jay23, That would depend on how you install it and what other parts are inside the Gate. If you install it in your electrical panel, then the electrical panel should contain any "events". Fortunately the instructions communicated in this thread indicate to connect one end to a breaker, so if a MOV fails short, which they pretty much always do before going "poof", then the breaker will trip. The suggestion to connect it to a "220" breaker is a bit suspect mainly as it is not really a "220" breaker, it is a dual-phase breaker with a connecting rod between the handles for the two poles. Electrically this would not be any different from a single pole breaker, but double phase breakers are usually higher current. That would provide a lower resistance path, but those really long lead wires shown in the installations would negate the that benefit in the case of a surge event due to the increased resistance and increased inductance. Someone had a comment about whether it would take a 6KV/3KA hit ... $0.10 MOVs will take repeated 6KV/3KA hits. It is not a difficult task. However, unlike the Furman that was noted to take 1000s (?) of 6KV/3KA hits, the Furman is a 2 port device, i.e. input port and output port. The Furman can take 1000s of 6KV/3KA hits because it has an inductor before the secondary surge element that considerably softens the surge event that reaches that element ... and your equipment that follows. That is a series connected surge suppressor ... i.e. the Furman is in series between the line and your equipment. This would be considered a parallel surge protection. You don't want any inductance between the input wires and the surge element as that would prevent effective clamping. Of course, MOVs, even pretty big ones are cheap, so you can clamp quite a bit of energy for not a lot of money. What is really unusual, and not in a good way, is that it connects to only neutral and one of the hots, not both the hots. That means it is going to provide surge protection to one of the phases, and not the other or at least very limited and only through the long connection back to the mains transformer. As well, it claims to provide PFC functionality, and again, that is only to one of the two phases. It could leave the other phase less balanced.
jay23184 posts11-04-2019 6:30pm@atdavid
Thank You for posting that!
We have made it a priority to keep your equipment safe with our products, and we accomplish this by:
-clamping voltage (the lower the better) The
mention of a clamping voltage means The Gate most likely uses cheap
MOVs. Not only is it a potential liability for your insurance, it is
also a potential safety & fire hazard!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=zmcD635NNPU
https://youtube.com/watch?v=JujCqjLSQF8
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Jay, I expect no electrician would, and certainly no electrician should sign and notarize such a letter as they would not be qualified to comment on the safety of such a "black box". Their expertise is the electrical code, which is not the same as having knowledge of applicable product safety standards. UL, and others, can do field inspection, typically at the MFR, for small run productions, based on acceptable documentation from the MFR and an inspection of the assembly of the product (not just exterior, but how made) to ensure compliance to typical standards of most manufactured electrical products. jay23183 posts11-03-2019 7:01pmI
would warn all potential buyers that they should use a bonded, insured,
and licensed electrician to install The Gate. Additionally, require a
signed and notarized letter from the electrician that they find The Gate
to be safe in their professional opinion. Good luck finding such an
electrician! 😂 |
And you are like many others in these forums that attack the person and not the substance of their posts. Don’t kid yourself that you are popular with everyone .... p.s. I took down one of my posts as it was a bit catty. thecarpathian691 posts11-04-2019 7:22pmatdavid, you sound suspiciously like a certain member who recently vanished from the forum taking all his holier than thou, know it all statements with him.
Robert something I believe. Quite a coincidence he disappears and you show up out of nowhere. I trust you shall be just as popular as he was.... |
I see in the claims for this product, that it says the Gate can serve as a Surge Protector, yet in this thread it says it cannot be damaged from lightning/surge events. Could it be explained how it can be a surge protector, but could not be damaged during surge events? The Gate can serve as a: |
geoff,
Is there another member on here that was making you look silly? Perhaps you can share his contact information. Sounds like my type of person ...
You know what is weird, it is always the same 4 or 5 people that attack me. Not the content of my posts, but me.
You know how bad it is ... one person here even contacted me privately and warned me about the pile-on. Strange huh?
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What is creepy is all the people attacking me personally to the point I am getting messages from others warning about the pile-on. I have never been warned about a "pile-on" on any forum of any topic ... ever.
What is creepy is people not addressing the substance of my posts, but again attacking me. If you feel the need to attack me, but not address the topic of my posts, I think you should be asking yourself first, why? What are you afraid of?
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I wouldn't put much stock into these two videos. In the first video, it would be easy to find a MOV that will easily take a 6KV/3KA hit. That is not very big. In the second video, all I can suggest is buying equipment at least of this type that has proper UL or other recognized safety lab testing. They will not do what is illustrated in that video (start on fire). Unless you have a faulty power conditioner, you will not see an extended voltage event past about 132V for any period of time either unless you are in a developing country. There are many fail-safes to prevent this. jay23187 posts11-04-2019 6:30pm@atdavid
Thank You for posting that!
We have made it a priority to keep your equipment safe with our products, and we accomplish this by:
-clamping voltage (the lower the better) The
mention of a clamping voltage means The Gate most likely uses cheap
MOVs. Not only is it a potential liability for your insurance, it is
also a potential safety & fire hazard!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=zmcD635NNPU
https://youtube.com/watch?v=JujCqjLSQF8
|
I 100% stand by my statement that you are bringing absolutely 0 to this thread and in fact are derailing it for your own personal agenda. You should be ashamed of yourself but probably too lacking in self awareness and too full of self importance to feel that.
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I read your posts here, and on Facebook. I see the anger and lashing out every time someone moves your cheese. You are very good at telling others how to live, but don’t follow your own rules. You are quick to tell others their hearing is bad or their system is not "resolving" meanwhile .... your speakers ....
"Turning the world upside down?" ..... a couple posts by a few people is hardly turning the world upside down. That is quite some hyperbole in your statement. If you cared about the sound of your system you would return this, upgrade your speakers and invest in room treatment, not keep looking for magic beans. |
Frank isn't fooling anyone either buying a questionable "power conditioner accessory" worth 3-4x his speakers, but sure, you guys pick on me. Have at it. Nothing you can say about me changes what I wrote above.
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Oh I stand corrected OregonPapa,
The 3 people who spent $5,000 with barely any information claim to have "huge" improvements in their system one of them being you. So let me get this right, you have untold amount of expensive fuses, connector treatments, interconnects, wires, etc. ..... but the currently going for about $1000-1500 (tops) on the used market, approximately 20 year old speakers with 20 year old drivers are -not- a limiting factor in your system? Changing the binding posts and jumpers is not going to fix inherent limits in the driver technology of the time. Things have changed a lot since then and a simple fuse change is not going to change limitations in the drivers no matter how much you convince yourself. No matter what price they were built at, the present value is $1,000 - 1,500. If they were truly a cult item, the price would be higher. They are built to a price point, and with large cabinets and a lot of drivers, compromises had to be made. Magic beans. I saw the pictures of your room. A fuse would not be my first upgrade.
You have attacked people online for all matter of things, but mainly for disagreeing with you. You can try to label how you wish, but that is the gist. I can’t even read many of your posts because the threads have been shut down for excessive shilling. What am I supposed to think about that?
You claim the "gate" isn’t a mere accessory. Can you tell me what it is? The MFR claims passive PFC functionality. That implies capacitors across the line. There is also the claim of 3 stages of surge protection, but it cannot be damaged by lightning/etc. above. This unit connects across the AC lines. If you are clamping like this, to do an effective job, you must absorb energy, possible lots of it. The claim of "no damage" is questionable in that case. Maybe it is no damage for a certain level of surge, but there are no specifications on what that is. Has that surge capability been tested? It only connects neutral to 1 phase. What about the other phase?
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Beautiful system by the way. I would consider adding some diffusion as opposed to only absorption in your room, but I assume you have had someone professionally help with the acoustics? Your speakers are far enough apart and the Magicos wide enough in dispersion that some diffusion between them on the front wall may help a bit. That aside, you really seemed to be clutching for a difference in your review and perhaps were not sure if the difference was positive or negative? FYI, the neutral is not really "floating". It is the center-tap of mains transformer that two hots that go to your Torus are connected to, but now 1/2 that mains transformer (outside your house somwhere) forms a loop with your "GATE", but the other half does not. As the GATE will still be a capacitive load for the split phase feed to your house it will modify power factor, but do it only through 1/2 the mains transformer split-phase ... through the aforementioned loop. I am not sure you can visualize what I described above, but hopefully you get a sense that maybe something is wrong. If you believe a product like the GATE can help, then you should have something that connects to the two hots coming to your TORUS, and if you are concerned about the surge suppression capabilities, then also a connection to Neutral/Ground.
folkfreak1,325 posts11-05-2019 8:57am@atdavid I think there are a few more sales than that -- and in my system, with maybe a little more "up to date" speakers the Gate contributes a clearly positive improvement ... https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/perfect-path-tecnologies-the-gate/post?postid=1748846#1748846
I’m on record as being on the cynical side of the fence as it relates to PPT but in this case the "hype" is justified ... but on the other hand as my system contains loads of other voodoo tweaks you may choose to just ignore my perspective :-)
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I would validate with the supplier that the device is rated for 220-240V. The way you currently have connected is 120V (hot-neutral).
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Given I have music on all the time at work, and usually relax with an hour+ on average every night, yes I think you could say I do. I am listening to it right now ... Just curious ... do you listen to music? |
grannyring, You will note that your "kindest and most professional posters" who I have seen exhibit quite different behaviours (this is not the only place he posts), came after me first. I admittedly made one small snarky comment which I took down. It wasn’t very professional and I can admit that.The rest of what I wrote are some of the few, but not the only posts that take a more critical view of some of the claims made for the product and I have addressed (as others have) such claims as it is a whole home surge protector, but only connects to 1 hot and neutral, and the wires are long both which limits effectiveness for protecting the whole house, that the claim was made that lightning will not damage it, but it connects across the AC lines and mentions clamping voltage which means dissipated energy, and that energy has to go somewhere if the unit is to protect your equipment, that the power factor correction is via only 1 hot-neutral connection which means effectively the circuit for PFC extends back to the mains transformer. I do not claim the product will not offer some level of protection, but most people on this forum are not able to make a critical analysis of the significant claimed feature set versus the reality of the communicated installation. grannyring4,919 posts11-05-2019 1:45pm I find @oregonpapa to be one of the kindest and most professional posters on Agon. He is well respected here and has shown more patience than most when confronted with the types of negative posts we see here based on zero actual experience with the products being trashed. He is one of Agon’s good guys and aims to help others here achieve great sound. |
You will perhaps notice Frank,
That until you attacked me, I never questioned anything on the audio side, I merely pointed out that their was a disconnect between the claims for the product, how products that make such claims work, and the details on the product.
In fact, I even disagreed with a safety concern that was raised given how it is installed.
Hate to break it to you Frank, but I spent many years in business to business sales .... did quite well actually, it was how I was able to finance my own company and I still spend a good amount of time selling. |
I may not agree with everything you say mahgister, but I like what you bring to the table!! mahgister738 posts11-06-2019 2:12pmYour interesting observations are typification of 4 basic attitudes toward a new situation or a possible set of events:
The individual inquisitive sceptic attitude toward a new unknown possibility,
The more socialistic open enthusiastic mind,
The more impersonal and straight expert restricted attitude, coming from past learnings,
And finally the rebel and disruptive attitude in which we must
distinguish the good faith rebel from the bad faith disruptive spirit...
All this is in us to some extent...
I apologize for the simplification of these very informative observations... Thanks... |
