PROTOTYPE FUSES - NEW THREAD

Unless the company is going to offer others the ability to beta test does knowing it’s name afford others to formulate informed opinions?

SR Blue was better than red,  Orange was better than Blue.  QSA yellow is better for me than Orange.  So for those in the fuse swapping business, what's good for Frank is not necessarily good for the rest of us.  For Frank, he likes the mysterious fuse.  I wonder what my impact is given I have SR orange Duplex boxes?   Maybe the best of both worlds.  

I just wish Frank would tell us what company is making this fuse so we can form our own opinions.  I don't get why the Company has not given Frank the go-ahead to make the announcement.  C'mon Frank talk to the company.

@pauly 

I can understand why somebody would be skeptical and refrain from trying audiophile fuses, but I am perplexed as to why anyone would feel compelled to claim they do not work when they have not even tried them?

I had this exact thought when reading about isolation footers. The only difference with some here is that I never shared my scepticism with anyone. It was along the lines of "how can items placed under my amp makes a positive and noticeable difference."
You know, better separation, lower noise floor, wider sound stage etc

Ended up trying/buying Black Ravioli Pads.

Notes at the time:
"A set of 4 each for the Dac and Dac power supply.
A set of 4 underneath the amp.
It has brought all the changes I've made, together.
Synergy, I'd call it.
Really enjoying the music.
Seems that was what I was missing.
My cynicism has disappeared. BR Pads work.
Although pricey, they are well worth it; an investment."

Have since upgraded to Black Ravioli Big Pads for the amp.

“ what would set me free

is if everybody experienced

what happened to ME “

Eagles

added emphasis, mine…

Play it loud. 

I tried a QSA light blue two weeks ago mainly because of what I heard on these boards. I was amazed at the improvement it made to my system. I expected it could perhaps make a slight change, but it turned out to be very noticeable. So much so that I am upgrading all my fuses and my heightened interest in Franks threads.

If fuses made no difference in my system I would say so. I have no skin in the game and I paid full retail.

I can understand why somebody would be skeptical and refrain from trying audiophile fuses, but I am perplexed as to why anyone would feel compelled to claim they do not work when they have not even tried them? 

Objective listening impressions are not scientific.

Empirical observation is the basis for scientific learning. Instruments have to be constantly calibrated. The combination of man’s sense plus his (or her) brain is one of the most powerful measuring devices on the planet.


millercarbon, be (play) nice...☺

My system has transformed over the years.
Age affords upgrades (modestly done).
Internet aids research and discussion.

The icing on the cake has to be power cables, interconnects, power supplies, USB/SPIDF converters, grounding boxes, fuses, isolation pads.

My ears are the tools.
My pleasure is the measurement.

Can anyone explain how fuses affect audio quality?

They don't, unless they are like what below in the link.

cerberus79
A few months ago I purchased a used pair of speakers from another Agon member.
To my surprise all the fuses were Orange fuses. I listened to them and then to satisfy my curiosity I replaced them with ordinary buss fuses and could not hear a difference.
I did this test with a bunch of friends and neither I or them could hear a difference. Kind of just says it all doesn't it?

To those non technical thinking of purchasing these $$$ fuses. Just save your $150+ and do this instead.

A fuse:
1: two end caps
2: short piece of fuse wire connecting the two end caps through a glass tube (that’s all she wrote).

To those "non technical" members that are interested in "maybe" wasting their money, do not listen to the non-technical, listen to the technicians of this industry that design the audio products you have and listen to. AND YOU WON"T SEE THEM ON THREADS LIKE THIS AGREEING WITH WHAT SAID HERE ABOUT THE SOUND IMPROVMENT DETAILS AND AC FUSE PLACEMENT DIRECTION, EVER!!!
Just clean and tighten your fuse holder and re-new your fuse (if old) with a good quality 50cent Bussman, Littlefuse or similar.As with "many switch-on surges" they do deteriorate, bend, stretch and get crusty with electrolysis formations on their fusible wire elements before they give out, as these pics show of a fuse wire element ageing over time show. https://ibb.co/9NbTwqK (even the $$$ boutique ones will age just as much also)

Cheers George

Objective listening impressions are not scientific.

"Objective listening"? Is that a new ninja technique? Listening is always subjective.

Listening is observation. Observation is accepted scientific proof. Go back to school.

You can measure an amplifier’s distortion of a given signal.

Sure we can. But no measurement of amplifier distortion will give us an indication of what it sounds like or how musical it is.

Surely it would be easy to compare fuses using these measurements if they made any actual difference.

Sure it’s easy to measure fuses and compare them. But like measuring amplifier distortion levels, it’s not going to tell you what they sound like.


Anything else I can help you with?

Can anyone explain how fuses affect audio quality?

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sure you pay for a fuse and if YOU don't like it, return it, if you do like it, you keep it.

You have the same information as everyone else, try it and THEN make a statement of facts.. "I liked it", "I returned it", here is the reason OR NOT, that's up to you.. No one here is SELLING you, on anything.. You have to buy it.

BTW they DON'T have to sell it to YOU either.. No matter who you are.

Like I've always said cables and tweaks account for 5-10% of the overall SQ.. I've noticed a difference back to ACME gold fuses 30+ years ago in 12 & 24VDC systems. Good heavy cabling and electrical enhancements like graphite and silver chips mixed with high quality terminal ends and high pressure cold weld. Add it all up, it's quit a treat..

Regards

in short, no a fuse does not eliminate clipping but might save the bacon as it happens. The bacon may include your amplifier.

This is why you want to pick your self appointed expert carefully….

Power supply fuses not only protect the house but the power supply. Clipping may or may not take out a fuse.

Effects[edit]Difference between clipped and maximum unclipped waveformsSpectrograph showing the odd-order harmonics of a sine wave pushed into hard clipping

In a transistorized amplifier with hard clipping, the gain of the transistor will be reducing (leading to nonlinear distortion) as the output current increases and the voltage across the transistor reduces close to the saturation voltage (for bipolar transistors), and so "full power" for the purposes of measuring distortion in amplifiers is usually taken as a few percent below clipping.

Because the clipped waveform has more area underneath it than the smaller unclipped waveform, the amplifier produces more power than its rated (sine wave) output when it is clipping. This extra power can damage the loudspeaker. It may cause damage to the amplifier's power supply or simply blow a fuse.

elangley01

Objective listening impressions are not scientific.

Sure they are. Objective observations are fundamental to the scientific method.

You can measure an amplifier’s distortion of a given signal.

And so can you! Please share your results if you undertake the effort.

Objective listening impressions are not scientific. 
You can measure an amplifier’s distortion of a given signal. Surely it would be easy to
compare fuses using these measurements if they made any actual difference.

tomic601 ...

Thanks ...

This Acoustic Sounds  "UHQR" reissue of Kind of Blue really is something special. I checked it out on eBay this morning, and the lowest price I could find was right at 200 bucks. Wonderful sounding, and comes in beautiful packaging. Once out of print, it will undoubtedly increase in value over time. 

Frank

Frank nice to know you appreciate Acoustic Sounds work. I find when they have access to the master tape and it’s in great shape - magic happens. :-) enjoy the music.

@cleeds 

Observation is a fundamental part of the scientific method

Don’t expect know-it-all’s to understand scientific method. It wasn’t taught in special ed. 

Fascinating. How is a fuse going to prevent clipping?

Are there fuses in non-powered speakers to prevent clipping?

@oregonpapa you know, it does seem that the SR Orange is giving more of that 'high end audiophile' experience, with the detail, clarity and separation.

I thought the QSA Yellow, hard to describe, maybe more richness, more body to the sound in a way - didn't really think much more detail, but I'll get confirmation with the QSA purple/violet. 

cd45123 ...

I'm curious ... did you, like myself and my audiophile friends, find that the SR Orange fuse provided a more complete musical experience than the QSA Yellow fuse? 

I'm looking forward to you and millercarbon's reportings on the QSA Violet fuse. 

Frank

@oregonpapa Putting two and two together here - so this is likely an SR fuse to be announced in 3 weeks. It'll be a new color I guess for the naming.

I've got a QSA Purple fuse on the way. I've listened to Yellow - it's good, not setting the world on fire, but I found the changes it made subtle, same with the SR Orange.

In my experience, it's been a 10-15% improvement in separation, attack, decay, etc.

@cleeds,

Not whole lot to gain in trying to reason with flat-earthers like @elangley01. For proof, read up on his responses and you will know :-)

https://forum.audiogon.com/users/elangley01/posts

Lol 

elangley01

No evidence that fuses make any impact on sound quality.

There has actually been quite a bit of evidence regarding fuses and sound quality right in this very thread. You can’t make things like empirical evidence just disappear by pretending they don’t exist.

Observation is a fundamental part of the scientific method. Measurementalists here often shrink from it.

elangley01 ...

"Sounds like a whole lot of placebo effect. No evidence that fuses make any impact on sound quality."

Other than listening for differences, and noting those differences, do you have another way to measure sound quality? Is there a meter that can be used to measure the tonal accuracy of instruments? Are there scientific instruments that can detect the three-dimensionality of a sound stage? Can the personalities and human artifacts presented by vocalists be measured in some way other than through listening? If you have a way of doing so, please post it. Thanks ... 

Placebo effect? Hardly.

Frank

Sounds like a whole lot of placebo effect. No evidence that fuses make any impact on sound quality. 

fbgbill ...

• "Kind of just says it all doesn’t it?"

Nope, sorry but it doesn’t say it all. The fuses were not used in speakers in either my system or my friend’s system. They are being used in electronics. In my case, the amp, line stage, and phono stage. The differences in using each brand of fuses are quite profound and can easily be heard.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yoby ...

• The yellow is more detailed, but that’s not what really what I’m after in my system.

Exactly. Like you, I found the QSA Yellow fuse to be more detailed than the SR Orange fuse. It was impressive initially, but upon listening further it just didn’t have that "connection." It kind of reminded me of brewing a pot of coffee with really good coffee and then discovering that you miscounted and left a scoop out of the mix.

If one is into this hobby for HiFi artifacts, and sits with his/her friends and says ... "OK guys, get ready ... here comes the bass drum! Listen for it!" ... then perhaps the QSA Yellow fuse would be the way to go instead of the SR Orange fuse.

If, on the other hand, one is into the hobby for pure musical enjoyment then the SR Orange would be the choice.

If one wants to put Miles, Coltrane, and Adderly in the room in all of their musical splendor, then the new Prototype fuse is the one to have.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

jafant ...

• What happened to the 1st thread ?

There were way too many deleted threads written by our teenager in residence for the old thread to make any sense anymore. Hopefully, he’s been sent to his room for a time out and can behave in a more adult fashion in the future. :-)

Frank

PS: Guys, get that Kind of Blue album. It is amazing.

Please help me understand what is said here. I know folks have opinions both for and agains fuses. I get it. But does this imply there were fuses in the speakers? Were these powered speakers? 

cerberus79
A few months ago I purchased a used pair of speakers from another Agon member.
To my surprise all the fuses were Orange fuses. I listened to them and then to satisfy my curiosity I replaced them with ordinary buss fuses and could not hear a difference.
I did this test with a bunch of friends and neither I or them could hear a difference. Kind of just says it all doesn't it?

Can anyone explain how fuses affect audio quality?

They don't but if they've seen many switch on cycles this can have an effect.

 cerberus79
A few months ago I purchased a used pair of speakers from another Agon member.
To my surprise all the fuses were Orange fuses. I listened to them and then to satisfy my curiosity I replaced them with ordinary buss fuses and could not hear a difference.
I did this test with a bunch of friends and neither I or them could hear a difference. Kind of just says it all doesn't it?

To those non technical thinking of purchasing these $$$ fuses. Just save your $150+ and do this instead.

A fuse:
1: two end caps
2: short piece of fuse wire connecting the two end caps through a glass tube (that’s all she wrote).

To those "non technical" members that are interested in "maybe" wasting their money, do not listen to the non-technical, listen to the technicians of this industry that design the audio products you have and listen to. AND YOU WON"T SEE THEM ON THREADS LIKE THIS AGREEING WITH WHAT SAID HERE ABOUT THE SOUND IMPROVMENT DETAILS AND AC FUSE PLACEMENT DIRECTION, EVER!!!
Just clean and tighten your fuse holder and re-new your fuse (if old) with a good quality 50cent Bussman, Littlefuse or similar.As with "many switch-on surges" they do deteriorate, bend, stretch and get crusty with electrolysis formations on their fusible wire elements before they give out, as these pics show of a fuse wire element ageing over time show. https://ibb.co/9NbTwqK (even the $$$ boutique ones will age just as much also)

Cheers George

Can anyone explain how fuses affect audio quality? 

What happened to the 1st thread ?

Happy Listening!

Hi Frank: You give an excellent and useful description of the three fuses. Thank you for the enthusiasm for music that you provide us. I have the orange fuses in my preamp and amps. I just auditioned a QSA yellow fuse in my preamp and I agree with your assessment. The orange is more musically engaging. The yellow is more detailed, but that's not what really what I'm after in my system. Jeff

pauly ...

I believe that both fast and slo-blow will be offered.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We had a wonderful five-hour listening session today. The system sounded fantastic.

My friend has a terrific record collection and a multitude of high-quality recordings, specifically high-quality reissues.

The gem of the day was his copy of Miles’ "Kind of Blue" reissued by Analogue Productions. It’s the "UHQR" reissue that is pressed on clear vinyl. This is the closest to having real instruments playing in the room as I’ve ever heard. I have the original six-eye stereo, and several reissues, including a Japanese reissue of this recording. I’ve always found the original to sound the best, until today. If you want the best version of Kind of Blue, seek out the Analogue Productions reissue. It is amazing.

Now then, back to the fuses ... My friend heard what I’ve been reporting about the prototype fuses, in that they allow for a major increase in realism because the music is presented in a more relaxed manner akin to live music. It’s as though someone not only cleaned the glass window through which we listen, but removed the window altogether.

We discussed how the prototype fuses stack up against the QSA Yellow fuses. Here it is in a nutshell: The prototype fuses kill the SR Orange fuses. My friend had the QSA Yellow fuses in his system and went back to his SR Orange fuses because he felt they are more involving from a musical standpoint. I concur. The prototype fuse is the better fuse of the three, hands down.

The prototype fuses are totally involving. While listening to the Kind of Blue album, I pointed out to my friend that we were both doing the old toe-tapping thing. He made the comment that he didn’t even realize he was doing it until I pointed it out. He was just totally immersed in the music. Me too. What a great album. What great fuses.

Frank

Hey Pauly,

Check this out:

https://www.tweekgeek.com/quantum-science-audio-5-x-20mm-slow-blow-fuse-limited-availability/#produc...

Frank, I had a look at the prior thread but I couldn’t see if the company will be offering a range of fuses or only a single “color”. Also will they be offering both fast and slo blow?

Thanks

I assume you are comparing both fuses during your listening session with your friend?

The improvements with QSA Yellow fuses is obvious and significant.
If I were to quantify the cost to the effects, they are a bargain.

cerberus79
A few months ago I purchased a used pair of speakers from another Agon member.
To my surprise all the fuses were Orange fuses. I listened to them and then to satisfy my curiosity I replaced them with ordinary buss fuses and could not hear a difference.
I did this test with a bunch of friends and neither I or them could hear a difference. Kind of just says it all doesn’t it?

To those non technical thinking of purchasing these $$$ fuses. Just save your $150+ and do this instead.

A fuse:
1: two end caps
2: short piece of fuse wire connecting the two end caps through a glass tube (that’s all she wrote).

To those "non technical" members that are interested in "maybe" wasting their money, do not listen to the non-technical, listen to the technicians of this industry that design the audio products you have and listen to. AND YOU WON"T SEE THEM ON THREADS LIKE THIS AGREEING WITH WHAT SAID HERE ABOUT THE SOUND IMPROVMENT DETAILS AND AC FUSE PLACEMENT DIRECTION, EVER!!!
Just clean and tighten your fuse holder and re-new your fuse (if old) with a good quality 50cent Bussman, Littlefuse or similar.As with "many switch-on surges" they do deteriorate, bend, stretch and get crusty with electrolysis formations on their fusible wire elements before they give out, as these pics show of a fuse wire element ageing over time show. https://ibb.co/9NbTwqK (even the $$$ boutique ones will age just as much also)

Cheers George

Your kidding!! one thread gets shut down, so what does he do, starts another one.

*waiting*

Thanks Frank, have a great listening session! Looking forward to your collective thoughts on QSA Yellow and prototype fuses. 

I have a friend who is very familiar with my system coming over for a listen today. He has the QSA Yellow fuses in his system. He'll be hearing the results of the new prototype fuses for the first time. He’s in for a real ear and eye-opener.

Frank