New preamplifier - Backert Rhumba Extreme, Aesthetix Calypso Signature, Ayre KX5 Twenty

I recommend adding either Rogue Audio’s  RP-7 or RP-9 to your list.  I originally had an RP-1, but the upgrade to RP-7 was well worth the expense in terms of sound quality.  Both have been reviewed, and Rogue Audio produces their products in Pennsylvania.

I recommend adding either Rogue Audio’s  RP-7 or RP-9 to your list.  I originally had an RP-1, but the upgrade to RP-7 was well worth the expense in terms of sound quality.  Both have been reviewed, and Rogue Audio produces their products in Pennsylvania.

dotto81

Nice choices for a Pre-Amp. I can vouch for Aesthetix and AYRE. Both models are outstanding and match very well with your Quattro CT speakers. At this level of high end, it is a matter of musical taste. Keep me posted on this important matter.

Happy Listening!

@dotto81 ,

I do not have experience with others, but you cannot go wrong with the Backert Rhumba Extreme. I am very pleased with the regular Backert Rhumba and have not changed it since 2018. I can only imaging how much more transparent and musical the Extreme would be.

Good luck and hope you make the right choice.

we have a  demo zesto leto that would be perfect for you 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/zesto-leto-ultra-ii-line-preamplifier

the leto is an amazing preamp with  incredible feature set:

fully balanced 

various grounding options 

innovative tone control

he "Presence Control" is another exclusive feature of the Leto Ultra II. Activated easily from the remote control or the front of the preamp, it will make magical adjustments to gently or dramatically eliminate high-frequency noise. It will also work like a loudness control at low volumes. I would rather have this Zesto control on a preamp than a 33-band active octave equalizer! The only preamp in the world that has this, it works anecdotally as follows: 

 In the zero position it is out of the circuit completely.

In the first position, it very, very gently rolls off the extreme highs, then, while still substantially in the high-band "shelves" the curve and stops its effects. It does not affect the bottom of the high band or the midrange. This gets rid of digital crispies or other very high-band recording anomalies without affecting the textural information or depth perspective. Fantastic!

In the second position, it very gently removes even more problematic high distortion but shelves or stops the curve at the bottom of the high band. It works brilliantly to remove digital noise and bad old Columbia sizzle. It does NOT affect the midrange, reduce depth or sound staging, imaging, or anything but high-frequency problems. The Stradivarius on the older Columbia sounds more clearly defined and images with greater richness than before. Again, fantastic!

In the third position, it gently rolls off the highs and just barely intrudes into the midrange before shelving. No more severe digital problems here and for LPs that are rolled off in the bass, it is a winner. What does not occur is the depth and imaging are untouched! It just makes a crappy recording sound like a very good one. Fantastic on mono LPs that are noisy and most all Toscanni recordings! A great but still gentle filter leaving the music intact.

In the fourth and fifth positions, you have in my opinion, a superb loudness control. The highs and upper midrange are rolled off leaving various levels of lower midrange so you may increase the overall volume and still maintain midrange and bass definition and impact. Best loudness control I have ever used. 

The presence control can be activated on the fly from the remote, so if something in the recording becomes annoying, push the button. This is the most repeatable, reliable high-band filter in the industry and moves the Leto Ultra II to the state-of-the-art in my book.

The Leto Ultra II, with the exclusive use of the 12DW7 tubes and other proprietary circuit changes, is the quietest, most noise-free tube preamp I have ever heard. Backgrounds are now jet black. Images pop in their space and the space between instruments is empty of any noise or grain. I have heard this effect on expensive high-end solid-state preamps, but never on tube units. I believe this is a ground-breaking accomplishment not one I expected in my lifetime.

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/zesto-audio-leto-ultra-ii-preamplifier/

Dave and Troy

audio intellect NJ

zesto dealers

So are we using these forums for dealer advertisements?

I own a Rhumba Extreme 1.3 which I'll never get rid of. That said, it is punchy and dynamic but not at all a traditional warm sounding line stage. In many ways a "straight line with gain" preamp that will reveal every positive and negative aspect of a recording. 

I was thinking about buying the Backart extreme until I see they use a low cost Alps volume attenuator  rather then a much better resistor ladder with relay control like the Linear Tube Audio, just read their write up Alps volume pot for $8500

no Way !!

I have the Backert Rhythm 1.3 in my system. Previously had the McIntosh C47, Prima Luna 400. The Backert is in a league of its own. Much better bass. Try one out on their trial period. 

I’m hoping to do a head to head with Rogue RP9 and the Backert.  
 

I just read some comments about the volume control on the Backert being inferior quality.   Looking forward to the listening.  

Seems like everyone wants to sell you a preamp. Are we just gonna ignore the source(Bluesound). 

@audioman58 ,

Have you listened to a Backert preamp?

Hard to fathom anything from Backert being inferior ...

If all works out (uncertain) I will be buying an end game preamp this year. I have been considering the usual players mentioned here.

I would love to jump on the Backert wagon but have one minuscule issue with the front plate. It does not have a digital display that would enable me to see where the volume is set. Dials are old school and while I sit near my gear, It is paramount that I see a digital readout in volume. I keep hoping a new Backert faceplate with digital volume control is released, but that may never happen.

I had read on this site that someone asked Rogue about the RP-7 vs. the new RP-5 v2, and Rogue stated the RP-5 v2 sounds better. That is what I am leaning into considering it is a few thousand less than the LTA which is probably the best preamp out there at that price. Maybe the Backert beats it, but I just have to have a precision volume mechanism. 

@dotto81 Would be interested in knowing what your thoughts are with relation to the Linear Tube Audio preamp? Why are you not considering it?

I listen to a wide variety of music from Jazz to Blues. Classical has been finding its way more into my rotation. 

@dotto81 Your taste in music really should have no bearing on the choice of preamp! The electronics do not care what the genre is; its job is to amplify the signal with the least coloration possible. To date no-one has ever been able to sort out how to make electronics (or loudspeakers) that favor a certain genre.

I have the LTA under consideration.   One challenge is it’s not available to audition at dealers.  But my primary challenge with the unit is that it does not have a home theater bypass. I sent an email to LTA asking for recommendations for a work around to the HT bypass shortcoming.  Waiting for their response.
 

 If anybody has a recommendation to solve that problem I would like to hear. 
 

I don’t have any experience with any of your candidates regarding a new preamp, but if home theatre is a must, then this will help with finding something with HT bypass capability.

https://www.audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-processor-input

 I think the amp pairing with the Vandersteens to be the primary concern. That being said, with your pre options, I would look at Ayre ss amplifiers and the matching pre.

I sent an email to LTA asking for recommendations for a work around to the HT bypass shortcoming.

@dotto81 The solution is very simple. Find out what volume control setting satisfies the home theater setup. Use that setting when using the home theater processor as an input to the preamp.

@atmasphere Using your HT Bypass workaround is a bandaid but if I recall correctly if you make any volume adjustments while watching a “movie”  the entire system does not stay “in sync”.   I’ll do some research to verify.  thanks for tip.

Regarding equipment based on music.  The equipment does not care what it is producing, but it does give the music being played its sonic signature.  Based on your personal listening preferences or style of music you like or listen to most frequently, you may choose to go with a sonic signature that provides the sound you prefer. 
 

I auditioned a few amplifier candidates today.  Not with my Vandersteen’s but with a speaker that has similar characteristics based on the dealer comments.  After a half dozen songs played on both pieces, I could give each amplifier a sonic signature.   Amp 1, to my ears had more grip and clarity.   With a raspy male blues voice I could taste the cigarette he smoked on break.   The second amp, to my ears, excelled with Allison Krause and Union Station.   The amp pulled me into the performance.  I don’t think a right or wrong, or better or worse.

Now it’s up to me to decide what I want to hear everyday.  We are splitting hairs at this level.   After hearing amp 2 demo, I thought that was the choice.   While driving to my hotel I thought but what about those nights I want to “feel the blues”.  That is amp 1.  

Tomorrow I am planning a similar listening session at a dealer that has Quatro CTs. 

if I recall correctly if you make any volume adjustments while watching a “movie”  the entire system does not stay “in sync”.

@dotto81 IIRC the volume of the home theater processor is controlled by a remote. It feeds that signal to the preamp. If you have a home theater bypass, that is simply a preset volume setting which is usually unity gain in the preamp, thus allowing the remote to have full control. So that's no different if you were to simply use a known volume control setting on the preamp- its literally the same thing. 

Based on your personal listening preferences or style of music you like or listen to most frequently, you may choose to go with a sonic signature that provides the sound you prefer. 

Hopefully the preamp isn't coloring the sound! But the things that make a preamp good for rock will also make it good for classical or jazz, since the same bandwidth is required. Quite literally there's never been an electronic device ever built that favors one music genre over another!

I went from a Rogue RP-7 to a PS Audio BHK Signature to a Backert Rhumba Extreme and the Extreme was excellent, outclassing the others.  I have no experience with the other preamps you are comparing to, and agree that a digital readout of volume would be helpful.  The Extreme has a blue LED on the volume dial that indicates the position, easily visible from across the room; something better than nothing…  You are also dealing with a small, boutique shop and they are readily accessible to answer questions.

Robert

My system is used more for home theatre than stereo listening, and a HT bypass is critical for my preamp.  The Backert's HT bypass works with the power OFF.  The others I had required the power on, slowly eating away at tube life.

Robert

I have the quarto CT’s and just purchased an aesthetix atlas amp and the rogue rp7. What a combo. Makes the speakers all I knew they could be. So I like Rogue and Aesthetix in the mix.  

I have an all Ayre system....VPI....Winfield Cart.....  Vandersteens.  .smiles

Stevie probably doesn't smell very good. Just a guess.

Your speakers and phono stage are your best components. The Backert Rhumba Extreme 1.4 is easily their equal, if not better. (I have one in a  very tricked out system.) Tweaking your turntable and upgrading your streamer (if you use it a lot) will bring great gains, as will cables, power conditioner, etc. The Backert not needing to be on when running HT is a big plus. I've become used to the blue LED on the volume control (vs a digital read-out, but the transparency, resolution and dynamics of the Backert are hard to fault. You will be well on your way to the next level. Have fun!

Ayre would be my first choice, as Vandy's seem to work well with them.

The other course would be to look at the new Vandersteen preamp. It has been in the works for a while, but Mr. V. swears it is near completion. From my friend (ctsooner), it should be worth the wait, and I take his opinions seriously as he seems to share the same interpretations of sound reproduction.

As a Vandy owner, you are entitled to join the forum. Just go to the website.

Bob

I visited a few dealers last week and auditioned some of the kit on my wish list.  
 

First, I want to say I enjoyed the time I spent at each dealer. We all know the challenges these businesses face to keep the doors open.  Each dealer I visited truly had a customer focused attitude and were extremely accommodating to my visit. 

I listened to the Ayre VX5-20 against an Aesthetix Atlas Signature with some Canton speakers and an Orpheus preamplifier.   I preferred the Atlas over the KX5-20 in this system   The Atlas really gripped the music.  It pushed the sound at me   Especially on a few of the blues tracks I played.   The Ayre amp did draw me into the music.   I just preferred the Atlas.   I did not have the chance to listen to the matching Calypso preamp or the Ayre KX5-20 preamp.

Next up was the Aesthetix Mimas integrated with the Vandersteen Quatro CTs. I liked this system but was not blown away.   It would be the economical and dare I say the sensible winner.   In the future I would like to check out the Aesthetix Pallene and Dione.  Thinking about the Mimas after audition I would rather go the separates route than make the sensible choice on this integrated. Provides more flexibility, IMHO.  

The third session consisted of the Ayre VX5-20 amplifier with the Quatro CTs. This session matched the Ayre KX5-20 preamplifier against the Backert Labs Rythm preamplifier.   The Ayre combination brought a smile to my face and the music just hung in the “air”.  I could easily live with that combination. But….after swapping in the Backert and running back through the playlist I preferred the Backert Rythm.  Yes, the Ayre was magical, but to me the Backert and Ayre combo sounded more natural.  It’s hair splitting and personal preference at this level.  

A Backert Rhumba Extreme was not available for audition.

A few takeaways from these sessions.   I was thrilled I could pick out the changes each of these pieces brought to the overall system.  It’s been a number of years since I did listening like this.  Audio shows do not provide this clarity. My sessions were all digital based using streamers and DACs currently out of my price range. A few months ago I had no intention of considering gear in the price range of the components above, but here I am.  When auditioning gear you need to mirror your system as much as possible.  I my case I’m going upstream since I have the Quatro CTs.  And my sonic preference would be soft of neutral.   The Ayre combo just seemed to have as I read in a review after my listening almost a “halo” effect on the sound.   I have fear of growing tired of that. 

I do want to hear some of the gear that may not have been available on this round.  The Aesthetix Atlas and Calypso, Atlas with the Pallene,  Backert and Ayre preamplifiers with the Vandersteen mono blocks.  

Enjoy the music!

I do not want to be mean, but the Rogue preamps are EASILY outclassed by any number of preamps, and I tested the RP-9.

The best I've tested in order are (and I've spent hundreds of hours in comparisons): Aric Audio Motherlode XL, Don Sachs/Lynn Olson Raven preamp (sold by Spatial Audio Lab), and Backert Labs Rhumba Extreme 1.4 (NOT standard Rhumba). All of these are world class preamps, that will last your lifetime......reach out to Aric Kimball, Don Sachs, or Bob Backert; and you will never buy another preamp.

The BAT VK-80/90 is great too, it's not my favorite though my buddy Patrick prefers it to any other preamp.....and he was with me on my listening journey (and he bougth the VK-80)

What do you guys think of Audio Research preamps like REF 6SE compared to some that are mentioned above?

Has anybody else checked out the newer BAT VK-85 or BAT VK-90 preamplifiers? They seem to have limited reviews but positive.  

I upgraded from a Rogue RP 7 to the Backert Rhumba Extreme 1.4 paired to an Aesthetix Atlas Signature amplifier.

In my system and my hearing the Rhumba extreme is in another league compared to the RP 7. Regarding the Alps volume control in the Rhumba it’s far superior to the volume control in the RP7. I had the RP 5 originally which was upgraded to the RP 7 and had the volume control issues with both.

That said Rogue’s support is first class.

@eaneverson What speakers are you using?

I have Vienna Acoustic Imperial Litz speakers 

The only drawbacks to the BAT preamps are the lack of inputs and the blue display which is very 90’s. Otherwise they are probably the best built and some of the best sounding available. They outweigh the Audio Research equivalent products by many pounds.