Raven vs primaluna integrated amplifiers

arafiq, There is no reason to pay attention because he has no credibility. Leave the clown alone and soon he will have no one left but the other clowns to talk to. If you want to figure out who I am talking about simply pick any of the many threads that go on for pages with nothing but the same few people throwing barbs back and forth at each other. Clowns.

brianpmayer1-

my Monitor Audio Gold’s are made by a company based in England but manufactured in China. However, these speakers were purchased year’s ago and before I fully understood China’s policies and true intentions. I sincerely believe most people in China are good. However, they have been brainwashed by the CCP much like what NAZI Germany did to the people of Germany prior to WWII. My apologies for continuing this political rant on an audio blog but I feel very strongly about what is taking place in our nation and across the globe. People need to wake up and realize that if we fail to take action our children and grandchildren may one day be forced to speak Mandarin. The action I take is to support politicians who share my views and make a conscience effort to look at every label and first, purchase products made in USA and second, those not made in Communist countries. Purchasing anything "made in China" is the equivalent of feeding the monster that is going to eat you. God Bless America!

This post got no traction because the usual clowns can find nowhere to get a grip on tearing it apart. Especially since you, like me, once thought differently and are not ashamed to admit to owning some made in China. This shows we are willing and able to learn. Clowns never do. We correctly distinguish between the people and the CCP. Clowns cannot compute. Worst of all we know history, recognize patterns, and are not shy about trying to roust those around us to wake the you know what up!  

At this point, to judge by the most prolific posters, it would seem they are all deep in dream sleep. But this is why I keep talking about all the people who avoid posting but PM me directly instead. We are sounding the alarm, and we are reaching way more people than you think.

Also rarely do you ever see a Raven listed here on Agon, US Audio-mart or EBay. But tones of PL gear in the used market.
people buy Raven Audio and keep it.

Good one, thanks for the reminder. This is another one on my long list of things to research before spending my hard earned dough. Lots of guys seem to think a large discount off full retail is a good deal. They forget no deal is good unless at the end of it you have the right component.

When I went looking for my phono stage the first thing I did after deciding on Herron was go looking for one used. There were none. At first I was disappointed. But then after 6 months during which zero were listed but TWO were listed as WANTED, I realized what this meant: all those owner comments about being done looking were for real.  

So it concerned me when someone posted a comment about a Raven amp selling for cheap. But then when I went and looked that amp turned out to be ten years or something like that old, not the current generation, and the price was actually pretty strong, all things considered.

Now it pains me to have to say this, but just as a matter of pure logic saying something positive about A is not the same as saying something negative about not-A. Seems pretty obvious and few of us make it out of grade school without picking up on this, or by high school for sure, even without any courses in deductive reasoning. But a disproportionately large number of them do seem to wind up posting a lot on this site. So there you go.

Arafiq-I also posted my impressions on SQ. looks like some folks are fixated on MC.
+1 Ozzy

While it is regrettable how many threads are ruined by the wanna-bee Ahabs out there, even so I take pride and satisfaction at being their Great White Whale. I only regret that this being the internet they get to pretend their mast isn't broken, their ship not sunk. They remain legend... in their own minds.

I dislike MC  misinformation regarding Prima Luna.

What misinformation? Specify. If you can. If not then I would appreciate an apology.

I’m as excited as I can get (at this stage of life)! My Nighthawk arrives next Thursday!! Whoop whoop!

Congratulations, ironhed! Sorry about all the crap. This site is up to its eyeballs in it. Still, there is quite a lot of good info. You just have to learn who to read, and who to ignore. Once you get that down you can learn a lot real fast.

I fully expect your excitement will be rewarded and you will not be disappointed in your Nighthawk. It is the sweet spot in the Raven line. The least expensive amp with their best bespoke caps and other parts. Hope you won’t be too put off and after you have had a chance will come back and let us know what you think.

Thank you, Oz.

Nobody gets a pass on anything. But when the OP starts off with "a product made in China turns me off a bit" well then not only is China fair game, it can reasonably be said to be a main point of discussion.  

On that score anyone going after me needs to do a lot more research. Like on this thread. Notice my first post does not even mention China! Fuzztone mentioned China, but not China per se but only in the sense of build quality.

The first person to bring up China as such was tablejockey. When he does so, notice he goes straight to attacking people saying

using the "it’s made in China" reasoning is dumb.

Clearly not, and I gave a slew of eminently reasonable and undisputed facts why in support of my position. But dumb or otherwise, the fact is that prior to this at least there was reasoning going on somewhere. Tablejockey is the first to bring up China for no other purpose than to bash someone over the head, calling everyone who disagrees "dumb."

That to me fits the site guidelines of being abusive of a member and deserving of removal but unlike so many others I believe the solution is to expose not silence. I trust everyone can read my comments, follow the thread, and see precisely who it is that took it off the rails. It sure ain’t me!

but using the "it’s made in China" reasoning is dumb.

Set aside the genocide, forced organ transplants, and the fact everything in China, every business, every dollar, is ultimately under the control of the CCP, which means every dollar that goes to China supports the CCP policy of unrestricted warfare against every nation on Earth. Make pretend none of that is going on. Set all that aside.

We are still left with the fact that China has no respect for the rule of law. They steal intellectual property. They steal technology. We all know they do. Look how many threads there are about Chinese ripoffs of amps using technology stolen and copied from others. Technology developed at great cost by people in countries with the rule of law, they steal and copy shamelessly. To the extent this happens it robs the rightful developers of technology of their just rewards.

Then on top of that something else we all know, not all solder joints are created equal. A great solder joint takes great skill. Either that or great facilities. If you want it done at Raven level you are not going to find it in China, where fast and cheap is the order of the day. Face it, no one builds anything in China for quality. China is for fast and cheap. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

Finally, on top of everything else, with PL you are looking at the difference between a corporate product and a personal product. With PL made in China you have no idea who did what. When there is a problem who do you even deal with? Your dealer? Or PL? Or China? When you have a problem with Raven there is no doubt. This is Dave Thompsons product. Dave Thompson stands behind it.

You can dismiss all this if you want. But please don’t call it dumb. That would be what psychologists call projecting.

I have yet to hear one. But I DYODD to a considerable degree and have been narrowed down to a Raven for a long time now. 

Before spending that kind of money I dig into it paying attention to every little detail. Like, did you notice they alternate brands of resistors and types of solder throughout the amp? Why? Listen to the video and see. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcd76DZmbdY&t=304s

Search around for willgolf he has owned and heard a number of them. Experienced listeners like willgolf are a big factor in having narrowed the field down to this one amp.

Also yes, made in the USA. Even better: Made in Texas! 😁