Power cables capable of conducting sufficient electrical energy (current and voltage) to your equipment make absolutely zero difference to the sound when all other variables are kept the same. The $1000 power cable will not fix any issues inherent in your electrical feed nor will it be capable of conducting more electricity than your amplifier (or other component) needs or was designed to work with. The "audiophile" power cable is a straight fraud and ANY claims to the contrary are based on the placebo effect or someone is trying to fool you or someone else.
Put another way, it is physically impossible for a power cable that is adequately constructed and tested to to work to make any sonic differences in your high fidelity system. And if you think - or actually do - hear an "improvement" then something is very wrong with your setup or with your brain/ears. |
No. Not necessarily. It means you’re experiencing the placebo effect. Aspergers (or any other ailment/condition) are still possible, but there is no causative or correlative relationship between that and the fact that you are hearing what you want to hear - and - that you wouldn’t hear or be able to point out more than 50% of the time in a true double blind A/B comparison test.
I should clarify my first post, however, to say that "very wrong" is only in cases where the placebo effect has been ruled out. |
Here is another way to look at it. Say you have a high end 100WPC Class A/B amp. It should have shipped with a cable that its manufacturer deems acceptable to enable top performance in all possible configurations for which the amp was designed.
Say this amp maker also manufactures $1000 power cables and $5000 power conditioners.
Wouldn't that raise a couple of questions?
1) Would they in good conscience sell me the $1000 power cable knowing that I bought the amp from them and that it came with the power cord they provided? IF so, what would the intended benefit be - electrically speaking? Have they measured for differences on the DC-side of the amp's PS and if so, why don't they publish them? We all know that a high quality power cable can't clean up dirty power....
2) Then what about their $5000 conditioners? Let's say that I have a situation where my power is so dirty/noisy/out of phase that I need one of these conditioners. So now I have their amp and their conditioner, meaning I have a cord they provided and clean, phase aligned AC power on the AC side of the amp's power supply. Have they measured different DC voltages/currents on the DC side of that amp's PS during use? Why not publish or provide these results in an easy to see graph or description?
3) If the company's goal is to ensure that I'm "as close to the music as possible" and they believe that their amplifier needs a conditioner and extra heavy duty expensive power cord, why don't they just sell the whole setup the way they think it sounds best, or why don't they just design their amp's power supply to condition or filter the AC power so that the DC power is "better"?
The whole thing is nonsensical. This is a ploy to extract as much money from you as they can without providing any scientific proof that their system is 1) superior to a standard power cord and isolation transformer/filter or 2) that the added cost and components have measurable differences in audio quality? How many of them would be willing to set up a double blind A/B test or tests (plural) where different power conditions are present? |
Selective ALL CAPS in a sentence is "emphasis" in the absense of text editing functionality. I suppose I could have said *do not* instead, but there are other platforms that interpret asterisks differently. Back on the subject, I’m glad you asked: https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.htmlOh, and did I forget to mention that I also base it on my years of listening to audio equipment, the fact that I have an EE degree and that I've designed both switching and non-switching power supplies - including the type that would be used in audio components? |
And I’ll keep repeating as well - go back and read what the OP asked. All of my explanations are directly and indirectly in response to that.
Someone asked if expensive power cords were "snake oil" and the answer is - "It depends. If you have a properly constructed, shielded AWG 14 or better power cable made of copper or another conductor of sufficient purity, there is no need to spend more than $20 on a power mains cable for use with any audio equipment designed for use in a home or home theater - not to mention a concert hall or recording studio because any perceived differences in sound quality at that point are due to the placebo effect." PERIOD
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Repeating the same dogma over and over, even in the same paragraph, is a sure sign of....you guessed it! In your case it’s a clear sign of projection, which is a psychological coping mechanism, not a valid form of argument. The only thing that qualifies as "dogma" around here is the notion/statement that "my power cable sounds better than yours because I say so!" which gets repeated over and over and over.....not to mention "I don't believe in science!" LOL |
The placebo effect argument works both ways. If you're of the mind that power cables won't make a difference, you'll not hear a difference. That, and you'll point to lots of other people who fell the same way and "documented" it.
In theory, sure. That's why I produced a double blind (or close to it anyway) ABX test to demonstrate my point. Do you understand how a double blind test eliminates the placebo effect? If not, there are resources online where you can learn all about basic testing methodologies. It's a staple in the Rx industry. Some people have called into question the utility of ABX testing in audio, but that's an entirely different argument that you haven't even started to address. The only "documentation" I pointed out was a scientifically conducted test (no test is absolutely perfect) that demonstrated people, even audiophiles, could not hear the difference between power cords with enough frequency to demonstrate they were doing anything other than guessing randomly. Tell me this: If the power mains cable manufacturers are so convinced, whey don't they use their considerable resources to demonstrate once and for all, via controlled double-blind ABX testing that their cables sound "better"? LOL The burden of proof is on them - as they're selling a product they claim has certain benefits - and not on me, who is simply giving my informed opinion to the OP of this thread who asked some questions about expensive power mains cables. |
Uh, you just repeated yourself again. Yup, 🍑🍔🍔
Hey Geoff....you wouldn't happen to sell audio tweaks, would you? I think that if so, it should disqualify you here as it's an obvious conflict of interest when a user asks a forum for objective advice. |
What is an "audio argument"? How does one "win" such an argument?
The fact is that even companies like Shunyata struggle to demonstrate discernible measurable differences between their expensive power cables and others using sensitive test equipment. Even then, that’s on the AC side of the power supply. So for an amp, as an example, which has a built-in power supply consisting of a transformer, rectifier and filter (which also serves as an energy reserve), nothing you can do to a power cord on the AC side of the equation other than damaging it will affect the DC rail voltage in a meaningful or audible way or the availability of reserve current available to the amplifier circuitry. Even Shunyata and the so-called ’scientific’ cable manufacturers cannot show that their cables measure significantly (or at all in most cases) "better" than a standard UL listed 14 AWG shielded power cable.
That’s why people like you and the companies that sell these cables always fall back on the "but it sounds different" audio argument. As though audio is somehow excluded from the realm of the scientific method or subject to physical phenomena that are not understood or able to be isolated.
I’m going to make this short and sweet. NOBODY can hear the difference between two power cables that are capable of carrying the current required to meet the specifications of an amplifier in an otherwise totally controlled experimental audio setup more than 50% of the time.
At the end of the day, it is indeed the placebo effect and if you have purchased a fancy power cable and THINK it sounds better, that's your business. But there is no objective science or proof nor can what you hear be repeated in a reproducible manner for other people, without also tainting that situation via the placebo effect. |
I got through describing why blind tests are unreliable for audio just last week. You should have been here. But I’ll help you out. The reason why negative results for blind tests don’t mean anything for audio is because too many things can go wrong with the test. Pharma doesn’t have nearly the complexity, i.e., number of variables, that audio does. You’re welcome in advance. LMAO - So then we’ve completely eliminated electrical test and measurement and now double blind testing. I guess all we have to go on are our ears and the marketing folks at Audioquest and Shunyata. Case closed! Oh, but how could I forget the resident "expert" Geoff....a guy who also conspicuously neglected to answer my question to him, so I’ll ask it again: Dear Geoff, do you now or have you ever "designed", manufactured or sold audiophile "tweaks" for money?
P.S. they're not "negative" results as anyone with any understanding of statistical methods would have understood. The results of the test demonstrated that even an "audiophile" has less than a 50% chance of correctly identifying the difference between two or more power cables, positive OR negative. Duh! |
That makes zero sense whatsoever. Power cords DO NOT sound different in a controlled blind A/B comparison test. PERIOD. You don’t seem to understand what the placebo effect really is. BTW, power cables are not the same thing as interconnects or speaker cables. Those are actually in the signal path. You are fooling yourself if you think a power cord improves the sound of your audio system and in a controlled experiment I would wager everything that I own and my kid’s college savings that you could not distinguish the difference between two power cables of equivalent length, same AWG (even "effective AWG") with ALL other variables in the given system controlled - more than 50% of the time. IOW, it would be no better than random guessing. Something like this test, but with power cords: http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htmIt would be much simpler just switching out power cables. Oh my...what do you know? Here's a power cable comparison test and guess what.....nobody could do it more than 50% of the time, LOL: https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html |
@elizabeth:
That’s also known as the placebo effect. Enjoy it. It’s a free market society and you can spend your money on whatever you want. When you acquire the fortune necessary to do so, you might also reach out to your electrical utility and have them rewire the transmission lines, transformers and junction boxes in the path to your audio equipment so that your sound will improve even more! In the mean time you can also replace your breakers and every fuse in the circuit shared by your audio equipment. That might really push your system over the edge - you' likely be able to hear the photons strike the cymbals in the recording studio or the number of cigarettes Mick Jagger smoked the night before he recorded "No Satisfaction."
Or you could get a $5000 power conditioner. But you still wouldn’t be hearing any actual difference between your Pangea and a UL listed Tripplite heavy duty shielded power cable with at least 14AWG on any properly designed amplifier or other audio equipment you might own.
To all the people who are offended and/or hurt by scientific rebuttals, please continue to enjoy your mains cable "tweaks" and don’t bother to do any reading about electrical or electrical engineering concepts. Trust your ears. LOL. |
So your claim about not being able to distinguish between power cables power cables in a blind test is based on someone else’s 14-year-old test? No. And in case you’re having trouble reading for comprehension or keeping up with the thread, that’s simply an example of someone conducting the type of test that I had suggested to the previous poster if he/she was really interested in proving that one power cord could "sound better" than another. Besides, do you have any test, of any age, that contradicts that one? Let's see it. No, you didn’t mention that, which is the logical fallacy of a call to authority. Please tell us: Have you ever conducted an actual blind test to substantiate your belief? Have you ever participated in such a test? That’s because I wasn’t talking to you and nobody else asked, but when one happens to have more expertise in a given field than another person does (unless of course he wishes to clarify about his own credentials in EE or a related field), that’s not "appeal to authority" and you clearly also don’t understand the definition of that logical fallacy. Appeal to authority would be along the lines of: "_________ says there is an audible improvement between cheap and expensive power cables and ______ manufactures expensive power cables, therefore he is correct." Which is not what I did. I said that I’ve designed power supplies and that in so doing, and in working with numerous EEs and EE students over the years, nobody has ever demonstrated that one power cable of the proper rating/listing will "perform" differently when measuring the DC side of a power supply than any other power cable. Have I participated in blind A/B comparison studies? No, I’ve done some switching back and forth with already-burned-in (another bogus concept, but I did it to show that I was serious) power mains cables and I’ve read what actual engineers and engineering textbooks have to say about it. At the end of the day, and bottom line - if there are no electrically measurable differences on the DC-side of the power supply from changing power mains cables, then there are no objectively discernible audible differences coming out of the speakers, all other things being controlled/equal. Can YOU or ANYONE ELSE hear a difference? Possibly, but that’s the placebo effect. Rather than continue down this path where people are incorrectly accusing me of using logical fallacies that they clearly don’t understand, why doesn’t someone point me to some test results that are at least somewhat scientific that DO show a measurable or audible difference between a standard, well shielded, UL listed heavy duty power cable and an expensive "audiophile" power cable? I’ve already produced a test and explained why, from an engineering perspective, there is no difference so long as the current gets to the power supply and nothing is impeding it. But so far I’ve seen nothing to prove or even strongly suggest that there is a scientific basis for any of the claims from people or manufacturers that insist a $500 power mains cable sounds better than a $15 Tripplite from Home Depot or Frye’s. |
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" How much money is that for someone like you who writes, thinks and challenges like that of a third or fourth grader it is probably your entire piggy bank is it more than $100 USD? Please explain to us the exact amount of resources that you are willing to commit to the challenge you put forth towards the participants here in this group." And yet you still report my posts to the moderators for removal rather than let them stand on their own to demonstrate "third or fourth grade" writing. Riiiiiiight. That’s the clearest case of projection I’ve seen yet. The amount of money I’d be willing to put up, given the proper experimental setup (that is, one vetted by any expert on double blind testing) would be....let’s say....substantial, even to a fake Internet rich guy like yourself..... and this amount would be paid out to you and your "group" if the results favored your (vague, ambiguous, whiny) argument in this "debate". But here’s where you try to change the subject again, right? Make a report to the mods? Besides, make up your mind - are you willing to engage in this conversation, which may or may not culminate in a personal bet that YOU (not I) keep talking about and bringing up, or are you scared to debate the actual topic, which is the science or lack therof behind "upgraded" or "high end" mains AC cables or not? Are you going to keep diverting and dissembling or are you going to be able to focus on the merits of the points raised and an honest reading of what other posters actually write, rather than the fever dreams in your addled mind? Also can you finally just learn to read for comprehension and if you’re truly interested in proving the merits of these cables, let’s find a way to get the manufacturers or proponents of such to prove that their cables enhance the audio in a given system controlling for all other variables? This kind of question requires a YES or NO response. |
Oops a Daisy, that was 15 years ago. Good point. Or is it? One of your fellow snake oil believers said that my study proving power cables don’t make a difference was too old - 14 years. Perhaps there have been changes to cable tech in the mean time and the OP wishes to follow up? Or maybe it’s just more fun to assume he’s reading, while I take apart your non-arguments on the topic and call you out for the trolling you’re doing off-topic. Which is seemingly your hobby and main daily activity: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/do-cables-really-matter/post?postid=1593624#1593624:-) Sorry, but I cannot keep up with your "itchy trigger finger" and I have work to do today. Enjoy the trolling in numerous other threads. |
For anyone casually stumbling onto this particular thread such as I did the other day, or the OP following up on his long-ago request for advice, it must be very interesting to note that "sides" or "camps" have been formed and that the members of one "camp" engage in one type of argument while the other side has chosen a different approach. Those of us who claim that there is no scientific merit to manufacturer statements that - across the board - a "high end" or "higher quality beyond AWG and shielding" power AC cable will make an audible, discernible difference, nay, IMPROVEMENT in the sound of every high-end system of a certain caliber are attempting to focus on real-world physics, engineering, or solutions that even involve some form of teaming up with the other "side" to prove once and for all who’s right and who’s wrong. That kind of solution requires some kind of capital outlay by either a manufacturer or participants in a side-wager to the type of study that would be required to end this debate, but why not brainstorm about it here without getting personal or misrepresenting what the other "side" says? On the Mfg. side, I offer up an example such as Shunyata’s (comments disabled) video whereby they purport to present a demonstration of their superior power cable by using a peak current meter on an AC outlet and then on their cable, followed by an inferior cable (in AWG (conductor thickness) as well as construction) which has nothing whatsoever to say about or do with the way an AC/DC power supply works in an average user’s home nor does it address the fact that MOST if not ALL home audio equipment will never need to draw the peak amperage that they demonstrate. That’s just one example. There are many others. When links are posted to previous studies or comparos, those are denigrated as "14 years old" (as though power cable technology has changed? If so, please note how) or that the person making the post wasn’t a direct participant in the test, which is why the new test is being proposed in the first place. So, until then: https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html remains the standard. Meanwhile, those who claim that an expensive AC mains cable will discernibly or even DRASTICALLY IMPROVE the sound of most hi-fi audio systems have abandoned any attempt to argue the merits or scientific side of their case, instead resorting to personal attacks, changing the subject, making accusations about the alleged behavior of the other side and muddying the entire discourse by focusing on only one aspect of a post and intentionally, repeatedly misinterpreting it. And if you’re just interested in reading about the history of this type of debate without having to learn about the imaginary business fortunes of individual netizens who claim to be able to throw away $25,000 *because* they were/are a successful businessperson, here you go: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths.486598/There are plenty more out there, and the vast, overwhelming consensus, is that you don’t need to spend a fortune on cables (and not much AT ALL on power cables or digital interconnects), nor will you hear any actual, non-placebo effect improvements if you do, but feel free to spend your money however you want. And to be perfectly clear, on speaker cables and other interconnects in the signal path, spending more money DOES improve the sound - but only to a point well below $75/ft. |
Back on-topic to anyone else who might be reading and interested in a real discussion rather than internet posturing and self-aggrandizement, I read that Shunyata had entered the world of medical devices.
Does anyone have any actual information on what they're doing or what kind of products they're selling - or for how much $$?
Thanks in advance. |
>>>>Busy day at Subway?
Hmm I wonder why the mods let you get away with posting inflammatory and offensive comments like that where you degrade people who work at subway, but they delete posts that call you out for it?
Let's see how long your post stays up so that we all can plainly observe your derision and condescension for people who work in fast food. |
There it is! When the pseudo skeptic’s back is up against the wall he lashes out out with the usual attacks. It’s the other side that’s abandoned rational debate and science, resorting to personal attacks, changing the subject, making baseless accusations, muddying the entire discourse, and misinterpreting the pseudo skeptic’s argument. There is no acknowledgment of or rebuttal of the counter arguments. Just a lotta who shot John. You’ve gone all Pee Wee Herman on us, Geoff. "I know you are but what am I" or "I’m rubber you’re glue" are not valid or particularly constructive arguments. If, on the other hand, you’re agreeing with me that proponents of expensive tweaks and AC power cables are indeed engaging in all kinds of ad hominem because they cannot articulate or elucidate any measurable or repeatable improvements, and your most recent post was just a clever parody of this behavior, let’s start reporting these "psuedo-______" people to the mods! They’re disruptive! If I’m wrong on both counts, please enlighten me and point me to the scientific experiments that I am not acknowledging, whereby AC mains cables have been shown to make an audible difference in a controlled environment or with full transparency to the listener as to what was being changed? I've been commenting in good faith here up to and including the links I've posted that point to actual tests which have been conducted. If you're here in good faith, please point me to the objective tests which prove the opposite and we can agree to disagree or I will admit that I'm wrong. |
As I listen to the results of buying a few new power cords, and adding in a pair of Furutech GTX duplex
Awesome. Glad you are enjoying them and that your opinion of them is positive. All of you cable snobs seem to have very strident opinions. And that's what they are, until you start producing some reproducible data points: opinions. |
Also, since we all know that Geoff has fake credentials and is a major liar, let’s all agree that he’s a bigger loser than anyone who works at Subway, shall we? I mean at least they can make a decent sandwich. All he can do is come up with BS psuedo-science descriptors for the grifting he attempts to pull off on so-called audiophiles.
How many of you even care about music? I doubt any of you (Geoff, cleeds, clearthink, a few others) have actually stood up and danced in the past 5 years. LMAO---and you know I’m right. If I’m wrong, tell me - what have you danced to recently, and was it better because you had a "better" power cable? Maybe you’ll actually name the music you like if you’re too chickensh*t to say why you prefer expensive power mains cables. Do you even listen to music in a live setting? I kinda doubt it. Plus at concerts/shows they use crummy cords. Sooo......
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH God what a bunch of losers. |
Actually no, you haven’t at all. You’ve attempted to engage contributors here in wagering. The moderators deleted those posts. You’ve also made claims about the group, but then failed to substantiate them. For example: ... The only thing that qualifies as "dogma" around here is the notion/statement that "my power cable sounds better than yours because I say so!" which gets repeated over and over and over ... .....not to mention "I don’t believe in science! No. Again for those who lack adequate reading comprehension skills, I said that I would take part in a "wager" IF there was an acceptably scientific study done on the power cable debate and I stand by that. I never proposed any specific wager, and in fact, another user put an actual $$ figure out there - I believe it was $25K. Yet you don’t have any problem with that. Hmmm....can you say.....CONFLICTED? or.....HYPOCRISY? or.....POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK? Complain about my language all you want but that has no bearing on the good faith of my argument. And you’ve manufactured other claims, such as this: One of your fellow snake oil believers said that my study proving power cables don’t make a difference was too old - 14 years. You think I manufactured that claim? You didn’t see the post where someone questioned the veracity or legitimacy of the link I provided because it was 14 years ago? I’m sorry if you’re also hard of seeing, but it’s there and the burden of proof is not on me to prove it, as anyone with any kind of computing device can simply go back through the comments on this thread to verify that indeed it’s there. In fact here it is, by @cleeds (i.e. YOU):
Back on the subject, I’m glad you asked:
https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html So your claim about not being able to distinguish between power cables power cables in a blind test is based on someone else’s 14-year-old test?
Why do you feel the need to lie and obfuscate, then report my posts to moderators when you don't have a valid or effective counter argument? Once again, simply saying things over and over doesn’t make them true. I’m the one attempting to engage in good faith debate here, you and yours are doing the exact opposite and you’re apparently willing to lie or overlook things that actually happened in order to make your "point"....which is???? What IS your point here? |
It may mean all sorts of things. No - it was meant to insult anyone who works in fast food as though they have no valid opinion on anything related to audio. Stop dissembling and trying to distract. It's pathetic. It was also in theme with two other recent comments by different participants which implied that they were ultra-successful businessmen and that they could afford audio tweaks and cables that the rest of us can't. That's totally false. And offensive - especially considering the other things that moderators have removed (or which you and yours have flagged for removal). It's hypocrisy to downplay that comment and then flag mine for removal. Yeah it is slightly insulting on the face of it. Nice admission and attempt to downplay it. The ’odd" parts are the extended responses. all of which add endless baggage to the simple statement, none of which is justified in any way! Provide examples or your allegations have no merit. "ALL" the extended responses to the Subway post? There was ONE and it was deleted by a mod so I mentioned it again. You need to re-assess your grasp on reality. So i suggest stop trying to expand the statement into the downtrodden workers of the World, and all the rest.
That's projection or just intentional misinterpretation. Nobody mentioned "the world" or "workers" - rather I called out that he was being intentionally condescending and engaging in ad hominem in order to discredit the opinion of someone with whom he disagreed, by explicitly accusing me of working at Subway. Proof most audiophiles have zero sense of humor. And it SHOWS. The fact is the added responses are desperately trying to make something out of nothing. Like if we blow this all out of proportion, maybe somebody on "The Insider" TV show will notice it?
Your responses all exhibit this exact tendency. Something out of nothing, zero humor, etc. So what do you think you're accomplishing here? Two can easily play at this little game of yours "Elizabeth".... |
"....
which the mods frown upon. You'll find out soon enough..." You mean after you flag my posts? Hey - since you're in so well with the mods, why don't you try to help me get what I asked for; namely for them to delete my account? |
Dude, knock yourself out.
Also, I’ve never flagged a post in my life. People like you tend to burn out and then fade away, so whatever it takes to expedite that process..... When my post total reaches anywhere near yours, we’ll revisit that. Until then, I appreciate your "concern", but kindly butt TFO if you don’t have anything to contribute one way or the other besides "predicting" moderator behavior. Deal? Thanks in advance. |
John Prine and Princess Bride quotes instead of any further justification for ridiculous claims. LMAOOOOOOOOOO --- and the mods have let the subway ridicule stand.
AUDIOGON - FLIP YOU - Delete me and my account. I DEMAND that you do so now. |
" [note to self: where do all these 🍑🎩 come from?]" They come from you. Because you have nothing better to do. Now, when you want to return to the subject of this thread - namely power cables - please let all of us know and we can resume. Until then, I’m finished with you because you haven’t contributed anything to any discussion in literal years that is worth addressing. Unless you want to address what I said regarding your nonsense fake credentials and documented history of trying to foist snake oil and quantum-nonsense on your "fellow" audiophile. So, let’s just say I’m going to "sleep" on this thread until someone, even you, can re-broach the topic of cables or say something remotely relevant. |
In case you clowns were wondering, my question about what you’ve danced to in the past year wasn’t rhetorical.
If you’re not going to address the topic which is power cables, then at least let’s stick to music....have you danced to ANY music in the past year, if so what and what system were you using to listen - or - what live venue were you at?
But none of you are interested in audio, much less music at all....’r’ya? Am I the only music lover in this thread and probably the only person that has actually danced in the past 5 years - alone or with someone else? - That IS a rhetorical question. I already know the answers because if previous discussion has been any indication on how disingenuous the answers will be, all I can say is......
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Are we Comfortably Numb?
Not sure I can speak for anyone else, but I don't think I'll be comfortably numb until I have posted at least 1,500 times. That's a long way off. Lots of listening and dancing to do in the mean time. Wish some of the other regular "contributors" to this thread would consider actually becoming music aficionados instead of psuedo-audiophiles like Geoff. |
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"I thought you said you were leaving......" Could you show me the quote that said "I’m leaving"? I'm not going anywhere until my account is deleted or someone here offers up a definitive stance on power cables, i.e. the subject of the thread. In the mean time.... I asked Audiogon mods - some of whom are clearly monitoring this very thread - to delete my account. When they do, I am leaving. But I am not quite sure what gave you the idea I would have "left" before such time as I am still able to post. In any case, that will involve them deleting all data associated with my account from their servers - buyer/seller/comments thread participant/etc. You seem close enough to an expert - do you think they’ll do that? Or can I expect to be able to sit around here and make fun of the aforementioned individuals indefinitely? Aaaaand....perhaps you might clarify - OR - just admit you’re also piling on and trying to join the cliquish junior high behavior? What is YOUR OPINION on power cords? You DO care about the TOPIC right? |
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As an old-time ham station guy and electrical engineer, I started building my own audio systems following WWII, I'll state, based on many years of personal experience, that power cords do matter; BUT only in those instances where the cord's gauge isn't sufficient to carry the load imposed by the device. You just don't run a large Bryston or Pass amplifier on a piece of lamp cord. I have changed power cords on domestic electrical appliances, HF radio equipment and audio amplifier gear when it was obvious the manufacturer skimped on the power cord's gague. What you really should worry about is whether the wall socket is connected to a 15 or to a 20 amp circuit in your home's distribution box. (For example: My Bryston 4BSST2 has its own 20 amp circuit.). Just a thought."
Now that we're back on topic, I totally agree with your thought and experience. Now let's see if Geoff and his little crew of hangers-on care to dismiss or denigrate your opinion.... |
So you’re on a mission. You’re an audio Knights Templar, out to save the world from itself and destroy those who oppose you. Got it.
No. Once again your powers of perception and interpretation fail you. Perhaps you’re not the Internet superhero that you present yourself to be? I’ll be on the regular forums where I’ve been involved for the past 5 years and contributing to the blog of Dr. AIX (often anonymously since that’s the nature of his comment software/platform) and on various social media Hi-Fi groups and platforms as well as offering advice when asked about circuit design when I feel as though I can contribute. On this topic, and since you’re suddenly so concerned (given your years long membership here and "only" 3,000+ comments), and willing to offer up insulting and quasi-condescending predictions for others including me, what exactly are YOU trying to accomplish here - on THIS very thread? Do you have anything to say about AC power cables or NOT? LOL...pot meet kettle again, right? Or do rules and expectations conveniently not apply to you? Cue up your latest report of my comment to a moderator, as you've been doing for the past day or two. Don't worry, I'm not offended, but you should try to be more honest with yourself even if you're not honest with me and the rest of the readers here wishing to discuss power cables. |
Wow, somebody’s sure got a bad case of the 🍑
Bad case of the peach emojis? |
" Do you keep a stash of meth next to your keyboard?" No it’s in your mom’s purse, but that is right by my keyboard. Do you go a day without posting here? In how many decades do you expect I will reach the 3,500 post milestone and be able to join the loser club with you and Geoff? Even at my current meth-addled rate, I'm looking at like 5 years before I have as many comments here as you. And how long have you been a "member"? |
@folkfreak
Thanks for that link. As I suspected, Shunyata is doing work to clean up electrical signals on medical imaging equipment cables. That’s legit, and so are power conditioners such as those AQ is discussing in your other link.
There is still zero evidence presented for why a power cable ALONE can do anything whatsoever for audio and I will say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Shunyata’s medical supply business unit is NOT using $1,000+ AC power cables for their image/waveform enhancing equipment. So in itself that kind of shoots down the legitimacy of their own expensive AC cable business. Also, they aren't very specific about WHAT they're doing for these medical imaging issues - and I'm sure if they were under contract to one of the big MRI or other imaging firms, they'd be all about letting everybody know. Still....no way in Hades they're selling hospitals $1000 power cables and that's something I'd actually bet money on right now.
Audioquest has a documented history of falsifying results or at least letting their resellers do so and then take the blame when caught. Their power cables alone (I’ve never made a statement about power conditioners) are bogus and will not enhance ANY audio system, but the conditioners have a legitimate purpose, even if theirs and Shunyata’s (as compared to say Furman) are way over priced. |
Has anyone found Geoff Kait’s imaginary forum? Is it any more or less real than the results he gets from tweaks or audiophile power cables? https://www.stereophile.com/content/geoff-kaits-forumDon’t ask me....there is an answer out there somewhere on the Internets tho....I am not a shrink, but I think that we need one here and ’stat’! And before anyone neglects to follow the thread to the end, please note this comment from earlier this year: Geoff is a troll in case you haven’t figured that out. I have to admit I must be pretty dense as it took me longer than 24 minutes to do so myself. Seems that I’m not alone in my experience/opinion. Maybe no shrink needed afterall (except in Goeff’s case)? "machina dynamica"? is that the name of your tweaks & freaks company? |
What's the matter Geoff? LOL you seem to have become way more quiet than usual.....everything OK? |
It’s all been said already, but you’re so busy huffing and puffing you probably don’t read it. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. If I were you I wouldn’t wait by the phone for someone to agree with you. I’ll say it directly in response to you as well, and since you’re a legitimately conflicted participant - being a person who supposedly earns a living from selling audiophile "tweaks" which one might assume includes cables in addition to "quantum" nonsense - I will resume my participation in this thread as soon as someone re-broaches the actual topic; that is AC power cables. But people like Geoff should be verboten from taking part in any discussion whereby a person asks for objective advice on any audio tweak when he is so clearly conflicted. Until then I can be found elsewhere on the Internet properly explaining this subject to people who are actually interested in learning something - and not subject to some kind of strange personality disorder that prevents them from reading for comprehension or acquiring new knowledge. But if you really want so badly to change the topic, Geoff - Why don’t you give us a rundown of your credentials and/or provide a link to where this has already been done? Until then....I leave you individuals (you know who you are) to your group pathology. LOL P.S. Still no contact from the moderators. Maybe they're not all that concerned after all until someone flags a post? |
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