Parasound to Pass Upgrade

I own a Pass Labs X250 and it runs HOT and adds to the electrical bill every month but sounds fantastic. I also own a BHK 250 which also sounds wonderful. The next thing you should consider is what happens if you have a problem after the sale or your warranty has just expired. These two companies are still owned the founders of the original company. And in my experience are offering a service second to noe.

Thanks, Paul and Scott at PS Audio and Mr. English at Pass Labs

I have a pair of JC1s (not the +) with matching JC2, very nice sounding and I liked having the ability to switch between class A/B and A. The JC1s run hot in class A but sound very good for lights off listening. Last year I upgraded my system to a Pass X250.5 matched to a XP-20 preamp. The Pass build quality is excellent and the sound is superb. I would put the Pass components a rung or 2 higher in sound quality, but the Parasound JC1s are pretty close.
 

I also have a Prima Luna tube preamp that I use listening to vinyl LPs or streaming from an Auralic Aries G2 through a Terminator II dac. The combination of the tube preamp with a solid state main amp is, in my opinion, the way to go for extended late night listening. Speakers are GE T-Reference. My dedicated listening room is 14x17 with 8’ ceiling.

I still have the Parasound equipment and will be selling.

I read a lot, but seldom post. I had the JC-1's and the JC-1 pluses. No comparison !!! The pluses are night and day different, and should bring you what you are looking for. Take your music to a retailer and just listen.

FWIW, I went from what is arguably the best sounding Pass amp, the XA25 (so I’ve been told), to an SST Son of Ampzilla II. These were used with a variety of speakers, including my Revel F208s. The Ampzilla is as close as I’ve encountered to the sound of the XA25, but also has the requisite grunt. It was just what I needed to bridge the gap between the effortless power of a Parasound A21 and the audiophile traits of the Pass. Suffice to say, the SST is an incredible bargain of an amp. It’s also easier on the power bill.

With your budget I would consider the SST Ampzilla 2000 monoblocks. That is if you can get past their lab equipment aesthetic.

It seems quite a few Pass owners make a switch to Coda amps, a brand that shares similar roots, and is also located in NorCal. It was founded by a couple ex-Threshold engineers. Coda and Boulder are the only brands piquing my interest at this stage.

All that said, I don’t think you can go wrong with one of the higher output Pass amps. That is, if you can live with the heat and grid power consumption.

@firstonetallguy thanks!

@audphile1

Martin Logan Expression ESL 13A Electrostatic Speakers

My ultimate quality speakers (for me). The Pass Labs X260.8 took the ultra-high frequency edge off without losing any treble detail.  This is what people mean when they say they are analog sounding. 

I have had a few listening sessions that lasted for 2 to 4 hours where my whole system put me in a music trance that I never wanted to leave.  This happened in my late teens and early 20s with the addition of that wildwood weed.  I am now in my 70s and no juice is needed. Pure electronic heaven.

@dubz IMHO, Parasound preamps aren't anywhere as good as their new amps are.

I had the A21 / P6 combo a few years ago. Moving up from P6 (think I went to a Mac C2600 back then) was a big upgrade.

I wouldn't give up the JC1s until you try them with a good tube pre-amp. I had the Parasound P5 and P6 preamps with my JC1 mono's driving Focal Kanta 2's and thought it sounded ok. Then I got a Rouge RP7 tubed preamp and could not believe the difference. Total game changer!

That’s very cool @firstonetallguy 

What speakers are you driving with the 260.8 monos?

@taylorro

I have the PS Audio BHK and the Pass Labs X260.8 mono amplifier (2)
I have owned the Pass Labs XA 100.5 and XA 100.2 amps.
I have not heard the Parasound JC-1 except at audio shows.  My memory says it was average good sounding.  I have not closely evaluated it under well controlled situations.

I can tell you about the X260.8.  After reading reviews of this amp, I traded my XA 100.5 and XA 100.2 amps for the upgrade.  I really liked the 2 -XA’s.  I was just persuaded that I would hear the difference in the upgrade and I had 30 days to return.  
I heard such a difference that I called the dealer, Reno HI-FI. I wanted to know why was there such a major difference in all of the audible characteristics of the music I was now hearing.  I pissed him off when I said that Pass Labs should be selling this mono at a lower price because the majority of people who listen to music, not audiophiles, will never be able to afford this and never know how wonderful music really can be.
I can find no flaws with the 260.8.  I can only listen to the music and truly enjoy it to a degree I never thought would be possible in my home.
Both amps only get slightly warm. 

@reg19 Re: tube preamps, there are still levels.

I have two tube preamps at home.

With Audio Research REF6, JC1+ sound 'average', restrained. With the same preamp, the Pass X260.8 sound magical.

That's good intel since you've actually tried it. I wonder if that JC-1 favors some kind of particular output/input impedance match before it opens up.  Or, do you think it's just how the JC-1 is?  (while I don't own one, came close before doing something different instead). Nice to read your 260.8 experience, and its sound. 👍

@OP. Experience from an owner of JC1s and Pass XA60.8s - and familiar with the Class AB Pass's. I think its a worthwhile upgrade you are contemplating. But I would listen to the XAs as well as the Xs before making a decision. If your speakers are 4 ohm, you may not need as big a Pass amp as you think. I don't find the heat from the power amp to be objectionable and that's in a small room. However, I don't live in a hot climate so experiences will differ.

@decooney 

Re: tube preamps, there are still levels.

I have two tube preamps at home.

With Audio Research REF6, JC1+ sound 'average', restrained. With the same preamp, the Pass X260.8 sound magical.

Re: heat, there is not much difference between how warm JC1+ get vs X260.8. Perhaps, X260.8 gets 3-5 deg warmer. Never hot though.

@reg19 thanks for that clarification. I was referring to the specs and I guess they don’t tell the full story. 
 

@ghdprentice my listening room is in the basement. Lots of trees around the house that create good amounts of shade. I never needed an AC in this room with the XA30.8 and the X250.5 that I owned in the past. I think the X260.8 amps will get hotter than my XA30.8 but I doubt it will be unbearable here. I don’t plan to keep the amps on 24/7. 

I had an XA25 which is class A and it sounded amazing and it ran hot, not warm. 

jh

To: @taylorro Have you thought about pairing up a really good TUBE preamp with your existing JC-1 monos?

Maybe trying this first as a go-between option.  Apparently not uncommon for people to do with JC-1s.   I use a tube preamp with my Pass/Forte' Class A amp, and would not have it any other way. 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tube-preamp-recommendations-please-to-partner-with-parasound-jc-1-s

Lots of talk about “heat” and “warm”. Really?… Decent amps have heat and if you don’t think they do then they’re junk. Anyway I’ve had Parasound amps and love them.  They’re warm and quite subtle but consistent and priced well below their potential… 

First of all, I owned a x350 for over ten years__ granted in a fairly large room… but it never got more than warm. And some of you have $10K amplifiers and no air conditioning? Seriously?

I think only people who have owned Pass amps would be qualified to comment on how much heat they make, how they sound etc. (some comments here suggest the member is making an educated guess). I have a Pass 250.8 running Sasha 2 (with a Pass xp10 pre) in a 13 x23 dedicated listening room. Highly musical, powerful and smooth- I listen to jazz, funk, fusion. Contrary to what some people have said here, I'll confirm - the amp def runs hot and consumes 400 watts when powered on and idling. Much more when actually reproducing music. The room has no heat or AC and is in the basement. In the winter months the room gets down to 58 overnight. Within an 1-2 hours, with the amp on, the room is 68 and will hit 70. The rest of the year the room starts at 64 in the morning and when running the amp for a couple of hours it'll hit 72, sometimes 74. You can take a guess what these numbers would be if there were TWO big Pass amps running - 800 watts or more just at idle for starters. I have a pair of Bel Canto REF 600 m I pop into the system in July and August as they make no heat....I LOVE the Pass 250.8 and encourage anyone to consider their amps. The few I've had have all sounded great and work well with a wide variety of speakers I've had- Maggies, Cornwall 4, Focal 1038 BE, Sopra 2, Harbeth 30.2, SHLS5 Super, Sabrina and now Sasha 2.

@audphile1  The Maestro III are 3.5 way speakers. They dip down to 1.7 ohms at 110Hz.

@reg19 so the Focal MU3 are 93db sensitive, 4ohm (min 3ohm). What makes them so difficult to drive?

I’m contemplating replacing my XA30.8 with X260.8 to drive my Wilson Sabrina that are 4ohm (dip down to around 2ohm) and 87db sensitive. Based on your statement I should be worried about matching the X260.8 with the Sabrinas just based on specs the Sabrinas looks like a tougher load than your Focals.

@taylorro Interesting.

Currently, I own both the X260.8 and the JC1+ and have A/B’ed them several times.

Conclusion: Pass is more musical / euphonic.

I currently have two sets of speakers at home: Focal Scala Utopia (sold to someone, awaiting delivery) and Focal Maestro Utopia III.

The Pass sounds better with the Focal Scala Utopia (and I expect it would sounde better with a majority of speakers). However, the Maestro III are notoriously hard to drive - and with these, I prefer the JC1+.

So, my X260.8 shall be put up for sale soon.

It’s funny you suggest that as those are some that I am definitely considering. Thanks very much. 

@taylorro if you pick decide on pass amps, go for pass pre. If you want a tube preamp, audio research Ref 5se or 6se should be great paired with Pass amp. 

@ddafoe my room is about the same size as yours. Also no AC. The XA30.8 is not terrible in the summer. I would assume the x260.8 gets as hot as x250.8 and adds another chassis. I am still most likely going to try the X260.8 though. I think my speakers will like these amps a bit better than the XA30.8. Plus I’m too curious to hear them and will regret if I don’t try them in my system. 

You might also ask for comparisons to the BHK in the PS Audio amps forum.

Well I went from Parasound early on to Luxman and am now very happy.

The P7 is actually a pretty transparent bit of kit, maybe their best preamp ever below the JC lines.

I guess I’m looking for something different. I have enjoyed the JC-1s but would like a little more musicality and extension. I do admit I simply like to try different things every few years. I am also looking at the appropriate preamp for whichever amp I choose. Currently the Parasound P7 is most likely a weak point but I have a hybrid audio/video system. Since I don’t use the video portion any more, I’m looking to get an exclusively audio based system. 

@m_j_s thanks! Reason I’m asking is I have a relatively small room and my XA30.8 doesn’t get hot enough to affect it. Worried about having a space heater there as it would suck in summer months…

I've owned both the X250.8 and XA30.8 in my small 12x17 dedicated listening room (extremely well insulated walls, but no AC), and both would send me out of the room in the summer sweating like I had just been in a sauna.   I really liked both amps and enjoyed the heat in the cooler months, but in the end sold both for cool running monos.   I didn't notice any difference between the two (XvsXA) relative to how hot my room got.   AC would solve that problem though...; both are great amps!

@taylorro what are you missing with the JC-1s that you believe could be better solved for you with the Pass X260.8s or PS Audio BHK amps?

I did own one of the smaller plus+ amps from Parasound for a while, but not the original JC-1s. PTA reviewer Dave M and a few others have commented looking for more of this - "slightly bloomier low end along with a smidgen of extra juice to the mids".

And you, what do you want more/less of, if you can describe it?    Thx.  

With the 260.8 being class AB, there is little heat. Driving them hard, they will get warm, but not hot.

All the best.

@ja_kub_sz , maybe you meant me?  I brought the JC1+s in with my YG Hailey 2's.  I already had the Audionet Max amps there, but had moved them upstairs where I also loved them with my Revel Salon 2's. So now looking for new amps downstairs with my YG Haileys. I thought the well reviewed Parasound JC1+s were were worth a try.  Ironically, @taylorro OP has now asked about the PS Audio BHK mono amps.  I had them also, paired with the BHK pre and Directstream DAC.  At this time, I did not have the Hailey's, but the PS Audio equipment was all sold to move up to Audionet.  I have heard good stuff at this price point, including Pass, Ayre and Luxman.  Probably the Koda as well, I have not heard it.  I truly believe the Audionet mid line (Pre G2 and Max amps are superb at their price point.  So much more music in there, resolution, SPEED, full tonality.  NOT for Tube lovers or fans of McIntosh. (yes I tried these also).

@audphile1 Dont think you’ll have a problem with the X260.8. The larger XÁ models might be a different story and of course the XS.

@m_j_s thanks! Reason I’m asking is I have a relatively small room and my XA30.8 doesn’t get hot enough to affect it. Worried about having a space heater there as it would suck in summer months…

My X260.8’s get warm in use, but I wouldn’t say they get hot.

The Pass labs are a bit warmer ,but also cleaner sounding , with better headroom

and dynamics , having dedicated amp stands to is a plus ,,there are I believe 10 fuses in the JC1 monos  in thePass  labs far less this too explaines and different design topology designs. For that much money there are a lot of excellent products 

the Coda pure class Aamps may be better still ,at $16 k retail each 

but getting a decent discount brings this down their top $7k Fet preamp 

is superb even against preamps 2 x their cost , Mikeat Audio Archon 

is worth the call.

@fastninja12  if the JC1+ disappointed you, what did you ultimately ended up going with? Also what was your speaker pairing if you don't mind me asking? I am enjoying my JC1+ amps now much more after pairing them with my Sopra No. 3's as opposed to my previous JBL L100 classic speakers.

The Pass x series produce little heat. I had X350 for over ten years. Under load it gets a little warm. Pass xSeries amps are very good for solid  state. To me much more musical than the Parasound.

Let's throw the PS Audio BHK 300s into the mix as well. So moving from Parasound JC-1 to either Pass Labs X260.8 or PS Audio BHK300. Thanks for all the feedback.

Rob

I agree @jdub39 !
But they are a great value used and can be had new for less than list.

regardless, I did purchase the JC1+ pair and was disappointed.  And I have a halo 5 channel amp and a small halo 2 channel I used bridged for center channel.  I liked them.  

I’m also curious about the X260.8. One question I would like to add, hopefully not high jacking this thread, is how much heat do the X260.8 amps produce?

The speakers for now would be the Revel Ultima2 Studios

I think Pass has a distinct sound that works better with some speakers than with others.  Under no circumstances would I consider it a blanket "better" than anything from Parasound, regardless of price.

Contrast the performance with your speakers with Ayre, Luxman and Mc at least before making a purchase.

^^^ At 30K I would hope it did best the JC-1+

I compared the JC-1+s to Audionet Max monos and the Audionet were better in all aspects.