Preamp Opinion

I tend to prefer a sound that is not too bright but provides a good clear soundstage and imaging.

The Bryston BP6 will give you this in spades — I owned one for several years.  I’d avoid the Adcom as it’s been known to have reliability issues so buy at your own risk.  Best of luck. 

Add some tubes, your system needs a push in that direction. Try the  Rogue RP-1. Other choice might be a used Conrad Johnson. 

I have always owned solid state before and am a little leery of tube maintenance.

Its no big deal. Not much to it- the tubes can last in a preamp to well past 10,000 hours (depending on the preamp and the circuit) and they are even mounted in sockets so you can replace them yourself :)

The only real bugaboo I've run into after 46 years in the business as a manufacturer is that sometimes people don't recognize that high performance tube equipment often needs hand-picked tubes, and tube sellers often don't do that. There are a few that do though! But if you paid a lot for a boutique tube and its noisy or microphonic, you can be disappointed. That is why you audition the tubes right away, to make sure they are suitable. Any reputable tube seller will offer the tubes with a 90 day warranty.

I like Rogue's sound a lot.  The RP1 is a nice preamp.  You will not need new tubes for a LONG time if you replace them once and that is not an expensive unit to get tubes for. Don't be afraid of tubes.  

So, are you recommending the Rogue over the Bryston? 

As I said on your other preamp thread.

 Halo A23 and the A21 they only need 1v in!! for them to give their max wattage output. And most sources today give more than 2v output some even 4v and 6v!!!
So you need a preamp with next to NO gain, or go direct from the source if it has a volume control.

For preamps that have low gain look at the Schiit FreyaS with remote control!! and balanced, at $599 it gives you the choice of being used as passive, active tube or active solid state.
https://www.schiit.com/products

And you can send it back after a good listen if you don't get off on it.

Cheers George

+1 for Bryston. Granted I have an 11B but the company's attention to detail on build quality is exceptional across the board. Depth of clarity is amazing.

I would tend to agree that the Rogue is best most natural sounding and detailed, without being bright preamp on your list. I would think it would match your current system well. If on the other hand your aspirations over the longer term you might think of buying used and getting an older model Audio Research or Conrad Johnson. They excel at communicating the emotional content as well as imaging and detail. Also, you will find many professional reviews available of these components,

+1 for Rogue Audio RP-1
I have one and love it a lot.  Had some pricey pre’s in my former days and this RP-1 is immensely enjoyable to listen through.  Dead silent, neutral, very nice sound stage width and depth, layers of detail and never bright or fatiguing.  Tubes will last a long time and pretty cheap to upgrade or roll to your liking.

Would you consider building a tube preamp? Tubes4hifi has the kit version that the Don Sachs model 2 is based on. This is an amazing preamp. 

I'm pretty sure it will walk away from all the preamps you have listed.

Disclaimer: I have not built anything but I can solder. I will be building their excellent phono preamp in the near future.

The advantage of building your own preamp is that you will be more than capable of fixing it or upgrading it down the road.

PS Audio PCA-2 with HCPS outboard power supply, very fast detailed and warmth of tubes under $1000 if you can find one. Close to reference on a budget.

I'd consider a Rogue 99 Magnum (or Super Magnum) in the Rogue slot over the RP-1. 

I tried to build the Tubes4hifi SP14 preamp from their board and a few select parts but it is unacceptably noisy with a 400 watt solid state power amp with a 120Hz hum from an impossible to diagnose ground loop presumably.  I've built five First Watt amps so I'm not an inexperienced builder but the SP14 has me flummoxed.  There are quite a few posts by people who have run into the same problem with the SP14 or essentially identical designs from Glassware etc..  Because of the hum it is hard to tell whether or not it would be a good preamp if it was quiet.

Trust me! If I built it, you would not want to listen to it😂

There is a Rogue 99 on eBay now. Looks good! Good price! But Nick at Rogue recommends the RP-1 over the 99. He said the tubes are improved. I know I could switch the tubes in the 99. But that is probably part of the reason I have always gone solid state. Pretty much zero maintenance. Plug and enjoy. That’s why I’m looking so hard at the Bryston.

For me tubes sound better. Also, as others have said, there is really very little maintenance for a tube pre, the tubues should last you 10k+ hours. Also, if you wanna try a different sound, you don't need to drop $$$ on a new preamp. You can replace the tubes and try and achieve a different sound that way. The 99 from rogue was a great preamp. It was their original step up from the 66. Based on your system, it does not seem like you're an analog guy but the RP-1 gives you some flexibility in that regard as it has a more than serviceable phono stage in it.

No, I bought the lie years ago that vinyl was dead and gave all my old 1960’s and 1970’s albums away😢 Now I don’t feel like spending the money to buy them again.

+1 @atmasphere 
for decades i was leary of tubes, finally gave it a try in preamp and phono preamp.....FANTASTIC!!  also rolled a few tubes, WONDERFUL!!

I got an RP-1 and like it. I put in a set a matched Mullards after one of the stock ones crapped out at about 24 months. Mullards still working good after several years.
Never owned a Bryston Pre but I do have their BPD π. I like their gear even though the BOT-1 was horrendously over priced for what you actually got. Bryston have good support and a very active a loyal community over on Audiocircle.com . BUT. Isnt the BP pretty old?

The one at which I am looking was manufactured in 2017. I am sure that either the Rogue RP-1 or the Bryston BP-1 will give me an improved sound over my current Parasound, just hard to know which one to grab. I wish it was like the old days when I could audition each of them with my equipment. 
Thanks for your help!

Its not cheap and not expensive. It's new though, 5 year warranty, 30 day trial period, SS design from Benchmark Audio in NY  All Balanced Benchmark LA-4 line preamp. Stats are incredible and so will your sound be. Take a look, you wont be disappointed.. Robert TN  they also have a pre amp that has a GREAT headphone amp inside, don't remember the model though and it's more money though.

Are any of you familiar with Vincent preamps? How do they compare to Rogue?

@bcool57


”Trust me! If I built it, you would not want to listen to it😂”


That would be me also. I am a big picture kind of guy. I don’t touch turntables or take things apart, they would never sound good again.

But tube preamps… incredibly reliable. I have a big box of backup tubes I never needed for tubed components. Actually all my stuff is now tubed… and never sounded so good. A tubed preamp is a great way to start. Tubed DACs and phono stages also.

"But Nick at Rogue recommends the RP-1 over the 99. He said the tubes are improved. "

Heh, definitely a difference in opinion. I love Rogue Audio, and have owned several of their components (including 5 preamps: a 99 Magnum, Hera, Hera II, Athena, RP-9), but I've never been a fan of the 12AU7 tube (as used in the RP-1/5/7). Most tube aficionados will tell you the same - and that the 6SN7 tube (as used in the 99) is far superior for similar roles. One knock against the 99 Magnum is that (due to the configuration of its 4x 6SN7) it has a ton of ton of gain (23dB), and the lead pair of 6SN7 slots (the 2 on the right-hand side) are VERY sensitive to noise & microphony. But personally I'd still take those concerns over a 12AU7 / MOSFET hybrid preamp, especially at their entry level unit. 

I always replaced the 12AU7 in their power amps with 12BH7 (beware the extra heater current draw before you do this), and got a significant improvement in sound.

+1 Bryston for reliable and great sounding equipment. I like Bryston for the minimalist approach—usually just the basic but necessary controls. Which for the BP6 is no display or meters, one LED indicator, solid state functionality. It also has a headphone section and may still have a balance on the 20 year warranty. I’ve owned their products for over 20 years without issue.

Yeah. Almost 10 years left on the warranty.

I assume you’ve seen this BP6...

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisacbia-bryston-bp6-stereo-preamplifier-bp-6-black-19-32990-solid-state

Not sure, but this seller might accept returns if it doesn’t work for you but not sure about that.  Just FYI. 

Yes. I do. Thanks!

Try out the Parasound P6. Dead quiet, and flexible. 

Schiit Freya +...incomparable features, 4 tubes that can be bypassed if you feel the need (solving the "should I get tubes?" question), plenty of balanced and single ended ins and outs, amazingly quiet operation...great sound, relatively inexpensive (less than anything noted here in other comments at around 900 bucks). I have the first version and have no desire to replace it. Killer preamp. Try it, send it back if you don't like it. Done.

Of the preamps you mentioned in order
Copland 301, Bryston, and the Rogue.
The Copland while the oldest design is still an outstanding preamp which lends itself well to updating. 
Bryston's are certainly not bright, but can be a little dry sounding, but work well with a lot of amps. The Rogue is very nice, but can be noisy  and has a lot of gain.
Ignore the bull about the 12auh7 tube. It's the implementation  that counts. 
I would also be pleased to quote you on a build to give you what you want.

What about the  PrimaLuna Prologue Three? I'm still leaning toward the Bryston simply because of zero maintenance and a few people on here who have had them swear by them. When I was reading the review for the PrimaLuna, people kept remarking how it gives you what it best about solid state. So, I ask myself, then why not go with a good quality solid state?

wolf_garcia

Schiit Freya +...incomparable features, 4 tubes that can be bypassed if you feel the need (solving the "should I get tubes?" question), plenty of balanced and single ended ins and outs, amazingly quiet operation...great sound, relatively inexpensive (less than anything noted here in other comments at around 900 bucks). I have the first version and have no desire to replace it. Killer preamp. Try it, send it back if you don’t like it. Done.

Ya can lead a horse to water Wolf, but ya can’t make them drink.
Tried to tell them the same thing. Especially because it’s low gain and the amp only needs 1v in for full output. And the sources have way more than 1v output.

Cheers George

I recommend you go with a tube preamp. Look for something based around the 6SN7 tube, with point to point wiring. Ideally it will have tube rectification. Even better if it has tube regulation. To ensure max value, I’d probably look for something used, although my current preamp is the first piece of equipment in many years I purchased new and willingly paid full retail for. I’ve never suffered from buyers remorse on this purchase or any of the current items in my system. 

Take your time. Read on this forum. Certain builders/companies/pieces of equipment (especially those which are relatively small operations or "boutique" builders)  consistently come up. For instance, Don Sachs, Atmasphere, Supratek, Aric Audio, First Sound, DeHavilland. Rogue & Primaluna are pretty well thought of. Before I started hanging around here I'd never heard of some of these guys. 

I don't really know what your for-real, no-kidding budget is. I found that, the more I read the more i eventually increased my budget.

Here's why that might be a good idea. If you buy right once, you don't have to upgrade. I started reading comments from some folks that once they bought a certain piece of equipment they were "done" upgrading that part of their system. Personally, I hate churning equipment, losing money on buying/selling, auditioning and fretting over my system. I just want to listen to the music. I know there are some folks who really enjoy the swapping in/out process. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just not me.

Do you need a phono stage? Or just a line stage? There are many fine builders/companies out there.

Why do I recommend this? For sheer beauty of sound. Tone. A well designed and well built tube preamp will give you this in spades. It will help illuminate the artistic choices the ensemble (regardless of genre) is making. For instance, you can hear when a vocalist is smiling when they are singing. Sometimes it seems I can hear when the bassist is looking at the drummer and nodding and they are in sync.

Music should be relaxing and beautiful. My tube preamp does this for me. My buddy, who used to be way into tubes, now is using a Luxman integrated that also sounds very, very fine. I think it’s a 590 or something like that. It also has a beautiful, rich tone.

Wolf Garcia I agree the Freya is a heck of a good preamp, The JJ tubes that came with the preamp are good. For onother $250 I upgrades to Pavane 6sn7 uk version on the gain ,and pavane tennis ball 6sn7 on the tube buffer..The result  Freya compete with my audio research preamp and Krell.

+2 On the Schiit Freya + preamp.

@jayctoy @ditusa @wolfe_garcia @georgehifi and others who have commented so positively on the Schitt gear. Good to hear such high praise of the Freya. Quick question - is it your "forever" preamp? Or are you of a mind to eventually replace it with something else?

@ markusthenaimnut

Yes, I have noticed in my short time on here that there are certainly strong opinions toward certain brands and some of them are less familiar (at least to me). I am hoping to keep the purchase somewhere around $1,500 and I am not opposed to buying used as long as it is from a reputable source. In fact, the Bryston and the Rogue were from a used dealer, although the Rogue has since been sold, which happens when you keep looking.

I really don't care if the preamp has a phono stage. I bought into the lie many years ago that vinyl was dead and got rid of most of my albums. At this stage of my life, I do not plan to spend the money to replace them.

I prefer something that is not too bright but does have a nice soundstage and imaging. Many people have said the Rogue is good at that. Others have indicated the Bryston which is solid state is also excellent at that. After a while, it gets kind of confusing.

Markusthenaimnut , is it my forever preamp on my second system yes.Originally my plan is to buy Backert preamp, possible would be my forever preamp but it has no balance.Its also pricey.The Freya plus is always being compared to more expensive preamp, so it got my attention and ordered one? I will return it anyway if it’s not good, with JJ tubes 6sn7 it’s a keeper, with my pavane tubes upgrade I forgot the Backert.

Best Used Conrad Johnson you can afford. 

@jayctoy @ditusa @wolfe_garcia @georgehifi and others who have commented so positively on the Schitt gear. Good to hear such high praise of the Freya. Quick question - is it your "forever" preamp? Or are you of a mind to eventually replace it with something else?

Not me, as I go direct, no preamp even better.
And if my source had no volume control, then the passive stage of the Freya, and the if I need to use >5mt of interconnect or with an amp that only had 10kohm or less input impedance, the solid state of the Freya then the tube
Cheers George

I had a Freya and thought it offered a ton of features for the price but I never liked the sound even after rolling tubes.  I also found it noisy.

I had a Decware CSP3 and while it was very simple I really liked the sound, but it was also a bit noisy.  It does have gain control of the input and of the output tubes and that allowed for dramatic changing of the character of the tube sound.  It is single ended and I like the silence of balanced output.  Its a great Pre to start with and many never move on.

I moved on to an Allnic L-4000 and really loved it until I had an opportunity to swap a DAC for an Allnic L-7000 and I pinch myself every day for how I cant believe how good it sounds.

I had a Freya and thought it offered a ton of features for the price but I never liked the sound even after rolling tubes. I also found it noisy.

I had a Decware CSP3 but it was also a bit noisy.

Freya is dead quite in any mode ("SNR: >120db, A-weighted, referenced to 2V RMS"), it’s the environment you had them both in

(@ wolf_garcia care to comment on noise of the Freya??)

Cheers George

I would go for a reasonable priced Parasound JC2 from the used marked. I've ran this on a A21, JC5 and JC1 with great luck. The synergy between parasound's own product line is what I would choose. Dead quiet pre with loads of details with matching source!! Deep bottom with abit rolled off tops. Never got any fattigue from this pre ever.... Only downside on this pre would be the trigger-happy volum control on remote, but you will get used to it and learn the tapping-touch in flash. Good luck

My vote...Schiit Freya+... I've had a ton of preamps over the years. But I read so many amazing reviews on the Freya that I decided to find one and buy it. I like buying used equipment and I found a Freya non-plus and bought it for $600. They say the Freya has more noise than the Freya Plus. These 70 year old ears can't hear any noise in the original Freya. All I can tell you is that the sound stage the definition the air is simply amazing on this preamp. And the ability to use tubes are not on certain recordings is a great feature. For $1,000 I don't think it can be beat.

Hello,
I think you should check out a used PS Audio BHK preamp. They go for $3500 used but well worth it. They are super quiet and very reliable. You can roll the tubes but I don’t think you will need to. I hope this helped. 

@ jkf011

I know that Conrad Johnson makes good equipment. I looked at some of it back in the day. Unfortunately, most of it is outside of my price range. What about the Conrad-Johnson PV-10AL or  CONRAD JOHNSON CT-6? Have you heard either of them? Which gives the best sound?

@jayctoy @ditusa @wolfe_garcia @georgehifi and others who have commented so positively on the Schitt gear. Good to hear such high praise of the Freya. Quick question - is it your "forever" preamp? Or are you of a mind to eventually replace it with something else?

The Schiit Freya+ stereo preamplifier is without doubt an excellent performer, Its three preamps in one. I use it with my solid state amps and tube amp and it sounds great with stock tubes. My speaker's efficiency is 2.7 % In my system the Freya+ is noise free. I use NOS 6sn7GT Ken-Rad (Pre-Ge) staggered plates with black carbonized glass. For me it’s a keeper. You will not find a better tube preamp that is balanced and remote controlled with a 5-Year Warranty and Easy Return Policy, and you can purchase brand new for $950.00! BTW, The Ken-Rad tubes are dated 1944 cost $300.00  factor that in the total price. Hope that helps. Mike