Gents,
I will received X-01 D2 next monday and after few weeks I will report my findings here.
In the mean time(or until Bill post his opinion) here is the link to Dagogo review, pretty decent one IMHO:
http://www.dagogo.com/EsotericX01D2.html |
Great thread, Teejay! I generally agree with your findings.
Since I never had a chance to audition EmmLabs combo in my system( only at audio show ) I will imagine that it is as good as people say. On the other hand I have excellent experience with Weiss Medea/Jason combo, IMO it is one of the best red book cd playback systems currently availabile.
But, is it #1 or #2? Well, maybe none of them since it combine some qualities of both. It has killer bass,excellent midrange articulation and presence, highs are extended but not agressive. With CEC transport Medea is #2 but, with Jason neither #1 or #2. Also there are new Esoteric gear D-01/P-01 or D-03/P-03( both can be combine with G0s external clock ), what about them? #1?
System synergy is the most important issue, IMO.
It doesn't mean that you can not have good result by combining warm speaker with warm amp/pre and warm dac.
Quite the opposite. Of course, results will vary from system to system... |
Hello,
This weekend I had a chance to audition Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo and DCS P8i player. Both in two different systems. First system was friends Avalon Eidolon Vision-ARC VT200MkII/REF2MkII/CD3MkII and we also had Weiss Medea/Jason combo acting as RBCD reference. It that system it was immediately clear that Esoteric and Weiss have a edge over DCS. Esoteric combo is #1 flavor but, probably the best #1 flavor sounding digital playback that I heard recently. Weiss is very close second( we are talking about very small differences here ). Esoteric has enormous amount of detail without edge or grain in sound picture. It also has 'powerfull' presentation with extended bass and treble.
Weiss is almost as extended in bass, has more midrange presence and is sweeter on top. DCS was not in the same class, it was thinner than Esoteric and Weiss in bass and midrange. Highs were extended( but, not as Esoteric ) and it didn't better even ARC CD3MkII a lot in RBCD playback.
In my 'office' system( Dynaudio Special 25-ARC VT50/REF1 ) results were almost the same... But, we used balanced outputs on all of them. Esoteric and Weiss sounded way better on XLRs and to our suprise DCS prefered single-ended RCA connection. All of them were used with preamp in system. We all will also have Esoteric D-03/P-03 soon as well as new Krell Evolution Three universal music player. ARC Reference CD7 is interesting as well.
I own more than 1000 CDs and only 20 SACDs so, I am not very interested in SACD. My feeling is that both SACD and DVD-A will become a failure( or allready are-specially DVD-A ). Of course, many of you will not share my opinion but, I would like to meet an audiophile who owns few hundreds SACDs or DVD-As... |
Jazzdude-I have Weiss Medea/Jason for almost 6 months now. They took more than a week of constant play to open up fully.
I am using high output setting but, sound of high/low setting depend more on preamp gain... In some systems low setting is better. The best sound is with Double XLR( AES/EBU ) connection between Medea and Jason, word lenght at 24bit and upsampling at 88.2kHz( I do not why but, 176.4kHz upsampling is not allways the best, it depend from cd to cd ). Also I tried Medea with other cd transports and IMO you can have 80% of its potential without Jason. I use Medeas balanced analogue outputs because to me they sound better. As I said before this combo is something like #1.5 flavor, half way between #1 and #2. I bought them for my future big system and they are here to stay. Esoteric combo( D-01/P-01/G-0s ) is also excellent but, very expensive. I would love to own it some day( together with Weiss!)... Weiss combo is within 1-2% of Esoteric combo and system synergy is here more important issue. BTW, Weiss combo simply 'crushed and burned' Esoteric DV50s in RBCD playback, it is that good.
I hope you enjoy your Weiss Hydra single / dual wire AES/EBU Interface, dejittering unit. |
Teajay, Accustic Arts Player I is the latest version( just came from Germany few days ago ). It is 24/192 and I hope that my friend made a good choice. Player is allready(20hours of listening) sounding good but, more next week... He also received Accustic Arts Power Cord Ferrite II with player(as a accessorie)-Do you have any experience with it(currently I use that one)? Usual break-in time for Accustic Arts? |
Jazzdude-Error in my response, in my system sound is also best in low setting( around 4.3V on XLRs ) output. Your comment regarding passive preamp is interesting...
If you use preamp with normal gain low setting is the way to go. Jason remote is a killer! Excellent build quality.
Teejay-Are you using Balanced or normal version Of Accustic Arts DAC I Mk3 and did you have a chance to compare both versions?
Musical Fidelity just introduced kW DM25 DAC and kW DM25 cd transport-they are also very interesting( I only hope that build quality on them is OK!)... |
Teejay-Thanks for info about Accustic Arts DAC1 Mk3, my friend is very interested about it. Stealth Varidig Sextet is very,very interesting product.Is it possible to give us little bit more of your findings about it? I need two 1m AES/EBU cables ( $3200/each ), they are expensive... I have Siltech Signature G6 Golden Ridge and I am pleased with it. Siltech also have better cable above-Golden Eagle which is also expensive. Currently I am experimenting with Acrolink 7N-DA6300 Mexcel AES/EBU( this cable is spectacular with Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo ), final results in few weeks.
BTW, infos in this thread are IMO better and more useful than most reviews( of digital gear) in mags. |
Good news for all CEC TL-0 fans, CEC just introduced TL-0x!
TL-0x in refinement of original TL-0. New one is available in silver color only. It should be available in Europe and Usa in limited quantities( 1st quarter of 2006 ). More is on www.cec-web.co.jp( Japanese web side ). Price-around $14K |
Esoteric D-03/P-03 combo is scaled down version of D-01/P-01 combo. It will be availabile in Europe and Usa in January 2006. Price-around 60% of D-01/P-01 combo. First auditioning reports from Japan are excellent. They said it is something like 90% of D-01/P-01 combo. Interesting thing is that over 90% of people in Japan who bought D-01/P-01 or D-03/P-03 also bought G-0s masterclock with them. I am in email contact with one Japanese reviewer, in his opinion D-03/P-03 combo is better buy then D-01/P-01 combo. Also I must say that build quality of all Esoteric gear is far better then most other stuff in this class. Only Weiss and Burmester can touch them in that regard...
BTW, Guido-give G-0s little bit more chance... With D-01/P-01 combo improvment was with red book CD playback and same typ of digital cable in system. |
Audioesq-Esoteric D-70/P-70 combo is #1 flavor. It is still excellent sounding gear but, in direct comparison with D-01/P-01/G-0s it was clear that new combo is better( in RBCDP). D-01/P-01/G-0s has more refined and little bit deeper bass, more presence in midrange( specially on male vocals ) and highs has even more extension and refinement.
My friend owns D-70/P-70 and is very happy with it but, even to him it was cleary that D-01/P-01/G-0s combo is better... He also had a chance to compare D-70/P-70 to new X-01 and for him differences were small( but, in X-01 favor!) so, he will keep D-70/P-70.
If you wan't little bit warmer sound you can add CEC TL-51x cd transport to D-70/P-70 combo. CEC TL-51 is not very expensive and it is warm sounding CDT.
D-70/P-70 is straight #1 flavor as possible but, very good sounding one. Also, sound of D-70/P-70 is best with active preamp in system( around 10-20% depending on preamp) than with Esoteric's volume control.
You can also read TeeJay's comments on CEC,Guidocorona's on X-01 and mine on D-01/P-01/G-0s.
Very important thing is price since D-70/P-70 is not any more availabile in Usa and Europe. If you fing it at very good price go for it. Build quality is far better them most of the other gear in this class.
Happy hunting! |
Teajay, thanks for break-in info regarding Accustuc Arts Player 1. It is allready nice sounding( better hour by hour!)-#2 flavor I think. It remind me to ARC CD3MkII that I sold. I suspect that both these player are best value in their price range( in RBCDP), together with Ayre CX7e. Ayre also have C-5xe universal stereo player, Krell is introducing Evolution Three statement level universal music only player at CES2006. Is this something new-worth looking for or just current fashion in industry? Your opinion please? |
Good question Teejay! My reference power cord is Siltech Signature G6 Ruby Hill and it is excellent sounding with Weiss Medea DAC and Weiss Jason CDT, much better than PS Audio Statement Power X-Stream that I previously used.
With Esoteric DV50s I use Acrolink 7N-PC7100.Also, I had a chance to try new Acrolink 8N-PC8100 with Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s and it is even better than 7N-PC7100. Strangely with Esoteric DV50s Acrolink has slight edge over Siltech but, with Weiss situation is reversed. In my home I use separated power lines for amps and preamp/dac/cdt. Preamp and dac are powered from dedicated 20A line, power amps from two dedicated 30A lines( my electrical guy thinks I am crazy!). I spend a lot of money for new in-wall power cables etc. Experience with Shunyata Hydra 8 was a strange one, sometimes it almost muted dynamics...
In my office I use PS Audio P500 and there it works well.
But, in general I have very mixed feelings about power conditioners... Good after market power cords are essential IMO to get the best out of our DACs/CDts or CDPs.
BTW, the biggest difference in my system are dedicated power lines. Once you have it, you can not live without it! |
Hi David. Glad you like Esoteric X-01, it is fantastic player! Regarding Meridian, IMHO introduction of 808 Signature( CD Player only!) was clear sign of DVD-A defeat.
I auditioned Meridian 800 V4 DVD-A/DVD-V/CD player and was not very impressed with RBCD playback performance-it is almost #2 flavor but, Audio Research was IMO better sounding player...Try to audition both Meridian's(808 and 800V4) for yourself. Also, new Mark Levinson No.51 is DVD-V/CD player only! So, when Levinson is introducing new flagship player for $15K without DVD-A( and SACD ) something is defnitely wrong with future of DVD-A( and maybe with SACD, too)... |
Elberoth2-I belive Jazzdax also tried Weiss Medea in his system... Regarding #1 or #2 flavor it is difficult question. I will try to explain-If Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo is #1 flavor( and one of the best combos on the market ) then Weiss Medea/Jason is something like #1.5 , I know it seems strange but, Weiss combo is definitely warmer sounding then Esoteric gear. Weiss has killer bass(in this regard only Esoteric combo was the same!), nice midrange presence(male vocals!) and extended highs(but, not as Esoteric!). Since Weiss is not favoring highs like some other combos( that are #1 flavor ) I think it could be #1.5 flavor. Or, call it #1 but, very close to #2 sound.
Reimyo DAP-777 which is very good #2 sounding dac is warmer than Weiss and IMO not so good sounding...
I bought Weiss combo and it is my reference-only other digital gear that I would like to own is new Esoteric combos, either D-01/P-01/G-0s or D-03/P-03/G-0s. |
Al, regarding price my guess is $15K in USA.
Since new X-01 D2 is really most exciting new digital player I am more then interested to audition it ASAP.
Also, my guess is that Esoteric will release updated version of flagship D-01/P-01(D-01 D2/P-01 D2???) pretty soon as well with further in-depth involvement with dual DACs(PCM1704/AD1955)...
BTW, price for new EMMLabs CDSA is $10K in USA. |
Teejay, I auditioned Ensemble Dirondo Player only-in my friends system. It was good sounding(#1 flavor) but, to me it sounded little bit thin in bottom octave. Unfortunately I didn't have a chance to audition Dirondo Drive that you are using. BTW, very nice build quality on Ensemble gear...
Just as I am writing this response I am listening new Accustic Arts Player 1(I am break-in unit for friend who bought it based on your of DAC 1MK3 review here on Agon!). More on Player 1 sound in one week time... Oh,I changed my amp from ARC VT50 to VT100MkIII( huge improvement ). Rest of the (office)system is Dynaudio Special 25,ARC REF1MkII and Esoteric DV50s. Weiss combo is in my reference system-more on that in one month( all new gear system ).
Regarding Stealth-I live in Europe but, I will be in the USA most of the January 2006 so, I will try to get one...
I hope we will keep this great thread alive and well for at least near future!
Kana813-I am very glad that you mentioned Esoteric P-0, latest version P-0s VUK is something like a living myth among Japanese reviewers and audiophiles. P-0s VUK features double AES/EBU( for 192kHz ) and is available only in Japan( do not ask about the price!). |
Exlibris-CEC on European market also has TL2-SL version(with CEC link to connect to DX-71MkII dac). I heard that new version of TL2 might be introduced early next year...
BTW, price for TL-0x in USA is $17500! TL51x is $1290 and IMO it is the best offer in sub $3K area. It is a very good choice as starting transport for Reimyo DAP-777( together they cost around $6500 ). What DAC are you using( or plan to use?)? |
Exlibris-I heard that EMM Labs DCC2( it is a excellent dac!) is picky about transport connection and is best sounding with CDSD. Regarding problems with AES/EBU on TL51, maybe is lock window on DCC2 is too narrow for TL51.
One option(expensive one) is to buy CDSD for SACD/CD and used CEC TL-1x(around $2200 here on Agon) for CD playback only. Some people do that... Since you wan't to 'simplify' for personal reasons it is difficult to give 'good' suggestion... If you wan't to change from #1 flavor(DCC2) to #2 flavor that is completly different story. DCC2, even with CEC transport will stay #1 flavor. Maybe Teejay could help here more...? |
Teejay-TL-0x is having new laser(old one were having some problems with CD-R/CD-RWs...) and updated power supply, of course, color is silver-it is made in Japan. I saw TL-2SL together with DX71MkII is person and they are also made in Japan( there is clear 'Made in Japan' sign at the back ).
This combo sound very nice, BTW. #2 flavor if somebody is interested... Regarding TL-51x casework is probably produced in PRC( People Republic of China ) but, drive is made in Japan. Low retail price issue I think...
Also, warning regarding AES/EBU connection-some CEC transport use PIN 3 positive( AES standard is PIN2 positive )so it will invert digital phase.
Check out Metronome Kalista cd transport http://www.metronome-technologie.com/ it could be interested for you... |
Teajay, I agree with you 100%. My feeling is that we will stay with RBCD as a main format for at least 5 years time.
As I said before in this thread I would love to meet audiophile who owns few hundreds SACDs or DVD-As( I have 20 SACDs and 2 DVD-As). Sometimes I do not understand when people here on Agon are raving about DVD-A and they based thier findings only on one DVD-A disc which they were using for comparison! BTW, I heard excellent sounding DVD-As and SACDs but, if something really astonishing will not happen in the near future both of them are ment to fail...
Only good thing is the recordings are better and better and new digital gear also. I recently compare Wadia 850( ca. 1997) to friends Ayre CX-7e and Ayre was better in every respect-progress I guess... |
Teajay, I post my impression about dCS P8i on 10-25-05 on this thread. I will repeat that I was a bit disappointed with its sonics. As I explained before it was as HIFI+ review said mixed bag. Weiss Medea/Jason combo and Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo were a lot better than P8i( truth, at a price!). In fact, IMO Esoteric X-01 is better choice then P8i, specially for RBCDP. One other thing is that HIFI+ review is positive suprise because IMO reviewer was very honest in his findings.
Didn't had a chance to audition Ayre C-5xe yet but, my friend who owns CX-7e thinks it is excellent player.Only one thing-is it better than CX-7e in RBCDP?? |
Exlibris, I never audition EMMLabs DCC2 or Accustic Arts DAC I Mk3(Teajay could help here...) in my system. I am currently breaking-in Accustic Arts Player1 for my friend and it is very liquid sounding player but, with PRAT and nice bottom end! DAC I Mk3 could only be better...
I hate to say it but, my Weiss Medea/Jason combo is in different league( from Accustic Arts Player1), Weiss combo is simply more organic sounding and has more integrated response right through the whole frequency range. Weiss is IMO in the same class as EMMLabs DCC2/CDSD combo in RBCDP-personal preferences here are main choice here...
Regarding transports-Weiss Medea is sounding very best with Weiss Jason. With other transports you can reach up 80% of Medea's sonic potential(IMO, same is with EMMLabs DCC2 if you use it without CDSD). I tried CEC TL-1x and sound become warmer but, losses in PRAT and bass extension and definition were to big to my ears. Theta Carmen II(DVD transport) was better in bass but, sound stage was shorter and more compact. But, these sonic remarks are more clear to me then even to some of my friends... Few days ago my friend(the one who bought AA Player1) droped by to listen to my system. I was having CEC TL-1x connected to Weiss Medea alongside Weiss Jason. First we listen Medea with CEC and he was very impressed but, when we switched to Jason he simply freaked-out! He said that it was best digital that he ever heard(he also own SME20/SME5 turntable)and that he hopes that AA Player1 will be good enough for him... Analog fanatic become digital beliver!
Medea is excellent dac but, with Jason it is 20% better.
Simply said, with Jason I am enjoying Medea even more! |
BTW, there is preview of CEC TL-0x on 6moons web page. This preview is.... well, read it anyway. Other news is that CEC will probably have new version of either TL-1 or TL-2 at the beginning of 2006. |
Exlibris, I am glad that we could help... Your specific problem is not unique-it remined me to the sound of dCS P8i player(thin and sometimes too tight in the bass). I am not saying that you should give up from your EMMLabs DCC2-far from it. CDSD is probably the best solution and you can add CEC(used TL-1x or new TL-51x) as a second transport.
Also, maybe you have some cable issues-what cables are you using all the way through out your system?
Weiss combo is very energetic sounding and is having best bass that I heard from digital so far( only best Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo was that powerful in bass) but, it is #1 flavor(although I think rather #1.5). |
Exlibris-You really should audition CDSD, it may be the only ticket to get the sound that you wished for. Regarding problems that you have with AES/EBU connection with CEC TL-51x it is a proof that DCC2 is picky about transports that are used with it.
If you will not get what you wan't with CDSD than , I am afraid that you will need another(different sounding for sure) DAC... But, you really need to try CDSD in your system. This is a must for you! |
Teajay, after reading your post about Martin De Wulf's comments regarding Weiss Medea I was almost reluctant to write any comment. But, here we are so: 1) His findings could be the result of using 'high' output level switch-it maybe overloaded his preamp($2.5K Headphone pre!!)... 2) He was using some kind of illegal substance during review period(...more likely). 3) There is a great suspicion that he actually listem to Medea in his system.
De Wulf's comments remined me in recent 'trash' review of Wilson speakers-that 'wizard' didn't even listen to Maxx II in his system but, he trashed them anyway and we have a thread about that here on Agon.
Kalman Rubison and John Atkison(Stereophile),Jimmy Hughes(HIFI+), reviewers of german Audio Mag, dozen of people from recording industry and many audiophiles(including myself) are all crazy because we all like Medea(and Jason) very much and consider it as a one of the best digital playback systems(RBCD) on the market.
Let me give you few quotes from wonderful review in HIFI+(issue 35) by Jimmy Hughes:
He wrote ˝The music sounded vivid and lucid, yet at the same time very natural and belivebile. It was a winning combination: impressive fine detail and sharpness, allied to an attractive smoothness and naturalness. Put in simpler more basic terms, it sounded right. Tonally, the music sounded beautifully balanced-sharp and tactile, while at the same time smooth and integrated. Difficult things-like massed violins, solo voices, massed choral forces-had a difficult-to-describe rightness that struck me as being wholly natural and authentic. ... The Weiss DAC magically tamed the brightness/hardness without losing brilliance and immediacy. ... Medea was sweeter , mellower, with a more analogue sort of reproduction-sounded even more natural, and belivebile. It sounded realistic, and very easy to listen to. The Medea produced a truly 'big' sound; quite awesomely huge.˝
Pretty much opposite from 'wizard' form BFS.
I will continue to enjoy my Weiss combo very much!
Regarding BFS, best of luck to them! Maybe these 'Wizards' will return to Oz someday... |
I share Teajay's interest in Audiomat Reference dac and I would like to know if anyone have a experience with Metronome C2A Signature DAC? Metronome Kalista Reference is also something that I would like to audition(together with C2A Signature), this is the only cd transport with battery power supply(!!) in the world. Reviewers in Japan are crazy about that combo but, price is very high:C2A Signature-Euro 20000, Kalista Reference-Euro 40000!
I heard only the best about Metronome( unfortunately, they are not currently present in USA market)... |
Kops, more on new Audio Research Reference CD7 in few weeks...
Exlibris, regarding the future of digital audio-I belive that something else rather than hard-drives will replace cd transports. But, I will stop here because this thread is about RBCDP.
Only one very suprising thing: At CES2006 we will see introduction of at least dozen new DACs/Transport's/CDPs or Universal Music(only!) player's. So, what is this? Return of RBCD or what?
Point is that RDCDP is far from death, like it or not...
Few words about new Accustic Arts Player1(24/192)-it is organic,smooth but, with PRAT and nice bottom end. It better's my Esoteric DV50s in RBCDP(but, to my suprise-differences are not that big) and bulid quality is very good. Only problem is the price-unfortunately I think it is too high... Competition in this price range($4k-$8K) is huge:Audio Research CD3MkII,Ayre CX7e or C-5xe,Cary CD303/300 or CD306,Esoteric X-03 just to name a few...
New ARC REF CD7 is $8995 and it is maybe the most interesting new player on the market( and excellent sounding-#2 flavor but, wow! More in few weeks...), price difference to Player1(24/192)is just $1K.
My point is not that Player1(24/192) is bad choice, far from it! It is excellent player but, if you want best possible Accustic Arts sound go for DAC1Mk3/Drive1 combo. I belive it is worth the extra money over Player1(24/192) and it is using more sophisticated dac's inside as well as some other things unique to them.
Today, we insert Player1 to my friends system and he is very happy with it. I told him my honest opinion about Player1 and he told me:'Ok, but, for 90% of audiophiles Player1 will be the reference stuff!' |
Fcrowder, I am glad that you liked Esoteric UX-1 player and as Guido said X-01 is better... Also, Shunyata power cords are working excellent with Esoteric players, specially new Anaconda Helix Vx. But, IMO even better results are possible with Acrolink Mexcel cables, their power cord 7N-PC7100 is awsome(Esoteric sells Acrolink Mexcel in Japan).
Exlibris, I heard that very best sound of Accustic Arts combo is via AES/EBU connection(and a good one!) so, your setup unfortunately may have shortcoming... Alternative is BNC connection and give it at least 300hours before second critical listening session. Did you get CDSD? |
Teajay, price of new Accustic Arts Player1MkII(24/192) is $7700-check on http://www.aaudioimports.com/ New price is IMO little bit to high... Price of DAC1Mk3 is $6K and Drive1 is $5.5K so, I would definitely go for this combo over Player1MkII, despite price difference.
Regarding new ARC REF CD7, yes, I bought one. I am using it in my system No.2-Sonus Faber Amati Anniversario/ARC REF210/ARC REF3/ARC REF CD7 with Weiss Medea/Jason acting like a guest star! Speakers and ARC gear are new( I receive them one week ago) and they have only 150hours of playing. Until 500hours break-in time point no long comments.. But, allready I can say that Anniversario's with ARC gear was amazing choice! ARC REF CD7 is definitely more emotionally involving player them my beloved Weiss combo.
Also, I can say that my favorites in #1 flavor group are: Esoteric(X-03,X-01,D-70vu/P-70vu,D-03/P-03/G-0s and D-01/P-01/G-0s) gear and Weiss Medea/Jason combo; in #2 flavor: ARC CD3MkII and REF CD7, Accustic Arts Player1MkII and DAC1MK3/Drive1 combo and Cary CD303/300. There are(and there are more to come!) many other very good dac/cdt combos and players on the market but, these are my personal favorites. |
Teajay, thanks for compliments. I own pharmaceutical business with my wife(she is very supportive, she also likes music and high-end audio!) and we own big house.
Regarding ARC REF CD7, I ordered unit together with REF210/REF3 but, I made an agreement with my dealer that I will pay REF CD7 only if I like it after long listening session. Well, I allready like it very much and I decided that I will buy it. I agree with you 100% that any purchase without in-home auditioning is crazy! ARC CD REF7 is first piece of gear that I decided to audition in my home without any previous reports about its sonics and I didn't regret it! My dealer is usually very supportive regarding in-home auditioning(and,IMO he must be!) and I never pay him a penny before my final decision about purchase.
BTW, you have excellent system and my best friend likes your reviews very much( Accustic Arts Player1MkII owner)! |
Exlibris, Your point about 'system synergy' is very good one. This weekend I will put ARC REF CD7 against Weiss combo in my No.1 system as you suggested. I will also add Esoteric DV50s from my office system because I want to see how good are SACD/DVD-A( I borrowed some very good SACDs and DVD-As) but, also to see how will it hold up against ARC and Weiss...
BTW, what model of MBL speakers are you owning? |
This evening my dealer has 'Digital Day', there will be a comparison between dCS Elgar Plus/Verona/Verdi Encore(new version)-EMMLabs DCC2/CDSD-Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s and Weiss Medea/Jason. Rest of the system is W/P7 and Pass X350.5/X0.2 combo with all Shunyata wires. I will report results tomorrow. Happy Thanksgiving to all people from USA. |
Teajay, when I choose gear for my two systems primal goal was to create two excellent but, different sounding systems. No.1 system is simply breathtaking sounding, it is illuminating(not bright!) with best extension is bass and treble that I ever heard. Soundstage is biggest that I heard so far with excellent focus and detail(for the first time I have a feeling that I am in the Jazz club listening to Coltrane live!). Music has holographic presentation, without any sign of grain! It is almost sweet sounding but, with huge drama. Also, it has the best 'silence' behinde the soundstage. Microdynamics are amazing as are macrodynamics. PRAT are in the league of their own...
No.2 System is more easier on ears(legato) sounding. Warmer balanced with more midrange presence(but, this is a pleasing coloration-I am aware of that!) and not so much bass extension or tightness. PRAT is very good , rather than excellent and details are not presented in that surgical precision...
Both systems are eqally excellent with music types that I use to listen-classic,jazz and rock. No.1 system is definitely bringing me closer to live music! On the other hand No.2 system is probably more enjoyable on long listening sessions(but, live concerts last only few hours tops, so...). If I had to choose only one between these two? No.1 without any question but, I am very lucky that I do not have to do that!
My inner mood is almost allways leading me to one system or the other.
'Soultrane' is breathtaking on both of my systems and better then anywhere else I heard it(except those lucky one who were able to enjoy John live!)!
More info with pictures on my system thread in few months... |
'Digital' session at my dealer's was long and interesting one. But, keep in mind that my findings are based on dealer's system, not mine. First we listen to EMMLabs and it sounded clean,nicely balanced with very good PRAT. Highs were very extended but, bass were not deep as I expected(it was very tight). dCS sounded very similar to EMMLabs! dCS has more midrange presence(but, differences were very small) and could be even lighter in bass. Esoteric has excellent bass(better then EMMLabs and dCS) and PRAT. It is more energetic sounding then former two.
To my ears it bettered EMMLabs and dCS in every respect(to my big suprise!). Weiss is something like mixture of EMMLabs and Esoteric with extra 'power'. It has excellent bass(but, more 'digital' sounding then Esoteric) and is definitely more energetic sounding then EMMLabs and dCS.
If I had to choose one it will be Esoteric-highest price,best sound and build quality. Regarding build quality-Esoteric is first,Weiss very close second,dCS third and EMMLabs fourth.
All these combos are #1 flavor but, they are clearly different sounding(variations in #1 flavor group). I understand now clearly why some people find EMMLabs as the current leader in digital playback. I agree with them to some degree... Our personal preferences will allways lead us to our final choice.
All of them are excellent and they are current edge of the art in digital playback!
Rich, I will audition MBL 1531 cd player in my systems in one week time. Then I will report my findings. |
Exlibris, I feel it is little bit to early for final opinion on ARC REF CD7... I bought the unit but, until 500hours of playing(break-in) no long comments. It is #2 flavor and I allready like it very much. |
Teajay, I will try to compare Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo in my system No.1 with my Weiss Medea/Jason combo.
Also I am interested in new Krell Evolution Three universal music player(three pieces-transport,dac and power supply) which is using Krell cast connection. It will be introduced at CES2006 and in showrooms in next spring.
Since it was my former pair of W/P7 that dealer used for demo I was pleasently suprised with sonics. Pass X350.5/X0.2 sounded excellent with W/P7 bringing warmth to Wilson sound but, with very good bass control and extension. Your review is spot-on in describing X350.5 sound quality! In its price range(and above!) it is one of the best stereo SS amps available. I hope that you agree with me. In fact I think that new X.5 series is very good choice for small Wilson's(new Duette,Sophia2 or W/P7).
Although sound was very good it was not as good as sound of my systems... I am curious about new Pass XA60(maybe for my office system)? Do you know anything about thier sonics? |
Rajko, comparison between Weiss combo, ARC REF7 and Esoteric DV50s was last night in my No.1 System with following results: To my suprise it was hard battle between ARC and Weiss. Weiss is more energetic, with more PRAT. ARC has more midrange presence and very sweet but, sky high extended treble. In bass ARC was close to Weiss(and Weiss is one of the best in that regard!) and was able to beat it in sheer musical pleasure. ARC has 300hours of listening and it will continue to improve but, allready it is the best #2 flavor machine that I heard so far. If the Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo is the best #1 flavor(Weiss combo close second) then ARC REF CD7 is very close to them in absolute music satisfaction! And, I am very glad that ARC didn't put 'REFERENCE' on CD7 for nothing. I used Esoteric DV50s just to see how will it compare with SACD/DVD-A against Weiss and ARC with RBCDs.
I will say that I need to do more comparison between formats for final conclusion. Esoteric DV50s is good player but, if you will listen only RBCDs there are better choices... |
Treemed67-Rajko, I have Esoteric DV50s almost one year now. I am enjoying it very much in my office system, it is good #1 flavor player. But, it is not the best RBCD playback for the money. Weiss combo and ARC REF CD7 are a lot better then DV50s with RBCDs! There are IMO only two players(universal) that are better then DV50s in $5-8K region. These are: Ayre C-5xe(universal stereo music player, NO DVD-V or without video section!) and Esoteric UX-3. Accustic Arts Surround Player is little bit to expensive($9K)... Esoteric UX-3 is better then DV50s in every respect so, if price is not the issue go for UX-3.
Esoteric gear benefites very much from after market power cords and all of them have very long break-in period(up to 1000h!!).
Exlibris, I audition Reimyo DAP-777 and Audio Aero Prestige SACD player is currently in my system. My findings are that ARC REF CD7 is better then both of them.
AA Prestige is very good and is sounding very best via its internal preamp but, ARC REF3 and ARC REF CD7 together are IMO a Lot better... More midrange magic, better bass(big suprise!) and more natural high frequency, to my ears.
Prestige is at $13K very good choice(internal preamp-a good one) but, its preamp section is not in the same league as ARC REF3 and even just as a players I like ARC REF CD7 more. Prestige player is also not very user friendly... I did not audition Zanden in my system( just at hifi shows) and Kondo KSL-DAC is very interesting dac...
Audio Note(UK) gear do not interest me. Need to audition Accustic Arts combo that you are currently break-in in your system. |
This weekend I auditioned MBL 1531 cd player in both of my systems. Unit was having around 600hours of playing so, break-in was not the issue... 1531 is good sounding #2 flavor player-good bass extension and definition, little bit forward lower midrange and almost sweet highs. But, in comparison with ARC REF CD7 things were not so good... CD7 has more authority, its bass is deeper and tighter(suprise!), midrange more organic and highs sweeter, yet extended. Very clearly CD7 was a winner over 1531. Weiss combo was simply in another league(honestly, I think CD7 is also). After that I called my friend and we brought MBL 1531 to his system(Krell Resolution1/FPB450Mcx/KCT) against Accustic Arts Player1MkII. It was more closer race but, again both of us clearly liked Accustic Arts Player1MkII better. MBL 1531 is good player(also excellent build quality) but, competitors like those mentioned above are better, IMHO.
My current single box #2 flavor favorites are Audio Aero Prestige SACD and Audio Research Reference CD7. For gear that is better than those two you need to spend at least $20K, IMO. |
Exlibris, really tough one!
Answer is not a simple one... It will very much depend on the rest of the system. Example 1. Audio Aero Prestige is excellent choice(in #2 flavor group) if you do not have enough money for(or simply do not need) preamp. Add amp like Pass X350.5 or Plinius SA Reference and Anniversario's and you have almost a killer system. Example 2. In my system No.2 ARC REF CD7 sounds more emotionally involving then Weiss combo... But, in my system No.1 Weiss has edge over ARC REF CD7.
Overall:
1.Weiss(second place in #1 group, first is Esoteric combo)
2.ARC REF CD7(first in #2 group, excellent value for price)
3.Audio Aero Prestige(second in #2 group, amazing value) |
Exlibris, you can try Manley Wave as possible replacment for your Hovland HP200. Also, what about DCC2 without pre(use its internal pre)? Any downsides(I have never listen to DCC2 without pre)? Jadis is very #2 flavor sounding gear, try it if you can.
Otherwise I agree with Teajay. |
Fcrowder, I agree with you. Einstein Pre is very good and interesting preamp but, it is a fully balanced design. It can be used with single-ended amps and source gear as you pointed out in your system thread but, it will sound very best via balanced connection(as will all truly balanced gear). Point is what Exlibris needs? Balanced or single-ended pre? |
Exlibris, I agree with Teajay on Reimyo DAP-777MkII. So, you compared Audio Aero Prestige SACD against your DCC2?
Your findings? I have Prestige SACD for two weeks now and do not know what to do... To buy it or not for my office system? IMO it is not as good as ARC REF CD7(and definitely not in the same class as Weiss or Esoteric combos) and to me at least it is not the most user friendly piece of gear. |
Exlibris, your description of RBCD sound of Prestige SACD is allmost the same as mine. But, to my ears it felt short in bass power(and tightness), midrange coherence and details in highs compared to ARC REF CD7.
Were you using Prestige SACD directly(with its internal pre) or with HP200? |
Exlibris, I did audition EMMLabs DCC2/CDSD only at dealers but, after CES I will have it and Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo in both of my systems for at least two weeks...
In spring Esoteric will also have 'smaller' D-03/P-03/G-0s combo as well and there will be some other interesting digital gear that I want to audition...
Audio Aero Prestige SACD is very good #2 flavor player but, currently I want best possible #1 flavor digital gear for my system No.1! Maybe new Krell Evolution Three will be a good candidate... |
Henrykh, dCS,EMMLabs and Lindemann are only digital gear(so far?) that do not convert SACD signal to PCM for SACD playback. Audio Aero, Esoteric and some others convert SACD signal(digitally) into PCM for SACD playback.
Why?? Well, there is no simple answer but, my friend from Japan said in his email to me that reason is best possible RBCD playback. Designers at those companies(AA,Esoteric etc.) belive that it is possible to achive best sound in RBCDP only if complete digital part is done in PCM. Who is right or wrong?? Nobody!! EMMLabs gear(and dCS) is designed with SACD in the mind of their designers as a prime digital format... Now, we all know that SACD is not successor of RBCD! Interesting thing is that all these gear(Audio Aero,Esoteric,EMMLabs and dCS) sound excellent with RBCDs(and SACDs). And let me tell you one other thing... Few months ago I had a chance to audition prototype of CD/DVD-A music player only in similar system to my(No.1) against EMMLabs combo. End result? DVD-A player wiped out the floor with EMMLabs gear!!! To my biggest suprise!!
But, since DVD-A is dead this player will never go into the production. It only will exist as 'techo freak showpiece' about potential of DVD-A...
Now, lets go back to RBCDP! |
Teajay, I have that TAS(electronic subsrciption) and Mr.Cordesman review is excellent(better IMO then also excellent review of Evolution's in HifiNews by M.Colloms) and I expect same kind of style when he will review Krell LAT-1000 in few issues(I allready know that he liked them a lot!)...
Mr.Cordesman is one of my favorite reviewers and I like his writing very much.
What do you think about article about new digital formats? |
Exlibris, Do you really belive that everything that John Potis said in his review is the whole truth? First, we do not know was he using Zero One Ar38 dac or his Audio Aero Prima SE(both, IMO are middle of the road pieces). Second, Green Day "American Idiot" as reference music to compare cd transports? Come on! I am personally not interested in Zero One gear but, wait for(at least) one REAL review in Stereophile and TAS. It will be very interested will they be interested to review it and will reviews be so positive as one on 6moons and Positive feedback...
Better one, try to compare it to EMMLabs CDSD with your DCC2. You will see that CDSD will wipe out the floor with ZeroOne transport(if you will use DCC2 dac). I bet on it! |
Exlibris, very nice review of Stealth cable! I will try to get two of them in January... I see that you are thinking about Weiss Medea? Few tips from me: very long break-in period(500hours), you need excellent power cord and with cheeper cd transport you can have up to 80% of its potential( full 100% is only with Weiss Jason cdt and double AES/EBU connection)...
Merry Christmas to all of you and all the best in new year!
Branimir |
