@atdavid
See here is the thing, when my battery is starting to run down in my
BT headset, I know .... the sound starts to change. The bits are the
same, but the sound coming out, you know that antiquated analog stuff
.... ya, that starts to fall apart. I guess I should assume it was one
of those "digital" experts that designed the analog section. Exactly !!!!!!! it is the analog audio that is breaking up. NOT THE DIGITAL stream On every set of BT headphones or earphones that I own, when the battery gets low, I get a warning while it is still performing perfectly, then another while still performing perfectly and then it shuts down. At no stage does the digital input get interfered with or the audio 'degrade' . You need to modernize your equipment.
I am going to guess you are on the "young" side Actually no. I was lecturing on modulation techniques in digital communications in the '70s. I was part of the test group for Quadrature Amplitude Modulation utilizing Trellis Encoding in the early '80s And my IQ of 164 got me into the higest levels of military technology development Oh but I forgot........... I am ignorant @three_easy_payments
I couldn't agree more. Why won't you answer the question about routers
and switches possibly introducing EM/RF noise OUTSIDE of the signal path
just like any other piece of electrical powered gear??? The quality of
the signal is not the end-all in audio. I'm still patiently waiting.
You must try to understand that almost everything can introduce EM/RF noise. Every single device from the audio server, through every device my audio passes through on the internet and then my exchange to my router to my DAC can. Dozens and possibly hundreds of devices. But none of those sites think it
necessary
to use a magic cable or a magic switch. You really, really ought to attend a course on digital audio, or research it yourself ------- As nobody in here will giive a yes/no answer regarding my original question I will just go with the experts' advice And why does this forum allow so many of you trolls? You are just preventing me from finding a sensible answer |
Yes, your ignorance is frustrating. One of the hardest electrical engineering positions to recruit for is analog design, because unfortunately too many new engineering graduates are totally caught up in a perfect digital world and have no idea how the real world operates. They throw micro-controllers and processors down on a schematic and PCB, or heaven-forbid, a DC-DC with a multi-tap transformer, heck they probably followed the application note faithfully, but then are flummoxed when their creation does not work the way they expect it to. Being a good analog engineer is harder and less forgiving than digital I am going to guess you are on the "young" side. By your post, you would think you invented digital. Sorry to tell you, but while it is "new" to you and seemingly perfect, real engineers have been working with "digital" for decades and know there is a big difference between transmitting bits, and recreating a high resolution analog signal. See here is the thing, when my battery is starting to run down in my BT headset, I know .... the sound starts to change. The bits are the same, but the sound coming out, you know that antiquated analog stuff .... ya, that starts to fall apart. I guess I should assume it was one of those "digital" experts that designed the analog section. jason_k201713 posts11-04-2019 1:43pmThis is so very frustrating. I came on hear to ask a simple question about a digital switch and all I get is people trying to show off their extensive but completely irrelevant knowledge of old technology hurling abuse at me to cover their total inability to answer a simple question
I have moved on from analog. All of my source is digital. None of the stuff that several on here are trying to impress me with from their presumably vast experience in analog can change the stream of ones and zeros into a different stream of ones and zeros. No crackles, rumbles, glitches, interference from non-magic cables and power supplies. Nothing, zilch.
I am sorry if the digital revolution has made a lot of your knowledge totally redundant but that is progress. |
@jason
This is so very frustrating.
I couldn't agree more. Why won't you answer the question about routers and switches possibly introducing EM/RF noise OUTSIDE of the signal path just like any other piece of electrical powered gear??? The quality of the signal is not the end-all in audio. I'm still patiently waiting. |
@jason_k2017 Jason, in the spirit of transparency and sharing, I'm of the belief that if I ask someone for their system information I should be ready to share mine. Here it is: https://audio-system-details.blogspot.com/ |
@almarg and @atdavid Thank you for your detailed EE based and focused posts and measured responses. They are not only helpful but also supportive of the spirit of the forum. Your efforts and time are appreciated. |
Jason, the members that responded to you were in fact providing useful and helpful information. You can choose not to accept that information, which is totally cool...your call...but it isn’t cool to say they are not being helpful.
At this point I’m not sure if I should interpret your posts as those of someone with an agenda or worse???
Feel free to post the feedback and responses you have received from your consultant and friend. Perhaps their perspective and take on these matters will be educational and helpful to others.
It will also be helpful to know which DAC you are using and your system chain.
I’m open to learning. Thank you.
|
This is so very frustrating. I came on hear to ask a simple question about
a digital switch and all I get is people trying to show off their
extensive but completely irrelevant knowledge of old technology
hurling abuse at me to cover their total inability to answer a simple
question I have moved on from
analog. All of my source is digital. None of the stuff that several
on here are trying to impress me with from their presumably vast
experience in analog can change the stream of ones and zeros into a
different stream of ones and zeros. No crackles, rumbles, glitches,
interference from non-magic cables and power supplies. Nothing,
zilch.
I am sorry if the
digital revolution has made a lot of your knowledge totally redundant
but that is progress. Can you really not
see how laughable it is to think that a power cord in a switch can
affect a digital file or stream? Put on your
Bluetooth earphones and walk away from the source. Sound degradation?
No. It will eventually cut out. It is there or not there. Loosen
your HDMI cable on your TV. Video degradation? No. It cuts out. It
is there or not there. Copy a few thousand photographs across the
network. Blurry? No. They are digital. Welcome to the digital
world. Call a friend in China on your cellphone. crackles and pops
and white noise ? No. Clear speech. It is digital. Stream a music
file through your network to a DAC. Degradation? No. Improvement? No.
It is DIGITAL get it? I really do thank
you all for your input and in the unlikely event of me reverting to
analog I will certainly ask your advice but on my question regarding
a digital switch I will wait for replies from those more experienced
in digital.
(actually I have my
replies from my A/V consultant and my friend with the video
production and distribution company. They live and breath digital
audio/video so I will take their advice. So no switch for me. They
are very clear on the subject and you really, really would not like
their replies) Please no more
replies regarding analog problems (although I am ready for more of
'you don't understand' and the 'Your post illustrates a gross
ignorance' and 'I have years of experience in yarda yarda' )
Once again, hurling
abuse at those who question your perceptions will not make them
reality…ooooh but here it comes again!
|
@jnorris2005 Despite my attempts to educate people that if RF/EM noise introduction at the switch will really affect the audio signal,
I don't for a second think that RF/EM affects the audio signal! In fact I went to great lengths to say I don't believe it does at all. What I'm saying is that the electrical powered gear - routers, amps, switches, etc can all introduce RF/EM noise into your chain whether it's riding the physical line (not the 1's and 0's) or just being in close proximity to other equipment. Just admit it, power supplies etc associated with switches and routers can introduce RF/EM noise to your set up. |
WOW!!! I finally got through reading all of the posts on the thread. I was avoiding tax filing work I need to tend to today. For once, I think I can honestly say I'd rather be doing my taxes. 😊 |
The only thing you are illustrating is your own lack of knowledge. I have developed quite a few products with Ethernet interfaces. Never once have I used a "network card". There are approximately 40-50 companies that make ICs with Ethernet interfaces. Easily that many that makes RJ45 jacks, ethernet transformers, etc., likely many that you have never hard of. Your post illustrates a gross ignorance w.r.t. circuit design, whether digital or analog. That makes it pretty easy to pretty much ignore your posts as they are written from a position of ignorance, not education nor experience. The rest of your post(s), just repeatedly illustrate you understand very little about what is being posted in this thread.
jnorris200576 posts11-04-2019 11:26am it communicates directly to the network card in the DAC and it’s buffers, where the signal is extracted from the ethernet packet and stored until the DAC requests it. These network cards are manufactured by a handful of chip companies and I guarantee that NONE of them are giving any attention to audio.
|
Despite my attempts to educate people that if RF/EM noise introduction at the switch will really affect the audio signal, then after passing through hundreds or even thousands of interim switches and routers how do we even have a recognizable audio signal.
Another forgotten fact is that the switch does not communicate directly with the DAC, it communicates directly to the network card in the DAC and it's buffers, where the signal is extracted from the ethernet packet and stored until the DAC requests it. These network cards are manufactured by a handful of chip companies and I guarantee that NONE of them are giving any attention to audio. There is so much misinformation being thrown about here that it is disheartening that it's even being given serious consideration. |
@jason - very cute, answering my question with a question. Since you choose not to answer my question I will answer for you. Of course a switch that doesn't introduce RF/EM noise to a line can sound better than one that does. You know this as well as I do. Every component in your chain that runs on electricity has the potential to add noise - it doesn't matter if the gear is transmitting analog or digital signals.
Do you deny this? And please, don't respond with another question. A yes or no is requested. |
and ’ for the umpteenth time’ almarg
Can a digital switch, as the manufacturers and ’reviewers’ say it can, improve audio and video streams passing through it. ?
If you don’t know just say so It depends on what is meant by "improve." It will not improve (or change) the data that is being conveyed. It may affect the manner and the degree to which the characteristics of the signal affect downstream circuitry. And consequently it may improve the overall performance of the system and the sonics heard by the listener. If that distinction is too complex for some to understand I don't know what else to say. Regards, -- Al |
@jason_k2017
and ’ for the umpteenth time’....why don’t you pick up a switch and try it on your system? My gosh, even if we say adding a switch made an audible difference, does that guarantees you will hear the same improvements @grannyring and others have heard in their system.
Why this is so difficult for you to understand everyone’s system and hearing capabilities are not the same. You may hear improvements or you may not. At least by trying you will put this to rest. |
@three_easy_paymentsing
Just because the sound is better after inserting a new switch does not
mean the switch affected the encoded audio. Couldn't improvements be
due solely to a reduction of RF/EM noise in the chain? So you are saying 'yes, a switch can improve the audio and video being passed through it? or no it can't. It really can not be both Still a simple question. Again, if you don't know. just say so |
and ' for the umpteenth time' almarg
Can a digital switch, as the manufacturers and 'reviewers' say it can, improve audio and video streams passing through it. ?
If you don't know just say so
|
@jason
how a switch working at level 2 or 3 can affect the encoded audio
Just because the sound is better after inserting a new switch does not mean the switch affected the encoded audio. Couldn't improvements be due solely to a reduction of RF/EM noise in the chain? All I want is a yes or no. |
This is why I asked my original question, because I could not see how a switch working at level 2 or 3 can affect the encoded audio (or video, they also claim !) in level 7. Are you saying that they can or they can’t. It can NOT be both, and bear in mind that you keep repeating that the digital signal is not degraded by a switch
As I just said in my previous post I have never used the word "degraded" in this thread, except to say that I have not used it and that its use can be misleading. And for the umpteenth time the encoded audio is not affected in the sense of being received inaccurately. The subsequent D/A conversion circuitry and/or analog circuitry is what may be affected by differences in the characteristics of the Ethernet signal. Every single manufacturer and supplier of these special ‘audiophile’ switches and every single ‘reviewer’ claims that these switches will "improve" the digital audio being passed through them. In my previous post I suggested that you re-read my (and Atdavid’s) posts in this thread, beginning with the first of my posts dated 10-29-2019. In the very first paragraph of that post I said as follows: As someone having extensive experience in digital (and analog) design, although not for audio, it is very conceivable to me that a network switch can make a difference sonically. Not because it affects the accuracy with which 1s and 0s are received; not because it affects the timing with which those bits are received; ***and probably not because of most of the reasons that are likely to be offered in the marketing literature of makers of audiophile-oriented switches.*** [Emphasis added].
Regards, -- Al |
Ok , lets forget, for the moment, analog v digital,cables, harmonics, power supplies etc etc Every single manufacturer and supplier of these special ‘audiophile’
switches and every single ‘reviewer’ claims that these switches
will "improve" the digital audio being passed through them. Every single one This is why I asked
my original question, because I could not see how a switch working at level 2 or 3 can affect the encoded audio (or video, they also claim !) in level 7. Are you saying that
they can or they can’t. It can NOT be both, and bear in mind that you keep repeating that the digital signal is not degraded by a switch
All I want is a ‘yes, they
can’ or a ‘no, they can’t’ please. No
dissertations on analog theory please
|
Why, if the digital signal is not being degraded and is therefore reaching its destination intact (which is all that matters), do I need a ’special’ switch I believe the word "degraded" is being used in different senses by different people in this discussion. I have not used that word at all in my posts because it can be ambiguous and misleading in the context of digital signal transmission. In a properly functioning Ethernet link all of the data (the 1s and 0s) will be received accurately. Yet at the same time various characteristics of the digital waveform will vary to some extent, depending on whether a switch is immediately upstream of the receiving component, and on the particular switch if one is present. I mentioned some of those characteristics in my first post in this thread, on 10-29-2019, and Atdavid elaborated further on my comments and added to them. Those characteristics may affect D/A conversion circuitry and/or analog circuitry in the component receiving that waveform that is downstream of the Ethernet interface in the component receiving that waveform. I can only suggest that you take the time to re-read all of my posts in this thread and the posts by Atdavid. After doing so, if what we have said still isn’t clear I don’t know how to say it any more clearly. Also, regarding... Why, ... do I need a ’special’ switch? Please note that I haven’t said that you or anyone else necessarily needs a "special switch." In fact my initial post in this thread referred to another thread in which two members reported significant sonic benefits to have resulted from insertion of a switch costing less than $20 into the signal path, in their very high quality systems. My point has simply been that sonic differences that have been reported by long-time highly respected members to have resulted from insertion of a switch or between different switches are technically plausible and explainable, in my opinion as an experienced designer of high speed analog, digital, and D/A converter circuits (not for audio). Regards, -- Al |
Why, if the digital signal is not being degraded and is therefore reaching its destination intact (which is all that matters), do I need a 'special' switch?
@jason
I don't think a special switch is needed unless the hardware is adding noise to the chain via RF/EM interference. One way to address this noise, if being introduced via the switch hardware, "could" be using a different switch that doesn't introduce this noise on the line. I personally do not subscribe to any theory about digital signal getting degraded but I know as a fact that electrical gear can be sources of noise in an audio system. Do you deny this???? I strongly disagree with your assertion that a digital signal reaching its destination intact is all that matters. Introducing new electrical noise along the path also matters! Why are you choosing to ignore this? It's because you're cherry picking your argument. Very few disagree with your assertion on the bits arriving intact! Yes - we get that.
|
Still nobody is answering me
Why, if the digital signal is not being degraded and is therefore reaching its destination intact (which is all that matters), do I need a 'special' switch
|
@jason_k2017
This isn't about degrading a digital signal, it's about electrical noise riding on the line. What do you think shields ethernet cable? It's wrapped in foil or braided wires - yes, conductors of electricity. So if electrical noise does not degrade the digital signal, why do I need this special switch? |
I don't understand why people think it's technically impossible for a switch to introduce noise in the component chain. Switches are powered by electricity and contain fans, chips, printed circuit boards and power supplies. This isn't an argument about bits are bit and 0's and 1's or buffering or any of the well understood ethernet data transfer protocols - its about noise. Why is this so difficult? |
No, only a one or two people who do not understand digital data
transmission have suggested degradation of the digital signal. That vast
majority of the posts have spoke to electrical noise being the most
likely culprit.
So if electrical noise does not degrade the digital signal, why do I need this special switch? |
No, only a one or two people who do not understand digital data transmission have suggested degradation of the digital signal. That vast majority of the posts have spoke to electrical noise being the most likely culprit.
I have also posited, because it is real and it happens, that data frame arrival, because it is periodic (and pseudo random) can also cause pumping of the power supply lines in the end equipment as the power supply load increases and decreases. That will be in the frequency range of audio and whether audible will be implementation dependent. |
@atdavid
With few exceptions in this thread, and we can discount them, has anyone suggested that the signal or data degrades. This has thrown me Yes, many of you have. It is the whole point of this thread and my original question Several people have states that a 'special' switch will prevent it from doing so. Or are you now saying that a special switch is totally unnecessary as the signal or data does not degrade ? Please make up your mind |
Actually 24 frames per second was a compromise, not perfect, but good enough in the early days when film was expensive. As "film" dies, and costs decrease, we will move towards higher frame rates to improve perception of motion. You know that "film" was flashed 3 times per second, which again was not ideal but an acceptable compromise. Being able to see differences between 1080P and 4K is more a factor of corrected vision and screen distance, not age, at least to a somewhat advanced age unless there is specific macular degeneration. Knowing everything about CODECs, digitizations and the limits of human hearing will not tell you anything about a specific DAC implementation and its susceptibility to EMI.
jason_k20176 posts11-04-2019 12:56am@nonoise
@jason_k2017, are you suggesting that what you're hearing is exactly as it was encoded? That your DAC is perfect?
The
one thing I do know is that if you decode an encoded stream in a
quality DAC
with the the same codec
with which it was encoded then it will be as near to perfect as anything
else I can throw at my sound system. My turntable (which is no longer
used) is not perfect, my CD player is not perfect, my DB receiver is not
perfect. Nor are yours. None are
You should read up a little on
codecs, digitzation and the capablilities and limitations of the human
ear. There is a point at which nobody can detect an changes to audio. If
you can't grasp that, think of your eyes instead and why film only
needs only to be at 24 frames per second and why you have to be
reasonably young to see any difference between 1080 and 4K TV
|
You appear to be attempting to communicate a level of technical astuteness with your post, but you appear to have missed the point completely. Almost no one in this thread is questioning the digital communication of bits perfectly ... minus the standard data errors that do occur, albeit almost never with the confines of the last data transfer. With few exceptions in this thread, and we can discount them, has anyone suggested that the signal or data degrades. That you are using that argument suggests you have not read this thread or do not understand the contents of this thread. What has been communicated, specifically by Almarg, is that the Ethernet connection, while transformer isolated, is still an entry point for EMI, both magnetically and capacitively.
jnorris200575 posts11-04-2019 12:01am
The fact is that this signal has
passed through hundreds of routers, repeaters, data centers, and
switches prior to arriving at your router. Are we to understand that
all those networking devices have had no effect on the signal, thus
allowing that signal to arrive at your digital doorstep in pristine
condition? Are we to further understand that the only place
deterioration of the signal can occur is within the final switch and
hence that switch needs to be a magical audiophile switch.
Your
whole argument sounds like the same pseudo-scientific verbiage used to
describe other incredibly overpriced nonsense products that plague
hi-end audio.
|
+1, @nonoise.
I see that @jnorris2005 still trying to convince us with the same old analogy of signal passing through hundreds of routers, repeaters, data centers...blah blah.
It’s the same signal / data sent to each subscriber yet our experiences differs, why....because how we choose to decode that incoming signal in the comfort of our homes. What these naysayers failed to understand is this, the same identical signal or data stream sent to his or my home results in different aural experience based on our choice of electronics. In jnorris whimsical world a $5K streamer/DAC shouldn’t sound any different than $40 Google Chromecast streaming device because we are dealing with a same digital signal, basically 1’s and 0’s.
In a digital chain everything matters.
Let’s take the 4K analogy, why does X brand of TV able to display the identical 4K stream better than Y brand of TV. It’s all in implementation and how we choose to decode that incoming audio or video signal. |
@jason_k2017,
I can grasp lots of things, thank you, I do so by keeping an open mind.
Even at my ripe old age of 65 my eyes can still see the difference between 1080 and 4K TV on a decent set up (that was one bad analogy, by the way).
All the best,
Nonoise |
@nonoise
@jason_k2017, are you suggesting that what you're hearing is exactly as it was encoded? That your DAC is perfect?
The one thing I do know is that if you decode an encoded stream in a quality DAC
with the the same codec
with which it was encoded then it will be as near to perfect as anything else I can throw at my sound system. My turntable (which is no longer used) is not perfect, my CD player is not perfect, my DB receiver is not perfect. Nor are yours. None are You should read up a little on codecs, digitzation and the capablilities and limitations of the human ear. There is a point at which nobody can detect an changes to audio. If you can't grasp that, think of your eyes instead and why film only needs only to be at 24 frames per second and why you have to be reasonably young to see any difference between 1080 and 4K TV |
@jnorris20025, Almarg is the last person here who you'd want to accuse of spewing techno-babble.
@jason_k2017, are you suggesting that what you're hearing is exactly as it was encoded? That your DAC is perfect?
All the best,
Nonoise
|
@almarg I have said this before but you choose to ignore common sense and continue to spew techo-babble.
Your arguments assume that the ethernet signal as received by your audiophile switch is perfect and that your audiophile switch will transmit the signal to your DAC perfectly, counteracting (your words)...
"
interactions involving ostensibly unrelated signals and circuitry, including interactions involving circuitry that is downstream of the Ethernet interface in the DAC or other receiving component. Interactions that are dependent on the spectral composition of the signal waveforms on the Ethernet link, which in turn can be presumed to vary significantly as a function of the characteristics of the particular switch and its power supply".
The fact is that this signal has passed through hundreds of routers, repeaters, data centers, and switches prior to arriving at your router. Are we to understand that all those networking devices have had no effect on the signal, thus allowing that signal to arrive at your digital doorstep in pristine condition? Are we to further understand that the only place deterioration of the signal can occur is within the final switch and hence that switch needs to be a magical audiophile switch.
Your whole argument sounds like the same pseudo-scientific verbiage used to describe other incredibly overpriced nonsense products that plague hi-end audio. |
@nonoise are you suggesting that I can improve on hearing a piece of music that sounds exactly as it sounded when it was encoded? And I can acheive that with a switch? Or are you suggesting that my DAC does not decode properly? @almarg
interactions involving circuitry that is downstream of the Ethernet interface in the DAC or other receiving component.
Interactions that are dependent on the spectral composition of the
signal waveforms on the Ethernet link, which in turn can be presumed to
vary significantly as a function of the characteristics of the
particular switch and its power supply I would have thought that in such an expensive piece of equipment the audio analog output would have been isolated from the ethernet digital input I really don't understand this stuff. But I guess my answer is switches should be avoided if possible |
jason_k2017 11-3-2019
Why would I install something which will change the audio that the studio took so much care to create, and my DAC has taken so much care to faithfully reproduce? It just doesn’t make any sense to me. Have I misunderstood what the switch manufacturers, and some of the posters on here, have stated a switch will do to my digital audio? I though a switch was a device that simply connected point a to point b. Understandably you may not have read all of the posts in this lengthy thread. Please see the various posts in the thread by me and by Atdavid, which have offered technically-based explanations consistent with the many experience-based anecdotal reports that have been provided in recent years by highly experienced and very highly respected long-time members (such as David_Ten, Grannyring, and the two members I referred to in my initial post in this thread, among others), to the effect that network switches can significantly affect sonics. Begin with the first of my posts in this thread dated 10-29-2019. As you’ll see, the reasons have nothing whatsoever to do with "changing the audio," and have nothing whatsoever to do with improving the accuracy with which bits are conveyed to the DAC (assuming the Ethernet link is functioning properly). They have everything to do with interactions involving ostensibly unrelated signals and circuitry, including interactions involving circuitry that is downstream of the Ethernet interface in the DAC or other receiving component. Interactions that are dependent on the spectral composition of the signal waveforms on the Ethernet link, which in turn can be presumed to vary significantly as a function of the characteristics of the particular switch and its power supply Putting it all very simply, real-world circuits and systems do not necessarily behave in accordance with idealized conceptions of how they should behave. I’ll add that while various "naysayers" who have posted in the thread have either completely ignored those explanations or have dismissed them as being "silly" and/or ignorant I feel safe in presuming that those members do not have extensive background performing detailed design of high speed electronic circuits comprising a mix of digital, analog, and D/A converter circuitry. If indeed they have any circuit design experience at all. Regards, -- Al |
Things can always be more faithfully reproduced. You won't see the endgame for most faithfully reproduced in our lifetimes.
All the best,
Nonoise |
David
I am just trying to understand how a DACs performance can be improved beyond an already faithful reproduction. |
Jason: please forgive me, for I cannot answer your questions. My use of your word faithful was in quotes.... : ) |
@david_ten
and forgive me, but if something is faithfully reproduced, it can not be 'more faithfully' reproduced
|
@david_ten
Thanks for the reply
But this doesnt realy answer my question
I currently have a high end DAC reproducing audio exactly as it was digitised. Why would I install a switch that the manufacturers say will change that?
|
@jason_k2017 even the very highest quality digital audio stream is a breeze. This isn’t (solely) about having good or great latency for your streaming purposes. Why would I install something which will change the audio that the studio took so much care to create, and my DAC has taken so much care to faithfully reproduce? Consider a switch as being an ’equal’ / component-level... as you do your DAC. In my limited personal experience, the better the feed to the DAC the better the DAC’s performance. And, using your word, the more "faithful" the system's performance. |
@grannyring Bill, I went with Small Green Computer's internal bridge (i.e. within their server). They had offered it on my now older build. It is offered again on their most current i9 build but not on their i5 unit.
I prefer going through the internal (simple) bridge within the server versus using the switching capability of my Netgear Orbi Satellite. The differences aren't major but definitely noticeable and preferred.
I attribute the differences I hear as more likely due to the isolation of the server and the fact that it is powered off a dedicated LPS with a much, much better power cord.
The LPS to the Orbi Satellite is the same as the one to the server, however, it has dual DC outputs... both being utilized. As mentioned above, it is powered with a basic power cord. Due to the shape of the Orbi, I am unable to isolate it with the footers, etc. that I currently have.
I'm evaluating server choice. If I stay with Small Green Computer, I'll have them customize the build (including a higher quality internal bridge, if possible).
|
@david_ten, What bridge are you using? Built into your streamer or a separate purchase? Thanks! |
Hiya everybody
I am a music lover (not an audiophile) who has spent a reasonable amount of money to listen to music as close as possible as to having sat in the front row of where the music was recorded
A large part of my budget was spent on a high end DAC to give me 'as close to the original as possible' audio out. According to the manufacturer (I am no expert) a digital source along with a high end DAC will give two massive benefits. It will isolate the audio output from anything that would have been considered 'interference' and 'degradation' in the old analog world, and faithfully reproduces the audio from the digital stream. It does so and it sounds wonderful.
My wired and wireless network, configured and installed by an A/V consultant, is more than capable of handling everything thrown at it including several concurrent digital high definition video streams, so even the very highest quality digital audio stream is a breeze.
I was researching switches when I found your thread which has confused me.
Why would I install something which will change the audio that the studio took so much care to create, and my DAC has taken so much care to faithfully reproduce? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Have I misunderstood what the switch manufacturers, and some of the posters on here, have stated a switch will do to my digital audio? I though a switch was a device that simply connected point a to point b.
I have copied this post to the manufacturer of my DAC and to my A/V consultant to see if they can shed some light on this.
Thanks for reading
Jason
|
@atdavid Agreed on the ethernet cable but clearly routers and switches aren't always galvanically isolated. Ethernet is always galvanically isolated. The connection is through a transformer. |
oh, and try to route your ethernet cables away from all audio cables, especially power supply and interconnect cables.
|
I think that the quality of digital transmission is hard to improve upon. DAC receivers have also in the last few years become excellent at jitter and ground loop isolation. However, the noise emitted by the switch mode power adapters, as well as the Ethernet cables themselves can make its way easily into linear components. So, I suggest using shielded power cables for all components. A linear power supply for digital and inexpensive power strips that have great noise reduction features to keep the network components in their own dirty sandbox. My thoughts and recommendations here: https://inatinear.blogspot.com/2019/04/power-management-for-frugal-audiophiles.html |
|
Since it hasn’t been brought up, consider GROUNDING the switch with a RJ45 terminated grounding cable.
Additionally, vibrational / resonance control via footers (etc.) will help. Weights to help stabilize the unit (the consumer 8 Port units are lightweight), especially important if the LAN cables are hefty.
I bring this up because in many systems the switch seems to have the ultimate ugly duckling status. This was the case again (just last evening)...the switch was under the rack on the carpet. Out of sight but likely not out of earshot. : ) |
