Even from the grave, when Sammy G. reaches out, witnesses change their story. Color me impressed!
Quincy Jones Interview
124 responses Add your response
I'm not a big QJ fan, but he did some interesting things over the years. Check out "In The Heat of the Night" soundtrack, with Ray Charles. But he's wrong about the Beatles. Even drunk, I would never say such a thing. That stuff is hard to play well, even though it's deceptively simple. It's a lot more complex than it looks. He was right to apologize, but I think it was for the Jackson thing. |
No opinion one way or the other. Just sharing recent news - http://start.att.net/news/read/article/page_six-michael_jacksons_family_is_furious_with_quincy_jon-r... |
"All Things Must Pass" as good as at least half of the Beatle albums. "Cloud 9" and "Brainwashed" are also very strong. To me, John was the least compelling solo artist--although "Imagine" and "Instant Karma" as singles were tres cool. McCartney's first album, "Ram" and "Chaos and Creation in the Backyard" were all good. I like "New" a bit as well as "Venus and Mars" but they are a bit kitchy. Clearly each tempered the other's weaknesses. |
I didn’t love any of their post-Beatles solo albums (though McCartney’s s/t debut and it’s follow-up, Ram, have their charms), and I’ve always felt it was because their collective chemistry is what made The Beatles as good as they were. It was the songwriting and harmony singing (modeled on The Everly Brothers, whom they idolized). On his own, Paul is too sweet for my taste, John too sour. Plus he had Yoko dragging him down ;-). George was always my "favorite Beatle", but he wasn’t much of a singer. He put out a pretty good final album, though. It included a recording of an obscure 1950’s Rockabilly song ("Got My Mind Set On You") that I liked a lot, produced by the great Jeff Lynne of ELO. The music George and Jeff made together in The Traveling Wilbury’s is by far my favorite that any of them made post-Beatles. |
Let's imagine some alternate reality where the Beatles never existed, but J,P,G & R still had rock and roll careers. RINGO - bounced from band to band, becomes well-known host of pop music TV show. Always a tech head, was early investor in Apple and is still one of the 20 largest individual shareholders. GEORGE - long term collaborator with Donovan and then Cat Stevens. Releases several solo albums to little commercial success. Leaves music for a period, but returned as Stevie Winwood's touring guitarist for 20 years. JOHN - upon his release from prison relocates to NYC and co-founds the Velvet Underground. Convicted of leading major drug distribution ring, but claims he was framed by the FBI and flees overseas before sentencing. Last heard of location is in the jungles of Peru with Maoist revolutionaries. PAUL - writes 15 to 20 number one hits for other artists. Brings Hendrix to England, produces the albums and is the original bass player in the Experience. Later forms a band with a piano player/singer named Elton and that band sells 100 million albums. My point is that individually they all would have had impact, but there was something magical about when they worked together. They can't really be separated. |
tubegroover AGREE with respondents that say Paul was the musical force of that group. It's so obvious when one listens to each of their subsequent solo efforts if it wasn't obvious before which it sure was to me. Speaking of their solo efforts, is there one better than the superb first of George Harrison, "All Things Must Pass" the quiet, unsung Beatle, maybe my favorite solo album of any of the Beatles. "Imagine" if you can a more mundane song than that one, never got it maybe someone can clue me in? Uh, somebody's not paying much attention to the headlines these days. |
OK Shadorne, metoo, but would it have been a topic that even would have come up in this conversation a year or so ago? I don't mean to dismiss your point but are we going to go so OFF TOPIC by including the character of John Lennon in regard to his treatment of women? The man has been dead for 37 years. There are PLENTY of guilty men in their treatment of women at some point in their lives, things they wish they could change privately if never admit to. Often in such matters it's a matter of like father, like son, boars breed bores. AGREE with respondents that say Paul was the musical force of that group. It's so obvious when one listens to each of their subsequent solo efforts if it wasn't obvious before which it sure was to me. Speaking of their solo efforts, is there one better than the superb first of George Harrison, "All Things Must Pass" the quiet, unsung Beatle, maybe my favorite solo album of any of the Beatles. "Imagine" if you can a more mundane song than that one, never got it maybe someone can clue me in? The Beatles were a unique group in the history of Western popular music. It isn't particularly about their special musicianship, or their pop appeal/charm or just their music, but their collective accomplishments along with the fifth wheel George Martin who can't be denied his contribution to the whole of what they became, a cultural, popular musical phenom of the mid 20th Century. Whether the music will endure in the future, I would ask the same of Gershwin Kern Berlin, Ellington Rogers or the many other great songwriters, We'll never know. How many know about Paganini or List in their hayday? If not for the film Amadeus how about Mozart? So far as Quincy Jones is concerned, yes, he made some unfortunate comments, maybe even based in jealousy as has been suggested by his lack of musical chops, so what, he was good at what he did and so far as his opinions they are nothing more or less than those expressed by mine or anyone else's, Take what you like and discard what you don't, nothing's perfect! |
Clickbaits from interviews are very popular these days and I’m sure Quincy said fairly innocuous things for most of this one but the 3 or 4 that would elicit OMGs were pushed forward as being the most important ones he said. Sort of like sitting at Thanksgiving dinner only focusing on the 2 or 3 tasteless comments your drunken uncle spews out over the dessert... |
For the record, I know what I like and don’t like. That doesn’t make me a snob. Never said or will say that my taste is better than someone else’s. Always open to new exciting things and I am always open to learning new things. life is short to think I’m there. Got a long way to go. took out my Beatles revolver, white album, and 1967-1970 albums just to check and realized that sgt. pepper and a few others are missing. WTH? still think delicate sound of thunder is better musically than dark side of the moon. But that’s me. i don’t understand how albums develop legs and walk away. interesting |
I agree with many of the posts here. I was absolutely not trying to disparage the music of the Beatles. Far from it.. However, I was commenting on Quincy's comments and I totally agreed with his assessment of the Beatle's skill playing (back then during that time). They of course got better and their song writing (when they did it), was pretty good. But to call me a snob???!!!!! Ha, that's really funny. Nothing but music from all cultures in my house when I was growing up and even today. We appreciated all good music. Classical (I was first chair violinist), rock, blues, Jazz, R&B, Brazillian, etc. you name it. my definition of a snob is someone that tells you what you like. Several Beatles songs I like. many I don't, but I wasn't talking about their music or songs. But, as usual, it is my opinion based on what I know, heard, saw, experienced. no need to call me names. Sorry if I stepped on toes, just like Quincy did. one can choose to believe him or not. your choice. My family is based on listening to the elders speak and their experience. I've heard a lot of really unbelievable things in my day that were said and done and yes, most were true. I've also seen a lot that most won't believe. most people (going far off base) didn't believe that LAPD planted evidence until the OJ case (yes, he still did it, in my opinion). But people in my community knew about that type of thing long before that case came to light. How many people stood up arguing against something like that ever happening? The LAPD??? no way. We it did and does. It actually happened to me. Cops planted drugs in my car after I made the mistake of turning left on a green light while a cop was following me. this was in the 1980s. I never smoked, took drugs, etc. I was the poster boy for goodie two shoes. Athlete in college and just picked up a brand new car from the dealer taking it home after final inspections and they find drugs in the trunk after an illegal inspection. Yeah right. They actually let me go after I started laughing when they showed it to me and ran my background. Could have ended much worse. but I know what I read and heard and saw and experienced. Wild times back then. Definitely not a snob. That is really funny. enjoy |
Good point mapman, about the Lennon/McCartney songs authorship. Once they went solo, it became rather apparent, if one couldn’t already tell, which of them wrote any particular later Beatles song. I believe by the time of Rubber Soul, they were no longer writing together. Also, as time went on, the writer of the song sang the lead vocal or melody. They even let George sing Taxman. ;-) By the way, that song has a fantastic guitar solo (go ahead, listen to it right now!), which even a Jazz guitarist would be proud to say he played. It was, in fact, played by Paul McCartney. Anyone who says The Beatles weren’t good musicians has a very different concept of good than do I. |
Schubert its generally known fact that not all songs credited to Lennon-McCartney were in fact written by both, especially in the latter years. Their arrangement was all songs the two of them did with The Beatles were credited to both, however many credited to Lennon/Mccartney were written solely by either Lennon or McCartney. Other that that it is a pretty safe bet that the songs that were credited as written by one or more members of The Beatles were in fact. No shenanigan's there! Regarding The Monkees, most all of their earlier songs were written by others and credited accordingly, but I believe many of their latter songs were in fact written by group members. Not to say that they may not have still had some help. Not sure about that. |
Thx Bdp24 for sharing I must listen more to Big Pink so far I didn’t get into them in any way even having listened extensively. Just to be clear on above post, I have nothing but total admiration for the hard working talented band of The Beatles - just not my go to group for technical musical jaw-dropping prowess in fact far from it - rather ho hum on that dimension. |
Thanks for the links Frogman. I remember Leonard Bernstein as a big Beatles fan and champion. In fact, he gave my parents reason to pause and listen to the point where they understood the music, loved some of it, and began to understand the feelings of the younger generation of which I was a member. Who cares if they were the best musicians? They made the best music. |
"I have no idea why Cream broke up. Eric wanted to go solo maybe?" Eric revealed why he ended Cream in his interview in The Last Waltz: "Music had been going in the wrong direction for a long time. When I heard Music From Big Pink (The Band's debut album, of course), I thought: Well, someone has finally gone and done it right. The album made me excited, but also disturbed." Somewhat paraphrased, but that's the gist of it. Eric bought a case of Music From Big Pink LP's, put them in the trunk of his car, and gave a copy to everyone he knew, telling them "You've GOT to hear this." He told Jack and Ginger he wasn't interested in continuing Cream, and went up to Saugerties, New York (where The Band lived) to hang with The Band, waiting, as he now laughs about, for them to ask him to join. It finally dawned on him they didn't require or desire his services, so he left, and started on the second phase of his musical career. Think about that for a second. The leader of the biggest band in the world dissolves that band because he hears an album by another band, one that makes music he feels makes his own irrelevant. Music From Big Pink had that effect on every musician I knew, completely changing our idea of how music should be played, of what made a band good, of what superior musicianship was. I had to start over from the beginning, learning how to play all over again, but now at least knowing what really made a musician a "good" one. For me (and a lot of musicians I knew), groups like The Beatles were over; their time had past. They made some great music, some pretty good music, some okay music, and some dreadful music. To critique them in terms of their individual technical abilities is so wrongheaded as to defy belief! I realize the above could be interpreted as supporting the argument that the members of The Beatles weren't "the best" musicians around. So what? They were good enough to play the kind of music they were making REALLY well. Their music was not about the technical abilities of the individual musicians---they were a Pop Group, not a Jazz quartet. Horses for courses! |
Beatles were clearly not great individual technical musicians but extremely talented song writers (especially together) with some good production talent behind them (the fifth Beatle). Nobody went to see the Beatles for the musicianship - they could not hold a candle to the likes of Eddie Van Halen, Knopfler, Clapton, Jeff Beck, Elton John and the list goes on and on. Beatles were like Bowie - great song writers - great melodies and highly innovative pushing their art in new directions... I can see why professional musicians like Quincy can be frustrated by the self taught. Tom Petty could not even read music and he wrote countless hits and like the Beatles nobody went to see Tom play his guitar although Mike Campbell was supremely competent. |
The Beatles used to play up to 7 hours a night in Hamburg. They learned everything by ear and by "seat of the pants." They assimilated the music by the masters of rock and roll, pop and country. Then they took pop music where it had never been before. Face it, you're a snob, Minori, and apparently out of your element when not discussing jazz. I think you should stick to what you know. Also, please produce the documentation that proves the Beatles were bad musicians--I'd love to see it and I think others here would as well. |
frogman; I appreciate and welcome your input and response. I'm not saying that they were the worst musicians in the world. I think If I picked up a guitar, that would probably be me. violin on the other hand was a different story. We are not talking about their music at all. Leonard Bernstein was correct. I'm talking about the playing talent. especially at the time that Quincy is talking about. They just weren't that good. I think we can agree to disagree on this one and notice that you and I aren't going back and forth insulting each other. I don't understand why people do that here. To me, when they got away from the pop music and screaming fans, their music became much better. I think that is what also broke them up. Musical differences, style and taste. John wanted more esoteric style. I think they grew apart style wise. But that is another story. I don't think it was a money issue or an issue of who should be the highlighter as with other bands. Rufus and Chaka Khan for example. Rufus was the music and the writing. Both were diminished when they split. I have no idea why Cream broke up. Eric wanted to go solo maybe? Anyway, some people take Quincy's interview as the ranting of a disgruntled old guy. I don't see it that way at all. exaggeration? maybe a little. but I think he was right about much of what he said. I imagine the scenario was that some outstanding musicians were in the room and heard them play with them and they looked at each other and said, "who are these guys? they really can't play well". Again, I was not in the room, but guess what? he was, and he was around some real talent back in the day. Not saying the Beatles weren't. I'm talking about Miles, Coletrane, Rollins, Sinatra, etc. So, I think there was a serious culture clash and a little anger over the discrepancy of funds. Makes me wonder, if Jazz and Blues went away and we were left with only Rock, head bangers, etc. would mainstreamers miss it? Sorry for the long post. A short story. When my Daughter was growing up as a child and teenager, she was into the music of her age. The funny thing was that when she went to College, she and her friends got into Jazz and albums also. amazing. Anyway, I think the interview was very good and revealing. Yes he is older and probably annoyed at some of the success of other styles versus the ridiculous circumstances they had to go through back in the day, but that does not mean he is wrong or lying. Anyway, my take. I respect your opinion. enjoy |
minorl, I appreciate your interest in these topics and you obviously have an inquisitive mind when it comes to music. However, what you and others fail to understand is what bdp24, myself and others have tried to explain and that is that there is much more to being a good musician than sheer technical prowess; especially when comparing different genres of music which place very different types of demands on musicians. Since music can be such a personal and emotional thing for all of us, there is a tendency to seriously under estimate just how much there is to learn and understand about it and what being a musician is all about. With respect (and I base this only on what you have written here), you, like all of us, have a lot to learn. I won’t repeat the details of what I and others wrote previously on this subject. I do think it’s important to get grounded again and get back to what it was that started this disagreement. It was Quincy Jones’ ridiculous comment that The Beatles were “the worst musicians in the world”. Now, we can disagree as to their individual technical ability, but when considering their other musical talents it becomes obvious that Q’s comments about them (and others) were not grounded in reality. You seem to put a lot of stock in what has been “well documented”. Well, there is little in all that is music and that is “well documented” that carries as much weight, validity and relevance as the fact that Leonard Bernstein was one of the very greatest musical minds (as multi-genre composer, conductor and educator) ever. I highly recommend that you listen to his comments about the music of The Beatles and then consider if they really are anything other than important musicians; never mind “worst in the world”. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1CDz62GNx1A https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PMMe3iwBV-I |
When it comes to Jazz and Blues players I was talking about back then. I was not referring to the ones today. not taking away from anyone today, but that is not what I was talking about. And in my opinion and many others, yes, they were the best. Sorry about the misspelling of Beatles. However, most rock musicians back in the day learned from the best Jazz and Blues players. That is a known fact. and couldn't hold a candle to them back then. I recently saw a documentary of rock musician side men (forgot the name) on Netflix I believe. it was fantastic. Those people could really play. So yeah there are first rate musicians in every category. has to be. But, popular music is mostly bells and whistles and not skill. not to say there aren't many that can really rock. Also, to "develop" into a fine bass player is one thing. But when you are sitting in a room with some of the very best and you are developing. Well, again, that is what Quincy was talking about. I don't disparage them their popularity and fame. More power to them. They had to learn their craft. Sooner or later they had to play in front of people that know what they were hearing and seeing. So yeah, they did learn. And I do agree with you about the issue of race. certain people can't or wont deal with it. The believe what they want to believe instead of facts and see what they choose to see only. it is sad and scary even now. But I'll stand by Quincy's assessments. I've seen and heard similar. Don't get me wrong. I like and appreciate the Rolling Stones. I can't believe they are still playing. But to demand that James Brown who always (at that time) had sold out venues open for a newbie band most hadn't yet hear of was insulting. And yes, I can believe that at one time Jimmy Hendrix was "afraid" to play with those artist. yeah, I can see that, at one time. Doesn't mean he wasn't very good, but afraid, okay, i can see that. This wasn't like when Prince was on stage with Clapton and many other established guitarist. he blew them off the stage and showed the world that he was one of the best guitarist period. his superbowl half time performance is still too me the best haft time performance. In a heavy rain, he didn't miss a step or beat and was outstanding. I remember Ashford and Simpson (great song writers by-the-way). I just didn't appreciate how good she really was until I hear her highlighted on Quincy's albums. Wow. what a voice. enjoy |
Minori, it's Beatles, not beetles. Paul developed into one of the finest bass players in rock. George was a very good guitarist. It's also inaccurate to say that jazz and blues players are the best in the world. There are first rate musicians in all types of music. Other than that, I largely agree with you. The issue of race is an prominent undercurrent in the history of pop music in America, but it's my observation that many posters using this forum just can't deal with it. But that is reflection of the larger society. |
Sorry, I have to disagree humbly. It is well documented that the beetles weren't very good musicians. However, set that aside for a minute. When you put excellent musicians that spent their life in classical or other music training in the same room with a bunch of people that didn't have such training, many times (not always), there will be a marked difference in skill sets. That is what Quincy Jones is talking about. It was probably a little anger over how really great jazz musicians weren't appreciated by the general public. Mostly because, (yes I have to go there), it was considered Black music or Devil's music. It was not mainstream and was not accepted by the younger people as much. So, you see these less talented young people getting paid!!!! and the public going crazy (not all the public liked the beetles by-the-way). The best musicians on the planet (Jazz and blues artist) weren't even noticed for various reasons. some I mentioned earlier. and yes, that would be a sore spot for someone like Quincy. Look at Miles Davis. When exactly did he really start to make real money? Not accounting for horrible companies, managers, and payola. It was probably around bitches Brew. When He went more mainstream with fusion and other avenues. Not pure jazz. Couldn't make real money that way. Younger people tend to not want to hear what older people (that were there and experienced it all) have to say. they choose to believe what they want to believe instead of appreciating what the ones that were in the mix of it all saw, experienced and heard. I remember some of the parties with the "beautiful people". entertainers, athletes, wannabies, etc. bowls of drugs on tables for anyone that wanted. people slept with almost whomever they wanted. it was really wild and crazy. not in a good way. If you wanted to advance, you slept with people, you took drugs just to be part of the in-crowd. I watched and learned, and didn't participate, but realized that once the door was opened to certain things, it was really hard for people to close it. Quincy Jones is one of the few remaining people that has been there and done that and bought the tee shirt. Again, if you can, go look at his albums when he was the producer. See the names of the artist that clamored to be on each and every one of his albums. Sinatra asked Quincy to produce him. Sinatra!!!! man oh man. Michael Jackson!!!! So yeah, when he talks I would listen. He didn't sound addled. He sounded like he finally didn't care who's toes he stepped on. People put items and groups on pedestals. The Beetles???? yes, I appreciate their music. But great musicians??? no way. Because he was Black, James Brown had to agree to open for the new group the Rolling Stones. James Brown opened for them when he was most popular. That was only because he was black. However, read the interview about the Rolling Stones. They said that he naturally killed and they had to follow an impossible act. They learned his style and used it. It is what it is. so yes, I read a little anger and resentment in his interview. People are saying "why is he saying this now instead of earlier" Well he did in some ways, I remember other interviews, but, also why are women coming forward now about sexual assaults that happened years ago? Because they feel it is time and now the repercussions may not be as bad. and maybe they feel it is time to get some things off their chest. maybe. Also, the interviewer asked him pointed questions. He probably figured, what the hell, what do I have to lose? |
“The only justification for looking down on anyone, is that you're going to stop and pick them up” - Quincy Jones “I tell my kids and I tell proteges, always have humility when you create and grace when you succeed, because it's not about you” - Quincy Jones “I was the most subtle person in the world” - Quincy Jones Something is wrong with this picture. |
John Lennon was a very good rhythm guitarist (Don Everly was a FANTASTIC one!). Is Quincy Jones even aware of the function rhythm guitar plays in Rock ’n’ Roll music? I doubt it. That is just one example of what makes his opinion of The Beatles as musicians irrelevant. The fact that playing rhythm guitar does not take a lot of technique does not mean it is easy to do well, or that it does not require skills of a particular sort. Technique is a matter of the body being trained to perform physical acts, and is only one element of musicianship. Part of superior musicianship is knowing what NOT to play (a non-technique skill), and that is a major element in the playing of rhythm guitar. Rock ’n’ Roll music greatly benefits from superior rhythm guitar parts. That’s why Jeff Lynne’s production of Tom Petty was so successful; there are acoustic rhythm guitar parts all over that album, and Petty’s music is the better for it. The thing is, Jazz guys don’t respect Rock ’n Roll as a music, and don’t understand the principles involved that make one practitioner of it superior to another. The skill set involved in R & R music are very different from that in Jazz. As Keith Moon replied when asked if he could play in The Buddy Rich Big Band: "No, and Buddy Rich couldn’t play in The Who." |
Okay regarding Jimi Hendrix being scared or afraid I have to laugh, that isn’t true and that is not what happened. Quincy FAILED to mention that Miles Davis loved Jimi’s playing and wanted to play with him. Miles when asked about Jimi Hendrix was quoted "That mothefucking Machine Gun"! The issue was that Miles wanted $50,000.00 up front to play. Guess what, it didn’t happen. You have to remember that Jimi’s manger Mike Jeffrey didn’t want any group except for the original Jimi Hendrix Experience with Noel redding on bass. Rumor has it that he Jeffrey broke up the Band of Gypsys with Buddy Miles on drums. Many Jazz musicians were barely making it and saw how much Jimi was making as an performer. There was no afraid in the story. Also remember that Miles attended Jimi’s funeral which says a lot right there. Where was Quincy jones then? Chasing Peggy Lipton around the room most likely! Jimi did play with various musicians including John McLaughlin who we know became famous later on. Jimi had a scheduled jam with the Grateful Dead but blew them off that evening after meeting up with a girl. Quincy is a great producer but is spinning tales of BS now. |
I was at a party in the early 70s after working on a Delaney and Bonnie show in Honolulu. Delaney wound up sitting next to me and we talked for a long time about stuff…amazing guy…he said he thought Ringo was the best rock and roll drummer in music, period, and he'd recently been hanging around with the English dudes. I thought that was pretty cool, although hey…those sort of statements are taken with a grain of salt of course, but to say that the Beatles weren't good musicians is ridiculous…I've been a professional musician for 50 years and remain astonished by Beatles music, and I mix live concerts with the best musicians on the planet. John wrote songs that still resonate everywhere and although he couldn't play like John Scofield or Joe Pass, who cares really? Get the Hollywood Bowl concert recording re-mix and ask yourself if they play well during incessant screaming (did they have monitors? I wonder)…they did play beautifully, utterly kick ass, and that's sort of what defined them in the early years. Jazz geniuses often perform Beatles stuff because it's simply great music, and if people don't agree with that I don't think it matters. |
Ringo Starr was considered by some (many? most?) to be the worst musician in The Beatles (not true; John was ;-), yet he had a fair number of defenders who were themselves well respected by their Jazz peers. One such was Gregg Bissonnette, the drummer in Maynard Ferguson’s Big Band, who is one of Ringo’s most vocal defenders. Some people get, some don’t. |
