Power Cords Snake Oil ??

Jive big time HELLO!!!!

The way I understand power is that it does NOT start at the power station, flow through wire, and then is used up in our amps, but instead the electrons push against the next electron. Its not a flow, but a miniscule exchange that is reversed every 60 cycles per second....so that your power cord is actually the FIRST foot of wire that the amp sees, not the last of miles of wire. It has been MY experience that there is NO cable that makes more of a difference than power cables. Again....each design has to be auditioned in each system to hear what that cable does. It has also been my experience that power conditioners can change the sound, but nearly always does so at the expense of some other aspect of the total sound picture. I have never met a power conditioner I could live with.

Stringreen, respectfully, you are not even close. There is current flow, it is just the the polarity changes 60 times per second.

So if its snake oil dont buy any!!

Why resurrect a seven year old thread? R.I.P

Bjeisen,

I suspect that most happily married men with a loving wife, would be grateful for 7....just once in a while...even at the risk of going completely deaf!

Solution to #7... I wear cotton in my ears and also my nose. I can't stand to hear a women screaming, and worse... I hate the smell of burning rubber:)

The input terminals on the back of all powered audio equipment, and thus the equipment's performance, is affected by two things, the input voltage and the frequency. I think the marketing success of special power cords, comes from their ability to convince the buyer that there are other "spooks and goblins" in the electricity that can somehow degrade audio performance, and that their product fixes these issues. All that is required for any well designed component to perform to it's maximum potential is that the power supplied to it be 110V/60Hz power. If the wall outlet supplies these requirements, there is nothing that any power cord can do to improve it.

Is that a fact? Well now, we can retire this thread and move on!

In another thread, Danomcroo wrote:

Hi all. My first post on the forum, and I'm posting here because after reading these audio threads for several months, I know there is a wealth of knowledge to be tapped.

Not looking for that here?

Regards,

I am a relative noobie when it comes to high end audio speakers, but I spend 6 years repairing communications equipment for the Air Force. I do know a little about electrical theory. I can see this forum is going to be far more entertaining than the dull old college football blogs.

He has, by now, learned it ALL and has become the Audio Pope(imagine that).

I am by no means attempting to besmirch any product. If a person feels compelled to spend $1200 for something they could buy for $12.50, go for it! But, $1200 worth of acoustic wall panels and bass traps will ALWAYS be a better investment than a magic power cord or holy speaker wire.

07-24-11: Danomcroo
I am by no means attempting to besmirch any product.

Yes you are.

But, $1200 worth of acoustic wall panels and bass traps will ALWAYS be a better investment than a magic power cord or holy speaker wire.

No it isn't. Room treatment addresses speaker/room interaction non-linearities. Power cords address line noise and current delivery to the power supply. Speaker cables address signal transfer from the amplifier to the speakers.

You could spend $10,000 on room treatment and *still* not address an audible issue that can be addressed only by a cable swap.

Next time you want to use your job experience as a blanket condemnation of certain aspects of audio tuning, why not run it by Anthony H. Cordesman?

Let's look at the term "snake oil".

Its an old term brought back to life, now related to audio and not medicine.

We all know stories about the travelling medicine man.
Then the gullible folks who were duped out of their money, by miraculous but false claims.
Where are the scietists when you need them?

But the difference between then an now is that the folks who bought the stuff from the medicine man, never had a chance to try the oil before they bought it.

When it comes to power cords, you have the choice.

If you don't hear any difference in your system and with your ears,you won't buy the product.For you that's proof of snake oil.

If someone does hear an improvement and buys the product,he wasn't conned, and to him the product is not snake oil.

He hears it, you don't.

That's the simple fact, to have to prove it to the denier, is moot.

The denier is not required to buy the expensive power cords.
He can decide to spend his money elsewhere in this hobby as he sees fit.
Maybe a better power amp.
Maybe several others when that power amp doesn't seem to do it for him.

The power cord in all these transactions is most always the stock cord that came with the amp.

The amps come and go, each with the promise of sonic nirvana, but afterawhile it's the amps that are precieved as snake oil, and then the whole hobby is rife with snake oil con artists and their shills.
The audiophile's pursuit of the absolute sound has ended in another burn out.

Another one bites the dust, goes off the merry go round and makes do with whatever he can cobble from the pawn shops of broken audio dreams, and tells us this is his sonic bliss.
Who are we to tell him otherwise?
We bought snake oil afterall.

Buy FM Acoustics, they don't provide any option of PC but OEM one.

I wonder how many people that have said "sanke oil" now own such snake oil and couldn't be happier?

No snake oil - good ones make a difference - here's why...

NOTE: For brevity I am going to bypass the power requirements of the electronic circuits and the many factors that influence circuit design etc.....mainly because I don't recall them from 40 years ago when I did have some understanding of them :-)))

So looking at the back-end of the amplifier - i.e. Speaker terminals...

The signal "sent" to a loudspeaker consists of a varying VOLTAGE (i.e. at the musical frequencies and various volume levels of instruments) - a very dynamic and complex signal

The "impedance" of the speaker governs the amount of CURRENT that is "drawn from the amp"
- impedance is like resistance, except...
- you have to factor in inductive and capacitive elements
- those vary with frequency - so impedance too is very dynamic!
- Current Drawn = voltage(which is dynamic) / impedance (which is very dynamic)
- net result - the frequencies in the music causes very dynamic variations in current "drawn from the amp"
- if you could see a waveform of the current delivered to the speaker it would resemble the musical waveform - sort of :-))
- So - POWER CONSUMED = CURRENT x VOLTS - all of which are directly related to the musical waveform and very dynamic

Now - at the wall outlet end of the amp -

The mains supply to all components is constant at 120v ac (I'm not debating power fluctuations here OK!)

Basically remembering that "POWER IN = POWER OUT"
- if POWER = CURRENT x VOLTS and the volts are constant @ 120v
- then CURRENT = POWER/120v
- if the power at the speaker terminals is dynamic (from above)
- then the CURRENT required from the mains supply will be dynamic also
- WHY? - because the voltage at the outlet is constant!

So, providing your house supply is sufficient, you can see that the mains supply current requirements are directly related to the musical frequencies and very dynamic and will have all the same requirements as interconnects and speaker cables - it needs good quality copper.

So what happens if the component cannot get the instantaneous current levels required?
- the component experiences an internal instantaneous voltage drop
- this seriously impacts the performance of the component across the board!

So we spend a lot of money on the best quality copper for speaker cables and interconnects, having low resistance/inductance/capacitance and quality connectors to get better transmission

- then a component manufacturer sticks a crappy 18 gauge mains cable in the box and we use it !
- but first we toss the crappy interconnect (that is about the same quality) - because that's not good enough!
- GO FIGURE!

SO - Doesn't the component also deserve a Mains Cable of similar quality as ALL other cables in our system?
- probably more so.

Only with good power cords can we hear the real differences further down the line!

So snake oil? - some cables market a lot of hype, when in fact it is pretty simple - look for...
- good quality copper
- some form of noise cancelling geometries or shielding
- good quality plugs/connectors

Yes - the supply fluctuates - cables won't help that
Yes - some amps may benefit from a cable that has some smoothing properties (verdict still out on this one)
Yes - silver cables are probably better than copper (verdict still out on this one)
And a million other claims.

Bottom line - a good cable like a Furutech (that's what I know works on my system) will provide sonic improvements

If it doesn't then the power cord is not your problem - look elsewhere!

I wonder if the people who can't hear improvements, be it power cords, fuses, wires etc,really take the effort to really listen and evaluate the sound of their systems?

I'll bet they are passive listeners, sometimes called music lovers, but aren't we all in this hobby because of the music?

Ah yes, but some folks are content to just plug it in to the wall with whatever came in the box and listen to music as sonic wallpaper while they pay attention to other things.

If that is the type of music lover that you are, then yes of course none of this aftermarket stuff is relevant to you.
I can see why you would rather spend your hard earned money on more music, which of course you will only be listening to in the background.

Some of us, for whatever reasons, tend to push the envelope.
Some folks like to modify their cars and tweak up performance , while others are content to just get to work and get back home safe and sound.

I think the group who are after upgraded performance get where the other side is coming from, they've been there.

The other side ,however, hasn't been anywhere different than where they've been since day one.

I'm certain that this is the group that will never be swayed or converted.

It's just not in their genes.

"I wonder if the people who can't hear improvements, be it power cords, fuses, wires etc,really take the effort to really listen and evaluate the sound of their systems?"

This applys to me. You miss all the music listening for wire. A lot of good detailed explainations, but they failed to explain how it all impacts the SOUND that reaches your ears. The effect of All phenomena in nature cannot be heard by human beings! I cannot believe this is so hard to comprehend.

Lacee - don't forget that the differences they may fail to detect also depends on the other cables in their systems which may or may not allow them to hear a difference.

If either the speaker cables or interconnects are not of sufficient quality or gauge, they will not hear any improvement.

I have very good 10 gauge speaker cables and phono interconnects with balanced conductors and directional screens. They make a huge difference to the complete sound and allowed me to hear improvements

But you are correct in that people listen for different things - e.g. I listen to the musical phrasing, not the actual words.

The armonico Power Cord from Fono Acustica is changing the view many people have about power cords in general. I have witness how this PC truly transform the sound of a system for the better regardless of what other cables are being used in a system. I also witness how this PC has changed the minds of many none believers, while I do agree that there are lot snake oil products in the market the armonico PC is worth to try.

Hmmm...first post by Pierre620. I suspect a shill.

At $7300 - I would hope it would change peoples minds - at least in a positive direction.

There's also the TOTL - Odin Supreme Reference from Nordost @ $7000 (I believe that's the price)

Now back to the real world...

So since my first append above I have added a DH Labs Power Plus PC to my system at a very reasonable $49 for 7 ft of cable+ $40 for connectors.

Replacing the 10 awg furutech cable on my amp made no difference to the sound!
- but then it didn't get any worse :-)
- the furutech cost $250 to build myself

Replacing 15 awg Furutech DIY cable on the power conditioner however did result in a significant improvement across the board...
- improved detail across the complete frequency range
- more spacious 3D stage
- smoother highs
- deeper bass
- more dynamic

all in all - a nice little upgrade :-)

The Furutech seems to have "industrial" written all over it and would be right at home in harsh chemical environments.

The DH labs cable is not of the same build quality as the Furutech, But then it doesn't need to be because it's designed for audio use only and has great quality copper, which is the important thing here.

AND - if you search AG forums there are many references to DH Labs and their very respectable performance levels.

If you are thinking about upgrading PC's - give DH Labs Power Plus a whirl

If you live in a harsh environment - or just want a cable built like a TANK! - try the Furutech

Why did I decide to try DH Labs over other cables like Pangea? - well, their whole design philosophy made a lot of sense and they laid their designs out on the web for everyone to see, just like Furutech and Van Den Hul does.

Seeing it helps me believe it :-)

Companies that just tell me "it will sound better!"
- well that's just asking me to rub on the snake oil :-)

OK, so since my last posting I've had a chance to revamp a few parts of my system and the following is what transpired...

I looked at the bottlenecks in my power supply components and in the power supply to the phono stage and the DAC the fuses seemed the weakest link. I replaced them with push button breakers, which allowed the attached sources to really improve their performance.

I also replaced the power conditioner with a DIY power distribution centre that utilized Pass and Seymour outlets and a push button breaker for safety.

I then tried some different power cord combinations and found that the Furutech outperformed the DH Labs Encore cable - not by a lot, but it was discernible.

The DH Labs Power Plus cable is still a top performer, capable of satisfying the most dynamic power demands.

So, my new benchmark power cables are the Furutech.

But if your budget will not stretch to their price point, the DH Labs power cables are very respectable options at a much more affordable cost.

Cost conscious readers should also take a look at the Vanguard line of connectors on eBay, which are gold on copper and very affordable at $23 for a mains plug and an IEC connector.

Enjoy:-)

If power cords can't make a difference, then nothing else in this hobby should either.

If you think stranded copper wire will sound just the same as solid core, then a tube amp should sound the same as a solid state amp.

If you think 18 guage zip wire sounds as good as Crystal cable,then a 300B tube sounds the same as an el84.

But of course nothing sounds the same as anything except it's self.Especially so if the gear are constructed from different materials and in different ways.An amp is an amp,if they meet the same specs they should sound identical.But do they all sound the same?
Remember when people avoided cars made on Fidays and Mondays?
I would like to know what amp has the ideal sound, so that we can clone it?
Sorry, I've never heard a modelling amp that when compared directly to the "source" sounds exactly the same.
Somehow old black face Fender amps sound different than the newer ones do, even if the names are the same.
A synthed Hammond B3 sound is nice, but nothing can match the real vintage B3 with a Leslie 145.
They sound about the same, but it's more like listening to a recording of a B3/Hammond,while the real thing sounds like the real thing.
And that comes from working onstage in a group with a Hammond X2 played by one fellow and a real B3,Leslie, played by another.The real thing has more presence, and the sound pressure(not volume) just envelopes you more than the synth organ.

Something tells me a small 5 inch woofer will sound a bit different than a Klanghorn, even if moddeled after the Klanghorn.

I remember reading about a fellow doing a repair to Robbie Robertson's guitar years ago, and noticed that one of his pickups had more windings around the magnet than he was used to seeing.
Robbie always had a "sound" but no one knew it was all just a chance happening.The fellow at the Fender factory was nearing the end of the roll winding the pickup and decided to just let the spool run out.
The extra bit of wire made the difference in sound.
That fellow, was Seymour Duncan,and he made a name for himself out of this discovery.

But why buy any of his pickups?
Why should they sound any different than a stock pick up?

Why should a $15,000.00 Clearaudio cartridge sound any better than a $150.00 Grado?
They are both capable of doing the job.
Why spend more if you don't have to?

Well you don't.
Some folks are quite happy with a cheaper Grado, in a system of cheaper components using zip wire, stock power cords and straight into the wall.

And then there are those who aren't .

To appreciate the good stuff, you have to ween yourself away from the mediocre stuff, and forget about all the science that tells you nothing should make a difference.

That's the kind of belief in science that put the fear of falling off the edge of the earth into everyone's minds,until someone proved the science wrong.

I understand there are those who can not distinguish differences in power cords, fuses, etc,but all that proves is that they do not hear the differences.
THat doesn't mean that no one else can't or is incapable of hearing differences.
There could be many reasons for this,physical, gear related, lack of learning how to listen crtically,attention deficit disorders,or just the desire to use listening to music as a way to block out the stress of the day.Passive listening habits.
If all you want from your sound is a bit of relief, then why sweat the hard stuff trying to improve the sound?
That's just more work and stress.And it costs money, which I have other things that appeal more to me to spend it on.

But for me it's all about sweating out the details.
After I did, the listening experience was even more rewarding.

Power cords,and other things labelled snake oil have given me some of the best sound ever.
All I have to do is to take them out and go back to "stock"
to prove it to myself.
And I'm the only one I need to prove it to.

Being away from Hi-Fi for a couple decades, I am amazed at some of the things I am seeing now. Quality of a digital cable such as USB or HSMI clearly cannot make a difference since the cheapest disposable cables virtually do not drop or change any bits. These cables operate at a macro level. Analog speaker cables are another matter because the timing and intensity of electron flow can be easily influenced. Can an 8 foot speaker cable be worth $17,000/pr? Of course not, that would be stupid. Before your cables are broken in, there would be an $18,000 cable that is just so much better. Nevertheless, a wealthy person with a finely developed ear may justify the wire without giving a thought to the millions of starving children in this country that have no speaker wire whatsoever. ( or old people that only have zip cord, oh God)

So, expensive digital cables, No. Expensive speaker cables and interconnects, yep, no conscience allowed.

But what about these pesky A/C cords where a molded version comes on just about every audio/video component and computer? Does the tainted water theory hold any water? Sort of because you can pour water out of your faucet into the finest crystal goblet and it will still be the same brackish swill that came out of your faucet. No filtration, same swill. Furthermore, it won't come out any faster, volume wise, if you invert a funnel and put a nozzle on it. So, if you decide to plug into an outlet that has 14 gauge aluminum wire strung through the push in connectors on the back of 8 other outlets before your chosen stereo outlet, you are basically going to get swill out of your outlet. An A.C cable is a passive device being neither a filter nor a conditioner. It will not stabilize voltage shifts or drop RF noise. Actually a good cord will transmit those things very accurately.

Yet when an audiofile the likes of Arthur Salvatore say they make a difference, you damn well better believe they do. If the cord cannot improve the nature of your service, then how can a fancy cord be better than taking a 5 foot piece of 12 gauge Romex and putting good connectors on the end? The assumption must be that the cables that come with equipment are so poorly constructed that 50 cents worth of Romex and 10 dollars worth of connectors, to maintain the "quality" of the in wall wiring, is dramatically better. It appears that most listeners with high end equipment have line conditioners that come before the high end power cord and following them are high dollar distribution centers (read that power strips). So you fix the swill as much as possible and then try to keep it pure. That makes some sense but that brings us to another question...

If a manufacturer of high end amplifiers and speakers, let's say Coincidence Speaker Technology for example, providing as they do. some of the best equipment in the world, just what do they give away with the A/C powered units? They don't give away speaker cable with their speakers. Can it be that they do not provide an A/C cable at all? There web site, which is truly excellent by the way, does not mention what their equipment comes with. They do sell a $450 A/C cord but when you read about people using there amplifiers, they usually have some other high end cord. Now, Coincident makes a statement (no pun intended) that some of their items are manufactured to the finest degree possible. "The build quality of the Statement Phono is the finest available. It was designed with no cost restraints and the highest priority placed on sonic performance". I would be very interested to know if they ship their equipment without power cords. I guess I'll find out when I order some. It seems like if they sent their $450 cord with each item that that would be denoted in their literature and it seems that if they shipped without a cord that that would also be denoted. After all, speakers do not ship with wires but the standard when you buy an A/C item is to get a damn cord with it. Now, if Coincidence puts a cheap cord on their equipment, they should post a warning tag on it that it must be replaced or all their no restraint work will be wasted.

I liked the mention by another poster that people re-wire their homes and provide dedicated circuits for their audio gear, many of us have been doing that for 50 years.

Another good idea is to order 10 different high end cords and demand a 90 day return policy before purchase. Then send 9 of them back after comparing them. Really, with USPO flat rate shipping, this would be cheap. Hopefully at least one of them will make a noticeable difference. Make someone else swap the cables blindly or you will just be placeboing yourself. Of course if you have been convinced that a 200 hour break in is necessary, then comparing cables is impractical. If your equipment needs a multi-hour run to re-break in itself every time your drop the power from it, you are kind of SOL as well.

The true fact is that you will never realize the true potential of your equipment. Everything affects everything else. It's entirely likely that when you have found your perfect A/C cord, you'll decide to change your turntable bedding or your cartridge or your speakers and guess what, that cord will no longer test the best. All is lost if you change your amplifiers or house wiring, things directly connected to your spendy A/C cord. Nope, you're stuck with your amplifiers and transports and DAC's forever once you buy that cord!

JAH

JAH I think you've been away too long,and like Rip van Winkle much has changed over the years.Not all for the best.
Snakeoil is still here, but then back in your day lifting speakers off the floor on spikes and anything more costly than lamp cord was suspect.

I've been at this for 40 years, have many friends who have tinkered with this hobby for just as many years and what been great is that we have all benefitted one anothers mistakes and fortuitous discoveries.

Most recently a friend of mine(a gear swapping,never satisfied tortured soul) audiophile has discovered the joys of room tuning devices.
He always suspected snakeoil but now has seen the folly of his old ways thinking.

He could never hear differences in power cords and as such was always disappointed when a new fix proved to be no better than the last.
I kept telling him, the only thing that never changes is his room, and it is imposing it's presence on his components.Or, the room was masking any improvemnts to his sound.

And so it is with most any upgrade,power cords or fuses,if the room and power are not taken seriously, then most upgrade's effects will be compromised, or get tossed under the category of snakeoil.

Back in the old days it was easy to set up a system, plug it in and spin the tunes, and be contented.

Discontent only arrived with exposure to systems and gear that let you hear things in the music that you never heard in your own set up at home.

You had two choices:
1-accept what you have and live with it
2-set about doing something to improve your sound.

Choice 2 is not a choice to be taken mildly.
It can be expensive,can lead to years of regret,angst or it can lead to joy,and can go on for as long as you want it to.

Or you can simply walk away from it all as JAH has done.

But all is not lost when you buy that upgraded power cord.
It will still improve whatever component it's attached to.
I've used my Annacondas on everything from solid state and tube mono blocks, to a nice headphone amp,while overkil, it still made for a major improvemnt over the one that came in the box.

So it's back to the two choices- accept or move on.

But all is not lost when you buy that upgraded power cord. It will still improve whatever component it's attached to. 11-25-13: Lacee

Your assertion is inaccurate. Every aftermarket (upgraded) power cord does not improve the performance of whatever component its attached to. There are those times when the wrong aftermarket power cord can muck things up worse than the original stock cord. I've witnessed this.

Could you please explain in more detail?
Please be a bit more specific.

What power cord?
What gear was it plugged into?
Have you done any room treatment?
Do you use dedicated lines,upgraded connectors?
Do you use any power line conditioning?

I can answer these questions.

Shunyata Annaconda Helix, Python CX
Acoustat tube servo amps, Cary 300SEI,Red Dragon mono blocks,DecWare Zen,Sme 10 power supply, Esoteric Xo3,Manley Steelhead.
ASC and DIY room treatment and some DIY difussion.
4 dedicated lines,20 amp breakers, Furutech R connectors, Furutech GTX D G inlet.
HiFi Supreme fuses in all components and WA chips on fuses.
Hydra 8 power conditioner for front- end gear, except cd player that on it's own separate dedicated line.

In my system,under the conditions outlined above,I can state emphatically that the shunyata power cords performed better than the stock power cords did.

I've done the comparison.
In no case with any of the components that I have tried them in, did the upgraded power cords fail to make an improvement in sound.
In fact even the stock power cord, when snipped of it's molded rubber connectors and cheap copper Furutech connectors added, is an improvement.

So that's how it workd for me, sorry to hear things didin't work for you.

Hard for me to be more specific. There's been too many components and different setups in my house to remember. It has not been often that an aftermarket power cord on a component compromised the sound of the system compared to the stock cord, but there has been 1 or two occasions where I've tried multiple aftermarket cords on a component and went back to the stock cord after a period of time and heard an improvement. This taught me that you can never say never and there are no absolutes with audio gear.

Thanks for answering my question?
One or two times that a power cord didn't improve the sound over the course of so many years and systems is proof enough for me.

So what multiple aftermarket cords did you try?
And on what did they not work?
Pretty simple I think.

I find it curious that since there were only one or two occassions,you should be able to remember what they were.

I am not attacking you, but I am curious.
As I've said, I've never met a component that didn't sound better with a better power cord.
And I can remember all the ones I've used them with.

I do agree with you that there are no absolutes in this hobby, as there are none in life.

Still being the curious type, I am left to wonder if I have owned either of those two pieces of audio gear,and that perhaps I came to a different conclusion.

Surely you should be able to remember the gear in question,
and perhaps others will share their experiences with it and stock power cord vs upgraded ones.

I can remember every mistep I've taken.
I think you would be doing us a big service by informing us of the mismatch so that others don't go down that same path.

I tested this hypothesis, and found that isolation transformers work better, for less money.

For those who think power cords don't make a difference please read my experience. I have 4 power cords in my system: two Harmonix Studio Master 350 on my two mono amps and two Kharma Grand Ref. on my front ends (Audio Aero Capitole Ref SE and de Havilland mercury 2 preamp). The rest of my system comprise Kharma CRM 1.2 speakers, Harmonix Golden Performance GP & Fusion Audio Romance 2 interconnects and Jorma Unity speaker cables.

When I swap the two pcs between the front ends and the amps (i.e the Kharmas now on the power amps and Harmonix on the front ends) keeping all else remaining the same, the sound from my system changes dramatically. It becomes extremely robust, big, powerful, gusty, and almost thrown on my face: too much muscle in the sound to enjoy.

Reversing the order of the pcs back to the original order, music becomes smooth again, lots of emotion and very enjoyable. Even my wife spots the difference within a second.

Lesson learnt: if your system is revealing and consists of high quality components, every single change in the chain be in pcs, tubes, interconnects, speaker cables or individual components will make a noticeable difference to what you hear. If no difference is detected then either the system is not sensitive/revealing enough or the listener's ears need to be checked. Simple as that. Caveat: difference does not necessarily mean better or worse as these are subjectively determined by the listener alone.
cheers

One of the pieces I think was a PS Audio Premier Power Plant.

Lacee, as we age, the memory is the first thing to go.

I tried the Tekline Reference Master, Silver Audio Wattmaster, VH Audio Flavor 4, PS Audio Statement, Lessloss, DCCA Musical Essence, Purist Audio Dominus Ferrox Synergistic Tesla.

As far as other power cords I've used as I've changed components and speakers, the list is longer.

Thank you Foster9,I have a friend who can't seem to hear differences between cables,be they inter-connect or power cords,even when I can hear the difference they make when listening to them in his rig.

He has discovered that his right ear has 20% hearing loss.

What he has just discovered is that using 4 bass traps and 4 wall damping panels has improved his ability to discerne differences better than before he tried them.
In fact he was sure that the room tuning devices would be a waste of money, because of his hearing issues.
He is pleased that his latest investment in audio has given him so much pleasure and a renewed interest in listening again.

It's unfortunate you are among the few who cannot enjoy the benefits that upgraded power cords can bring to the experience.

Lacee when you state I don't hear the benefits of upgraded power cords you have misunderstood my previous posts. I have owned many different aftermarket power cords over the years as I mentioned. I have heard the benefits of these cords. In fact, I don't use any stock power cords in my system because of that. I hear the difference they can make. Where I commented on your previous post was when you said that an upgraded power cord always improved the sound of whatever gear it is connected to. I have found that is true in many cases but not in 100% of cases. There have been a few cases where aftermarket cords did not improve a particular piece and the stock power cord was better. In most every case a stock cord was not better than an aftermarket (as you say "upgraded") cord, but in my experience there have been a few isolated exceptions. Now it is true that I had no way to try every power cord out there to find one what cord would worked best, but among the aftermarket power cords I had in my collection, I did not have one that outperformed the stock cord on the (Power Plant Premier). This is an example of what I was referring to when I said there are no absolutes in this hobby. In fact, as I was typing this post, I just thought of another piece I owned besides the Power Plant Premier where this anomaly was true, the Bryston 7B SST. So these are 2 cases in my experience where the stock cord was not bettered by the aftermarket cords I tried.

My question is this: if Ruby Mountain AC cable by Siltech, say, which runs 6k for 1 meter, were sold in a 1/4 meter size for $2000 (allowing $500 extra expense for terminations) would it make a difference in sound? Could you, in other words, just run less expensive cord from the wall socket to you mini-and-suddenly-affordable Ruby Mountain? Put another way, what length of super high end power cord to you need to get the effects? Does it just so happen that 1 meter does the trick? Why not half a meter for less money? Or, by the same token, would a 6 meter power cord sound even better?

Stewie - the length of the cord would make little difference - within reason

Quality power cables are only a few ohms/km - so difference between 1/2 meter and 6 meters would be negligeable.

What does make a difference is the quality of the connectors

Regards

That suggests that manufacturers could offer "power cords" in increments as small as 2 or 3 inches, so long as the connectors would fit, while still getting the full effect of the cord. On the other hand, I guess it's all for nothing if the wire immediately inside of the amp's or preamp's ac socket isn't that great. But I don't know if that' true.

The internal wiring is generally a reasonable quality and its solid, which does make a difference

I did try braided Rome and it performed very well - but not quite as good as my Furutech cables.

I did find one power cord where the manufacturer stipulated a minimum of 1.5 meters.

But that could just be a sales ploy:-)

I have to agree with most of Foster_9 posts. Aftermarket power cords are a definite upgrade and can be done for free from most manufactures for 30-day in home trials. Try it out and see for yourself. But as Foster_9 indicates results vary from component to component where some, very few in my systems, just don't offer much benefit. But in many cases I've heard huge upgrade in sound quality in many ways. Experiment and always enjoy.

Sophia Electric Baby amp - the thin cord it came with is the best. I tried replacing it with Shunyata Diamondback, Audio Magic Sorcerer, Audio Magic XStream, Audioquest AC-15, Zu Birth and others and obtained worse result - significantly worse for some of the cords (all the cords made good improvements on their own in other parts of the system). I don't even know if this was the original cord, looks totally generic, might have been hand-picked from a loom by the previous owner of the amp?

If most in this hobby have been weaned off 18 guage lamp cord for speaker wires(maybe not)and use something more substantial,while also using some aftermarket interconnects,I would think that an aftermarket power cord would be the next logical step.

Providing ,of course, that you've heard any differences using upgraded wires elsewhere.

Depending on how your system is voiced,too much of any one type of sonic colourations can be a bad thing.
I wouldn't doubt for a moment that thinner guage power cord could sound better than a thicker one.

The real truth is that you could distinguish a difference and prefer one over the other.
It doesn't matter what the power cord looks like or costs, it's how much you like the sound of it that matters.

Well, there is way more to power cords than meets the eye that's for sure. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many companies out there peddling this stuff.

Since my last post I have experienced a lot of "discovery"

But to cut a very long story down to a more digestible post here's the coles notes version.

I started looking at different cable architectures and figured there had to be one that a reasonably competent DIYer like myself could use.

All of the designs that appeared to get great reviews appeared to have an architecture that avoided parallel conductors.

The problem is parallel conductors...
- passing an electrical current through one conductor will induce electrical noise in the adjacent conductors
- inducing noise into the neutral side of an electrical circuit has a negative impact on that circuits performance

So I set out to see what effect simply braiding the conductors would have.

I went to a hardware store and purchased a 12 gauge extension cord and cut a length of about 6 ft.
- I then stripped the outer sleeve from the entire length to expose the three conductors.
- I then braided the three conductors and installed quality silver plated copper IEC and Mains connectors.

To my complete amazement this very inexpensive power cable outperformed my DIY cable that used high quality Furutech bulk power cable, which also had the exact same IEC/Mains connectors.

A fellow poster on this forum has tried this and also found it's performance to be significantly better compared to one of a very popular brand he had in his system.

Next I stripped the outer sleeve and screening from the Furutech and braided it's internal connectors. The very high quality copper in the Furutech cable combined with good connectors and braided cable architecture makes a power cable that provide an extremely high level of performance.

I have compared the braided Furutech to cables costing many times it's price and found its performance to be very comparable.

This is now my standard power cable on every piece of equipment in my system.
- 10 gauge for the amp and power distribution panel
- 13 gauge for the sources.

The braiding also works to deter RFI

So - are power cords snake oil?

Pretty much, any after market cord will perform better than stock cables.

However, sometimes cables like those supplied with the Sophia Electric Baby amp posted by Cbozdog may well have been designed to provide the best performance.

Using cables made from better quality copper or some fancy alloy will provide some benefit, but the architecture is more important

Cables that are designed such that the conductors are not parallel to each other will perform better than others.

I'm not saying braiding is the best architecture out there - it is the easiest for a DIYer like myself to implement and provides a significant improvement over standard bulk cable alternatives.

If you are not into DIY, then look at the architecture of the cable before you purchase third party products - there are some very good ones out there.

For the DIYers out there - if you want a more affordable cable to Furutech then try DH Labs Power Plus and Encore.
- For about 1/3rd the cost of Furutech you get very close to it's performance ability.

I use Sonar Quest Silver plated copper IEC/Mains connectors from Ebay
- if you want a more affordable alternative try the Vanguard gold plated copper connectors from Ebay

Improvements include faster dynamics, larger image more micro details and deeper bass.

Hope you find it useful

Pierre S. Is a friend of mine but his power cables look as if they would be dangerous. If any of you are electruded please let us know.

I am apparantly joining the party late. So far entire discussion revolves about 4-5 feet of the cable from wall recepracle to the unit it powers. Nobody has considers what is behind AC wall receptacle and what kind of power is coming to that receptacle through the wires. Even if you pull completely new 20A line from breaker box to your HiFi (which is probably most efficient thing you can do) there is no guarantee what kind of power is coming through that receptacle. We are trying to fix the consequence of imperfect electrical grid by spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on 5 feet of cable. How can 5 feet rectify hundreds of feet of imperfection and cost cutting processes. I am all for making improvements, but within reason. Here there is simply lack of valid reasoning.

Why power cords, wall outlets, wall outlet covers, power cord plugs, contact enhancers on power cord plug contacts make a difference to the sound is one of many audio hobby mysteries that alter and illuminate our times. Obviously, having more stable and cleaner power delivered from the factory would help as would having perfect weather 24/7. And having all the wires in the correct direction. Unfortunately, for most of us, you get what you get. 

Nobody has considers what is behind AC wall receptacle and what kind of power is coming to that receptacle through the wires. Even if you pull completely new 20A line from breaker box to your HiFi (which is probably most efficient thing you can do) there is no guarantee what kind of power is coming through that receptacle. We are trying to fix the consequence of imperfect electrical grid by spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on 5 feet of cable. How can 5 feet rectify hundreds of feet of imperfection and cost cutting processes. I am all for making improvements, but within reason. Here there is simply lack of valid reasoning.

Romex has extremely good performance, so actually the real problem is at the outlet and beyond. Romex is not legal for power cords as it is too stiff. But in the wall it works great.

IOW the power cord doesn't 'rectify hundreds of feet of imperfection' because it doesn't have to. It is important for a power cord to be competent though. FWIW, that has little to do with price. The effects of a power cord are often measurable. I've seen them rob an amplifier of about 30% of its output power due to voltage drop across the cord!