Having been a music lover and audio enthusiast for more decades than I care to admit to I’ve had the privilege of owning some tremendous components over those years and thought I had attained a level of musical enjoyment that would be difficult to improve upon without spending more money than I could afford. Then along came The Gate to turn my audio conceptions on end.
While I was quite skeptical of all of the positive proclamations regarding the Perfect Path mats, cards and contact enhancer ( how could they possibly bring about such sonic improvements?) I took the plunge and purchased a nano bundle to see what the hubbub was all about. Much to my surprise they not only brought about improvements to my systems’ ability to recreate a more musical sound but did so in spades.
When Tim of Perfect Path Technologies asked if I wanted to try his new product, The Gate, I jumped at the chance thinking it would be a nice addition to what the other products provided. I wasn’t prepared for the quantum leap The Gate brought to my music listening pleasure. As much as the other products brought about a much lower noise floor, greater detail and delicacy, improved dynamics, richer tone and more realism The Gate does so in magnitudes difficult to describe. The best way I can describe its affect is unreal purity leading the most realistic musical sound I’ve had the pleasure of experiencing.....outside of a live performance obviously. It has me listening to all of my CD’s as if for the first time again.
I have no idea how The Gate actually works or what it does I just know it’s the most dramatic tweak to my system I’ve ever experienced and I wouldn’t think of being without it. As to how it’s implemented, it’s installed in the electrical panel with one lead connected to the common buss and the other to a breaker ( preferably 220). Hope I got the terminology correct.....I’m far from being an electrician!
At $4,999.00 it’s not cheap but worth every penny to me as I’ve spent more on components with less sonic improvement.
Lastly, I realize some will scoff at something they can’t understand and I get not understanding it as I don’t, but I would hope people could keep their skepticism healthy and civil. I am not here to promote or sell, nor do I have any affiliation with PPT. I am only sharing something that I’ve found to be transforming in my system. Sorry for the lengthy introduction.
The 3 people who spent $5,000 with barely any information claim to have "huge" improvements in their system one of them being you. So let me get this right, you have untold amount of expensive fuses, connector treatments, interconnects, wires, etc. ..... but the currently going for about $1000-1500 (tops) on the used market, approximately 20 year old speakers with 20 year old drivers are -not- a limiting factor in your system? Changing the binding posts and jumpers is not going to fix inherent limits in the driver technology of the time. Things have changed a lot since then and a simple fuse change is not going to change limitations in the drivers no matter how much you convince yourself. No matter what price they were built at, the present value is $1,000 - 1,500. If they were truly a cult item, the price would be higher. They are built to a price point, and with large cabinets and a lot of drivers, compromises had to be made. Magic beans. I saw the pictures of your room. A fuse would not be my first upgrade.
You have attacked people online for all matter of things, but mainly for disagreeing with you. You can try to label how you wish, but that is the gist. I can’t even read many of your posts because the threads have been shut down for excessive shilling. What am I supposed to think about that?
You claim the "gate" isn’t a mere accessory. Can you tell me what it is? The MFR claims passive PFC functionality. That implies capacitors across the line. There is also the claim of 3 stages of surge protection, but it cannot be damaged by lightning/etc. above. This unit connects across the AC lines. If you are clamping like this, to do an effective job, you must absorb energy, possible lots of it. The claim of "no damage" is questionable in that case. Maybe it is no damage for a certain level of surge, but there are no specifications on what that is. Has that surge capability been tested? It only connects neutral to 1 phase. What about the other phase?
I'm on record as being on the cynical side of the fence as it relates to PPT but in this case the "hype" is justified ... but on the other hand as my system contains loads of other voodoo tweaks you may choose to just ignore my perspective :-)
Beautiful system by the way. I would consider adding some diffusion as opposed to only absorption in your room, but I assume you have had someone professionally help with the acoustics? Your speakers are far enough apart and the Magicos wide enough in dispersion that some diffusion between them on the front wall may help a bit.
That aside, you really seemed to be clutching for a difference in your review and perhaps were not sure if the difference was positive or negative? FYI, the neutral is not really "floating". It is the center-tap of mains transformer that two hots that go to your Torus are connected to, but now 1/2 that mains transformer (outside your house somwhere) forms a loop with your "GATE", but the other half does not. As the GATE will still be a capacitive load for the split phase feed to your house it will modify power factor, but do it only through 1/2 the mains transformer split-phase ... through the aforementioned loop.
I am not sure you can visualize what I described above, but hopefully you get a sense that maybe something is wrong. If you believe a product like the GATE can help, then you should have something that connects to the two hots coming to your TORUS, and if you are concerned about the surge suppression capabilities, then also a connection to Neutral/Ground.
I’m on record as being on the cynical side of the fence as it relates to PPT but in this case the "hype" is justified ... but on the other hand as my system contains loads of other voodoo tweaks you may choose to just ignore my perspective :-)
I'm curious ... after you installed The Gate and gave it a chance to permeate the AC circuit, what were your impressions as far as the changes in your bass and in the realism of percussion instruments?
@atdavid. There is diffusion all over the front wall. The narrow ASC strips are diffusive plus all the SR gizmos have diffusive effects
as to the electrical setup kind of moot as the system is now in boxes in the UK awaiting installation as part of a 240v setup. Will report on what that sounds like in due course
@oregonpapa my impressions on the gate are covered in my numerous comments to this effect. From recall (now four months since the system was last live) it added more naturalness to the bass but diminished it. Much like other system clean ups that take out the mid lower bass bloom that many feel is impactful bass. But you hear lower frequencies that were previously masked. My system is not a bass head setup and is more about natural sounds on acoustic music.
I find @oregonpapa to be one of the kindest and most professional posters on Agon. He is well respected here and has shown more patience than most when confronted with the types of negative posts we see here based on zero actual experience with the products being trashed. He is one of Agon’s good guys and aims to help others here achieve great sound.
We have a new poster trying to redefine a man when he has no idea what he is talking about. Sort of the same thing being done to gear and manufactures he has no actual history with. It would be nice if @atdavid would share his obvious knowledge in a positive and productive manner so we all could benefit. As of now I cringe when I see that username by a post.
Thank you for the kind words. So appreciated, especially considering the events over the past week. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- folkfreak ...
"Much like other system cleanups that take out the mid-lower bass bloom that many feel is impactful bass. But you hear lower frequencies that were previously masked. My system is not a bass head setup and is more about natural sounds on acoustic music."
Perfectly stated, and parallels my experience exactly. I’m finding that the natural sound of bass notes are much improved. Stand-up bass is very tuneful, much like one would experience in a live jazz performance. Also, bass drums have that natural tone too. On percussion instruments of all types, ie., bongos, congas, piano, vibes ... they all have taken on a realism that still has me shaking my head. And by the way, the PPT "Stop Its" go even further in that regard, especially in coordination with The Gate. When you get to the new place, you should try them out.
You will note that your "kindest and most professional posters" who I have seen exhibit quite different behaviours (this is not the only place he posts), came after me first.
I admittedly made one small snarky comment which I took down. It wasn’t very professional and I can admit that.The rest of what I wrote are some of the few, but not the only posts that take a more critical view of some of the claims made for the product and I have addressed (as others have) such claims as it is a whole home surge protector, but only connects to 1 hot and neutral, and the wires are long both which limits effectiveness for protecting the whole house, that the claim was made that lightning will not damage it, but it connects across the AC lines and mentions clamping voltage which means dissipated energy, and that energy has to go somewhere if the unit is to protect your equipment, that the power factor correction is via only 1 hot-neutral connection which means effectively the circuit for PFC extends back to the mains transformer.
I do not claim the product will not offer some level of protection, but most people on this forum are not able to make a critical analysis of the significant claimed feature set versus the reality of the communicated installation.
grannyring4,919 posts11-05-2019 1:45pm I find @oregonpapa to be one of the kindest and most professional posters on Agon. He is well respected here and has shown more patience than most when confronted with the types of negative posts we see here based on zero actual experience with the products being trashed. He is one of Agon’s good guys and aims to help others here achieve great sound.
Hang around here long enough and there's a good chance that you will learn the difference between "attacking" and "reacting."
"I do not claim the product will not offer some level of protection, but most people on this forum are not able to make a critical analysis of the significant claimed feature set versus the reality of the communicated installation."
Perhaps what you say is true, but you can be assured of a few things ... Most who post here are very experienced in the hobby. We/they know how to achieve great sound. In addition, we know good music and music is what interest us the most.
Engineering psychobabble is truly boring to most who post here. There are a few you can appeal to, no doubt. The rest? .. well their eyes just glaze over and they move on.
Personally, I could care less HOW these things work or HOW they are made. I only care about how they perform. I hire folks like you to figure this stuff out for me. Folks like our recently passed friend Tim Mrock for example.
Just curious ... do you listen to music?
Frank
PS: I am not "attacking" you here ... just carrying on a conversation.
Given I have music on all the time at work, and usually relax with an hour+ on average every night, yes I think you could say I do. I am listening to it right now ...
As of now I cringe when I see that username by a post.
... and some relish it: Well reasoned, objective … maybe a tad argumentative, but given the lunacy that pervades this space, totally understandable.
Frank is a good guy, but the reportedimprovements are the same I heard in the studio day after day and still hear without making any changes at all! Mumbo-jumbo like "permeate the AC circuit" make my eyes roll.
@atdavid No matter how oregonpapa wants to frame it, he’s attacked you. That is clear. There are just many people on this thread that like the taste of mud.
MOVs will always wear down, and they may not provide any surge protection when it’s needed. The Gate provides zero indication of what it’s clamping or let through voltages are.
Sustained overvoltages are not only the thing of 3rd world countries. All it takes is a damaged power pole or lost or intermittent neutral wiring to result in a sudden connection well in excess of 208V.
Hang around here long enough and there's a good chance that you will learn the difference between "attacking" and "reacting."
Said the guy with 108 posts. Who has been here like, well ha, what a joke, dude just got here. During which he has done nothing but stir the pot. Pathetic.
Okay, let me interject something here. Being in the sales business most of my life, it behooved me to study personality types. Personalities can be broken down into four distinct types, each with their biggest fear. Of course, there are mixed combinations, but each always has a strong bias that comes to the surface.
My brother is a retired policeman. He was a good cop who enjoyed going to work each day to serve the public. He’s a doubter, suspicious and takes a long look at everything. He’s very much into control. His personality’s biggest fear? Being taken advantage of. The worst thing a salesman can do is to glad-hand this type. If you do, his immediate thought is ... "what is this guy trying to get out of me?" This person has to trust you before he likes you, unlike the other personality types who have to like you before they trust you. The best thing the salesperson can do with this type is to just let him lead the way.
My "salesman’s" personality is outgoing, humorous, demonstrative and friendly. I used to smile so much my cheeks hurt. I was one of the top salespersons in my company and in the entire area for many years. My personality’s biggest fear? Fear of social disapproval. That’s why we strive to please people. It is also why we grow a thick skin. We eat rejection for breakfast, lunch and come back for more at dinner time. It is also why a good salesman doesn’t take "no" for an answer. We look at a "no" to mean ... "you haven’t told me enough yet." When you buy from us, you are saying ... "You know, in my book, you are alright." Needless to say, most people fail at sales because they just cannot take the rejection.
Engineer’s fall into a different category. They are precise, they are thinkers, they are extremely analytical ... and they very seldom make mistakes. Why? because they measure fifty times to cut once.Their personality’s biggest fear? Fear of criticism. They can’t handle it ... in fact, I’ve met engineers who can’t even handle a suggestion, let alone criticism. During a sales presentation to this personality type, when the closing sequence ends, and the salesman asks for the order, the expected answer ALWAYS is ... "I have to think it over," or "I have to sleep on it." He’s telling the truth. He will NOT make snap decisions. The biggest mistake a salesman can make with this person is to pull out the hammer and try to beat him over the head with it. Just leave the contract with him and say ..."Here, read this over at your convenience tonight, and I’ll call you tomorrow for your decision." I swear, you can just see and feel the guy’s relief. When he’s called back the next day and the salesman asks if he’s made a decision, the usual answer is ... "Yes, I read the entire thing. I like your proposal and I have everything signed for you. Come on over and pick it up." No joke.,
So, this brings us up to the present time in this thread. I try a product that I really like, so I want to share the information with others. When they try, use and like the product, it makes me happy. :-)
Then, along comes the engineer type, who hasn’t tested the product, hasn’t seen it in person, hasn’t felt it or smelled it, and in his logical mind, it has to be "snake oil," a "scam," or just "pure bunk." Then, me with the happy face, gets called a "shill," or a "con." Well, there’s that loss of that social approval thing hitting me right in the face. So, having the sales background burned into my subconscious mind, I try to defend my position. With that defense, the engineer feels that I’m criticizing his position ... and ’round and ’round we go.
Therefore, my message to "atdavid" about learning the difference between attacking and reacting. It is nothing more than a clash between personalities. No more, and no less.
That until you attacked me, I never questioned anything on the audio side, I merely pointed out that their was a disconnect between the claims for the product, how products that make such claims work, and the details on the product.
In fact, I even disagreed with a safety concern that was raised given how it is installed.
Hate to break it to you Frank, but I spent many years in business to business sales .... did quite well actually, it was how I was able to finance my own company and I still spend a good amount of time selling.
Well said @oregonpapa. Spot on analysis of what is happening. Now the question is how the adults will respond to the truth. I am hoping for better than I just read.
I put a lot of effort in that last post. It really is a synopsis of what I learned over time about personality types ... and that knowledge gave me a real edge over the competition. They used to tell me that I was "lucky," or that they wished they were as "lucky" as I was. What they didn't understand was that I had discovered a major key ... and that was to outwork them and out-learn them.
Hate to break it to you Frank, but I spent many years in business to business sales .... did quite well actually, it was how I was able to finance my own company and I still spend a good amount of time selling.
Just out of curiosity, the product you were selling ... was it a technical product, and the businesses you were selling to ... were they of a technical nature?
Not attacking or ridiculing you ... I'm genuinely interested.
Frank posted very recently that Tim has passed away. This seems to have been overlooked by everyone? I'm shocked and saddened to hear that Tim has died. My condolences to Krissy.
<3 If a planted a flower for every time I miss him, I could walk forever in our garden. The nights are so hard. He filled this house with love, life and music....sweet, sweet music. He is so missed by his family and friends.
I've followed this thread since it started. I don't remember seeing Tim's passing mentioned in it before Frank's comment today? In fact it had gone very quiet recently but just got re-invigorated within the last couple of days. I was unaware of Franks' thread on Tim's passing until the link posted above. So for me this was very sad and shocking news.
There is a reference to it on this page by myself maybe 12 posts up or thereabouts. Tbh I have not kept track but it had been mentioned previously I am fairly sure. But regardless yes it is sad and unfair at such a stage in his life.
I work in product innovation and marketing with a nice background in sales and sales management. I have close relationships with engineers and R&D scientists and Frank’s comments are spot on in most....not all cases. Certainly in the vast majority of cases. Well said Frank.
Personalities can be broken down into four distinct types, each with their biggest fear
"Frank, that's a load of bollocks. Talk about stereotyping. Sheesh!
How about two types: Gullible and Not?"
Okay, now there's a blanket statement if I've ever seen one.
Ieales ... Please understand that I am not attacking you here. This is just a question. What information do you possess that refutes what I said about personality types? I've made a real study of this subject over the years, so I would certainly be open to any additional information you may have.
Your interesting observations are typification of 4 basic attitudes toward a new situation or a possible set of events:
The individual inquisitive sceptic attitude toward a new unknown possibility, The more socialistic open enthusiastic mind, The more impersonal and straight expert restricted attitude, coming from past learnings,
And finally the rebel and disruptive attitude in which we must distinguish the good faith rebel from the bad faith disruptive spirit...
All this is in us to some extent...
I apologize for the simplification of these very informative observations... Thanks...
In the first paragraph, I was careful to say this:
"Of course, there are mixed combinations, but each always has a strong bias that comes to the surface."
For example, the very best salespeople have a very high propensity to be, as I described, " ... personality is outgoing, humorous, demonstrative and friendly." However, behind that strength is a high degree of what I described my brother to be ... " He’s very much into control." This gives the salesperson a persuasive personality, with the ability to be a very good closer.
I may not agree with everything you say mahgister, but I like what you bring to the table!!
mahgister738 posts11-06-2019 2:12pmYour interesting observations are typification of 4 basic attitudes toward a new situation or a possible set of events:
The individual inquisitive sceptic attitude toward a new unknown possibility, The more socialistic open enthusiastic mind, The more impersonal and straight expert restricted attitude, coming from past learnings,
And finally the rebel and disruptive attitude in which we must
distinguish the good faith rebel from the bad faith disruptive spirit...
All this is in us to some extent...
I apologize for the simplification of these very informative observations... Thanks...
Funny that this was brought up. I was just talking via phone with another A'goner discussing the PPT products when The Gate came up. He just needs The Gate to complete his PPT tweaks. All I can say is ... The Gate is still the best thing I've ever added to my system. But then, you guys already knew that, right?? :-)
Just a mild point about personality typing. Look up Myers Briggs. It is a well accepted typology that evaluates 4 dimensions on a continuum suggesting a characteristic based on the strength of placement on each.
It has been in use in both business and academia for many years. I have used it in both with success.
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