Hey Joey, did you try out any other tube integrateds before getting the Raven?
New to Integrated stereo tube amps
After decades of listening to and owning solid state amps I recently decided (March, 2021) to jump into the tube amp experience. Owned are SS units made in the 70s and 80s, and examples include the Sony STR V-15, 45 and 55 units as well as a Pioneer SX-D7000 and Kenwood KR-9600 receivers. They are very much in play in different areas of the house and are enjoyed routinely, except for the Sony V45 where the FM tuner crashed... last year!. They're all original and a testament to build quality and audio engineering design of that era. Since these are old school (by anyone's standard) it was way past time to modernize/upgrade just a bit. Note that the 40 year old speakers with some of these look and play as fine today as when brand new. Love the classic gear.
So, 40 years later...yes, I've been out of the market for that long and deciding what to go with was not as simple as I first thought it would be, long gone are the subscriptions to Stereo Review and Audio mags, and online reviews can be challenging to cipher on. I thought adding one more opinion to the mix might be a good thing.
What I discovered were all new names to me; companies like Willsenton, Muzishare, Reisong, Prima Luna, PS Audio, Schiit Audio, etc. and some of the offerings were hybrid SS/Tube design. What I settled on was Raven Audio and their Blackhawk 3.1 20 watt offering. What I like about them is their USA designed and fabbed product, their quality controlled mfg. environment, the principals answered the phones when I called, they returned calls and offered insight that I expect might be available to me in overseas products. Who in China is going to speak with me when I have a question or an issue to resolve? Not so with the Texans.
My experience has been very positive and I have really upped the game when it comes to component and sound definition (I purchased the CeLest Speaker set as well). The Blackhawk is my go to, it's such a simple amp, has no EQ to fuss with and fills a 32 x 18 x 8 room with very satisfying bass, mids and highs where I find new details in music that I've never heard before. In fact this system is so good it stopped my 18 yo kid in his tracks one day. The soundstage is wide, there is depth and there is detail. I call it 3D sound and still can't believe this is from a tube amp with 2 speakers.
Yes it was quite the investment and I believe it was a very good decision. I would make the same call if I had to do it over again. I'm a tube amp convert and a Raven fan, and I hope my 2 cents provides just a bit of insight.
I'm new to the forum here, wish I had found the site earlier this year. Lots of valuable info here...if you have any questions about my experience just shout.
So, 40 years later...yes, I've been out of the market for that long and deciding what to go with was not as simple as I first thought it would be, long gone are the subscriptions to Stereo Review and Audio mags, and online reviews can be challenging to cipher on. I thought adding one more opinion to the mix might be a good thing.
What I discovered were all new names to me; companies like Willsenton, Muzishare, Reisong, Prima Luna, PS Audio, Schiit Audio, etc. and some of the offerings were hybrid SS/Tube design. What I settled on was Raven Audio and their Blackhawk 3.1 20 watt offering. What I like about them is their USA designed and fabbed product, their quality controlled mfg. environment, the principals answered the phones when I called, they returned calls and offered insight that I expect might be available to me in overseas products. Who in China is going to speak with me when I have a question or an issue to resolve? Not so with the Texans.
My experience has been very positive and I have really upped the game when it comes to component and sound definition (I purchased the CeLest Speaker set as well). The Blackhawk is my go to, it's such a simple amp, has no EQ to fuss with and fills a 32 x 18 x 8 room with very satisfying bass, mids and highs where I find new details in music that I've never heard before. In fact this system is so good it stopped my 18 yo kid in his tracks one day. The soundstage is wide, there is depth and there is detail. I call it 3D sound and still can't believe this is from a tube amp with 2 speakers.
Yes it was quite the investment and I believe it was a very good decision. I would make the same call if I had to do it over again. I'm a tube amp convert and a Raven fan, and I hope my 2 cents provides just a bit of insight.
I'm new to the forum here, wish I had found the site earlier this year. Lots of valuable info here...if you have any questions about my experience just shout.
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Quite the accomplishment to come out of the past like that and do so well. However you managed to winnow it down to Raven, well done! Mine is this very moment sitting at the FedEx store in Redmond waiting for me to come pick it up! The wide deep detailed 3D sound stage you described is exactly what I am expecting..... tomorrow. |
I've been enjoying my new Raven Nighthawk 3.1 since the beginning of March. I love it! No regrets whatsoever! James and Dave are the best! I really love the wide and deep soundstage. The detail and resolution blow me away. Bass is extended and deep. And, the background is BLACK as can be. All in all, the experience is great, and well worth the money.
I highly recommend! |
@shtinkydog I did not actually demo the amp. Back in the day we had Stereo Village, a local Atlanta store where you could walk in, demo anything and everything offered in the market via their sound rooms. I miss that wide variety...the golden days of audio gear. I settled on the Raven due to their confidence in product and watching many you tube reviews on lots of tube amps. @millercarbonThank you for the kind words. For me this was a 3 month research project and I almost pulled on the Prima Luna with Tekton Double Impacts. So glad I did not. Best listening to you on the new Raven gear, it's the real deal and I already know you'll love it! @three_easy_payments I'm unsure regarding the power tubes, a quick call to James, Dave or Bryant at Raven will confirm this for you. I trust the Raven engineering to have built the amp around a solid power tube spec. Mine are Tung Sol 7581A, an upgraded version of the 6L6. They are balanced finely and smooth like Skippy in the headroom department. @ironhead Well said sir. I agree the detail is incredible. As I said prior it stopped my 18 yo in his tracks, what I didn't say is that he is a skilled musician (piano and percussion) and has true perfect pitch hearing. I knew right then this was the correct buy. |
Nice choice, I’m jealous. My comments don’t fully apply is I run different gear , but still low power tubes . My favorite 6L6 is the Winged C Svetlana ( not the current ones ) . I have a large collection of power tubes including NOS TUNG Sol 6550 , GEC in KT-66 and KT-88. Winged C in 6550 and 6L6. Many new production tubes including Psvane TII . The Winged C’s have the airy sweetness of the GEC, but with a low end that’s full like a modern TUNG Sol KT-120. I’ve used the Winged C in EL34 as well. On the small driver tubes , and I’ve tried most , the NOS Telefunkens are astounding and worth the price . Since I’m down to looking to purchase a Raven or Quicksilver, I can’t comment as an owner . But talk to the shop and see what they like , and if it’s a huge difference as with some other amps . When I do pull the trigger on one of these two brands to replace my Rogue/Had combo, I will be rolling in the tubes mentioned , as that’s what my preference is . Would you please post or PM me when you do as I’m very interested in your results . Cheers , Mike . |
I had a very similar experience. Still have my vintage Pioneer and Marantz receivers from 40-45 years, which still work beautifully. I was more interested in going from SS to tubes. Read a lot at this site, did a lot.of online investigation. Spoke to the folks at.Rogue and at Raven. The people at Raven sold me. Bought a Nighhawk 3 in March. Had some initial hiccups...which were fixed expeditiously...by again speaking to James and Bryant at Raven. Then to top it off, spoke at length to Dave about power tube options and upgraded to Guagong 6L6GC tubes and...the sound is heavenly. Wish I were more adept at verbally describing sound, but yeah, I knew it when I heard it. Great choice. |
joeyga OP Many tube integrates, are just a poweramp with passive volume control on it's input, and source input selector switch, that makes them look like a "real integrated" with an active preamp section. You may want to just buy a good tube poweramp (better sound I think) and add a two input $49 Schiit Sys passive pre https://www.schiit.com/products/sys Cheers George |
@georgehifi You base this on what? Have you ever heard the Blackhawk? Actually it is the preamp section that makes the Ravens Avian series such nice tube integrated amps. You may want to just buy a good tube poweramp (better sound I think) and add a two input $49 Schiit Sys passive pre https://www.schiit.com/products/sys |
@joeyga Welcome to the Raven family! I am a Blackhawk 3.1 owner. I love it a lot. Mine is on a system with a digital front end and driving a pair of Magico A3s and a pair of REL T/9i subs. There is some other peripheral equipment around it. But the Blackhawk is a quiet amp, with black background. It does have that holographic soundstage with good imaging and detail. But I have to say all that is contributed by the system. The Blackhawk though is definitely not the weak link in my system! I am sure you can roll tubes. I haven’t gotten to that point yet. Enjoy. |
Of course, many phono stages have nowhere near the output a dac or cdp etc has. You need to find one of the many phono stages that have >60dB of gain for that to be able to be mated successfully with a Schiit Sys, then into a poweramp with normal input sensitivity of 500mV to 1v input for max wattage output. Cheers George |
Ah, half-way through this I was thinking what a wonderfully genial, civil, and actually quite uplifting discussion! Although I am not in anyone's league here, I actually began to feel nostalgic and emotional for the sound of the last 6L6's I had--nearly 60 years ago in our Fender Bandmaster/Bassman amps. But alas, I should have known things were going to deteriorate. |
I think what kept me from going with Prima Luna was the overseas manufacturing, I like to support American made with quality and was not sure regarding future interaction with them. That said I seriously considered the EVO 300 and think they look great with the cage as protective measure for the tubes. However there were used PLs I found for sale, ebay, etc. where I could not find any used Raven gear at that time. I watched many of Kevin Deal's videos during my search and he comes off a a very knowledgeable guy. I was very close in considering the Tekton Doubles as well, another great American made product, and I may add in a set to replace those old Acculab 440s in my Pioneer system. I like the Tekton line, but had an opportunity to bring in the excellent CeLest' model. Simply put, I love these speakers, and with the Nighthawk sound so good. The Acculabs I can listen to for maybe 2 hours, then I'm done. The CeLest I can listen to for extended periods, 4-5 hours they ae still pleasing to my hearing. The CeLest were received about 3 weeks prior to the amp, so were unboxed immediately and plugged into the Pioneer set. Looking at them they are wonderfully made, beautiful finish but looked kind of small for a tower; therefore I was initially a bit worried, perhaps I made a mistake and should have popped on the Tektons? They were run around the clock at low volume for 2 -3 weeks straight and after that at higher volume...and sounded fantastic. Even better with the amp after receipt. On a side note I use Schitt Mani for my phono pre-amps, and spin much vinyl on 40 year old turntables. You guys will have to school me on the DAC, what it does, why I need one...what do you guys recommend? |
@georgehifi we bow to your greatness all hail the wonder of Georgie. Looks like another without any tech knowledge has decided to become yet another **** ****, wonder if he’s a fuser. (Just searched and Yes!!! he is!!!) But this is even worse dedicating a thread to yours’s truly, wow I’m really honored to be excluded from shilling a product like this, it’s aimed purely at the gullible and their pockets. And get’s shilled by guys like this. (And btw you can save the $600 and get a can of Electrolube contact cleaner and/or lube spray that does the same and better for under $10) https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cable-goop-review-george-is-going-to-freak MC: was it the Reflection that you got?Yeah it sure was, he can’t keep out of anything, even if it doesn’t involve him in the slightest. |
Yeah I think it was, but he’s that oblivious to what’s going around, he’s now also become a fuser on top of it, save us🙏 That avatar of his, is Einstein trying to tell him something very personal. https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2BWXC2R/emoticon-showing-a-screw-loose-sign-by-twisting-his-finger-into-te... Cheers George |
shtinkydog Yeah, I’d go with that also. And I think Einstein in his avatar is suggesting something else to him. Cheers George |
Ayon has by far the best tube management out there it has a microprocessor that monitors each tube and regulates each tube for premium MA current , when a tube does fail the unit goes into stand by ,and a led lights up telling you which tube is at fault,instead of possibly taking out a transformer , just replace the bad tube ,push buttons to recalibrate bias and you are done ,Far more accurate then auto bias which I uses extra resistors and just averages all tubes ,a waste of potential ,or energy, and chokes and transformers are world class Lundahl transformers ,look them up top quality not who knows where mostly China like prima luna or worse. tell Keven it’s a known Fact C core transformers are used in the worlds best tube amps,not torroid transformers !! |
Guys for a review of the Raven CeLest' speaker set see my first post over on Steve Hoffman. I will try to get that posted here as well, seems like this forum is much more active. Thanks to all of you for chiming in, hope to keep learning as I get back into this hobby. What DAC do you recommend for a tube setup? Is streaming with blue tooth sufficient or minimal in your opinion? |
@ghasley Thanks for that. intel. Got it. I use blue tooth with the Raven but mainly spin vinyl as the source. On my outdoor system I use BT as well and it seems sufficient enough (Sirius/Amazon) on (4) Polk Audio Atrium 7s. There is also a 300+ CD player for outdoor, turntable, etc. These run on Pioneer 120w receiver. For DACs considering Schiit Gumby, PS Audio Gain Cell, and the RME ADI-2. Anything comparable that I should check out? |
@puppyt I connect the RELs to the Blackhawk by using a pair of Kimber REL Cu high level cables. You attach the red and yellow wire spades to the 4 or 8 ohm speaker terminals and the black wire spades to the speaker grounds. Attach the NL4 ends of the cables to the NL4 attachment on each REL and you are ready to adjust to integrate the RELs in your system. I do not use the subwoofer output on the Blackhawk 3.1. |
