Power Cords Snake Oil ??

atmasphere
IOW the power cord doesn't 'rectify hundreds of feet of imperfection' because it doesn't have to. It is important for a power cord to be competent though. FWIW, that has little to do with price. The effects of a power cord are often measurable. I've seen them rob an amplifier of about 30% of its output power due to voltage drop across the cord!

What was the cord made of, paper mache? Why would one cord have a 30% drop but another 2%?

Oh, great, let’s go back to the Stone Age and use aluminum wire for everything. What is this, the Flintstones? Aluminum for transformers, internal wiring, tone arm wire, inductors, interconnects, cartridge wiring. Aluminum for electronics chasses. What’s next, oxygen free high purity aluminum? Six nines long crystal aluminum? Oh, my! 😬 Quick, somebody alert NASA, tell them to ditch those horrible gold fuses in satellites and spacecraft and switch to six nines aluminum ASAP. 🚀

Power cables capable of conducting sufficient electrical energy (current and voltage) to your equipment make absolutely zero difference to the sound when all other variables are kept the same. The $1000 power cable will not fix any issues inherent in your electrical feed nor will it be capable of conducting more electricity than your amplifier (or other component) needs or was designed to work with. The "audiophile" power cable is a straight fraud and ANY claims to the contrary are based on the placebo effect or someone is trying to fool you or someone else. 

Put another way, it is physically impossible for a power cable that is adequately constructed and tested to to work to make any sonic differences in your high fidelity system. And if you think - or actually do - hear an "improvement" then something is very wrong with your setup or with your brain/ears. 

Thank you for the information. But if I can hear the difference between cheap power cords and very expensive ones does that mean I have Asperger’s?

No. Not necessarily. It means you’re experiencing the placebo effect. Aspergers (or any other ailment/condition) are still possible, but there is no causative or correlative relationship between that and the fact that you are hearing what you want to hear - and - that you wouldn’t hear or be able to point out more than 50% of the time in a true double blind A/B comparison test.

I should clarify my first post, however, to say that "very wrong" is only in cases where the placebo effect has been ruled out. 

Here is another way to look at it. Say you have a high end 100WPC Class A/B amp. It should have shipped with a cable that its manufacturer deems acceptable to enable top performance in all possible configurations for which the amp was designed.

Say this amp maker also manufactures $1000 power cables and $5000 power conditioners.  

Wouldn't that raise a couple of questions? 

1) Would they in good conscience sell me the $1000 power cable knowing that I bought the amp from them and that it came with the power cord they provided? IF so, what would the intended benefit be - electrically speaking? Have they measured for differences on the DC-side of the amp's PS and if so, why don't they  publish them? We all know that a high quality power cable can't clean up dirty power....

2) Then what about their $5000 conditioners? Let's say that I have a situation where my power is so dirty/noisy/out of phase that I need one of these conditioners. So now I have their amp and their conditioner, meaning I have a cord they provided and clean, phase aligned AC power on the AC side of the amp's power supply. Have they measured different DC voltages/currents on the DC side of that amp's PS during use? Why not publish or provide these results in an easy to see graph or description? 

3) If the company's goal is to ensure that I'm "as close to the music as possible" and they believe that their amplifier needs a conditioner and extra heavy duty expensive power cord, why don't they just sell the whole setup the way they think it sounds best, or why don't they just design their amp's power supply to condition or filter the AC power so that the DC power is "better"? 

The whole thing is nonsensical. This is a ploy to extract as much money from you as they can without providing any scientific proof that their system is 1) superior to a standard power cord and isolation transformer/filter or 2) that the added cost and components have measurable differences in audio quality? How many of them would be willing to set up a double blind A/B test or tests (plural) where different power conditions are present? 

ostensible_constituency
No. Not necessarily. It means you’re experiencing the placebo effect. Aspergers (or any other ailment/condition) are still possible, but there is no causative or correlative relationship between that and the fact that you are hearing what you want to hear - and - that you wouldn’t hear or be able to point out more than 50% of the time in a true double blind A/B comparison test.

I should clarify my first post, however, to say that "very wrong" is only in cases where the placebo effect has been ruled out.

>>>>It doesn’t make sense that placebo effect can be used as the reason why power cords sound different. Same with the claim that blind tests would prove there are no differences. If either of those claims were true then anyone could automatically win any audio argument by claiming placebo effect or threatening the dreaded blind test. I hereby declare both of those arguments logical fallacies. 

That makes zero sense whatsoever. Power cords DO NOT sound different in a controlled blind A/B comparison test. PERIOD. You don’t seem to understand what the placebo effect really is.

BTW, power cables are not the same thing as interconnects or speaker cables. Those are actually in the signal path.

You are fooling yourself if you think a power cord improves the sound of your audio system and in a controlled experiment I would wager everything that I own and my kid’s college savings that you could not distinguish the difference between two power cables of equivalent length, same AWG (even "effective AWG") with ALL other variables in the given system controlled - more than 50% of the time. IOW, it would be no better than random guessing.

Something like this test, but with power cords: http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm

It would be much simpler just switching out power cables.

Oh my...what do you know? Here's a power cable comparison test and guess what.....nobody could do it more than 50% of the time, LOL:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

What is an "audio argument"? How does one "win" such an argument?

The fact is that even companies like Shunyata struggle to demonstrate discernible measurable differences between their expensive power cables and others using sensitive test equipment. Even then, that’s on the AC side of the power supply. So for an amp, as an example, which has a built-in power supply consisting of a transformer, rectifier and filter (which also serves as an energy reserve), nothing you can do to a power cord on the AC side of the equation other than damaging it will affect the DC rail voltage in a meaningful or audible way or the availability of reserve current available to the amplifier circuitry. Even Shunyata and the so-called ’scientific’ cable manufacturers cannot show that their cables measure significantly (or at all in most cases) "better" than a standard UL listed 14 AWG shielded power cable.

That’s why people like you and the companies that sell these cables always fall back on the "but it sounds different" audio argument. As though audio is somehow excluded from the realm of the scientific method or subject to physical phenomena that are not understood or able to be isolated.

I’m going to make this short and sweet. NOBODY can hear the difference between two power cables that are capable of carrying the current required to meet the specifications of an amplifier in an otherwise totally controlled experimental audio setup more than 50% of the time.

At the end of the day, it is indeed the placebo effect and if you have purchased a fancy power cable and THINK it sounds better, that's your business. But there is no objective science or proof nor can what you hear be repeated in a reproducible manner for other people, without also tainting that situation via the placebo effect. 

ostensible_constituency

... Power cords DO NOT sound different in a controlled blind A/B comparison test. PERIOD.

ALL CAPS is shouting and not necessary.
Please tell us about the controlled tests you've performed that leads to this conclusion. Who conducted the test, and who participated? How did you switch between the power cords? What cords did you evaluate?

Or, do you state this based purely on intuition?

Do I detect shouting and repeating in speech? You know what that’s a sure sign of?

🍑 🍔 🍔.

Making me hungry.

Not another pop quiz, again.

Selective ALL CAPS in a sentence is "emphasis" in the absense of text editing functionality. I suppose I could have said *do not* instead, but there are other platforms that interpret asterisks differently.

Back on the subject, I’m glad you asked:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

Oh, and did I forget to mention that I also base it on my years of listening to audio equipment, the fact that I have an EE degree and that I've designed both switching and non-switching power supplies - including the type that would be used in audio components? 

@elizabeth:

That’s also known as the placebo effect. Enjoy it. It’s a free market society and you can spend your money on whatever you want. When you acquire the fortune necessary to do so, you might also reach out to your electrical utility and have them rewire the transmission lines, transformers and junction boxes in the path to your audio equipment so that your sound will improve even more! In the mean time you can also replace your breakers and every fuse in the circuit shared by your audio equipment. That might really push your system over the edge - you' likely be able to hear the photons strike the cymbals in the recording studio or the number of cigarettes Mick Jagger smoked the night before he recorded "No Satisfaction." 

Or you could get a $5000 power conditioner. But you still wouldn’t be hearing any actual difference between your Pangea and a UL listed Tripplite heavy duty shielded power cable with at least 14AWG on any properly designed amplifier or other audio equipment you might own.

To all the people who are offended and/or hurt by scientific rebuttals, please continue to enjoy your mains cable "tweaks" and don’t bother to do any reading about electrical or electrical engineering concepts. Trust your ears. LOL.

I'll keep repeating, if you don't think power cords make an audible difference when you insert them in your system, don't purchase them. If you think they do make a difference when you insert them in your system, purchase them. Pretty simple. Who am I or any of us to tell someone what they do or don't hear. Moreover,  who are we to tell someone what to spend their money on.

ostensible_constituency

Back on the subject, I’m glad you asked:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

So your claim about not being able to distinguish between power cables power cables in a blind test is based on someone else's 14-year-old test?

Oh, and did I forget to mention that I also base it on my years of listening to audio equipment, the fact that I have an EE degree and that I've designed both switching and non-switching power supplies - including the type that would be used in audio components?

No, you didn't mention that, which is the logical fallacy of a call to authority. Please tell us: Have you ever conducted an actual blind test to substantiate your belief? Have you ever participated in such a test?

And I’ll keep repeating as well - go back and read what the OP asked. All of my explanations are directly and indirectly in response to that.

Someone asked if expensive power cords were "snake oil" and the answer is - "It depends. If you have a properly constructed, shielded AWG 14 or better power cable made of copper or another conductor of sufficient purity, there is no need to spend more than $20 on a power mains cable for use with any audio equipment designed for use in a home or home theater - not to mention a concert hall or recording studio because any perceived differences in sound quality at that point are due to the placebo effect."  PERIOD

So your claim about not being able to distinguish between power cables power cables in a blind test is based on someone else’s 14-year-old test?

No. And in case you’re having trouble reading for comprehension or keeping up with the thread, that’s simply an example of someone conducting the type of test that I had suggested to the previous poster if he/she was really interested in proving that one power cord could "sound better" than another.  Besides, do you have any test, of any age, that contradicts that one? Let's see it. 

No, you didn’t mention that, which is the logical fallacy of a call to authority. Please tell us: Have you ever conducted an actual blind test to substantiate your belief? Have you ever participated in such a test?

That’s because I wasn’t talking to you and nobody else asked, but when one happens to have more expertise in a given field than another person does (unless of course he wishes to clarify about his own credentials in EE or a related field), that’s not "appeal to authority" and you clearly also don’t understand the definition of that logical fallacy.

Appeal to authority would be along the lines of: "_________ says there is an audible improvement between cheap and expensive power cables and ______ manufactures expensive power cables, therefore he is correct." Which is not what I did. I said that I’ve designed power supplies and that in so doing, and in working with numerous EEs and EE students over the years, nobody has ever demonstrated that one power cable of the proper rating/listing will "perform" differently when measuring the DC side of a power supply than any other power cable.

Have I participated in blind A/B comparison studies? No, I’ve done some switching back and forth with already-burned-in (another bogus concept, but I did it to show that I was serious) power mains cables and I’ve read what actual engineers and engineering textbooks have to say about it.

At the end of the day, and bottom line - if there are no electrically measurable differences on the DC-side of the power supply from changing power mains cables, then there are no objectively discernible audible differences coming out of the speakers, all other things being controlled/equal. Can YOU or ANYONE ELSE hear a difference? Possibly, but that’s the placebo effect.

Rather than continue down this path where people are incorrectly accusing me of using logical fallacies that they clearly don’t understand, why doesn’t someone point me to some test results that are at least somewhat scientific that DO show a measurable or audible difference between a standard, well shielded, UL listed heavy duty power cable and an expensive "audiophile" power cable? I’ve already produced a test and explained why, from an engineering perspective, there is no difference so long as the current gets to the power supply and nothing is impeding it. But so far I’ve seen nothing to prove or even strongly suggest that there is a scientific basis for any of the claims from people or manufacturers that insist a $500 power mains cable sounds better than a $15 Tripplite from Home Depot or Frye’s.

Repeating the same dogma over and over, even in the same paragraph, and obsessively blaming placebo for why other people hear power cords, is a sure sign of....you guessed it!

🍑🍔🍔

The placebo effect argument works both ways. If you're of the mind that power cables won't make a difference, you'll not hear a difference. That, and you'll point to lots of other people who fell the same way and "documented" it. 

All the best,
Nonoise

Repeating the same dogma over and over, even in the same paragraph, is a sure sign of....you guessed it!

In your case it’s a clear sign of projection, which is a psychological coping mechanism, not a valid form of argument. The only thing that qualifies as "dogma" around here is the notion/statement that "my power cable sounds better than yours because I say so!" which gets repeated over and over and over.....not to mention "I don't believe in science!"  LOL

Uh, you just repeated yourself again. Yup, 🍑🍔🍔

Besides, I never said I didn’t have it. That’s probably how I can spot it in others. 😛

The placebo effect argument works both ways. If you're of the mind that power cables won't make a difference, you'll not hear a difference. That, and you'll point to lots of other people who fell the same way and "documented" it.

In theory, sure. That's why I produced a double blind (or close to it anyway) ABX test to demonstrate my point. Do you understand how a double blind test eliminates the placebo effect? If not, there are resources online where you can learn all about basic testing methodologies. It's a staple in the Rx industry. Some people have called into question the utility of ABX testing in audio, but that's an entirely different argument that you haven't even started to address. 

The only "documentation" I pointed out was a scientifically conducted test (no test is absolutely perfect) that demonstrated people, even audiophiles, could not hear the difference between power cords with enough frequency to demonstrate they were doing anything other than guessing randomly. 

Tell me this: If the power mains cable manufacturers are so convinced, whey don't they use their considerable resources to demonstrate once and for all, via controlled double-blind ABX testing that their cables sound "better"? LOL 

The burden of proof is on them - as they're selling a product they claim has certain benefits - and not on me, who is simply giving my informed opinion to the OP of this thread who asked some questions about expensive power mains cables. 

Uh, you just repeated yourself again. Yup, 🍑🍔🍔

Hey Geoff....you wouldn't happen to sell audio tweaks, would you? I think that if so, it should disqualify you here as it's an obvious conflict of interest when a user asks a forum for objective advice. 

I hate to be the one to point out that just because blind tests work in pharma doesn’t mean they work in audio. I got through describing why blind tests are unreliable for audio just last week. You should have been here. But I’ll help you out. The reason why negative results for blind tests don’t mean anything for audio is because too many things can go wrong with the test. Pharma doesn’t have nearly the complexity, i.e., number of variables, that audio does. You’re welcome in advance.

I got through describing why blind tests are unreliable for audio just last week. You should have been here. But I’ll help you out. The reason why negative results for blind tests don’t mean anything for audio is because too many things can go wrong with the test. Pharma doesn’t have nearly the complexity, i.e., number of variables, that audio does. You’re welcome in advance.

LMAO - So then we’ve completely eliminated electrical test and measurement and now double blind testing. I guess all we have to go on are our ears and the marketing folks at Audioquest and Shunyata. Case closed!

Oh, but how could I forget the resident "expert" Geoff....a guy who also conspicuously neglected to answer my question to him, so I’ll ask it again:

Dear Geoff, do you now or have you ever "designed", manufactured or sold audiophile "tweaks" for money?

P.S. they're not "negative" results as anyone with any understanding of statistical methods would have understood. The results of the test demonstrated that even an "audiophile" has less than a 50% chance of correctly identifying the difference between two or more power cables, positive OR negative. Duh!

OH look! I've found the answer to my question! 

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=2228

So Geoff has a history of making false or un-provable claims AND of claiming to be an audio professional. 

That would get a person banned in most forums due to conflict of interest. 

Plus, he seems a bit cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs: https://www.stereophile.com/content/geoff-kaits-forum

Debate rule no. 1 - When you find yourself losing the argument and you’ve run out of ammo attack the other guy with idiotic stuff you found on the internet. 🍑🍔🍔

ostensible_constituency

That’s because I wasn’t talking to you and nobody else asked, but ...

Actually, you were talking to me. It’s how forums work. When you post here, anybody can read what you wrote. If you want to exclude participants, use a P.M. or an email. I’m surprised you don’t understand that.

Have I participated in blind A/B comparison studies? No ...

Amazing! Yet this lack of first-hand experience doesn’t stop you from claiming that you know the outcome of every double-blind power cord listening test that has ever been conducted, or ever will be conducted!

ostensible_constituency

... The only thing that qualifies as "dogma" around here is the notion/statement that "my power cable sounds better than yours because I say so!" which gets repeated over and over and over ...

I’ve been reading these forums for years and I don’t recall anyone ever saying that. Ever. Yet, you claim it "gets repeated over and over and over." Please provide a few examples to substantiate your claim. Given the frequency of repetition that you profess, it should be easy for you to comply. Feel free to use Google, if that helps.

.....not to mention "I don’t believe in science!"

Amazing! Again, I don’t recall anyone ever saying that here. Ever. Yet, you claim it "gets repeated over and over and over." Please provide a few examples to substantiate your claim.

ostensible_constituency"I would wager everything that I own and my kid’s college savings that you could not distinguish the difference between two power cables of equivalent length, same AWG (even "effective AWG") with ALL other variables in the given system controlled - more than 50% of the time."

How much money in $USD are you talking about in this offer of yours if it is of sufficent amount to make it work my time I will consider it please post the specific amount. I must note as a matter of personal transparency that previous such offers have been revealed to be fraudulent efforts to obtain personal information.

It’s entirely possible to double blind test something that’s 100% provable to anyone and come out with a 50% chance of certainty.

The test itself introduces many levels of uncertainty even before it starts. That’s why I’ve always referred to it as a cheap parlor trick. Comparing it to medicinal tests is a red herring, since all the subjects have the ailment in a medical study and not all the subjects in a listening test will have the same hearing acuity. It’s a different kettle of fish.

As to the mind and how it perceives betterment from a medication is not analogous to how someone can hear an improvement. The sick person will remain sick though one can hope enough to skew a momentary improvement, only to succumb to the ailment and get worse. The person who hears better will always hear better but can be tricked, in the short term and upon an extended listening period with their own, familiar system, can tell the difference. I’d even go so far as to say that one who is intimately familiar with their own system can tell if something is off within a shorter period of time. They may not be able to put their finger on it but they’ll know. I say this from my own experience.

In fact, there are those on these forums who’ve done better than average on double blind tests already and for some reason, are overlooked.

The fault that lies in unsighted testing is the simple fact that you’re removing an essential, sensory aspect to what completes an observation. Run your finger over a map and speak the name of the area you’re trying to remember and you’ll drastically increase the ability to remember it, and recognize it, later on. It’s how we’re designed; it’s in our DNA. Eliminate or curtail that process that we’re accustomed to using and you interject a form of chaos into our ability to discern. It’s no wonder how one can take a certainty and reduce it to simple chance by tying one’s arm (or a sense) behind one’s back and then say, ’lets see how well you do it now."

All the best,
Nonoise

You're wrapped way too tight for folks around here. You're not the first to go around, banging your drum about double blind testing and proffering wagers, which the mods frown upon. You'll find out soon enough.

ostensible_constituency

Geoffkait: Uh, you just repeated yourself again. Yup, 🍑🍔🍔


Hey Geoff....you wouldn't happen to sell audio tweaks, would you? I think that if so, it should disqualify you here as it's an obvious conflict of interest when a user asks a forum for objective advice.

>>>>>Experience trumps Asperger’s 🍑🍔🍔

ostensible_constituency

You have serious issues with reading for comprehension, so I'll repeat this one last time for your benefit. I never said I KNOW anything FOR CERTAIN.

Yes you did:

"I would wager everything that I own and my kid’s college savings that you could not distinguish the difference between two power cables of equivalent length, same AWG (even "effective AWG") with ALL other variables in the given system controlled - more than 50% of the time."

You've also stated:

... The only thing that qualifies as "dogma" around here is the notion/statement that "my power cable sounds better than yours because I say so!" which gets repeated over and over and over ...

and:

.....not to mention "I don’t believe in science!"

Do you have any proof of those claims? Ive asked you because I've never seen such statements here previously, yet you claim they are common.

If you're still having trouble with that VERY basic concept, perhaps an education of some kind is in order, even at the local community college?

That looks like a case of projection to me.

ostensible_constituency"Give us all a break here and just admit right now that you’re totally making this up. In fact, you need to prove the following right now before I can take anything else you say seriously:"

You would appear to be so substantially confused, disoriented and misinformed to such an extreme extent that it is almost impossible to respond to your foot-stomping demanding little elementary school tirade except to plainly explain that neither I nor anyone else here have to prove anything to you at all the entire burden of facts, proof and substantiation rests with you becausde you are the one making the claims, accusations, and prononcements.

" If such a study was commenced, I would GLADLY bet all my money on the notion that the results would demonstrate, beyond doubt, that the power cable company’s claims are bogus."

How much money is that for someone like you who writes, thinks and challenges like that of a third or fourth grader it is probably your entire piggy bank is it more than $100 USD? Please explain to us the exact amount of resources that you are willing to commit to the challenge you put forth towards the participants here in this group.

"  concentrating only on power mains cables in an equivalent system, depending on the amount of $$ I was willing to put on it. How much $$ would it take for you to participate, whether it was myself or one of the cable companies putting it up?"

It is increasingly apparent that you are not serious, legitimate or honest so answering your question would yield no progress in this discussion which is tuning into a thread where you are talking to yourself like a fool on a street corner or more accurately in all likelihood like a child spurned and alone at recess.

nonoise  (to @ostensible_constituency)

You're not the first to go around, banging your drum about double blind testing and proffering wagers, which the mods frown upon. You'll find out soon enough.

Quite so. This is not the place for such nonsense. This a hobbyist's group. No one here owes anyone anything, including complying with demands for scientific evidence, participating in double-blind studies or being ridiculed or shamed for refusing to wager with an anonymous Internet user.

“You can’t kill kill.” - Charles Manson

cleeds"No one here owes anyone anything, including complying with demands for scientific evidence, participating in double-blind studies or being ridiculed or shamed for refusing to wager with an anonymous Internet user."

I will not be "shamed" and I am not afraid of a wager although I admit I remain dubious and skeptical about those who pursue such wagers because in the passed they're motives have been demonstrated and proven to be bogus, fraudulent, and deceptive and the only way to expose such a fraud is to be willing to accept the wager provided it is genuine, sincere and based in an actual scientific setting with a proper design, administrator, and controls yet so far no such offer has been presented here to the group. I admit is is easier for me because of my success in business a $25,000 USD wager does not represent a sizeable risk because  the loss would not be substantial to my net worth or costs of living so I can use this economic freedom to help reveal and expose those who are using this group for purposes for which the group is not intended and in fact in ways that may be violation of various US laws.

clearthink
I admit is is easier for me because of my success in business a $25,000 USD wager does not represent a sizeable risk because the loss would not be substantial to my net worth or costs of living so I can use this economic freedom to help reveal and expose those who are using this group for purposes for which the group is not intended and in fact in ways that may be violation of various US laws.

>>>>>Whoa! What?! Hey, looks like we got Son of The Amazing Randi on board! Although in Randi’s case he wasn’t using his own money. It was Johnny Carson’s. 😬

" How much money is that for someone like you who writes, thinks and challenges like that of a third or fourth grader it is probably your entire piggy bank is it more than $100 USD? Please explain to us the exact amount of resources that you are willing to commit to the challenge you put forth towards the participants here in this group."

And yet you still report my posts to the moderators for removal rather than let them stand on their own to demonstrate "third or fourth grade" writing. Riiiiiiight. That’s the clearest case of projection I’ve seen yet. The amount of money I’d be willing to put up, given the proper experimental setup (that is, one vetted by any expert on double blind testing) would be....let’s say....substantial, even to a fake Internet rich guy like yourself..... and this amount would be paid out to you and your "group" if the results favored your (vague, ambiguous, whiny) argument in this "debate".

But here’s where you try to change the subject again, right? Make a report to the mods? 

Besides, make up your mind - are you willing to engage in this conversation, which may or may not culminate in a personal bet that YOU (not I) keep talking about and bringing up, or are you scared to debate the actual topic, which is the science or lack therof behind "upgraded" or "high end" mains AC cables or not? Are you going to keep diverting and dissembling or are you going to be able to focus on the merits of the points raised and an honest reading of what other posters actually write, rather than the fever dreams in your addled mind?

Also can you finally just learn to read for comprehension and if you’re truly interested in proving the merits of these cables, let’s find a way to get the manufacturers or proponents of such to prove that their cables enhance the audio in a given system controlling for all other variables? This kind of question requires a YES or NO response.

For anyone casually stumbling onto this particular thread such as I did the other day, or the OP following up on his long-ago request for advice, it must be very interesting to note that "sides" or "camps" have been formed and that the members of one "camp" engage in one type of argument while the other side has chosen a different approach.

Those of us who claim that there is no scientific merit to manufacturer statements that - across the board - a "high end" or "higher quality beyond AWG and shielding" power AC cable will make an audible, discernible difference, nay, IMPROVEMENT in the sound of every high-end system of a certain caliber are attempting to focus on real-world physics, engineering, or solutions that even involve some form of teaming up with the other "side" to prove once and for all who’s right and who’s wrong. That kind of solution requires some kind of capital outlay by either a manufacturer or participants in a side-wager to the type of study that would be required to end this debate, but why not brainstorm about it here without getting personal or misrepresenting what the other "side" says?

On the Mfg. side, I offer up an example such as Shunyata’s (comments disabled) video whereby they purport to present a demonstration of their superior power cable by using a peak current meter on an AC outlet and then on their cable, followed by an inferior cable (in AWG (conductor thickness) as well as construction) which has nothing whatsoever to say about or do with the way an AC/DC power supply works in an average user’s home nor does it address the fact that MOST if not ALL home audio equipment will never need to draw the peak amperage that they demonstrate. That’s just one example. There are many others.

When links are posted to previous studies or comparos, those are denigrated as "14 years old" (as though power cable technology has changed? If so, please note how) or that the person making the post wasn’t a direct participant in the test, which is why the new test is being proposed in the first place. So, until then: https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html remains the standard.

Meanwhile, those who claim that an expensive AC mains cable will discernibly or even DRASTICALLY IMPROVE the sound of most hi-fi audio systems have abandoned any attempt to argue the merits or scientific side of their case, instead resorting to personal attacks, changing the subject, making accusations about the alleged behavior of the other side and muddying the entire discourse by focusing on only one aspect of a post and intentionally, repeatedly misinterpreting it.

And if you’re just interested in reading about the history of this type of debate without having to learn about the imaginary business fortunes of individual netizens who claim to be able to throw away $25,000 *because* they were/are a successful businessperson, here you go:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths.486598/

There are plenty more out there, and the vast, overwhelming consensus, is that you don’t need to spend a fortune on cables (and not much AT ALL on power cables or digital interconnects), nor will you hear any actual, non-placebo effect improvements if you do, but feel free to spend your money however you want.  And to be perfectly clear, on speaker cables and other interconnects in the signal path, spending more money DOES improve the sound - but only to a point well below $75/ft.

ostensible_constituency
Meanwhile, those who claim that an expensive AC mains cable will discernibly or even DRASTICALLY IMPROVE the sound of most hi-fi audio systems have abandoned any attempt to argue the merits or scientific side of their case, instead resorting to personal attacks, changing the subject, making accusations about the alleged behavior of the other side and muddying the entire discourse by focusing on only one aspect of a post and intentionally, repeatedly misinterpreting it.

>>>>>There it is! When the pseudo skeptic’s back is up against the wall he lashes out out with the usual attacks. It’s the other side that’s abandoned rational debate and science, resorting to personal attacks, changing the subject, making baseless accusations, muddying the entire discourse, and misinterpreting the pseudo skeptic’s argument. There is no acknowledgment of or rebuttal of the counter arguments. Just a lotta who shot John. There is no test anyone can devise that can prove cables or power cords all sound about the same.