Received a Bill for State Tax on An Amp Bought in Canada Last Year
Wow! The envelope said “Dept of Revenue” so I figured it may be my car tags due. I opened the envelope to find a statement that I owed $665 for “use tax” on an amp I bought last year in June. Shocked is an understatement. Yes, I bought a used amp from a guy in Canada through A’gon. But I paid the tariff on it. Now they also want tax. However, the amount they are basing it on is over double what I paid for the amp. But had to send it to Don Sachs for repair a few months later. So I wonder if they are seeing that as a separate purchase rather than a repair. They even charged me $43 interest which is more ridiculous IMO. So the question...Are you required to pay tax on a used amp or other used items? Has anyone else encountered this? Yes, I know the states are cracking down on the sales tax. But on used items? Wow
How much would that be, who would decide the amount, and how would it be distributed?
Up until Reagan destroyed the middle class, wages always tracked with productivity. If they were to wave a magic wand, then everyone would see about a 30% increase in their wages, but that will never happen, dontcha know? Again, why should taxpayers pick up the tab for what employers refuse to pay, thus subsidizing the employers?
Would the funds come from families that don't work?
No, ya big silly. They'd come from the uber wealthy who've been benefitting from their decades long plan of redistribution, which has created quite the aristocracy (something our founding fathers were dead set against).
Most likely because the crowd you hang with don't have a clue about the money issue and never discuss it.
This, coming from a gold bug? You're funny.
Why do you see equity as a problem? Why do pundits on FOX and in the GOP call for defunding our military, actually oppose bills to support the cops, call our military leaders "pigs" and "stupid" and you let them get away with it? Right wingers beat and killed cops for crying out loud. Where's your outrage, Frank.
Did you not read my last post? Check out the note at the end.
Getting back on topic ... Why should the State of California charge me for something I bought in another state and had no connection to California other than it crossed state lines via the USPS or UPS?
If it crosses the state line then it has a connection to the state unless you're advocating for a more federal system without state borders. If you find the laws of the state you're in onerous then change them or move. How about you move to a red southern state without all those nasty "progressives" where you can be free from the nonsense of California, I know how about Tennessee?
Also - when you contact the Tennessee Dept of Revenue re: the sales tax code there, you may want to also determine if they collect sales tax on sellers who do not have a physical presence in Tennessee. Many states (if not most states) do not.
It's oast States with a sales tax require you to pay that sales tax on items purchased out of state By mail or whatever means. It's often called use tax. California they have A-line on the tax return which asks if you bought anything for which you didn't pay sales or use tax and if you lie it now becomes potentially a crime and a penalty. I always take the high road and keep track of any significant purchases I made and claim them as a use tax item at the end of the year. It records in case there is any kind of disagreement.
You may not like it, but many states have a sales tax and all states that have a state and local sales tax also have an accompanying compensating use tax. Generally the sales tax and compensating use tax also applies to the sale of used merchandise. If you are a seller located within a state, you are required to register as a sales tax vendor with the state's department of revenue and collect the tax from your customer on each sale of taxable merchandise and remit it to the state periodically. If you are located out of state, in the old days the states could not force you as a seller to register and collect the tax for them because the states could not enforce their law in another state. That's where the "compensating use" tax part of the tax comes into play. Customers were required by law to remit the tax to the state on their own. Of course most of the time people didn't even know the law, and even if they did, most did not remit the tax, and the states had no way to enforce the law. Then, catalog sales took off and later the internet joined in. Now states are able to get third party sellers like amazon to collect and remit tax for them and many states have formal relations with out of state mail order companies who often have brick and mortar corporate affiliate stores instate. I believe the Canadians and some of the states have reciprocal agreements with each other. So they report taxable sales to each other. So.... you received a bill. And you may have received a bill for tax on the sale, and then, when a repair was made, that too is subject to tax. People may disagree about the level of state and local budgets, and reasonable people can disagree. But taxation should be fair and equitable. If a local merchant in a brick and mortar store is required to collect sales tax on new and used merchandise and services, why shouldn't a mail order catalog or internet seller be required to do the same? Not doing so creates a perverse incentive for people to make purchase in other states to avoid tax.
Used stuff, less cars in some instances, not taxed in TN and many states. No way to collect and the tax was already paid when the item was purchase new.
Used stuff, less cars in some instances, not taxed in TN and many states.
No, you're still mistaken.
As I already noted, that’s not how in works in Tennessee. You won’t find an exemption for used items on its sales tax website.
In
addition to its sales tax, the state also has a companion "use tax"
that applies "when the sales tax was not collected by the seller on
otherwise taxable products brought or shipped into Tennessee. The use
tax applies to all items otherwise subject to sales tax ..."
Quote below from your link. Just retail sales. Show me where is says used goods sold by folks not running a retail business?
“Generally, the sales tax applies to the retail sale of tangible personal property and certain services such as lodging services, telecommunications services and installation and repair of tangible personal property. “
Seems true unless you are a business. We common folk selling on Craigs List, yard sales, Facebook buy sell trade, AudioGon etc.., pay and change no tax.
You think your over tax in USA ? In Canada, biggest liars and thieves on the planet . Not to mention they have some of the stupid bastards on earth! Tell them to go to Hell,
Seems
true unless you are a business. We common folk selling on Craigs List,
yard sales, Facebook buy sell trade, AudioGon etc.., pay and change no
tax.
Apparently you haven't bothered to read the OP, because he was charged the tax. As I noted, used items in Tennessee are not exempt from sales tax and when the tax is not collected, a companion "use tax" can be assessed by the state.
Here's what the OP asked:
Are you
required to pay tax on a used amp or other used items? Has anyone else
encountered this?
The answer is clearly, "yes." And that's why he received the tax bill.
Not really. There’s a difference between disagreeing and being disagreeable.
I provided you a direct link to the Tennessee Department of Revenue sales tax rules. According to the Department of Revenue, used items are taxable in Tennessee. So you’re arguing with them, not "disagreeing" with me.
Show me where it says used items are taxed and I will agree with you. Only retail sales are mentioned. If I missed the used verbiage, then please reveal it and I will agree.
Show me where it says used items are taxed. Only retail sales are mentioned.
The term "retail sales" includes the sale of used items between private parties. I'm not sure why you think otherwise. In any event, the proof you seem to seek is in the OP, silly:
... I bought a used amp from a guy in Canada through A’gon. But I paid the tariff on it. Now they also want tax."
So he has a tax bill from the taxing authority, under the terms explained on the state website. If you think used items are somehow oddly exempt under Tennessee tax code, I’m sure the OP will be grateful for the appeal you’ll file on his behalf. When filing an appeal in a tax code dispute, you'll need to cite the exact language in the code that supports your claim. Good luck with that!
Used sales from private parties is not a retail sale by definition ...
You’re mistaken. Retail sales include any private sales of items not intended for resale. That’s why the OP got a tax bill. For more information, see the state tax website that I’ve already provided you several times. In Tennessee’s case, it has even instituted a "use tax" so it can collect from users when a seller engages in your sort of argument. Again, that is explained on the website.
Remember: The OP already received a tax bill with interest. To contest it, he’ll have to do a little better than your protest. Believe me, these taxing entities have heard all of the excuses before right up to and including, "I’m a sovereign citizen and not subject to tax."
I completely understand your sense of this. I understand it differently. Retail is not how you define it in my understanding. We will not agree on this. It may just may boil down to how far reaching our understanding of the law and “retail” applies case by case. TN residents are certainly not paying sales tax on Facebook and Craigs List type of used good sales. This particular case on the amp is curious. The state may think it was a new retail sale. Don’t know.
TN residents are certainly not paying sales tax on Facebook and Craigs List type of used good sales
They should be charged sales tax on FB and CL if the seller is a business with a sales tax certificate, unless it otherwise qualifies for the exemption as listed by the state. (Note that used items aren’t listed as exempt from sales or use tax.) If the seller for whatever reason does not charge tax, the state can assess a "use tax" on the transaction, as explained on the website and as the OP discovered.
One thing to remember is that something is not rendered tax-free simply because tax is not charged. That’s the exact issue facing the "former guy" right now as well as the OP of this thread.
What alt right idiot took issue with a direct quote from the Constitution of the United States regarding taxation, and only taxation? It had nothing to do with politics and everything to do with the OPs question.
”The Sales Tax does not apply to casual and isolated sales by persons who are not, or who have been deemed by the Commissioner not to be engaged in the business of selling tangible personal property or furnishing any of the services subject to the Sales or Use Tax. The Sales Tax, likewise, does not apply to sales of tangible personal property or taxable services not normally sold by a dealer and which has been used by the dealer prior to the sale; this exemption however, does not apply to any sales of tangible personal property or taxable services bought upon a resale certificate for resale by those persons who hold themselves out as engaged in business, notwithstanding the fact that the sales may be few and infrequent. The exemption also does not apply to the casual and isolated sale of aircraft , vessels and motor vehicles which are required to be registered by the State of Tennessee or the U.S. Government.”
Unless this amp was purchased from a business selling new and used goods, the tax is not owed. If purchased from a fellow audiophile who does not run a retail business, then no tax is owed.
Why bother responding to such matters when it's only going to get deleted, again, when they don't like the answer? This is only an exercise in framing the discussion (deleting valid answers) here to make it look like no one has the answer when it's right in the first sentence of the referenced quote:
”The Sales Tax does not apply to casual and isolated sales by persons who are not, or
who have been deemed by the Commissioner
not to be engaged in the business of selling tangible personal property or furnishing any of the services subject to the Sales or Use Tax.
Wow! Been nursing a cold for the last 4-5 days. My wife has been by my side....doing the same. She gave it to me. Oh well. On our 3rd bottle of "elixer" (small bottles) Summer colds suck. Anywayt, I haven’t kept up with the thread nor taken care of the issue yet. I may consult a lawyer 1st just so I have better understanding before I xcall about this. I will keep you posted as I progress. Thanks for your posts.
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”The Sales Tax does not apply to casual and isolated sales by persons who are not, or who have been deemed by the Commissioner not to be engaged in the business of selling tangible personal property or furnishing any of the services subject to the Sales or Use Tax. The Sales Tax, likewise, does not apply to sales of tangible personal property or taxable services not normally sold by a dealer and which has been used by the dealer prior to the sale ...
Kindly notice how carefully the regulation states: "The Sales Tax Does not apply ..." It does not state that the Use Tax does not apply. The OP’s notice from the state clearly wasn’t for sales tax, because under state rules that’s paid by the seller. In this instance, the bill is sent to the buyer - it's Use Tax by the state's definitions.
I do agree with @djones51 that Tennessee’s rules are odd, but the state’s bill for Use Tax owed still looks valid based on everything presented here.
Maryland also has a "use tax" that applies to any purchases made outside the state in jurisdictions that do not charge tax. So, if I take a short trip to Delaware, and buy a $10,000 from Overture AV, and bring it back to Maryland, technically I owe $600. If I do an internet order, and don't pay tax on the order, again, I technically need to pay Maryland 6% of the invoice total. I do not think they actively try to track such purchases, but I suspect that orders coming from out of the U.S. might be easier to track, as the U.S., I believe, tracks the shipments, and probably relays to info to states if they desire.
But if you buy a used amp from Joe aphile and bring it back you owe no tax. Correct? No use tax. No tax. I cannot fathom any other answer based on the realities involved with trying to collect such a tax and the fact that nobody pays nor keeps track of these used transactions.
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