@zgas-music hey thanks for chiming in.
We do not have any wireless at all in the house. This is on purpose as we prefer a wired household. But interestingly, the most helpful solution came from Peter Lie at Lumin . He suggested that I change the DNS on the modem to 8.8.8.8. Weirdly that had a huge effect, and the problem is mostly resolved. However, as a result of investigating the problem, I am now thinking about getting a network switch with the clock is my current one doesn’t have a clock. And also rolling fibre out all the way to the music control center. :-)
Best, Nadine
|
Hi Nadine-
Interesting post and cool to see all the folks weighing to help. Roon changed my music listening life for the reasons you mention and more. A great product when it’s working, which, fortunately, is most of the time. When I’ve needed support, my experience with their crowd sourced support model is less than stellar.
I’m late to the party, but are you doing any wireless at all? Occurs to me this might be a good diagnostic test of your hardwired network. I run Roon wirelessly on an Eero mesh network. If you could set up a temporary wireless connection to your rig you could take your internal wiring out of the loop.
The diagnostics from Roon on your server sounds like you may have a connection problem from your ISP? Speed test might not uncover that? If you still have the problem on wireless, maybe something wrong with the fiber modem?
|
@carlsbad2 Thanks for telling me a bit of your audiophile equipment history. I can really see myself going to the MU1 in the future. But focused right now on making my NUC/ROCK as stable as possible. It has a very cheap LPS which I plan to upgrade (from AfterDark) and also upgrade my network switch.
Honestly adding my initial network switch was one of the biggest improvements I have made.
Enjoy the music ! Nadine
|
I also use AES from my MU1 to my Lampi. i agree, the MU1 is designed to take advantage of the AES/EBU.
But you don't have to buy an MU1 to get stable roon. Before it I had a Innuos Zenith MK3 and a Chord DAVE with M-scaler. I ran my Roon Core on a NUC. For a while I ran it on windows. Had occasional lock up and had to reboot. Finally I installed ROCK and never had a problem. I still have it and will list it for sale, watch the for sale listings.
So when I went to the MU1 I retired the Innuos, the M-scaler (MU1 has upscaling built in) and the NUC with Roon core. Really cleaned up my rack.
But ROCK on a dedicated machine will get you stable.
Jerry
|
Hello @atanarjuat99
it is good to do one thing at a time!
I use AES from the mu1 to my Tambaqui. I believe the magic of the Grimm happens with AES not USB. I have tried both and AES clearly better. I use KS Realization cables elsewhere, so I have one to power the Grimm (and AES). Upgrading from an Elation to the Realization AES was easily heard to me. I do not think the power cable is as important for the Grimm as the AES cable. While I am probably not saying this right, the Grimm MU1 has some kind of hybrid power supply and does not need a LPS upgrade.
|
Looking forward to your findings.
|
@fastfreight I see the path pointing me to the Grimm MU1 :) I have a NOS DAC so that might be a good combination. However, strategically I feel I should wait - after having persuaded my non-audio loving partner that our music will be so much better with the Sopra 2 speakers. But two questions: are you using the stock power cable with the switching power supply on the MU1? And did you add a LPS? Oh, and do you use the AES output?
@audioman58 I would go to the Innuos. I love their philosophy but I am committed to Roon for music discovery and the feeling of being in a record store online. If Innuos were a Roon core, it would be a no-brainer.
@adsell I am going to try that tonight. Honestly 96/24 is already such an improvement over Redbook!
|
@mapman
Why not judt buy a decent fedicated streamer ?
I like this: combination between federated and dedicated. 😎
|
Often, opting for the simplest approach yields the best results: Lowering your sample rate from 192 can significantly help, and you're likely not to discern any difference. I use 24/96, and it works wonderfully for me. In truth, by persisting with the higher rate, you're complicating things due to the unreliability of consumer fiber connections and ethernet problems. After participating in extensive testing, including double-blind trials comparing High-Resolution audio to Redbook, I found my accuracy was only about 50%, equivalent to making a guess. Once I reduced my bitrate, all issues with audio artifacts vanished.
|
Why not judt buy a decent fedicated streamer ?
They sound far better innuos has very nicr and good entry level
No roon needef innuos sounds better and very well
Organized, also on your router get rid of the horrible wall wart
And buy a quality lps from linear tube audio
On Audiogon $700 much better sound
And a decent ethrrnet switch like tje lhy sw8
Best in class under $600 , Everything counts.
|
Hi Nadine, I also only stream so I can understand your frustrations. It can be so good and then so frustrating when it glitches. And everyone runs to the ‘network issue’ excuse, which might in fact be very true. So we(I) chase down every thing we can control. My speed tests were also always good, yet Roon tests showed drops and losses that no one could explain.
I formerly had a setup similar to yours, going from Mac mini to Nucleus as server, with LPS and I also had the same Silent Angel switch! Sound kept improving as I did these upgrades. And I am Not knocking your equipment.
But the Grimm MU1 is such an upgrade on several levels. It runs Roon core, so right away you eliminate your SGC and its power supply, power cable and connecting Ethernet cable. It is rock solid as server. But it is its streamer side that gets all the accolades; so again you eliminate the Lumin and get (IMHO) better sound.
Also watch for the 100mb vs 1g thing. I had a Network Acoustics Eno Ethernet filter that was only rated at 100mb and it was not compatible with my other stuff. Replaced with the Muon Pro filter at 1g speed rating and things worked out better. I also upgraded my service to 1G (available here with Verizon Fios). I may not have needed this but again, to me it is worth it to do everything I can!
Good luck with all of this. Keep the faith, quality streaming can sound amazing, and you seem to be doing all the right things! Get back to us when you get it sorted out and I can bug you about a switch upgrade! :)
Ken
|
@erik_squires OP is a total ignoramus 😂. I meant the internet speed.
|
OP:
Ping times are measured in millseconds, not GBPS.
|
@audphile1 Yes, I thought I couldn't make any more mistakes in audio but here I am. Honestly it was so helpful to get the responses about the network because these changes are going to makes it more reliable - a legit problem.
|
Hey happens to the best of us! Glad to hear you resolved it!
Roon UI is worlds beyond the Lumin app. I had a U1 Mini and hated the app. Also used Roon.
Good luck implementing the tweaks and hope you get to a smooth streaming experience.
|
@audphile1 Yes, I did that and they were crackly. Truthfully everything sounds better in the Lumin app but I prefer Roon. However, I did reseed the WBT connector on my SPDIF BNC to coaxial and that fixed the problem. So I am embarrassed to say that the whole problem might have been the cable.
However, in the process of discovering that I found out that my Roon connection is very tenuous. So am going to implement all suggestions given here especially switching out the RJ-45 jacks and using the fiber to copper converter before the modem.
Thanks again to all for such great help.
|
Can you use lumin app to test 24/192 files for few days and see if that gets chewed up as well? If that’s all smooth then you SGC Roon Core is hosed.
|
@audphile1 I am also starting to think that Roon is fine but I need a different Roon core/server. When I contacted SGC, he said that the problem is my router/modem. However the network is consistently fast when I test it through speed test.
I have ordered the fiber to RJ-45 converters and will invest in shielded RJ-45 jacks but might have to face the music and pony up for a Roon server like the Grimm MU1. Rats!
|
Nadine I really doubt Roon itself has anything to do with it. What did the guys from SGC have to say about the issues you’ve been running into with their Roon core?
|
@mapman Yes we do have streaming issues from time to time. Very irritating :) And our geographical location may be the culprit. We live in a small town up the coast of British Columbia about 80 km from Vancouver. Though we do have fiber optic to the house, the one other audiophile in town gave up on Roon - which may be a sign.
@erik_squires I have done the ping test all over the house including from the switch with the Roon server. Always close to 1 gbps.
@jbuhl I phoned the provider a couple of times. Apparently we have 1.5 gbps consistently into the house....
@audphile1 I just checked the modem. The fiber comes into it and goes out via copper ethernet. I ordered from Amazon USA a fiber to ethernet converter 5 minutes ago but it is going to take 10 days to arrive.
@unsound No VPN except occasionally when I connect to my work server. But will make sure it is unconnected when streaming.
@fastfreight I know what you are saying... just looked at a Grimm MU1 on USAM... expensive in CDN dollars especially as I just talked my partner into Focal Sopra 2s (arriving next week) 😹. But that might be the solution.
In the meantime, I have the fiber to copper converter coming and might even try and run fiber right to the streaming/tv area.
One more question: when I went to the modem to see if it is converting the fiber to ethernet, I noticed that the core fiber coming in is just hanging there bare. No insulation. Is that normal?
Thanks again to all, Nadine
|
Also wondering if you do any video streaming on same local network and if any performance or connection issues there?
|
Just a guess here, but: are you using a VPN? If so, try turning it off when streaming. I've found VPN's to sometimes compromise signal integrity.
|
OP:
Your basic step right now is to diagnose whether you have an internal issue or external. External should be easy to see via any PC hooked up to Ethernet. Use Ping and whatever your provider has for speed testing.
If that works well, then compare to measurements at the Roon server location.
As someone else has pointed out, it IS also possible you are having Internet routing issues. that's more complicated, but first find out if your problem is internal vs. external.
|
Hmmm geographic location could matter in regards to how well connections to remote internet services in Roon perform. Would be useful if other Roon users in same part of Canada could offer input. Roon forum is probably best to get info like that.
Meanwhile if it were me I would be running native Qobuz and Tidal apps to see how those perform versus Roon to help isolate any specific bottlenecks with specific services also baked into Roon.
|
Nadine is the fiber to copper Ethernet conversion done by the modem or is the modem already seeing copper only? If the fiber to copper conversion is done by modem and the modem accepts copper Ethernet, you can try an outboard fiber to copper converter before the modem. Eliminate that as a possible culprit.
|
Thanks to all of you for very helpful responses.
@erik_squires Yes the Roon community forum might be better but, having posted there about this issue, I can tell you that AG is more helpful. And thanks for the advice re: DNS. We do occasionally have Netflix dropouts so I am not eliminatingthe network problem. I also suspect I need to do more testing in that locations.
@fastfreight did not know I could replace the wall plate couplers. I am going to order them pronto. We did run a couple of dedicated ethernet lines to the audio area but clearly still room for improvement.
@mapman @audphile1 We live in Canada so have Telus as a provider. They ran fiber optic cable right to the box on the side of house. And, as we are a wired only household, we just have a modem connected to the fiber box. I did log into the modem to change the DNS.
Now off to do more testing!
|
When I first read OP post I suspected router. Maybe you can open a ticket with service provider and have them run a check on modem/router to see if its kicking errors at their end. Other good suggestions here about connections as well. If possible Maybe run a direct wire from router to the SGC i5 as a test.
|
|
Of course, the problem could be in your home. Try pinging cnn dot com, and doing speed tests to another PC and compare that to what your provider is billing you for.
|
Nadine…I suspect your router. Have you talked to your ISP to have the router replaced?
The other solution I can propose is mesh network. The gateway unit will broadcast to roon core either via Ethernet cable from gateway unit or Ethernet cable from a node unit depending on the location of roon core and a node unit that is close to your system can feed Lumin via Ethernet cable.
I’ve been using EERO for years with Roon and no issues whatsoever.
|
Who is your internet service provider and what data plan?
I use Verizon for internet with standard Verizon router and run Roon full throttle with DSP strictly over strong WiFi connections. This works great even with highest res files from Qobuz. So running Roon well should not be as hard and complicated as audiophiles tend to like to make things.
Start simple with WiFi, mesh or repeaters perhaps if needed (I use 1 repeater in a 3000 sq foot + home) and verify internet service is up to snuff for Roon. Run Roon on any computer that has enough memory and cpu and it should be fine. On commercial PCS avoid running internet browsers and other services unless needed in that these are often resource hogs and could starve Roon from cpu or memory resources needed. If you run Roon core on a PC or similar device use the system monitor to make sure cpu and memory on the device are not maxing out at 100%. If so either shut down other unneeded services and apps or move to a beefier device with more cpu and memory. I observe Roon to be more cpu than memory intensive. A device dedicated to Roon core is best but not required.
Also recent Roon releases include important performance and reliability enhancements so make sure you are running the latest and greatest on all Roon nodes. For Roon Arc access via external internet, Make sure TCP forwarding is enabled on the router for the port used by Roon Arc
|
Yes. And beware of wall plates, which use very cheap couplers.
I run my cables through the wall at both ends, and use JCAT Ethernet couplers where required.
|
OP:
Also be aware that Ethernet cables do get misinstalled, and the ports on the routers do go bad individually sometimes. Don't assume it must be a good port or switch. If you have a port going to a PC which is known good you might want to swap it with the one going to your Roon as a test.
|
Yes +1 Erik. Run speed test many times in same location.
that being said I had issues with an Aries G2 dropping roon and then being a b**** to restart. Many Roon support queries always ended in ‘a network issue’. I replaced the Aries with a Grimm MU1 and it has never dropped Roon.
I am not saying that one streamer is bad, but perhaps some streamers just don’t like some networks :)
|
Well, Roon community forums are probably better places for such a specific question, but here goes.
DNS settings only help with initial stream starting. Once a stream has started there should be no DNS requests again, unless the connection fails.
This sounds like a pretty basic internal network issue, which can happen from a lot of things. You can put a PC/laptop at the same Ethernet location as your playback device and then run ping and download speed tests.
The problem can be internal or it could be from your provider. Usually if it's a provider issue you'll also have problems streaming Netflix, and other such services all around the home.
|
