Just try an AQ storm series cable - preferably a Tornado or Hurricane. If you don’t experience an improvement in SQ significantly more than changing something like your DAC or amplifier, then you probably have poor musical hearing. The upside for you is that you can save your money and get a good value system from Radio Shack or Best Buy. It’s all good.
Power Cords Snake Oil ??
Having been a long time audiophile living with countless high end compnents I have to wonder about the theory and practicality of high end power cords.
I have yet to hear the difference a power cord makes. Ive owned, synergistic, Shunyata, BMI and cardas. I in no way can detect any sonic signature or change. Give me a pair of interconnects and I imeadiately notice a difference somewhere in the sonic spectrum. Not the PC though. I have accomplished 4 blind tests with my friends. 3 out of the 4 they did not know their cord was replaced. All 4 were using a stock factory supplied cord. Each of the 4 tests were done on different components. Amp, CDP, Preamp & dac.
My electrical backround tells me that provided you supply the component with its required voltage bet 110vac or 220/240vac its happy. Now, change the incoming frequency from 60hz to say 53hz and watch how quickly your soundstage collapses.! This is often the case during the summer months when home air conditioners are in use and the utility company power output is taxed to the max. A really good power conditioner should however take care of the frequency fluctuations. But 110vac is still 110vac regardless of the conductor it passes through as long as its remains 110vac when it reaches the intended circuit. Does your 8k amp or preamp know the difference of the path the voltage took to reach it ? Many an audiophile will use a dedicated 20amp circut for their equipment.That is a good idea as voltage & frequency fluctuations will occur in the home circuit to to other loads on the main breaker panel but again, A power cord simply is the means of transporting the voltage from the wall to the component. IF there is a clean 110vac @ 60hz at the wall socket, no matter what the medium is to go from the socket to the component, it will still be 110vac @60hz.
Could somebody expand on this a bit more. I just dont understand it. ??
I have yet to hear the difference a power cord makes. Ive owned, synergistic, Shunyata, BMI and cardas. I in no way can detect any sonic signature or change. Give me a pair of interconnects and I imeadiately notice a difference somewhere in the sonic spectrum. Not the PC though. I have accomplished 4 blind tests with my friends. 3 out of the 4 they did not know their cord was replaced. All 4 were using a stock factory supplied cord. Each of the 4 tests were done on different components. Amp, CDP, Preamp & dac.
My electrical backround tells me that provided you supply the component with its required voltage bet 110vac or 220/240vac its happy. Now, change the incoming frequency from 60hz to say 53hz and watch how quickly your soundstage collapses.! This is often the case during the summer months when home air conditioners are in use and the utility company power output is taxed to the max. A really good power conditioner should however take care of the frequency fluctuations. But 110vac is still 110vac regardless of the conductor it passes through as long as its remains 110vac when it reaches the intended circuit. Does your 8k amp or preamp know the difference of the path the voltage took to reach it ? Many an audiophile will use a dedicated 20amp circut for their equipment.That is a good idea as voltage & frequency fluctuations will occur in the home circuit to to other loads on the main breaker panel but again, A power cord simply is the means of transporting the voltage from the wall to the component. IF there is a clean 110vac @ 60hz at the wall socket, no matter what the medium is to go from the socket to the component, it will still be 110vac @60hz.
Could somebody expand on this a bit more. I just dont understand it. ??
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shadowcat2016 I come to these sites for informed opinions and the benefit of others experiences that differ from mine.................sad and interesting how quickly an otherwise reasonable discussion can degrade into a locker room Pss’ing contest............Sometimes it’s not worth the time to sort through the BS to get useful information. >>>>Yes, I agree. Sometimes it’s not worth the time to sort through the BS to get useful information that agrees with my information. 😛 |
I come to these sites for informed opinions and the benefit of others experiences that differ from mine.................sad and interesting how quickly an otherwise reasonable discussion can degrade into a locker room Pss'ing contest............Sometimes it's not worth the time to sort through the BS to get useful information. |
brayeagle As an old-time ham station guy and electrical engineer, I started building my own audio systems following WWII, I’ll state, based on many years of personal experience, that power cords do matter; BUT only in those instances where the cord’s gauge isn’t sufficient to carry the load imposed by the device. >>>>As an younger-time HF Radio, radar and satcom engineer and based on many years of personal experience I think I can be allowed to say that gauge is not the only variable that distinguishes power cords these days for audio. In case anyone was wondering what’s the heck is going on with the prices of power cords these days. Purity of copper, solid core vs stranded, type of dielectric, quality of connectors, quality of wall outlet, outlet cover, directionality of the wire in the power cord, among other things, play important roles in the sound of power cords. |
ostensible_constituency" AUDIOGON - FLIP YOU - Delete me and my account. I DEMAND that you do so now... fake credentials and is a major liar, let’s all agree that he’s a bigger loser than anyone who works at Subway, shall we?... All he can do is come up with BS psuedo-science descriptors for the grifting he attempts to pull off../HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH God what a bunch of losers... I'm not going anywhere until my account is deleted or someone here offers up a definitive stance...
I asked Audiogon mods - some of whom are clearly monitoring this very thread - to delete my account... why don't you try to help me get what I asked for; namely for them to delete my account?...
butt TFO if you don’t have anything to contribute one way or the other besides "predicting" moderator behavior... I’m finished with you because you haven’t contributed anything to any discussion in literal years that is worth addressing. Unless you want to address what I said regarding your nonsense fake credentials and documented history of trying to foist snake oil and quantum-nonsense...
Still no contact from the moderators. Maybe they're not all that concerned...Once again your powers of perception and interpretation fail you. Perhaps you’re not the Internet superhero that you present yourself to be?...
Cue up your latest report of my comment to a moderator...
I am not a shrink, but I think that we need one here and ’stat’!" This guy is a first class whacko nutcase and a decisive example of the dangers of drug and alcohol use the moderators have shown sound judgement and prudence by leaving his posts hear for all to examine as an example of what can go wrong in the human brain let us all hope he gets the professional help he so obviously is in great need of and I hope he gets his diaper changed soon too it's obvious that's it has a load in it! |
I had much the same experience until I tried PS Audio cords. And I doubt they are the only ones who understand electricity. Then it was as clear as a bird chirping in my ear, you know, just a lot cleaner and clearer than hearing them chirping out in my yard through my screen windows. Understand that analogy? But, tell me - do you use walmart speaker wire? Or do you prefer Radio Shack cables? Too bad Radio Shack went tits up! You know, a whole lot of people just live Firds and they just don’t see any difference when they drive a MBZ. My wife is like that with cars but she can pick out a PS Audio cord very easily. Art? Or is it cartoon pics? Hamburgers and fries taste as goid as fine french cuisine, right? Did uou know that 60% of the populace can’t taste any dufference? Why? Very few taste buds, Bud. Niw, I don’t know about ear buds, Buddy, but maybe you have ear plugs? it doesn’t really matter what you appreciate. Just enjoy yourself and forget all about what you might be missing. That way I can enjoy the music and not have to hear the jabbering in the background. |
HAHAHAHAHA http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/machinadynamica2/ib.html I should have known. I'm sorry for picking on you. Now that I know you're 'special' I will lay off. But the OP was correct. There is no difference between power cables. |
Has anyone found Geoff Kait’s imaginary forum? Is it any more or less real than the results he gets from tweaks or audiophile power cables? https://www.stereophile.com/content/geoff-kaits-forum Don’t ask me....there is an answer out there somewhere on the Internets tho....I am not a shrink, but I think that we need one here and ’stat’! And before anyone neglects to follow the thread to the end, please note this comment from earlier this year: Geoff is a troll in case you haven’t figured that out. I have to admit I must be pretty dense as it took me longer than 24 minutes to do so myself. Seems that I’m not alone in my experience/opinion. Maybe no shrink needed afterall (except in Goeff’s case)? "machina dynamica"? is that the name of your tweaks & freaks company? |
How to get a donkey to cross the bridge How to corner Geoff Kait on any topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDsoOQNZRCY but especially the audio tweaks he makes his meager living from. |
Are we Comfortably Numb?Not sure I can speak for anyone else, but I don't think I'll be comfortably numb until I have posted at least 1,500 times. That's a long way off. Lots of listening and dancing to do in the mean time. Wish some of the other regular "contributors" to this thread would consider actually becoming music aficionados instead of psuedo-audiophiles like Geoff. |
So you’re on a mission. You’re an audio Knights Templar, out to save the world from itself and destroy those who oppose you. Got it. No. Once again your powers of perception and interpretation fail you. Perhaps you’re not the Internet superhero that you present yourself to be? I’ll be on the regular forums where I’ve been involved for the past 5 years and contributing to the blog of Dr. AIX (often anonymously since that’s the nature of his comment software/platform) and on various social media Hi-Fi groups and platforms as well as offering advice when asked about circuit design when I feel as though I can contribute. On this topic, and since you’re suddenly so concerned (given your years long membership here and "only" 3,000+ comments), and willing to offer up insulting and quasi-condescending predictions for others including me, what exactly are YOU trying to accomplish here - on THIS very thread? Do you have anything to say about AC power cables or NOT? LOL...pot meet kettle again, right? Or do rules and expectations conveniently not apply to you? Cue up your latest report of my comment to a moderator, as you've been doing for the past day or two. Don't worry, I'm not offended, but you should try to be more honest with yourself even if you're not honest with me and the rest of the readers here wishing to discuss power cables. |
@folkfreak Thanks for that link. As I suspected, Shunyata is doing work to clean up electrical signals on medical imaging equipment cables. That’s legit, and so are power conditioners such as those AQ is discussing in your other link. There is still zero evidence presented for why a power cable ALONE can do anything whatsoever for audio and I will say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Shunyata’s medical supply business unit is NOT using $1,000+ AC power cables for their image/waveform enhancing equipment. So in itself that kind of shoots down the legitimacy of their own expensive AC cable business. Also, they aren't very specific about WHAT they're doing for these medical imaging issues - and I'm sure if they were under contract to one of the big MRI or other imaging firms, they'd be all about letting everybody know. Still....no way in Hades they're selling hospitals $1000 power cables and that's something I'd actually bet money on right now. Audioquest has a documented history of falsifying results or at least letting their resellers do so and then take the blame when caught. Their power cables alone (I’ve never made a statement about power conditioners) are bogus and will not enhance ANY audio system, but the conditioners have a legitimate purpose, even if theirs and Shunyata’s (as compared to say Furman) are way over priced. |
FYI Shunyata’s Medical Technology sub http://clearimagescientific.com And while we’re at it a discussion of the testing regimen used by another designer of power cords and power conditioning https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audioquest-storm-series-and-niagara-ac-power-... |
Until then I can be found elsewhere on the Internet properly explaining this subject to people who are actually interested in learning somethingSo you're on a mission. You're an audio Knights Templar, out to save the world from itself and destroy those who oppose you. Got it. One word of caution. This hobby, like anything else, doesn't take kindly to proselytizing or conversion therapies of any kind. It's much too broad in scope and experience, resulting in rich and varied experiences of a personal nature and not amenable to abusive and personal attacks. But then, you know that already from having to work from home, don't you? You should have left my mom's purse out of this. All the best, Nonoise |
" As an old-time ham station guy and electrical engineer, I started building my own audio systems following WWII, I'll state, based on many years of personal experience, that power cords do matter; BUT only in those instances where the cord's gauge isn't sufficient to carry the load imposed by the device. You just don't run a large Bryston or Pass amplifier on a piece of lamp cord. I have changed power cords on domestic electrical appliances, HF radio equipment and audio amplifier gear when it was obvious the manufacturer skimped on the power cord's gague. What you really should worry about is whether the wall socket is connected to a 15 or to a 20 amp circuit in your home's distribution box. (For example: My Bryston 4BSST2 has its own 20 amp circuit.). Just a thought." Now that we're back on topic, I totally agree with your thought and experience. Now let's see if Geoff and his little crew of hangers-on care to dismiss or denigrate your opinion.... |
It’s all been said already, but you’re so busy huffing and puffing you probably don’t read it. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. If I were you I wouldn’t wait by the phone for someone to agree with you. I’ll say it directly in response to you as well, and since you’re a legitimately conflicted participant - being a person who supposedly earns a living from selling audiophile "tweaks" which one might assume includes cables in addition to "quantum" nonsense - I will resume my participation in this thread as soon as someone re-broaches the actual topic; that is AC power cables. But people like Geoff should be verboten from taking part in any discussion whereby a person asks for objective advice on any audio tweak when he is so clearly conflicted. Until then I can be found elsewhere on the Internet properly explaining this subject to people who are actually interested in learning something - and not subject to some kind of strange personality disorder that prevents them from reading for comprehension or acquiring new knowledge. But if you really want so badly to change the topic, Geoff - Why don’t you give us a rundown of your credentials and/or provide a link to where this has already been done? Until then....I leave you individuals (you know who you are) to your group pathology. LOL P.S. Still no contact from the moderators. Maybe they're not all that concerned after all until someone flags a post? |
As an old-time ham station guy and electrical engineer, I started building my own audio systems following WWII, I'll state, based on many years of personal experience, that power cords do matter; BUT only in those instances where the cord's gauge isn't sufficient to carry the load imposed by the device. You just don't run a large Bryston or Pass amplifier on a piece of lamp cord. I have changed power cords on domestic electrical appliances, HF radio equipment and audio amplifier gear when it was obvious the manufacturer skimped on the power cord's gague. What you really should worry about is whether the wall socket is connected to a 15 or to a 20 amp circuit in your home's distribution box. (For example: My Bryston 4BSST2 has its own 20 amp circuit.). Just a thought. |
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" Do you keep a stash of meth next to your keyboard?" No it’s in your mom’s purse, but that is right by my keyboard. Do you go a day without posting here? In how many decades do you expect I will reach the 3,500 post milestone and be able to join the loser club with you and Geoff? Even at my current meth-addled rate, I'm looking at like 5 years before I have as many comments here as you. And how long have you been a "member"? |
" [note to self: where do all these 🍑🎩 come from?]" They come from you. Because you have nothing better to do. Now, when you want to return to the subject of this thread - namely power cables - please let all of us know and we can resume. Until then, I’m finished with you because you haven’t contributed anything to any discussion in literal years that is worth addressing. Unless you want to address what I said regarding your nonsense fake credentials and documented history of trying to foist snake oil and quantum-nonsense on your "fellow" audiophile. So, let’s just say I’m going to "sleep" on this thread until someone, even you, can re-broach the topic of cables or say something remotely relevant. |
Dude, knock yourself out. When my post total reaches anywhere near yours, we’ll revisit that. Until then, I appreciate your "concern", but kindly butt TFO if you don’t have anything to contribute one way or the other besides "predicting" moderator behavior. Deal? Thanks in advance. |
ostensible_constipation Also, since we all know that Geoff has fake credentials and is a major liar, let’s all agree that he’s a bigger loser than anyone who works at Subway, shall we? I mean at least they can make a decent sandwich. All he can do is come up with BS psuedo-science descriptors for the grifting he attempts to pull off on so-called audiophiles. Whoa! Let’s keep this civil. I apologize to Subway employees for making that comment. That was wrong of me. However, the fact that you like their subs says a lot. [note to self: where do all these 🍑🎩 come from?] |
You seem close enough to an expert - do you think they’ll do that? Or can I expect to be able to sit around here and make fun of the aforementioned individuals indefinitely? Dude, knock yourself out. Also, I've never flagged a post in my life. People like you tend to burn out and then fade away, so whatever it takes to expedite that process..... |
In case you clowns were wondering, my question about what you’ve danced to in the past year wasn’t rhetorical. If you’re not going to address the topic which is power cables, then at least let’s stick to music....have you danced to ANY music in the past year, if so what and what system were you using to listen - or - what live venue were you at? But none of you are interested in audio, much less music at all....’r’ya? Am I the only music lover in this thread and probably the only person that has actually danced in the past 5 years - alone or with someone else? - That IS a rhetorical question. I already know the answers because if previous discussion has been any indication on how disingenuous the answers will be, all I can say is...... P A T H E T I C |
"I thought you said you were leaving......" Could you show me the quote that said "I’m leaving"? I'm not going anywhere until my account is deleted or someone here offers up a definitive stance on power cables, i.e. the subject of the thread. In the mean time.... I asked Audiogon mods - some of whom are clearly monitoring this very thread - to delete my account. When they do, I am leaving. But I am not quite sure what gave you the idea I would have "left" before such time as I am still able to post. In any case, that will involve them deleting all data associated with my account from their servers - buyer/seller/comments thread participant/etc. You seem close enough to an expert - do you think they’ll do that? Or can I expect to be able to sit around here and make fun of the aforementioned individuals indefinitely? Aaaaand....perhaps you might clarify - OR - just admit you’re also piling on and trying to join the cliquish junior high behavior? What is YOUR OPINION on power cords? You DO care about the TOPIC right? |
Also, since we all know that Geoff has fake credentials and is a major liar, let’s all agree that he’s a bigger loser than anyone who works at Subway, shall we? I mean at least they can make a decent sandwich. All he can do is come up with BS psuedo-science descriptors for the grifting he attempts to pull off on so-called audiophiles. How many of you even care about music? I doubt any of you (Geoff, cleeds, clearthink, a few others) have actually stood up and danced in the past 5 years. LMAO---and you know I’m right. If I’m wrong, tell me - what have you danced to recently, and was it better because you had a "better" power cable? Maybe you’ll actually name the music you like if you’re too chickensh*t to say why you prefer expensive power mains cables. Do you even listen to music in a live setting? I kinda doubt it. Plus at concerts/shows they use crummy cords. Sooo...... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH God what a bunch of losers. |
I got them old flashback blues. The more things change the more things stay the same. Same old tired arguments from clones of all the pseudo skeptics that went before. Do you really think I never heard all this before? It’s the same movie, different theater. Try to get a sense of humor somewhere. That would be a start. Spent most of my youth Out hobo cruising And all I got for proof Is rocks in my pockets and dirt in my shoes So goodbye nonbeliever Don't you know that I hate to leave here So long babe, I got the flashback blues |