New Joseph Audio Pulsar Graphene 2

Yeah...Magico’s using those cheap drivers with their under hung speaker designs. Anything to help lower distortion is a good thing in my book.

I didn't say their drivers are cheap, just that the use of underhung voicecoils is not remotely uncommon these days, nor are they expensive. For example, some of Monitor Audio's entry level stuff has underhung coils. The potential for greater expense comes from underhung-coil-drivers of unusually high excursion and power handling. Makes for a larger/heavier motor assembly. Like all choices in speaker design, it's a matter of tradeoffs. An underhung coil is more linear (in theory), but when pushed to the limits, the resulting distortion is quite nasty compared to the softer distortion of an overhung design. 

I think people say that about JA Pulsar's because the drivers are available on OEM supply sites like Madisound and it isn't using anything unique that a DIYer can't easily replicate, such as a custom waveguide.

I just had to chime in (new member virgin post) after reading most of this nonsense/bs of people *assuming* they know more than Jeff Joseph. It's actually quite embarrassing. Heads up I do own the Pulsars for 4-5 years or so. I didn't make the purchase after one stellar review but after a plethora of stellar reviews from all over the world and MOST IMPORTANTLY auditioning them first. Without question they have been rated and still one of the best sounding speakers in the world (yes very true)  and now the first upgrade since 2012. Hmm odds are 100% that this upgrade / modification will significantly better the sound... will comment after some replies to make this more of a conversation..... 

@ashoka posted that the Pulsar was originally less than $5000, and Jeff Joseph raised the price after the positive reviews.

This is not true. Pulsars were introduced at $7000 in 2009. A few years later, with no changes, the price increased by 10% to $7,700. The new price is 15% higher to cover costs of new woofers and increased overhead. 

 https://www.stereophile.com/ces2009/josephs_pulsar/index.html

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/joseph-audio-pulsar

 

 

 

At AXPONA this morning Jeff Joseph's room featured the new Perspective 2 speakers that have the same upgraded features as the Pulsar Graphene 2. I asked Jeff if he expects to do the same on the Pearl 3 model and he said that he does but that will be in the future. The new Perspective retail price is $15,000 USD.

Thanks for the info astewart!

Ugh.   On one hand I was hoping Jeff would do an upgrade on the Perspectives as I've been angling to own a pair of Perspectives.  Was about to buy a pair in the summer when tragedy hit.

Now that he's updated them, before I could buy a pair of the original, I may not ever be able to afford the new higher price.  Sigh....

Now that he's updated them, before I could buy a pair of the original, I may not ever be able to afford the new higher price. Sigh....

Sit tight, Prof!! You'll see many people upgrading and selling their used one's here on A'gon.


Just keep looking and I'm sure Santa will come for you.

Best,
E

FYI, I believe that Jeff will be offering an upgrade path for owners of the Perspectives. He told me already that he will be doing that for current owners of Pulsars. So, I don't think that many folks will be trading in their JA's any time soon.

@rlb61 is correct. Jeff told me today that Perspective owners will be offered an upgrade path. He just doesn't have the pricing nailed down yet.

I just read this announcement about the Perspective on Joseph Audio Facebook:

April 12, 2019
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - WORLD PREMIERE - Perspective2 Graphene! Suite 1521 at the Axpona show.
Building on the original Perspective design, the New Perspective2 now includes Graphene coated Magnesium woofers that have been completely re-engineered using Finite Element Analysis.

What has me a little puzzled is that it only mentions a coating/re-engineering of the woofers.  Whereas the Pulsars upgrade supposedly goes beyond replacing woofers to re-engineered motors etc.I would have thought that if the Perspective upgrade went beyond just a new coating on the woofers that it would be mentioned as well.
?

The Pulsars and Perspectives use the same drivers. 

markalarsen,

Yes I know.  I just find it odd that IF the updates for the Perspectives go well beyond merely a new coating on the drivers, that that information isn't included in the announcement of the new Pulsar 2.

I mean, audiophiles always want as much as they can get for their money in upgrades, which is why audio companies are typically at pains to depict upgrades with as much significance as possible.  So "new woofers with entire new motor system" would sound much more exciting and appealing than just "woofers with a new coating."  Which is why I"d expect such details to be part of an upgrade announcement.

Bunch of info here on what I presume to be the same or similar new SEAS graphene drivers:
https://www.audioxpress.com/news/seas-announces-new-excel-graphene-woofer-series

Good find Prof, reading the specs on their site, the big difference I see is power handling. Long term power handling has more than doubled.

This is by no means a simple graphene coating though, as the article points out, significant changes to the voice coil and suspension have occurred, while the overall frequency response is barely touched. This makes me wonder if the graphene coating is anything more than a paint job? Their white paper mentions corrosion protection as one of the first benefits, a good thing:


http://www.seas.no/images/SEAS_Graphene_White_Paper.pdf


Also, linear travel remains the same 14mm in both, so the maximum limits are going to be similar.


From what I read here, no one should be worried their original Pulsars will be suddenly and severely upset by the new version.


OTOH, if you are Prof and looking for a deal, wait for A’goners and dealers to put the original versions on sale. :)

PS - I do see enough changes to the impedance and overall sensitivity that I expect this will require nearly completely new crossovers, and slightly lower efficiencies.

So much great things about these speakers; part of me wants to hear them while the other part knows ill never have the kind of money to spend so why bother.

i feel like prices keep rising which keeps otherwise loyal people out of the game entirely.

I think it is helpful to hear a lot of different speakers even if they are beyond your budget. Sometimes when you hear what you really like, you can then determine whether the manufacturer make a different model closer to your price point. Or you can wait for a used pair to come up for sale. It might take a while--in this hobby patience is often rewarded in the used marketplace. But, if you haven't heard it, then it is hard to pull the trigger when a good deal pops up because you don't have personal knowledge about how the speaker sounds.  

Even at half price it’s still beyond  me. I’m not the target audience evidently

I think having an iconoclastic point of view really helps. At the genuine high end of speakers, I honestly think half the listeners can't hear a damn thing.

I'm not at all knocking the Pulsars, they're middle ground, high value in my mind.


I'm just saying, being your own taste master can help you save a lot of money. :)

Have you heard the Joseph Audio Profile or Prism?  Lower price points and amazing performance. 

From my correspondence  with Joseph Audio the upgrade to the Perspectives would be all new woofers and modified crossovers.  

I think new woofers with slightly different properties pretty much mandate fiddling with the crossovers.
I note that Jason S of Stereophile wrote in his brief impressions of the Perspectives 2 at Axopona,  that he found a familiar track sounded

"far more mellow and toned down than on my system."
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/rowland-conductor-phono-preamp-joseph-audio-perspective2-graphen...

Hard to know if that is due to any changes to the Perspectives.

I would expect, based on the specs at Seas, that the Pulsar two would demand a new crossover, and may loose 1-2 dB of sensitivity.


However, that doesn't necessarily change the tonal balance, that's something the designer could keep more or less consistent. 

Shame I haven't heard these speakers in a very long time, but they were some of the few at shows I liked, and seem to remember liking them more than the plasma tweeter speakers too.

I own a pair of Joseph Audio Perspective2 Graphene speakers. I am breaking them in.   

Any initial impressions yet Mark, or too early still?

There are so many hyperbolic statements on this site that accurate praise is lost in the hyped marketing. Anyway, here goes.

This is is the best speaker I have owned and one of the best I have heard. It is a destination speaker. Compared to my original Perspectives, it has more and better defined bass. Kick drum sound realistic. It is simultaneously richer with better definition. Silky smooth midrange. Lyrics are clear, smooth and accurate. Same tweeter and cabinet.

Slightly more efficient. Excellent off-axis response anywhere in the room. They throw a wide sound stage, almost wall-to-wall, in part because they are locked into the room.

Thanks for that, Mark! Sounds exciting. I’m so glad your upgrade seems to be working out for you.And you are in a particularly rare position to comment. I doubt we'll see many others who have had the chance to live with both the original and the upgraded Perspectives.

Interesting about the Perspective 2s being slightly more efficient in your experience. Having looked at what Eric said, and some DIYers discussions about those new drivers, I was under the impression that efficiency should have gone down a bit (a db or two).

Erik?

I spend some time in the Joseph Audio room every year at Axpona and I am never disappointed.  This year he was playing the upgraded Perspective speakers and they sounded wonderful.  So musical.  I believe these are in the $15k range and compete very well with other speakers at or above that price point.

On a side note, Jeff is a very nice guy and fun to chat with during the show.

I listened to them at Axpona. Granted, the room was crowded and I had to stand in a less than ideal spot (right next to Jeff Joseph). I had no idea the drivers were so small-five inch or so? The sound was good but after five minutes I identified the general nature at play-highly detailed and precise-what I call "hi fi". They are beautiful and WAF friendly with a relatively small footprint and I can fully understand the praise, they are just not my cup of tea from what I heard in Schaumburg. Listening to these brought to mind some relative newbie on an audio forum who once asked "what speaker sounds like laser beams?". IMHO there are speakers that appeal to the head and those that appeal to the heart. I don't care for speakers that mimic headphones. I prefer headphones that mimic loudspeakers. 
If I may elaborate just a bit more, I believe that the Volti Audio Rival room was at the other end of the spectrum and also not in my sweet spot though I again recognize the appeal. This room was crowded both times I entered and the Volti Rivals being played had a prominent "Sold" sign on them. They were champions of texture and tone but were a bit plodding and slow, and just a shade dull. And though beautiful to look at, they were certainly not svelte or likely to meet approval by a non-audiophile spouse. 

@markalarsen ... Mark, did you get your original Perspectives upgraded or did you purchase new ones? Also, on a percentage basis, how much of an improvement was there over the original Perspectives? When it comes to audio equipment, I try to be cognizant of the law of diminishing returns. Thanks.

@erik_squires & @prof Erik’s prediction was mistaken. They are slightly more efficient, say 2dB.  They also sound better at lower volume. 

Compare @diminches vs. @fsonicsmith comments.  They may not be for everyone. I do not think increased resolution diminishes musicality. 4K TVs do not have worse or better color than 1080p TVs. Also, they are in my home with my electronics, not in crowded rooms with show conditions. Some people, not me, like electrostatics.  Martin Logans at shows sound either wonderful or horrible. I hate B&Ws at every show I have attended. 

@rib61 They are new. BTW, the original Perspectives were always and still are a great speaker.   I do not know about percentages. Let me say they are the cure for upgrade fever. They are everything I have been looking for in a speaker, without taking price into account. 

@erik_squires & @prof Erik’s prediction was mistaken. They are slightly more efficient, say 2dB. They also sound better at lower volume.

Awesome! Of course, this may be a custom driver, with different impedance and sensitivities than listed at Seas.

Same tweeter, but not quite as bright. Minor distinction. 

Different cross-over

fsonicsmith

I certainly would not argue with what you find movingly musical or not. I’ve sat next to people who loved the sound of a speaker where I was left uninvolved.
(In fact just today I listened to the big flagship Monitor Audio speakers and some Magicos and they just didn’t do it for me).

You know I love both the Devores (that you own) and the Joseph speakers. I get why a DeVore owner wouldn’t go for the JA sound - they are really different. And that’s what drove me nuts deciding between them: I like both but they are so different!

Unlike you I find myself completely trasnsfixed by the Perspectives. I’ve listened to them for up to 7 hours straight (auditioning at home) and never got enough of them. If I had found them to be strictly “audiophile speakers” for the head I wouldn’t be enthusiastic. But what won me over in initial store demos is how well they played absolutely every genre I could throw at them, from classical, to jazz, to van halen, to The Commodores, to electronica, whatever. They satisfied my audiophile side in terms of transparency and tonal accuracy, but had dynamics, juicy mids and rich punchy bass that made them a “fun” speaker as well.

They certainly weren’t perfect. Occasionally the bass could be a bit overblown, and they don’t have the same papery, filled out organic tone as the Devores, but I did find them a head AND heart speaker.

Prof;
Just one little tweak with a smile;
I don't love my Devores. I think they are sorely missing midrange magic and precise imaging. In my case, while they are quiet despite my high power amp (ARC Ref 150SE), I feel that they would be better suited to a lower power amp. At Axpona, the 0/96's were much more impressive than the 0/93's, but the O/96's were being powered by Wavac amplification and a Nagra preamp.  Priced Wavac gear? Even then, the O/96's have more low-end grunt and overall kick. They still didn't offer a sumptuous midrange even with Wavac/Nagra. 
I would say that I am content. The O/93's are a good match for my smallish room. Perhaps I would like JA Perspectives more. 

On 1080 versus 4K TVs, I specifically waited to move up to a high end TV ($6K) when the color greatly improved from 1080P LCDs to 4K LCDs (my Sony 940D).  Resolution improved where I can sit further away by a few feet but it was the superior color (and backlit panel) that secured the sale.  Plasma 1080Ps could have great color but the latest high quality 4K TVs (OLED and LCD) are amazingly good.  There's a pending improvement over HDR as well in the next TV generation, so color is the big difference, not the resolution.

My point is color and resolution are not mutually exclusive for TVs. Musicality and high definition are not mutually exclusive for speakers. 

fsonicsmith

That’s surprising. Especially the comment about missing midrange magic. I thought the midrange of both 0/96 and 0/93 had some magic. I heard them on Nagra SS amps and a tube amp I can’t remember.

I use Conrad Johnson Premier 12 tube monoblocks and they tend to give any speaker I own a good helping of midrange magic :)

As for the new JA speakers...

The impression I’m getting from the Stereophile show report comment and from markalarsen, is of a somewhat smoother, mellower presentation from the Perspective 2s.

The original was super smooth in terms of having zero grain or etch, and I think that let them get away with having a generally rising response in the top end without it being obviously bright. But sometimes, yeah, they could bite. That was one of Stereophile’s gripes with the Perspectives.

I’m very curious how the new Perspectives would measure, if anything has changed about the trajectory of the upper frequencies.

As long as the new Perspectives don’t sound "dark" (because their tonality was so dialed in), I’d think a smoother high end with better low end grip would make them almost ideal.

I disagree with the Stereophile show report. The Perspective2s are smother, but nothing is “whited out.”  They use the same tweeter. They have higher resolution overall. 

Glad to hear markalarsen.  The "whitened" comment gave me pause. I don't like the idea of the tonality being messed with too much.

Nice little report on them here too:

https://audio-head.com/joseph-audio-announces-updates-to-his-pulsar-and-perspective-loudspeakers-axp...

I'm getting excited about one day...hopefully...owning a pair.

Jason said, "The sound may be a little whited out, but it is seductively smooth."
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/rowland-conductor-phono-preamp-joseph-audio-perspective2-graphen...

I have no idea what this means, but we do not seem to be hearing the same thing. The Perspective2 sound richer and deeper, one of the best I have heard. I view reviewers as giving me a lead. I make my decisions on what I hear.

BTW, I might like the O/96s more if the demoed them with better music. The selection of music at these shows often is horrible, unless Lars Christensen is in the room.  

Lars Kristensen 

To an extent I agree. I did not care for what the guy was playing in the room with O/96's but on the other hand, he spied that I had a record in my hand-that I had just purchased from Vincent Belanger-and asked if I wanted him to put it on. 
It's a two way street. If you don't like the music being played it is up to you to ask for something you like to be played. If you do and they say "no", than the criticism is fair. 
We all at this point know how the game is played. Some-but not all-vendors want to control the music so that the greatest possible number of people will stay in the room and so that their gear sounds good. No wonder Diana Krall and SRV are so popular-they do no tax the system. You won't hear large complex ensembles or classical music or even piano much because they lack the wide audience and they are more difficult to recreate. 
What surprises me is the lack of male voices being played. Richard Thompson's rich baritone would be a prime example. 
I don't mean to derail this JA Pulsar Graphene thread. 

+1 fsonicsmith When I walked into a AXPONA room and liked the sound of the setup, I would then ask if they would play me something I knew well. Every room I asked, honored my request. First, I would look through their LPs and then I asked for a digital version of the same recording, if it existed. Only one AXPONA room told me they didn't have that capability. I was in lots of rooms where the room attendant would ask a newcomer what they wanted to hear and lots of times the newcomer would say, "You pick." IMO this is a bad answer for the reasons @markalarsen points out above.   

I agree, but it depends on the size of the room, how crowded it is and how quickly you can move through the remaining must-hear rooms. When you play your music, I tend to linger in the room longer.

John Devore is a great guy who needs to get you through the door. 

Fwiw, the new lsa monitors are better then the joseph audio pulsars. They were exceptional at the chicago show. Truly a best buy.

Fwiw, the new lsa monitors are better then the joseph audio pulsars.

**pssst: In your opinion.

I haven't heard them so don't have an opinion.   But having heard much of the competition, I'm a tad skeptical.  People who like the JA speakers tend to be hooked by some particular aspects of their sound that are hard to find in other speakers.  Another speaker may be in someone's opinion "better" but it might not do what the Josephs do for some of us.That's what I found when I compared them to lots of other speakers.

(In fact, I'd take the Pulsars...or Perspectives...over many other highly lauded speakers.  I just listened to $40,000 Magicos and would take the JA speakers of them...just because they push my buttons in a way the Magicos don't).

Keep in mind that to many the sound they are “hearing” is entirely in their heads. No relationship, whatsoever, to the way some components actually sound. Beware of judgments like “push my buttons“ or “foot tapping” or even the holy word “musicality”. If people can only describe their “feeling” when they listen, there is zero value to their input.

I like the old LSAs with the Raal ribbon tweeters.  I prefer the original Pulsars. One of the best systems I have ever heard was Magico S7s with Soolution amps driving them. Of course, it was a $200K+ system.