Night and day speaker connection

I've never understood why guys go for bi-wire in the first place. I mean yeah, they buy into the technical explanation. Duh. But then it seems they never bother go and listen and see if there's any there there. Which there isn't. As you just demonstrated.

Oh well. Maybe someone will read this and be saved. We can only hope. Thanks!

It's very possible that you are hitting that threshold where awg makes a difference.  If you "bi-wire" a standard set of speaker cable (such as Audioquest, which is only 13awg to begin with), you are essentially splitting up the amount of conductors.  On a 13awg Audioquest cable, your "bass" bi-wire is only going to be 15-1/2 awg, and treble is 16-1/2 awg.

Doing a bi-wire on a much larger cable would likely work much better, like if the main cable was 9 or 10 awg.

There is a simple explanation for this. You have effectively doubled the gauge to all the drivers with speaker cable. Imo the change is not primarily due to moving to use of a jumper, but by supplying the entire works with double the speaker cable. 

When you split the bi-wire cables, you had half the gauge going to each set of posts. Now, you have doubled the gauge to the speaker via speaker cable. That is a huge difference in performance and is imo the greatest reason for the improvement. 

I always do that when I use jumpers, that is, use a pair of speaker cables to the preferred set of posts for the input. You can reverse it and remove one set of cables from the posts, and you will have a diminishment of the performance globally. 

And now, the coup de grace, are you ready? There is a superior option better than what you just did. It would involve four pair of speaker cables, yes, double bi-wired. It is another step above doubling a set of cables with jumpers. Most would not do this because of cost/availability of cables. However, if I am not mistaken, you have plenty of cables. ;) 

You are correct; the quality of the jumpers is very important. :)

Thanks guys, you confirm that I am not only dreaming... 

This is whats called "shotgunning"?

@millercarbon - Just because a) you can’t hear it or b) don’t like what you hear, does not mean it is not audible or an improvement.

Please see http://ielogical.com/Audio/CableSnakeOil.php/#BiWire and read on about different jumper configurations.

When I switched to Kimber BiFocal-XL from another bi-wire, the veils, pace, etc...

As ALWAYS YMMV. Appreciation is system and listener dependent.

I Tri-wire my ushers. I have a single speaker wire coming from the amp to the bass module. I then use a biwire speaker cable from another set of binding posts on the amp that hooks up the midrange and tweeter. My old setup was using the same single wire to the bass module then using a single 3’ Synergistics Research wire from the bass module to the midrange input then using a 8” jumper from the midrange to the tweeter.
My current tri-wire setup is much more simple and sounds better.

twolwftears,  Probably it would be difficult to make and find banana or fork connectors that accept such a big awg cable ?
Two biwired speaker cable together:
2 x 15 AWG x 2 = ? AWG

If your speaker binding posts accept spade and banana, you could one of each on the terminations.

The only technical explanation for bi wire is someone want to make more money selling you wire. Bi amping is another situation all together.

The obvious counter-argument is that wire doesn’t cost anything. Hel-loo!

If nothing else, it doubles your awg, and gets you nearer to the ideal of battery connector leads.

Two 15awg=12awg
Two 12awg=9awg
WBT crimp sleeves(0445) and WBT bananas solves the problem

audiosens,

The improvement you heard by paralleling (aka, "shotgunning") the two speaker cables and jumpering at the speaker posts would indicate that the wire gauge used in your original biwire configuration was not adequate. There might be a slight improvement over your current setup by running the original biwire configuratrion (without the jumper)  using larger gauge wire but, if you're happy with the sound, leave it as is.

Congrats on finding a no-cost improvement. Those are the best kind.

the wire gauge

is irrelevant.

Doubling the run sort of ½'s the L, sort of doubles the C & ½'s the R.

There are complex effects from the pair geometry.

What you have done, dear boy, is to create a new filter. FULL STOP!

I own 3 Usher speaker (pairs). The BE-718, Diamond One, Diamond Two. All were benefited greatly by bi-wiring. It's like they were allowed to breath. A reason for this, frankly doesn't concern me.

janewyman, thank you I just need this to the good size sleeve.

turnbowm, yes more natural, full spectre, space and depth, pristine highs.  There are ways to connect the (-) and (+) on the bindig post:  the red on the bass post and the black on the treble post.  Or both (-) (+) on the bass post.  It change the sound and precision and also impact dependig of our taste.

I think it depends on the speaker. I can confirm when I had Ushers Bi Wiring definitely sounded better. Like Slaw said it's like they were allowed to breath. 

If using 4 speaker cables sound "better" to you, run with it.

But in the end, even the exotic/pricey drivers STILL  use  a low tech, thin gauge of wire going to the actual cone. Hmm....

I’m not knowledgeable enough to explain the reason why I hear what I hear by bi-wiring my Ushers, only glad I hear it.

From my memory, Usher uses/did use JPS wire internally, which is probably better than low-tech thin gauge wire.

a low tech, thin gauge of wire going to the actual cone

that is thicker than the film in the resistors.

When, oh when, will people understand that wire gauge is almost irrelevant when talking about cables. In cables other than lamp cord, Gauge affects R which has the least and a linear effect on impedance. L&C impedance are frequency dependent.

I wish that guy from Israel was still around.

douglas_schroeder , I would probably try your suggestion of double the cables, would it double the performance as the one I just did... wow it would be fantastic !  Thank you

tablejockey , I take a look inside my speaker and the internal speaker cable is not thin at all .

audiosens, I would think that there will be a noticeable difference between what you did and my proposal to double the speaker cables. Whether it would be as profound perceptually as the former, who can say? That is why we have to try things. You will likely have a strong preference for one or the other.

That being said, given enough variety in jumpers I could make any given single pair of speaker cables with the right jumpers outperform any given double pair of speaker cables. It's not that hard to do, however, you need an assortment of wires and the motivation to compare. Most people do not have the goods available, or they are too lazy to try. 

douglas_schroeder  Thank you. I think thats is why the Jumper conception is important in my observations, it is not the cheap melal plate sometimes included in the speaker box.  My Jumper are: combine equal quantities of stranded and solid-core OCC copper. The stranded wire bundle consists of two 14 AWG OCC copper conductors encased in a Teflon© dielectric and oriented in a twisted-pair configuration. The solid-core wire bundle consists of a twisted set of five conductors of various gauges (16/18/20/22/24) for improved bass and treble extension .  So it is a very important part of the important link between speaker binding post and speaker wire

twoleftears.  OK what you mean, if I double or add to my speaker wire, that I had already modified from a bi wire with  a single wire. Do I would use the same speaker post with banana and spade using my Jumper ?  So two cables on the same post, so twice much current as my first modification into single wire, and 4 times more curent as the initial bi wired speaker cable ?  It is not cheap, but if it worth to try, and it would give more improvements...  Thank's

@audiosens — here’s something else you can try. Leave your cables hooked up in a traditional bi-wire configuration, then put your jumpers in as well. Chris Sommovigo (Black Cat) recommended this to me, and now I will not listen without his jumpers along with my shotgun bi-wire AZ Satoris. Bass tightened up and there’s an added sense of space, transparency, and dimensionality that I can’t live without. Not sure how this would compare to what you’re doing now, but as Doug so rightly says, you won’t know until you just try. And it’s also obviously free.

And now, the coup de grace, are you ready? There is a superior option better than what you just did. It would involve four pair of speaker cables, yes, double bi-wired.

I sense a new product idea in the making — a quad-bi-wired cable that comes wrapped in a fire hose! C’mon, you know you want it. Heh heh.

I recommend searching shotgun + speaker on the forum and reading some of the threads.  There can be pluses and minuses.  Depending on the current awg and the resulting awg if you double up.  If you know the awg of your cables, there are simple calculators on line that can tell you what the resulting awg would be if doubling the run.  But there can also be resistance problems.  If you buy and don't like, it can be costly, but if you can find a way to experiment, it could be worth it.  Basically, but connecting both parts of your internal biwire cable to one set of terminals, you've already done a kind of internal shotgun.  Be aware that connecting two wires of the same awg does not come close to doubling the awg--see on-line calculator for how this works.

Soix, I will try "Quad biwiring" with the Jumpers in place. Thank's

What is the point? Doing so completely negates the rationale behind bi-wiring.

All that is happening is a slight tone change is effected, but the woofer signal will still contaminate the uppers.

See http://ielogical.com/Audio/CableSnakeOil.php#BiWire and Bi-Wiring Bridging below. 

Soix, With the jumperS instaled, it is probably the same result, if I connect the 4 cables (banana and spade) on the treble binding post, or with the jumperS instaled, with two cables on the treble and two cables on the bass speaker binding post ?

All I was saying is that instead of hooking up both cables on each speaker to the bass terminal with jumpers, hook one cable to bass and one to mid/treble terminal with jumpers in place.  I don’t know if it’ll be better or worse than doubling the cable on the bass terminal, but it’s free and easy to try and is very beneficial in my system. 

douglas_schroeder  Probably you are right, soon I would double ("without the jumper") one big AWG speaker cable on the bass and one of the same big AWG on mid and tweeter.  I think it would be a killer 

audiosens, yes, just keep trying iterations of cables to the speakers; it is the only way to find the optimum result. That, however, does not assure the best performance from the system. In order to achieve one's best for an entire system all cables in all positions must be considered and tried. I usually recommend trying at least 3 different power cords, USB cables or dig. coax (SPDIF), interconnects, etc. 

That is far more work that most audiophiles are willing to put into it. But, it is the only way to purposefully move toward a better result. Actually, the best way is to compare entire sets of cables and then tune, but that is way beyond the capacity/effort of most audiophiles. 

douglas_schroeder  Test done, The music is amazing with double biwire "without jumper".  If you can afford it,  adding another pair of speaker cable to your bi wireable speaker, one of the best upgrade for me.  Timbre, musicality and no more compressed music, the music flow easily.  But I had to make and return my speaker cable for a factory terminated speaker cable, because the AWG was too large for my connectors, and my abilities.

Big AWG is certainly very available from Audioquest along w silver paste cold welded low mass gas tight ring terminals...

and recently a fantastic new bass wire with unique high frequency filter

External bi wire does two things:

bass cable IF seperated does not modulate mid/treble cable

electrica put the crossover at the amp

of course as Doug so aptly says listen!!!

You can also test an external bi wire with existing cable... it’ this pre 1957 thing.... called mono

some of us dig it, have it, listen now and then...

collect them all and win

I talked to designer and head honcho (he's a honcho!) Alan Yun at Silverline Audio when I bought my Preludes years ago...he said that although they have bi-wire capability, they sound more coherent single wired...I tried both and found that he was absolutely correct, as well he should be as, after all, he's a Honcho.