Raven vs primaluna integrated amplifiers

 Here ya go!
https://www.worldatlas.com/which-countries-are-still-communist.html#:~:text=A%20communist%20state%20...

@yogiboy linky no worky....,.,,

@glupson
"China gets a pass. It has not been a communist country in decades. "
Really? Please educate me!


 

Both are great products supported by great people here in the US.

People make products not countries.

Where you spend your money and what politics you supports is your business.

This thread has wondered so far off into the weeds it is not funny. It has turned into the usual suspect sniping any one and character assassinations right and left ( I am not without fault here).

Stay on topic the OP did not come here for the bull!

I am done with most of you, you miserable lot!

skypunk,

Correct your language. It is not suitable for interactions with unknown people on an open Internet forum.

"...years ago and prior to my fully understanding China’s policies and evil ambitions."

Anyone ever wondered how Britain got its Great?

"...not made in Communist countries."

China gets a pass. It has not been a communist country in decades.

Having said that, I like Monitor Audio speakers and would recommend them. I guess, best of both worlds.

@tablejockey 
Never claimed the speakers were British...stated the company is based in England and has a manufacturing facility in China. These speakers are as Chinese as your PL equipment and that is okay...not judging anyone based on equipment owned. As noted, the speakers were purchased years ago and prior to my fully understanding China’s policies and evil ambitions. If it were today I would never purchase or recommend Monitor Audio equipment for this reason. Personally, I would forego a great value product and pay more for the same product made in the USA. However, I realize not everyone shares my views and this too is okay. This is what makes America great and I simply seek to defend the freedom we enjoy. Ultra sensitive...hardly. Ultra patriotic...emphatically!

You know a PL vs anything will derail sooner or later.

All because I wasn't in  complete filter mode? Silly me. Only if I wrote something like-gee, not considering a product just because it's made in China might cause you to miss a great value product. 

Dumb meaning it's naïve to think his speakers are British. THEY"RE MADE IN CHINA! 

All the ultra sensitive can go about their business now.

I have no dog in this race (i.e., PL or Raven) as I own some of Steve McCormack's separates made many moons ago. I also cannot claim to have any Chinese manufactured products in my system as my Monitor Audio Gold's are made by a company based in England but manufactured in China. However, these speakers were purchased year's ago and before I fully understood China's policies and true intentions. I sincerely believe most people in China are good. However, they have been brainwashed by the CCP much like what NAZI Germany did to the people of Germany prior to WWII. My apologies for continuing this political rant on an audio blog but I feel very strongly about what is taking place in our nation and across the globe. People need to wake up and realize that if we fail to take action our children and grandchildren may one day be forced to speak Mandarin. The action I take is to support politicians who share my views and make a conscience effort to look at every label and first, purchase products made in USA and second, those not made in Communist countries. Purchasing anything "made in China" is the equivalent of feeding the monster that is going to eat you. God Bless America!

skypunk.

At some point, you may need to change the language you use on public websites.

Please start corresponding like a person of a class higher than what you present yourself as.

One of the things that made Primaluna attractive to me was the ability to accept a wide range of tubes. Does the Raven work well with any tubes other than the 6L6GC?

For those offering direct listening comparisons, did you make a note of what tubes were being used?

skypunk,

I have no urge to brag with my life achievements on an audio forum.

The language you use here is inappropriate. You should know it by now.

Buy the other American made in Illinois amp Decware, not the prettiest looking amp but lifetime warranty to original owner and all hand built.

@glupson it is perfect for me and I will invest my money where it pays dividends.

 At least I post my gear unlike snipers like you.

I did not solicited your advice. The original post was about Raven and Primaluna. To wit you have made zero contributions to the topic. You chose to snipe.
 Goodbye Gulp if I could block your ass I would.

We all have our preferences and no carpet is yours. I prefer no carpet myself. It is very easy to explain that to someone giving you an advice on an audio forum. No need for obnoxious responses.

Tekton drivers are Made in China. Nothing wrong with that, but that is what it is.

I have no idea about PrimaLuna except that I heard and read of people praising it, but Raven(s) that I have heard at an audio show sounded good altogether. More expensive ones sounded more pleasant (surprise!) so it was probably not only due to speakers etc. If I were considering tube amplifier in that price range, I would definitely give them a listen.

Also, as someone already mentioned, check Luxman.

Actually miller would get a pass if he actually walked the walk. If he did then I’d be the first to say well theres a guy who stands up for his convictions. But he doesn’t. He doesn’t because he is in the same boat as everyone else who considers buying something made in china....the cost. So his only move is talk the talk.

Miller your system page is right there in the open for everyone to see and much of it is made in china. Always running your yap lecturing others about buying chinese gear when a bulk of your system is made there. What a clown, talk about virtue signaling. Who do you think your fooling? The hypocrisy is cartoonish.

skypunk,

We all have our preferences and no carpet is yours. I prefer no carpet myself.  It is very easy to explain that to someone giving you an advice on an audio forum. No need for obnoxious responses.

Your system does look impressive for the entry level that it is. I heard Raven once and it sounded good then and there.

Since I needed a preamp, it was an easy decision for me, Raven doesn't make one.

Prima Luna is made by Cayin. A very large, respected Chinese electronics manufacturer. Personally, I would by American. Raven all the way. No dig on China, but if the sound is similar, go raven. 

Also rarely do you ever see a Raven listed here on Agon, US Audio-mart or EBay. But tones of PL gear in the used market.
people buy Raven Audio and keep it.

Good one, thanks for the reminder. This is another one on my long list of things to research before spending my hard earned dough. Lots of guys seem to think a large discount off full retail is a good deal. They forget no deal is good unless at the end of it you have the right component.

When I went looking for my phono stage the first thing I did after deciding on Herron was go looking for one used. There were none. At first I was disappointed. But then after 6 months during which zero were listed but TWO were listed as WANTED, I realized what this meant: all those owner comments about being done looking were for real.  

So it concerned me when someone posted a comment about a Raven amp selling for cheap. But then when I went and looked that amp turned out to be ten years or something like that old, not the current generation, and the price was actually pretty strong, all things considered.

Now it pains me to have to say this, but just as a matter of pure logic saying something positive about A is not the same as saying something negative about not-A. Seems pretty obvious and few of us make it out of grade school without picking up on this, or by high school for sure, even without any courses in deductive reasoning. But a disproportionately large number of them do seem to wind up posting a lot on this site. So there you go.

Arafiq-I also posted my impressions on SQ. looks like some folks are fixated on MC.
+1 Ozzy

While it is regrettable how many threads are ruined by the wanna-bee Ahabs out there, even so I take pride and satisfaction at being their Great White Whale. I only regret that this being the internet they get to pretend their mast isn't broken, their ship not sunk. They remain legend... in their own minds.

And the thread goes further away from the OP.

Goodnight kids.

raven may well be a very well built, good sounding tube amp

clearly there are a few, maybe more than a few, let’s say ’vocal’ supporters of the brand here on this forum

but i have say, the folks who are coming to bat for the brand seem to walk a fine line towards turning other people off... perhaps not in what they are saying, but certainly how they are saying it - don’t think that benefits the amps nor the company - perhaps a 'less is more' approach would be more beneficial...

one day i may try a raven amp, for the present i am quite happy now with my vac, audio research, linear tube audio, audio mirror set tube amps (and a primaluna d-hp)... but maybe one day...

as for primaluna, there is a recent thread about the brand, their amps... they are popular, offer very good value for the money and sound very good, with a notable style of sound... much of the criticisms levied need to be taken with a grain of salt

@glupson We own a vacation home is St. Anne Bay Jamaica that we rent. I also own 2 homes in Florida and one in Colorado. They are all vacation rentals as we rent them out when we are not using them.

Guess that is hard to get your head around?

Later Gulp.

Punk.

@glupson  I am not going to indulge you tonight.

Dude zero Japan also.

I have a Raven Audio Blackhawk, Moon by Simaudio 260D transport, 280D DSD/DAC all made in Canada, Icon Audio PS2 made in UK, Thorens TD145 turntable made in Switzerland, Raven Audio CeLest Towers, Raven Audio Soniquil cables all made in the USA.

System in our vacation home is all Italy with Pathos and Sonus faber.

It is very easy to avoid China. Look at Pass, Klipsch, VPI,.......

"Quite easy to keep from having any made in China in your system and have top shelf gear."

You have all Made in Japan on shelves?

For real, what is considered top-shelf gear?

With the Raven you’re limiting your power tube options, so you should do some

@glow_worm also shows his ignorance on Raven.

A call to Dave or James and you will get the best advice on tube rolling.

I will say the same would be true of Kevan Deal at Upscale Audio on tube rolling for the Primaluna product. 
Both Raven Audio and Upscale Audio are first class and you will get great support, I know as I also own a Pathos In Pol 2 that is in my vacation house. 

Also with Raven it is about the quality of those watts not the quantity.

Punk.

Ozzy 62 , +1.
@skypunk, you make a strong case citing various American manufacturers who do manage to make quality audio products at competitive cost to Primaluna. In particular Quicksilver tends tends to be overlooked in this price segment.
Charles

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big Texas fan, particularly now that its no longer a part of Mexico. 

The op asked for advice. What he got from you is Raven is the BEST because you happen to own it. Typical. 

“Ilk”...good grief. 

I received my Raven Nighthawk on January 14th. The communication with Raven before and since my order has been first rate. Any questions you may have James or Bryant will be glad to answer. I haven't had the pleasure to speak to Dave Thompson yet, but looking forward to the opportunity. 
   As for the Nighthawk. What a wonderful sounding amp. Beautiful, solidly built and comes with NOS tubes. Very engaging. Can't say anything about your speakers, but 9 o'clock is about as loud as I normally have the volume with my Klipsch Heresy IV speakers. They recently upgraded to Cardas connections and a few other improvements without raising the price. 
  No experience with PL but if I can support an American company, that's what I do. A 45 day return window for their products spells confidence to me.

As for why Texas is related to better sound quality, this is a head

scratcher. Maybe if we were discussing live stock.

Everything is bigger in Texas. And we are proud of our republic here in Texas. Unlike you and your ilk.

Also rarely do you ever see a Raven listed here on Agon, US Audio-mart or EBay. But tones of PL gear in the used market.

people buy Raven Audio and keep it.

Have to wonder if you ever even auditioned a Raven?
Sure @glow_worm sure.

Like I said, Raven is hot on the Forum now...wait a while. For less than $3k, you’re better off going used. The m3k is quite good for the $, but far from breathtaking. As for PL, they get a quite a bit better as you go up the line. But looking for significant sq differences in the two integrateds you mentioned is really splitting hairs. 

As for why Texas is related to better sound quality, this is a head scratcher. Maybe if we were discussing live stock. 

Not cheaper design or materials. If it was made in America it would

be the same just more expensive.

 Not true but you are free to think that. Look at US companies like Raven, Rogue, Cary, Decware, Quick Silver, LTA, Manley that make FANTASTIC gear and compete price wise and exceed in quality of their Chinese peers.

Silly logic

I also posted my impressions on SQ. looks like some folks are fixated on MC. 
+1 Ozzy

Correct me if I'm wrong but primaluna is designed in the Netherlands and made in China. 
I think the problems of junk quality are related to things designed in China. The PL are made to the Netherlands design spec. 
The company is surely incorporated in the Netherlands also?
They are keeping the $/quality ratio as low as possible by using cheaper labour that's all. Not cheaper design or materials. If it was made in America it would be the same just more expensive.
I have one and it's amazing! 

Having said that, I usually try very hard to buy local. PL value is hard to beat.

@corelli 

Once again, little information on SQ. How does this help the OP? I get the political implications, but this is an AUDIO forum. Primarily. Right? Maybe not.

  Ummm I posted 2 links to reviews and I am sure the OP can search on google.

Jeez....

@tablejockey 

Of course its a subjective thing, but using the "it's made in China" reasoning is dumb.

Quite easy to keep from having any made in China in your system and have top shelf gear. I have.

But I do agree the world is flat in the global economy. Sucks but it is a fact. 

I dislike MC  misinformation regarding Prima Luna.

What misinformation? Specify. If you can. If not then I would appreciate an apology.

I’m as excited as I can get (at this stage of life)! My Nighthawk arrives next Thursday!! Whoop whoop!

Congratulations, ironhed! Sorry about all the crap. This site is up to its eyeballs in it. Still, there is quite a lot of good info. You just have to learn who to read, and who to ignore. Once you get that down you can learn a lot real fast.

I fully expect your excitement will be rewarded and you will not be disappointed in your Nighthawk. It is the sweet spot in the Raven line. The least expensive amp with their best bespoke caps and other parts. Hope you won’t be too put off and after you have had a chance will come back and let us know what you think.

Once again, little information on SQ.  How does this help the OP?  I get the political implications, but this is an AUDIO forum.  Primarily.  Right?  Maybe not.

I dislike MC  misinformation regarding Prima Luna.  Prima Luna is based in the Netherlands and Kevin Deal is a co-owner of the company. He is also the US Importer. The factory in China makes only Prima Luna and Mystique.    It has been building Prima Luna since day one.  This is the same BS that was spewed by some of the people who posted to this thread regarding my GE Speakers.  Designed in America and built in China.  Again at a factory that ONLY makes GE products.  

Raven period!

I have a Blackhawk in my main system and it replaced McIntosh MA252. 
Build quality is is fantastic. Sound is beyond words.

45 day returns so what do you have to lose.

Read the member review’s here  https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/raven-audio-nighthawk-mk3

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-raven-audio-blackhawk-integrated-soniquil-cables

BUILT IN THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS!!!

Thank you, Oz.

Nobody gets a pass on anything. But when the OP starts off with "a product made in China turns me off a bit" well then not only is China fair game, it can reasonably be said to be a main point of discussion.  

On that score anyone going after me needs to do a lot more research. Like on this thread. Notice my first post does not even mention China! Fuzztone mentioned China, but not China per se but only in the sense of build quality.

The first person to bring up China as such was tablejockey. When he does so, notice he goes straight to attacking people saying

using the "it’s made in China" reasoning is dumb.

Clearly not, and I gave a slew of eminently reasonable and undisputed facts why in support of my position. But dumb or otherwise, the fact is that prior to this at least there was reasoning going on somewhere. Tablejockey is the first to bring up China for no other purpose than to bash someone over the head, calling everyone who disagrees "dumb."

That to me fits the site guidelines of being abusive of a member and deserving of removal but unlike so many others I believe the solution is to expose not silence. I trust everyone can read my comments, follow the thread, and see precisely who it is that took it off the rails. It sure ain’t me!

As is his tube amp, his power center, his projector and most likely his oppo. Guy’s a clown, has no original thoughts of his own just parrots what he hears in the right wing echo chamber. Absolute worst poster on this site full stop.

And there it is. Doesn't take long for the "left wing" to bring politics into the conversation. Your party controls every facet of the media. Can't we please just come to an audio site to discuss audio? 

Maybe bashing China in a thread about amplifiers isn't appropriate either.  So MC doesn't get a pass. But we are all adults here, and there's nothing political in knowing what China's deal is. We all know.

Please, let's stay on topic.

Oz