of either of his speakers or the cables/wires he uses. 2) I find the theoretical explanations of way a hard drive might offer a more pure, less jitter, signal then a laser based transport very interesting, but I think its much to soon to decide that its a superior strategy right now. So, I believe I'm still open minded but I would have to hear/audition a hard drive in my own system before I would jump on that bandwagon. I'm still looking forward to your "field report" on the Sextet, hope your still enjoying it. |
Pardales, What transport did you own prior to going with the hard-drive system? In my, very limited, experience there is something to be gained by ripping a CD but there are also some things that get lost: 1. low-level ambient detail and venue cues 2. an organic and natural presentation of space is often replaced by an amorphous sense of space, a 'black void.' |
Personally I am too interested in a hard drive source in addition, not as a replacement to my Meitner front end. Its less audio quaility driven but rather motivated by convenience in terms of data storage and flexibility such playlists. Having said that it has taken quite a long time for regular redbook technology to get to where it is now....as such I think its best to wait for awhile to see if we get more competition from the mfrs in this area then figure things out. |
Henryhk, I'm still using the SACD 1000 (not the CDSD). I use the clock in the SACD 1000. I like the Stealth so much that I actually prefer to listen to the Redbook layer of SACDs (using the Stealth wire) rather than listen to the SACD layer using the ST Glass wire. My understanding is that since the DCC2 upconverts PCM to DSD anyway, I don't think it should matter if PCM or DSD is coming from your CDSD. I've read that using the ST Glass wire requires a conversion of the signal from electrical-to-optical-back to-electrical. Each time there is a conversion jitter is introduced. I'm no techie; I'm just reporting what I read. |
I've posted a short review of the Stealth Varidig Sextet digital cable here: Stealth Varidig Sextet |
Exlibris, I just got through reading your extremely well written review of the Sextet. I'm relieved that you came to the same conclusions regarding the sonic beauty of this cable as I did and that I was not exaggerating/magnifying totally out of proportion what it does to the over all sonic signature of system. So, with your system sounding the way it does now with the Sextet and your Meitner front end, do you think you will still audition the Accustic Arts pieces or other DACS or did you get all of what you were looking for, so your search is over for now? Either way, with your gear I'm sure it sounds wonderful. |
Teajay, Long story... Since I no longer use the preamp section of the DCC2 and I no longer listen to SACDs, I just can't justify owning such an expense "CD player" (DCC2 + CDSD = $20k; my car is worth half that). I'm looking to sell my DCC2 and SACD 1000. The first thing I will do is upgrade my linestage. I will then probably buy one of the following DACs (I've only heard the first one): 1. Accustic Arts DAC 1 mk3 2. Reimyo DAP-777 3. Audio Aero Capitole (I'm not sure if this one is on the market yet). 4. Weiss Medea (if I can luck into a demo or used one) As for the transport, I want to keep it cheap and cheerful because I'm going to be keeping my eye on hard-drive-based transports. I hope that I will be satisfied with a CEC TL-51x in the meanwhile. |
Exlibris, very nice review of Stealth cable! I will try to get two of them in January... I see that you are thinking about Weiss Medea? Few tips from me: very long break-in period(500hours), you need excellent power cord and with cheeper cd transport you can have up to 80% of its potential( full 100% is only with Weiss Jason cdt and double AES/EBU connection)... Merry Christmas to all of you and all the best in new year! Branimir |
Branimir, thanks for the kind holiday greetings, hope very much that you enjoy the holidays too. If I remember are you coming to the states/going to the CES in January? When you get your Stealth Sextet cables next month, I believe you will find them superb and will bring either of you systems to another level of musicality. The Sextet seems to work its magic regardless of what digital pieces its being used with. I know you will let us know what you think after your audition and it will be fun to hear what your take is on this cable. |
I've always said that I'm not interested in owning a great stereo; I really don't like how stereos sound. I'm interested in experiencing real music in my listening room. -------------------- I tried using an old MSB DAC with the Accustic Arts Drive 1 that I still have on loan. I defeated the upsampling and the various filters that came as options on the DAC. The sound was a little thin, a little bright, and a little aggressive; but it was refreshingly 'unprocessed'. It had a rightness and an immediacy to it. The air on the soundstage was clean and well-lit. The walls of the recording venue would light up as sound bounced off them and echoed around. The pairing of the AA Drive 1 and AA DAC1 mk3 was certainly smoother, fuller and more sophisticated. The Drive 1 and the EMM DCC2 were downright boring. It should be noted that both upsampling DACs came across as somewhat 'processed' and 'unnatural' in comparison with the MSB in non-upsampling mode. They reminded me of the kind of sound you sometimes get when a manufacturer 'softens' a solid state amp to make it sound more like a tube amp; it's just unsatisfying. This experience has me seriously looking into non-upsampling DACs. They sounded good to me in theory but now I can say that they also sound, not necessarily good (just yet), but 'right,' in practice. |
Exlibris, I always find your comments interesting and led me to more questions after reading them. 1) Did you have have the chance to audition the Audiomat reference Dac which does not upsample? 2) Did you audition the AA DAC1mk3 with the Sextet or did you have to return it before you got the Stealth cable? 3) If you liked the non-upsampling DAC would you attempt to audition DACS from Audio Note or Zanden? My personnal experience has been that the non-upsampling DACS, in my system, did not sound as "musical" as the best upsampling gear. I had a ML-360s that was quite good but when I added a DCS Purcell and upsampled to 24/96 the performance was taken to another much higher level in all sonic aspects. When I auditioned a high level Audio Note it was ok, but not better then my reference at that time. My hunch, after getting to know your taste in sonics, is that you really like a type 2 flavor that sounds more like real music to your ears. Finally, great idea posting a thread on the sonics of reference transports, hope theirs lots of discussion and sharing. |
Exlibris and Teajay, first-my Sextet Digital(AES/EBU) is on its way here... I will have it in two weeks time, more in one month... Second, very best non-upsampling digital gear is(or one of) ARC REF CD7(and CD3MkII is also non-upsampling). You both should try to audition it. I would even say that ARC REF CD7 is more enjoyable in some areas than my reference Weiss Medea/Jason combo. I currently have Accustic Arts DAC1Mk3(Balanced)/Drive1MkII combo on trail and I can say that Teajay's description of AA combo sonics was right on the spot. For the money it is excellent buy but, it is IMO not better then ARC CD REF7. And I have to say that Weiss combo is well, a lot better. But, since Weiss combo cost more than two times more it must be better! Anyway, in normal price range(read till $15K) Accustic Arts DAC1Mk3/Drive1MkII combo deserves highest respect. Other excellent contenders are ARC REF CD7,Esoteric X-01 and Audio Aero Prestige SACD. Teajay, Accustic Arts combo is IMO worth extra price over also very good Accustic Arts Player1MkII! |
Teajay, I'll try and answer your 3 questions: 1) Did you have have the chance to audition the Audiomat reference Dac which does not upsample? Not yet, but I will try and get that one in. 2) Did you audition the AA DAC1mk3 with the Sextet or did you have to return it before you got the Stealth cable? The latter; but I will be sure to do so before moving in another direction. 3) If you liked the non-upsampling DAC would you attempt to audition DACS from Audio Note or Zanden? I really want to hear the Zanden in my system but it is pretty much impossible to do so where I live. I'm so anxious to try it that I'm having a hard time not buying it without hearing it first (always a bad idea). If someone wanted to trade me a 5000 LE for my DCC2 I would probably go for it (another bad idea). |
Branimir, I will find it very interesting what your experience of the Stealth Sextet cable will be in your systems. At this point some people would have to think I own stock in the Stealth company because I'm always sharing my excitement about the virtues of the Sextet cable. Well, let's see what happens when you audition it in the next couple of weeks. Would you be nice enough to share more specifically what you find are the differences between the Weiss front end and the Accustic Arts front end. I know already that the Weiss gear is more a type #1 flavor and the Accustic Arts a type #2 flavor, but what else do you hear that is different in the two digital front ends. Lastly, in your post you refer to the Accustic Arts transport as Drive1 MKII, is this a new generation of the orginial Drive1? If so, what changes did they make to the transport and does it sound significantly different/better then the first generation transport? I was not aware that Accustic Arts had made any changes in the Drive1 since it came out. As always, I will thank you in advance for any information that you will share with us. |
Teajay, I think you did very good job in sharing with us your opinion about Stealth. If this will help Stealth as the company-then be it! Weiss vs. Accustic Arts: Weiss combo is more powerful in bass(as I said before in bass Weiss and Esoteric combos are in class of their own), little bit more upfront in midrange(very,very small differences) and more extended in highs without sounding bright. The biggest difference were in microdymanics(and level of microdymanics details), simply said you can here a lot more through Weiss combo. Also my wife said that music sound faster through Weiss... Accustic Arts is warmer(but, not to much!), little bit easier on ears and for me it has some kind of charm that I like a lot! To my suprise my friend(the one who owns Accustic Arts Player1MkII) also liked Weiss more-IHO Weiss has more analogue like qualities then Accustic Arts! Regarding Drive1 it is normal version(my mistake, it is not MkII) but, I was very suprised how picky it was about power cords! Very best sound was with Siltech Signature G6 and Accustic Arts own Power Cord Ferrite II(DAC1Mk3 was not that picky about power cords...). Unfortunately, because of new car delivery no CES for me this year but, my brother is there right now and I will have his first report this afternoon. Teajay, do you have any(sonic or whatever) info about new Stealth Dream speaker cable and power cord? Thank you in advance! |
Branimir, regarding your question on the new Stealth speaker cable and power cord, I must admit my ignorance concerning them. However, I will check in with one of my audiophile advisers, who happens to be a Stealth dealer, after the CES show which he is now attending, and then let you know what I find out regarding these products. |
Exlibris: sorry to lose you from SACD! personally I love the format though titles....ah well. One thing though on Meitner. Not sure if u have done so but at least in my exp CSDC is whole league above the midofied Philips transport and has real synergy w/ the DCC2. Using the Stealth btwn the two I think is doable but not sure if it would carry the DSD signal directly but also very importantly may lose the ability to slave transport to the DCC2 which I beleive blocks jitter but whatever the case sounds a WHOLE lot better than not doing so. Of course I have no idea who CDSD + DCC2 via optical glass link would compare on redbook CDs to some other combos you are investigating using Stealth as the link...However on its won redbook is very very good in this sort of set up: IMO perfer to dcS but also other redbook only set ups I have auditioned ...the thing I never tried are the Stealth cables which all of you guys luv. Anyway good luck on your search. For transports...I would recommend trying Esoteric and Metronome as well....the level of mechanical engineering appears to be outstanding to me, another notch above most others... |
Henry, Short of actually buying the CDSD, I'm not going to be able able to hear one in my system. I find it hard to commit to the CDSD when the combination of the Accustic Arts Drive 1 and EMM DCC2 is so disappointing in my system. Though the Philips/DCC2 combo was better, there was always a 'ringing' on transients that I believe may be caused by the digital filters in the DCC2. In addition, the midband was recessed and there was less layering in the depth dimension when compared to the 'NoNo' DAC that I have in my sytem right now. It is my suspicion that upsampling and other processing techniques done in the digital domain have an addvers effect on timing cues and phase integrity. Thanks very much for your input on the various tranports. |
Some interesting new digital gear from CES: Esoteric D-03/P-03 combo(CD/SACD) $25000 Esoteric X-01Limited $13500(old X-01 can be upgraded) Esoteric UX-01Limited Esoteric X-03SE Esoteric UX-03SE Esoteric SZ-1(CD/SACD) Esoteric UZ-1(CD/SACD/DVD-A+V) Mark Levinson No.51(CD/DVD-V,limited edition-150units)$18K Bel Canto CD1 (CD) $5000 Very interesting thing is that my brother says in his email is stereo digital revival! At least dozen companies showed prototypes of new digital players for introduction later in 2006... It seems that High-end industry is live and well... |
Guidocorona- it looks like the D-03 will not covert DSD to PCM as in the current Esoteric lineup. It will be using the Analog Devices AD 1955 DAC chip. I'm not sure if the transport in the P-03 is new or not. The X-01 Limited has some minor changes- nothing major. If you Google "Esoteric P-03 or D-03"" there will be a link to the Esoteric website in Japan. Use the translate link and you can get a decent amount of information, although the translation isn't perfect. I would like to get some info from members who saw and heard the units at CES. |
Guido, as Fsarc said D-03 is using new Analog Devices AD1955 dacs(D-01 is using multi-bit BB PCM1704). But, will it not convert DSD to PCM as stated on Soundstage CES report needs to be seen. I have PDF file about new D-03/P-03 combo and things there are not clear about it... Also look at the AD1955 diagram at Analog Devices web site... P-03 is using same VRDS-NEO transport as P-01, only in single chassis. And as Fsarc pointed out changes in X-01Limited are small. According to my brother(who is still currently in LV) Esoteric system build around Aerial 20T speakers was very good sounding. One other thing all new Esoteric gear will be available in USA at least two months before Europe... CE approval is the case! Real shame! |
Exlibris, does this mean that you have given up your quest to audition non-upsampling DACS for right now? That you finally decided that it would not be fair to change your Meitner Dac without first hearing how it would perform with its matching transport? Either way the Meitner gear is one of the best type #1 front ends around. Will you still use your Sextet balanced cable or do you think you will use the optical cable on redbook? |
Teajay, "does this mean that you have given up your quest to audition non-upsampling DACS for right now?" Yes; *for now*. I would have to take too big a hit in order to sell my DCC2 right now. There is a lot of used EMM stuff around. I'm still very interested in hearing the Zanden 5000 LE in my system, however. "That you finally decided that it would not be fair to change your Meitner Dac without first hearing how it would perform with its matching transport?" This is also true. I didn't want to have any regrets about what 'could have been.' "Will you still use your Sextet balanced cable or do you think you will use the optical cable on redbook?" I find it hard to believe that the optical cable will be better but I'll try both and just go with the one that sounds best. The DCC2 upsamples PCM to DSD so I'm not sure why it is beneficial to have the CDSD send anything other than PCM when playing Redbook. I should note that when it comes to audio my assumptions and preconceptions usually turn out to be wrong. I'll let you know how it all turns out. |
Exlibris, congrats on CDSD! I think that you made a right decision. Without CDSD you can not get full DCC2 potential. Also, connect CDSD with little orange optical cables first and audition your combo that way for a least few weeks. Then add balanced Sextet for RBCDs only and see what differences will be. In AES/EBU mode DCC2 will not(I think) upsample PCM signal to DSD, some EmmLabs owners actually prefer to listen to RBCDs that way(they use optical connection-recommended by Meitner-only for SACD). Since I wont be able to audition Meitner gear very soon( I will get them late February...) I am looking forward in your small review... Teajay, any new info on Stealth Dream speaker cable and power cord? Thanks! |
Right: I will send the PCM signal to the DCC2 via the AES/EBU. I will also send the clock signal to the DCC2 via a BNC. I will set the DCC2 to be the Master and the CDSD, the slave. The DCC2 will upconvert PCM from *any* tranport to 5.6488MHz DSD (according to the EMM Labs website). Since the AES/EBU cannot carry DSD, I will not be able to play SACDs with this hook up. I can use the ST Glass cables for this. |
Branimir, just got the information regarding Stealth's new "Dream" speaker wire and power cord. Both have just gotten into the Beta-testing process. The "Dream" speaker wire will retail for $10000.00 for a 2.5 meter pair. Did not get any information regarding the type of materials or design theory regarding either of these new products. I'm sure that both items will be very interesting regarding their performance and might be end up being as highly regarded as the Sextet and Indra wires. |
Henryhk, it will be very interesting too see what typ of connection will be best for RBCDs, at least in Exlibris opinion! Teajay, Thanks! I am very interested to audition whole Stealth system(Dream,Indra and Sextet) against my Siltech Signature G6 and Acrolink wires. If new Steath cables will be at Sextet level, then Stealth really did find out something new... |
Teajay, Sextet(two AES/EBU cables!) should be here till end of this week... New Krell EVO505(CD/SACD) player will be in my home in March(just after production begin). I have extremly high expectations about Krell since it is using CAST connection-it will perfectly fit in my system No.1, but, till sommer Krell is planning to introduce even more advanced Evolution Three(3 chassis) player. There were many different and interesting new digital gear at CES. I will try to audition new dCS DAC8e/T8e combo very soon-these two are more advanced version of P8i player. MBL introduced 1622 CD/SACD transport and their 1611E DAC is now having a SACD playback upgrade-another potential candidate for auditioning. Reference Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo will revisit my systems in few weeks-I am very interested in this combo, I will put it against my reference Weiss Medea/Jason combo and winner will stay in my home. In late February I will have EmmLabs DCC2/CDSD combo for auditioning-only thing that is not very moving about Meitner gear is their build quality, it is a huge step belove(specially CDSD) Esoteric or Weiss. In April Esoteric D-03/P-03/G-0s combo will be ready for Europe and, of course, I will try to get my hands on them... All in all, this will be interesting late winter time... For the end little bit of my current thinking-it seems to me that new digital players around $10K(ARC REF CD7,Krell EVO505, etc.) are closing the gap between them and digital combos around $20-25K. Performance between them should be night and day if we look at the price but, in reality they are IMO not that huge(and in some cases they are even not present or are very small)... Teajay, this weekend I again had Accustic Arts combo in my home and I was again impressed with thier performance. In that price range this is a combo to beat! |
