Teajay and Branimir, thanks.
I responded in detail but it doesn't look like it has appeared in the thread for some reason? |
Exlibris, I am glad that we could help... Your specific problem is not unique-it remined me to the sound of dCS P8i player(thin and sometimes too tight in the bass). I am not saying that you should give up from your EMMLabs DCC2-far from it. CDSD is probably the best solution and you can add CEC(used TL-1x or new TL-51x) as a second transport.
Also, maybe you have some cable issues-what cables are you using all the way through out your system?
Weiss combo is very energetic sounding and is having best bass that I heard from digital so far( only best Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo was that powerful in bass) but, it is #1 flavor(although I think rather #1.5). |
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I use Acoustic Zen "Absolute" cables. I've tried some 'bass rich' cables but found them to be wanting in other areas.
I use the EMM Labs "ST Glass" optical connection between my digital stuff. I suppose I could use other cables but then I would be using my transport's clock rather than my DAC's clock. |
I should note that I'm not necessarily looking for powerful bass; what I want is more low-frequency "energy" and detail so that the bottom of my soundstage becomes "visible". In other words, I want to be able to "see" what floor-covering material was used in the venue where the recording took place. |
Exlibris-You really should audition CDSD, it may be the only ticket to get the sound that you wished for. Regarding problems that you have with AES/EBU connection with CEC TL-51x it is a proof that DCC2 is picky about transports that are used with it.
If you will not get what you wan't with CDSD than , I am afraid that you will need another(different sounding for sure) DAC... But, you really need to try CDSD in your system. This is a must for you! |
You're absolutely right. I need to hear the CDSD in my system. |
Hi, to both Branimir and Exlibris, I agree with your conclusion regarding using the CDSD transport to really see if you will get the sound you are seeking out of your Meitner DAC. My friend who uses the CEC TL-0, prefers this on redbook, had to send his TL-0 to be re-calibrated by Meitner so that his DAC would lock on to the CEC TL-0. I also found it interesting, Exlibris, that you also run Acoustic Zen Absolute wire in your system, I do too, and think its wonderful wire. Do you use both the IC's and speaker wire? If not, what else do you use in your system? Branimir, I just got my new, BOUND FOR SOUND, newsletter, its written by Martin G. DeWulf who's based in Kewanee, Illinois. Mr. DeWulf did a review on the Weiss Medea DAC, not the Jason transport, and came to some very bizarre conclusions about its voiceing and performance that I think you would get a kick out of. His newsletter is one of the rags I read for shear "entertainment/pleasure" not useful information, I don't take any of the reviewers seriously, but thought if you get a copy of his newsletter it would tickle your funny bone regarding the Medea DAC. |
Teajay,
I use Absolute ICs and speaker wire. I also use Harmonix PCs.
I appreciate your choice in speakers as well. It looks like we are after the same sound.
The following is completely off-topic...
I'm not one to rave about any components (I have never done so on this forum or any other) but I feel compelled to extol the virtues of the Sound Application Reference Linestage (AC device) that I just purchased. I have tried the Equi=tech; IsoClean; Harmonix; etc., etc.; I even tried running my entire system off batteries (it worked really well, by the way) but nothing has even come close to the performance of this product. It has absolutely transformed my system. It is stunning. I catch myself smiling and shaking my head at the new level of performance of my system. I haven't tried everything out there so I am hesitant to say that there is nothing better...what the heck "this is the BEST AC conditioner ever made!" Everything I've tried (except the battery unit) is -incredibly- inferior. I cannot overstate the magnificence of this product.
To put it in perspective: Earlier this year I changed amps. I was using a $1,00, 125 wpc, solid state, stereo, Audio Refinement amp from Taiwan (I had sold my Rowland amp to buy speakers and this was all I had in the house). I now use four Manley Neo-Classic 250 monoblocks. This change was not as significant as the change made by the Sound Application Reference Linestage. I'm not exagerating and I have no financial interest in the Sound Application company.
One caveat: The electricity where I live is horrid and I am plagued by RFI and EMI. Others may not experience such a profound change.
End of rave|
Can you post some of DeWulf's bizarre conclusions about the Weiss, or contact me off-list? What is his reference digital front end? |
Exlibris
I second your feelings about Sound Application. I too use one and am amazed at how well it performs
Jim Weil, the owner of Sound Application has been to my house to set mine up and we did several a/b tests with what I was using vs his. The results were staggering.
Jim makes each device himself. His wife who is an electrical engineer and graduate of Annapolis does all of the design work.
If there is a shortcoming it is the price which is not cheap. |
Exlibris, you requested some of Mr. Martin DeWulf's comments regarding the Weiss Medea DAC, so here they are: 1)The Medea did not have the drive and presence that I found in the Benchmark DAC 1. 2) The Medea can get loud, but never got raucous and wild. For a lack of a better term, it never completely let its hair down and boogied. 3) In terms of dynamic contrasts and audible energy, the Medea came off as ever so restrained. 4) It would not surprise me one bit if the Medea was voiced using horn loudspeakers... it still appears to me that the negatives I hear in this unit appear to negatively mirror some of those things I personally don't like about the sound of horns. Well, everybody has a right to their opinion including Mr. DeWulf, but alittle strange, wouldn't you say? As far as I can tell he used his reference transport, Camelot Round table along with Camelot Dragon digital signal processor to drive the Medea and his reference DAC in what he calls his "Big Rig" is the MSB Platinum DAC. I have heard the Benchmark DAC 1 and it offers very good performance at its $1000.00 price point, however I like the Bel Canto DAC II much better sonicly at $1200.00, but my ear's told me it came nowhere close to the performance and sonics of such DACS as Ensemble, Meitner, Accustic Arts, Reimyo, etc. I have not had the pleasure to listen to the Medea/Jason combo, but I believe that Branimir would have a few things to offer about how Mr. DeWulf described the sound of this digital front end. I think it will be hard for him to believe that good old Martin was listening to the Medea/Jason at all! |
Teajay, after reading your post about Martin De Wulf's comments regarding Weiss Medea I was almost reluctant to write any comment. But, here we are so: 1) His findings could be the result of using 'high' output level switch-it maybe overloaded his preamp($2.5K Headphone pre!!)... 2) He was using some kind of illegal substance during review period(...more likely). 3) There is a great suspicion that he actually listem to Medea in his system.
De Wulf's comments remined me in recent 'trash' review of Wilson speakers-that 'wizard' didn't even listen to Maxx II in his system but, he trashed them anyway and we have a thread about that here on Agon.
Kalman Rubison and John Atkison(Stereophile),Jimmy Hughes(HIFI+), reviewers of german Audio Mag, dozen of people from recording industry and many audiophiles(including myself) are all crazy because we all like Medea(and Jason) very much and consider it as a one of the best digital playback systems(RBCD) on the market.
Let me give you few quotes from wonderful review in HIFI+(issue 35) by Jimmy Hughes:
He wrote ˝The music sounded vivid and lucid, yet at the same time very natural and belivebile. It was a winning combination: impressive fine detail and sharpness, allied to an attractive smoothness and naturalness. Put in simpler more basic terms, it sounded right. Tonally, the music sounded beautifully balanced-sharp and tactile, while at the same time smooth and integrated. Difficult things-like massed violins, solo voices, massed choral forces-had a difficult-to-describe rightness that struck me as being wholly natural and authentic. ... The Weiss DAC magically tamed the brightness/hardness without losing brilliance and immediacy. ... Medea was sweeter , mellower, with a more analogue sort of reproduction-sounded even more natural, and belivebile. It sounded realistic, and very easy to listen to. The Medea produced a truly 'big' sound; quite awesomely huge.˝
Pretty much opposite from 'wizard' form BFS.
I will continue to enjoy my Weiss combo very much!
Regarding BFS, best of luck to them! Maybe these 'Wizards' will return to Oz someday... |
That is very surprising. In a number of other reviews of the Medea it is praised for its bottom-end, its dynamics, PRAT, and presentation of depth. |
I have read/heard many postive things regarding the Audiomat reference DAC and the Dodson DA-218 DAC, but have never heard them myself. So, my question is, do any of you Gon members own either of these DACS or have had the opportunity to listen to them, and what is your opinion regarding their sonic performance? Thanks to all willing to share. |
I share Teajay's interest in Audiomat Reference dac and I would like to know if anyone have a experience with Metronome C2A Signature DAC? Metronome Kalista Reference is also something that I would like to audition(together with C2A Signature), this is the only cd transport with battery power supply(!!) in the world. Reviewers in Japan are crazy about that combo but, price is very high:C2A Signature-Euro 20000, Kalista Reference-Euro 40000!
I heard only the best about Metronome( unfortunately, they are not currently present in USA market)... |
Also waiting from Branimir his experience from the new ARC cd7 also in comparison with the Weiss combo !
(very nice thread) |
Branimir and Teajay,
I will be auditioning an Audiomat DAC in the next couple of weeks and I'll let you know what I think.
Transports:
I'm hesitant to invest any significant amount of money in any transport because I believe the future of high end digital playback will be from magnetic disks rather than optical ones (i.e. hard drives; not CDs). Some say that this future is now upon us. Whether we like it or not, hard-drives will *definitely* be the future of digital playback for the general consumer and that future IS now.
DACs:
I believe that there will always be a place for high-end DACs. I can't believe that a computer sound card will ever sound good. There is just too much noise inside a computer for an analogue signal to be near one of these machines. Instead, the file read from the hard drive should be sent to an external DAC for conversion to analogue. This need not be a USB-enabled DAC. Companies like Empirical Audio sell audiophile-grade, USB-to-SPDIF converters that enable us to connect our DAC of choice to a hard drive. |
Kops, more on new Audio Research Reference CD7 in few weeks...
Exlibris, regarding the future of digital audio-I belive that something else rather than hard-drives will replace cd transports. But, I will stop here because this thread is about RBCDP.
Only one very suprising thing: At CES2006 we will see introduction of at least dozen new DACs/Transport's/CDPs or Universal Music(only!) player's. So, what is this? Return of RBCD or what?
Point is that RDCDP is far from death, like it or not...
Few words about new Accustic Arts Player1(24/192)-it is organic,smooth but, with PRAT and nice bottom end. It better's my Esoteric DV50s in RBCDP(but, to my suprise-differences are not that big) and bulid quality is very good. Only problem is the price-unfortunately I think it is too high... Competition in this price range($4k-$8K) is huge:Audio Research CD3MkII,Ayre CX7e or C-5xe,Cary CD303/300 or CD306,Esoteric X-03 just to name a few...
New ARC REF CD7 is $8995 and it is maybe the most interesting new player on the market( and excellent sounding-#2 flavor but, wow! More in few weeks...), price difference to Player1(24/192)is just $1K.
My point is not that Player1(24/192) is bad choice, far from it! It is excellent player but, if you want best possible Accustic Arts sound go for DAC1Mk3/Drive1 combo. I belive it is worth the extra money over Player1(24/192) and it is using more sophisticated dac's inside as well as some other things unique to them.
Today, we insert Player1 to my friends system and he is very happy with it. I told him my honest opinion about Player1 and he told me:'Ok, but, for 90% of audiophiles Player1 will be the reference stuff!' |
Branimir, thanks for sharing your final opinion on the Accustic Arts CDP, and I'm glad that your friend is very happy with his new digital player. I do not remember if you have had the chance to listen to The Accustic Arts DACIMK3, but as you stated, it is a qualitative different DAC with a 32/384 sampling rate. I knew the player would be quite good, but did not expect it to perform on the same level as the DAC. I'm a little confused with your statement regarding the price of the Accustic Arts CDP, I thought it retailed for $6000.00, if I'm wrong please correct me, therefore the price of the new ARC CD7 would be not just a $1000.00 difference, but would be $3000.00. I will admit my ignorance regarding the ARC CD7, but you make it sound like it might be a very special piece. Have you heard it already, or are you waiting to audition one? I will thank you in advance for what ever information you will share. |
Branimir,
I too owned an ARC CD3 mkII and thought it was a very good piece. I also thought (as you note in a different thread) that it was clearly not as good as the EMM Labs combo.
I'm very interested to hear your full opinion of the CD-7 (in a few weeks). The fact that it has a massive power supply and uses tubes has me very interested. |
Teajay, price of new Accustic Arts Player1MkII(24/192) is $7700-check on http://www.aaudioimports.com/ New price is IMO little bit to high... Price of DAC1Mk3 is $6K and Drive1 is $5.5K so, I would definitely go for this combo over Player1MkII, despite price difference.
Regarding new ARC REF CD7, yes, I bought one. I am using it in my system No.2-Sonus Faber Amati Anniversario/ARC REF210/ARC REF3/ARC REF CD7 with Weiss Medea/Jason acting like a guest star! Speakers and ARC gear are new( I receive them one week ago) and they have only 150hours of playing. Until 500hours break-in time point no long comments.. But, allready I can say that Anniversario's with ARC gear was amazing choice! ARC REF CD7 is definitely more emotionally involving player them my beloved Weiss combo.
Also, I can say that my favorites in #1 flavor group are: Esoteric(X-03,X-01,D-70vu/P-70vu,D-03/P-03/G-0s and D-01/P-01/G-0s) gear and Weiss Medea/Jason combo; in #2 flavor: ARC CD3MkII and REF CD7, Accustic Arts Player1MkII and DAC1MK3/Drive1 combo and Cary CD303/300. There are(and there are more to come!) many other very good dac/cdt combos and players on the market but, these are my personal favorites. |
Branimir, my compliments to you in two ways: 1) That you are affluent enough to own two world class systems. 2) That you are a "golden eared" audiophile with very good taste. If the system you described is the second system in your home, would you be nice enough to share details about the gear in your first system. The only question I would like to ask you, is, did you buy the ARC CD7 outright, or do you have an audition period before the final purchase? I have never bought a piece of gear without a long enough home audition to insure it was right for me in my system. Thats why I'm curious about your situation, it seems like you have purchased it, and now well see what it will sound like as it breaks in, which I would find concerning, unless I'm mistaken and you are going through the audition process and will make the final decision. Hope, this is not to personal of a question, just curious, thats all. |
Teajay, thanks for compliments. I own pharmaceutical business with my wife(she is very supportive, she also likes music and high-end audio!) and we own big house.
Regarding ARC REF CD7, I ordered unit together with REF210/REF3 but, I made an agreement with my dealer that I will pay REF CD7 only if I like it after long listening session. Well, I allready like it very much and I decided that I will buy it. I agree with you 100% that any purchase without in-home auditioning is crazy! ARC CD REF7 is first piece of gear that I decided to audition in my home without any previous reports about its sonics and I didn't regret it! My dealer is usually very supportive regarding in-home auditioning(and,IMO he must be!) and I never pay him a penny before my final decision about purchase.
BTW, you have excellent system and my best friend likes your reviews very much( Accustic Arts Player1MkII owner)! |
Branimir,
Are you willing to evaluate the CD7 against the Weiss in your System No. 1 so as to rule out the effects of ARC 'system synergy' that may exist in your System No. 2? |
Exlibris, Your point about 'system synergy' is very good one. This weekend I will put ARC REF CD7 against Weiss combo in my No.1 system as you suggested. I will also add Esoteric DV50s from my office system because I want to see how good are SACD/DVD-A( I borrowed some very good SACDs and DVD-As) but, also to see how will it hold up against ARC and Weiss...
BTW, what model of MBL speakers are you owning? |
Branimir,
I'm using the new MBL 101E model; I used to use Sound Lab A-1s.
I look forward to hearing your comparisons of the various digital front ends.
Thanks. |
It turns out that I will have an AA Drive1 and DAC1 mk3 in my system this weekend. I will report on how it compares to my EMM SACD 1000 and DCC2. |
Exlibris, I will be very interested in what your opinion will be regarding the Accustic Arts D1 transport/Accustic Art DAC1mk3 sonics in general and how it compares to your Meitner gear. Would you also be willing to share what the rest of your system gear is (wires,digital cable,pre-amp,amps,speakers) so I can have an overall perspective of how the Accustic Arts pieces match up in your overall system. As you know, my digital front end is composed of an Ensemble transport and the Accustic Arts DAC1mk3, which I finally settled on after auditioning many other DACS in my system. I found the Meitner gear to be a great #1 flavor and the Accustic Arts a great #2 flavor to my ear's. So, I'll just wait for what your ear's tell you in your experience. Have a nice Thanksgiving holiday. |
Teajay,
I've added a system link to my page.
I'll let you know how things go with the AA stuff.
Have a nice Thanksgiving holiday (I had mine last month; I'm Canadian). |
This evening my dealer has 'Digital Day', there will be a comparison between dCS Elgar Plus/Verona/Verdi Encore(new version)-EMMLabs DCC2/CDSD-Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s and Weiss Medea/Jason. Rest of the system is W/P7 and Pass X350.5/X0.2 combo with all Shunyata wires. I will report results tomorrow. Happy Thanksgiving to all people from USA. |
Is anyone using the mbl 1621 transport? Curious what DAC they are using and if this match is #1 or #2.
Thanks
Rich |
Exlibris, based on reading a past post you put on another thread regarding the Acoustic Zen Absolute IC's and speaker wire I was aware that you had replaced your Cardas wires with Mr. Robert Lee's new reference. Would you be willing to share what your experience has been with them in your system? I too, have them in my system and find them to have a great blend of details, clarity, extension, but still have what I call a "liquidity/musicality" at the same time. I have not yet discovered and major short-comings sonicly that would concern me. So, I would love to hear what you think, no one else, in my network of audiophile friends has them in their system. I'll thank you in advance. |
Branimir, you posting your systems have stimulated my curiosity in a few directions concerning the different sonic signatures of your two wonderful systems. So, here are my questions: 1) What are the similarities/differences in the overall sonic's of each system? 2) Do you find that certain types of music do better or are more enjoyable on one system or the other? 3) What would you consider are the major strengths of each system? 4) If you had to decide to live with only one or the other system which one would you chose and why? 5) Do you find that your own inner mood/being sometimes leads you to one system or the other? I'm fascinated with what your answers will be, must of us music lovers do not have two world class systems in our homes to chose from. Secondly, I'm assuming they offer a qualitively different musical experience, not which is right or wrong, but different, so personnal taste overlaps with the experience of each system. I'll thank you in advance for your response. It should be very interesting, indeed! |
Teajay,
I'll start by saying that the Absolute speaker wires made a much bigger difference in my system compared with the ICs. The difference between the Absolute speaker wire and the rest of the speaker wires in the AZ line-up is huge.
The ICs:
I started out with Cardas Golden Reference and then went to the AZ Silver Ref II. I found them to be more open and airy with a better sense of space and life. Things were, however, a little 'tipped up' and aggressive for my liking. I then tried out the Absolute and it was better in every sense when compared to the Silver Ref IIs. Everything just appeared to be 'more real'. The cable didn't seem to add anything or highlight anything. Images had more weight and density the air between them was well drawn. I was hesitant to spend 2.5 times more for the Absolutes so I decided to try the PAD Venustas. It provided a very 'substantive' soundstage; like the Cardas but more open and more delineated. No matter how much I liked it, however, it just didn't seem to get across the emotion in singers' voices the way the Silver Refs did. In the end I bought the Absolutes because they simply bettered all the other cables in every respect. Unlike the speaker cables, however, the difference was not 'night and day'.
My gut feeling is that I won't find speaker cables in this price range that I like better than the Absolutes but that there *may* be ICs around that offer better value than the Absolute. Having said this, I too have yet to discover any major (or minor) short-comings that concern me. |
Teajay, when I choose gear for my two systems primal goal was to create two excellent but, different sounding systems. No.1 system is simply breathtaking sounding, it is illuminating(not bright!) with best extension is bass and treble that I ever heard. Soundstage is biggest that I heard so far with excellent focus and detail(for the first time I have a feeling that I am in the Jazz club listening to Coltrane live!). Music has holographic presentation, without any sign of grain! It is almost sweet sounding but, with huge drama. Also, it has the best 'silence' behinde the soundstage. Microdynamics are amazing as are macrodynamics. PRAT are in the league of their own...
No.2 System is more easier on ears(legato) sounding. Warmer balanced with more midrange presence(but, this is a pleasing coloration-I am aware of that!) and not so much bass extension or tightness. PRAT is very good , rather than excellent and details are not presented in that surgical precision...
Both systems are eqally excellent with music types that I use to listen-classic,jazz and rock. No.1 system is definitely bringing me closer to live music! On the other hand No.2 system is probably more enjoyable on long listening sessions(but, live concerts last only few hours tops, so...). If I had to choose only one between these two? No.1 without any question but, I am very lucky that I do not have to do that!
My inner mood is almost allways leading me to one system or the other.
'Soultrane' is breathtaking on both of my systems and better then anywhere else I heard it(except those lucky one who were able to enjoy John live!)!
More info with pictures on my system thread in few months... |
'Digital' session at my dealer's was long and interesting one. But, keep in mind that my findings are based on dealer's system, not mine. First we listen to EMMLabs and it sounded clean,nicely balanced with very good PRAT. Highs were very extended but, bass were not deep as I expected(it was very tight). dCS sounded very similar to EMMLabs! dCS has more midrange presence(but, differences were very small) and could be even lighter in bass. Esoteric has excellent bass(better then EMMLabs and dCS) and PRAT. It is more energetic sounding then former two.
To my ears it bettered EMMLabs and dCS in every respect(to my big suprise!). Weiss is something like mixture of EMMLabs and Esoteric with extra 'power'. It has excellent bass(but, more 'digital' sounding then Esoteric) and is definitely more energetic sounding then EMMLabs and dCS.
If I had to choose one it will be Esoteric-highest price,best sound and build quality. Regarding build quality-Esoteric is first,Weiss very close second,dCS third and EMMLabs fourth.
All these combos are #1 flavor but, they are clearly different sounding(variations in #1 flavor group). I understand now clearly why some people find EMMLabs as the current leader in digital playback. I agree with them to some degree... Our personal preferences will allways lead us to our final choice.
All of them are excellent and they are current edge of the art in digital playback!
Rich, I will audition MBL 1531 cd player in my systems in one week time. Then I will report my findings. |
Branimir,
Is it too early to say how the CD7 would fit into the mix? |
Exlibris, I feel it is little bit to early for final opinion on ARC REF CD7... I bought the unit but, until 500hours of playing(break-in) no long comments. It is #2 flavor and I allready like it very much. |
Branimir, as always thanks for sharing your experiences with us fellow GON members. Regarding your ranking of the digital gear in your dealers system, two qustions: 1) Do you think you will change your Jason/Medea front end to the Esoteric reference gear now that you believe it's a better #1 sonic presentation? 2) What did you think of the sonics of the Pass LabsX-350.5 amp? I know the demo was not in your system, but am curious what you think, regarding this amp, because I use the 350.5 in my system. I'll thank you in advance for your reply. |
Teajay, I will try to compare Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo in my system No.1 with my Weiss Medea/Jason combo.
Also I am interested in new Krell Evolution Three universal music player(three pieces-transport,dac and power supply) which is using Krell cast connection. It will be introduced at CES2006 and in showrooms in next spring.
Since it was my former pair of W/P7 that dealer used for demo I was pleasently suprised with sonics. Pass X350.5/X0.2 sounded excellent with W/P7 bringing warmth to Wilson sound but, with very good bass control and extension. Your review is spot-on in describing X350.5 sound quality! In its price range(and above!) it is one of the best stereo SS amps available. I hope that you agree with me. In fact I think that new X.5 series is very good choice for small Wilson's(new Duette,Sophia2 or W/P7).
Although sound was very good it was not as good as sound of my systems... I am curious about new Pass XA60(maybe for my office system)? Do you know anything about thier sonics? |
Branimir, the Pass Labs XA series adds even more "warmth/easyness" to the overall sonic signature of the .5 amps. If you like what must people would describe as a tube like quality, then the XA amps would be very pleasant sounding to your ears. Because, the XA amps do not double down into lower impedence loads, they did not work as well in my system as the 350.5, which does double down into lower impedence, when driving my MG-20Rs. My hunch is that audiophiles that love tube-SET's or an amp like the Dartzel would really enjoy a pair of XA amps. As far as I know the single chassis XA-60 has not been released yet by Pass, unless you know something I don't. For my budget and my ear's the 350.5 is a wonderful sounding amp in my system and replaced a highly regarded Edge NL-10. Great dynamics/clarity/extension with a "warmth/liquidity" normally associated with tube amps. |
The AA drive and DAC arrived new-in-the-box on Saturday so I will not be able to comment on it until later in the week.
Teajay, how much burn-in do you recommend before doing any serious listening? |
>...This weekend I will put ARC REF CD7 against Weiss combo in my No.1 system as you suggested. I will also add Esoteric DV50s from my office system"
Branimir, I'm very curious if you did this comparison/auditioning. I was thinking to buy Esoteric DV50S, as my budget would probably not allow now to go for super expensive digital front. |
Rajko, comparison between Weiss combo, ARC REF7 and Esoteric DV50s was last night in my No.1 System with following results: To my suprise it was hard battle between ARC and Weiss. Weiss is more energetic, with more PRAT. ARC has more midrange presence and very sweet but, sky high extended treble. In bass ARC was close to Weiss(and Weiss is one of the best in that regard!) and was able to beat it in sheer musical pleasure. ARC has 300hours of listening and it will continue to improve but, allready it is the best #2 flavor machine that I heard so far. If the Esoteric D-01/P-01/G-0s combo is the best #1 flavor(Weiss combo close second) then ARC REF CD7 is very close to them in absolute music satisfaction! And, I am very glad that ARC didn't put 'REFERENCE' on CD7 for nothing. I used Esoteric DV50s just to see how will it compare with SACD/DVD-A against Weiss and ARC with RBCDs.
I will say that I need to do more comparison between formats for final conclusion. Esoteric DV50s is good player but, if you will listen only RBCDs there are better choices... |
Exlibris, my experience with the AA DAC was it sounded pretty good after around 30 to 40 hours, but really opened up and significantly changed right around 250 to 300 hours of playing time. I never noticed it sounding worse before it got better, just a steady improvement untill it fully burned in. I'm still very interested what your opinion of this gear will be, respecting your ear's/experience with digital front ends, so I know you will share what conculsions you finally come to in your audition process. What, digital cable are you going to use during your audition? I have raved about the significant difference the Stealth Sextet made in my system, along with my experience that any cables I have used, including the Sextet, brought the performance of my digital gear to a higher level with BNC connections. I don't know if in your system if you use single-ended or balanced wires, so the above information regarding the BNC's might not be useful, if you use balanced wires. |
If you have a chance to compare DV50s with RBCDs to the other two even briefly, it would be very helpful for some of us who want one machine and SACD/DVD-a, but can't afford $15-20k players. I'm just curious if DVs is by great margin out in this comparison. Is there any other universal player in $5-8k price range that you think is better than DV50s? |
Branimir,
You mentioned that the ARC CD7 was the best #2 sounding unit that you had heard so far. Would that include any of the following: Zanden; Audio Note; Audio Aero; or Reimyo?
Thanks as always.
One other poster to this thread was hoping that we could come up with names for #1 and #2 sound. HP's 'yin' and 'yang' are good. For what it's worth, in my own mind I've been using 'truth' and 'beauty'. I realize, however, that the terms are flawed in their narrowness. |
Teajay,
I'm using the Acoustic Zen MC-squared digital cable with RCA connector. I know it isn't the best. I do, however, like it better than the Cardas digital cable that I'm using on my EMM gear (surprisingly, I'm not a fan of EMM's ST Glass cable in my set-up).
The AZ cable, the AA transport, and the AA DAC now have 53 hours on them.
I really think the combination could use a lot more break-in time. Right now the music is struggling to emerge from a dense fog. |
Exlibris, your experience so far is very similiar to what I heard, but I would describe it as being "closed in" before the DAC blossomed into giving its best performance. I used to use the Acoustic Zen cable and found it to be smooth and warm, but not giving great details or "air" around the players in a smaller sound stage. Its a good cable at its price range, but could some what get in the way of the performance of the AA gear. When I got my AA DAC I had a fully broke in transport and digital cable (Ensemble,Artistic Arts) which might have lead to a more positive experience in the first 40 hours, less fog as you would say, then your getting right now. Well, thanks for getting back on whats going on right now, and I expect that what you hear well be much more pleasing as time goes on with your home audition. The Acoustic Zen cable is good enough to let you know, after the needed burn in, if the sonics of the AA will float your sonic boat. |
Treemed67-Rajko, I have Esoteric DV50s almost one year now. I am enjoying it very much in my office system, it is good #1 flavor player. But, it is not the best RBCD playback for the money. Weiss combo and ARC REF CD7 are a lot better then DV50s with RBCDs! There are IMO only two players(universal) that are better then DV50s in $5-8K region. These are: Ayre C-5xe(universal stereo music player, NO DVD-V or without video section!) and Esoteric UX-3. Accustic Arts Surround Player is little bit to expensive($9K)... Esoteric UX-3 is better then DV50s in every respect so, if price is not the issue go for UX-3.
Esoteric gear benefites very much from after market power cords and all of them have very long break-in period(up to 1000h!!).
Exlibris, I audition Reimyo DAP-777 and Audio Aero Prestige SACD player is currently in my system. My findings are that ARC REF CD7 is better then both of them.
AA Prestige is very good and is sounding very best via its internal preamp but, ARC REF3 and ARC REF CD7 together are IMO a Lot better... More midrange magic, better bass(big suprise!) and more natural high frequency, to my ears.
Prestige is at $13K very good choice(internal preamp-a good one) but, its preamp section is not in the same league as ARC REF3 and even just as a players I like ARC REF CD7 more. Prestige player is also not very user friendly... I did not audition Zanden in my system( just at hifi shows) and Kondo KSL-DAC is very interesting dac...
Audio Note(UK) gear do not interest me. Need to audition Accustic Arts combo that you are currently break-in in your system. |
